2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

[sooner333]

Depends on how you value your time. Yes there are often dirt cheap fares out of DFW, but for me and my wife it's well worth it to spend an extra $100-200 to save 7 hours of driving and dealing with Dallas traffic. Plus who wants to drive 3-4 hours just to get home after a long flight - not I.

I agree with you on driving to Dallas to fly somewhere else. But if I’m actually going to Dallas, driving makes more sense to me. Living on the south side of the metro, the time saving is pretty minimal. Now if I needed to do work in the airport and on the plane, then it would be a different consideration.

[s00nr1]

WN can "damage control" all they want with the BNA add news, but I think we all know that extra flight won't last long considering there are far fewer connection options there compared to DAL. There is certainly not enough OKC-BNA O&D traffic to support that. I would much rather have seen them add additional flights to STL, MDW, or even SAN (west coast connections) over a daily BNA flight.

Traveling to SAT as much as I do, this just made a trip on WN significantly longer. Guess it will be AA from now on.

[HOT ROD]

It makes sense when you look at all the factors at play:

1) WN needs the available aircraft time. They have committed to an aggressive expansion campaign in Hawaii. OKC-DAL (round trip) occupies around 8 hours of aircraft block time per day. If you factor in turn times you’ll approach 10 hours of fleet utilization for the market. Most airlines have around 13-17 hours of daily utilization per airplane. So in a worst case scenario OKC-DAL requires 76% of an aircrafts available time, and in a best case scenario it requires 60%. Of course realistic routing doesn’t necessarily mean one airplane is doing DAL-OKC-DAL all day, but it’s still occupying the resources of “60-75% of one plane”.

2) DAL is gate restrained and operating at capacity. This move gives WN some breathing room and some space to use those gate times for other, more profitable flying.

3) Dallas is a powerhouse of an O&D Market now. They don’t need the low-yield connecting traffic from OKC to fill seats out of DAL. Is it better to sell OKC-DAL-LAX for $189 or DAL-LAX for $169? The connections dilute the strong O&D market. Southwest has to work harder to make less money.

If you combine all of those factors you’ll see it makes sense for them. If you have a route that is primarily connections, occupying aircraft time which you desperately need, and is occupying gates in one of your most constrained airports you’ll see why they came to the conclusion.

One other thing that wasn't mentioned but could be likely, is that 4) OKC has grown such that connecting flights are no longer "NECESSARY" for OKC to have service. Some markets can't support direct/non-stop city pairs but OKC can and perhaps we'll see more of that from WN. Think about it, OKC has WN nonstop to BWI and DCA.

And one final thing, 5) OKC-DAL is just too close for it to be profitable esp when most OKC pax are connecting. Might be more profitable to lighten DAL for other routes but dedicate more OKC city pairs. I don't see this as a cut by WN at all, overall it might result in OKC becoming a mini-focus city. ...

If the business O/D is that significant, they could add OKC-DAL back after the MAX issue gets resolved (not sure if they were impacted). But even then you'd just probably see flights during the rush hours - and likely most of those business O/D use corporate or charter anyway.

[CloudDeckMedia]

From Dale Denwalt’s story in this morning’s Oklahoman: “American Airlines is the only other carrier offering daily service between Oklahoma City and Dallas with nine daily flights.” (Emphasis mine)

If you’re flying anywhere - nationally or internationally - you’ll probably fly a legacy carrier, and have to connect in DFW, ORD or ATL. To me this cements AA OKC-DFW as my gateway to the world unless I can fly direct through another carrier.

[BG918]

Where I think this hurts is the lack of connecting service to other cities in Texas especially for the O&G industry like Midland, San Antonio and Corpus Christi you can fly to all of them on AA via DFW but now you just have that option, or you connect through Hobby on Southwest.

It will be interesting to see what Delta does with their focus City in Austin. Will it just be mainly flights to hubs and large business centers or will they do some regional flights to OKC, MAF, CRP, TUL, LIT, etc

[HangryHippo]

Where I think this hurts is the lack of connecting service to other cities in Texas especially for the O&G industry like Midland, San Antonio and Corpus Christi you can fly to all of them on AA via DFW but now you just have that option, or you connect through Hobby on Southwest.

It will be interesting to see what Delta does with their focus City in Austin. Will it just be mainly flights to hubs and large business centers or will they do some regional flights to OKC, MAF, CRP, TUL, LIT, etc

I was thinking Delta might give us flights to some of their focus cities such as Seattle or Boston or New York or even Austin, but we get jack from them.

[no1cub17]

One other thing that wasn't mentioned but could be likely, is that 4) OKC has grown such that connecting flights are no longer "NECESSARY" for OKC to have service. Some markets can't support direct/non-stop city pairs but OKC can and perhaps we'll see more of that from WN. Think about it, OKC has WN nonstop to BWI and DCA.

And one final thing, 5) OKC-DAL is just too close for it to be profitable esp when most OKC pax are connecting. Might be more profitable to lighten DAL for other routes but dedicate more OKC city pairs. I don't see this as a cut by WN at all, overall it might result in OKC becoming a mini-focus city. ...

If the business O/D is that significant, they could add OKC-DAL back after the MAX issue gets resolved (not sure if they were impacted). But even then you'd just probably see flights during the rush hours - and likely most of those business O/D use corporate or charter anyway.

I think those are great points. OKC-Dallas will always be dominated by AA just due to the massive size of DFW, which shows no signs of slowing down. Seriously, as much as I hate what US Airways management has done to AA, the worldwide connectivity out of DFW now is seriously impressive. I'm guessing WN looked at the OKC-originating pax that either went to or through DAL, and concluded that the connecting pax could easily be accomodated elsewhere, and the OKC-DAL O&D just wasn't enough.

WN relies a lot on brand loyalty - so those of you who use WN to connect to places in TX, I'm guessing you'll just switch to connecting through HOU and move on with life.

[no1cub17]

I was thinking Delta might give us flights to some of their focus cities such as Seattle or Boston or New York or even Austin, but we get jack from them.

It is quite disappointing how little DL has grown in OKC compared to WN/AA. But hey they're going to occupy the new gates so that's cool I guess.

[catch22]

Effective Dec Only AA OKC-LAX returns to 3 daily

Effective Jan-Mar UA suspends EWR-OKC.

[brianinok]

Effective Dec Only AA OKC-LAX returns to 3 daily

Is it at the expense of PHX? Going to PHX in Dec and had to book SW (unfortunately) because AA had only one flight a day and it was late afternoon.

[gopokes88]

I think those are great points. OKC-Dallas will always be dominated by AA just due to the massive size of DFW, which shows no signs of slowing down. Seriously, as much as I hate what US Airways management has done to AA, the worldwide connectivity out of DFW now is seriously impressive. I'm guessing WN looked at the OKC-originating pax that either went to or through DAL, and concluded that the connecting pax could easily be accomodated elsewhere, and the OKC-DAL O&D just wasn't enough.

WN relies a lot on brand loyalty - so those of you who use WN to connect to places in TX, I'm guessing you'll just switch to connecting through HOU and move on with life.

Maybe on that last sentence, I fly to Texas a lot (MAF and LBB) and connect through DAL a ton. 30 min flight to connect is way different than an hour.

AA will likely get a chunk of my business. SW just has a better rewards system, change policy and the companion pass.

[Paule4ou]

AA will likely get a chunk of my business. SW just has a better rewards system, change policy and the companion pass.

Agreed.....SW holds me hostage with the companion pass. Not a fan of AA's program at all (but the upgrades are nice).

[BG918]

Agreed.....SW holds me hostage with the companion pass. Not a fan of AA's program at all (but the upgrades are nice).

Companion pass is one of the best deals out there, and a good reason to stay loyal to Southwest.

[gopokes88]

Sucks for Tulsa but this is kinda Frontiers MO

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/...460a1a5fc.html

[BG918]

Sucks for Tulsa but this is kinda Frontiers MO

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/...460a1a5fc.html

Service restarts in the spring, likely before Spring Break to DEN and MCO.

There may be too much capacity currently on TUL-DEN as well with 5x/daily United and 3x/daily Southwest in addition to the 2x/weekly Frontier nonstop.

[gopokes88]

Another good month with good solid growth sans frontier

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/fil...nplanement.pdf

[LakeEffect]

Another good month with good solid growth sans frontier

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/fil...nplanement.pdf

Why are that many more people flying AA while their quality of service continues to deteriorate...?

[runOKC]

Why are that many more people flying AA while their quality of service continues to deteriorate...?

Shuttling down to DFW to connect is way too easy with how many daily flights they have down there, not to mention they have added capacity to PHX, daily's to PHL, etc. Sample size of one and all that, but in my personal experience they have competed well on price for many trips. They are normally not my first preference, but on convenience and price, they have been difficult to beat.

[gopokes88]

Why are that many more people flying AA while their quality of service continues to deteriorate...?

It’s bad. No argument there. Hopefully that changes, buttttttt my gosh the schedule is fantastic.

1. Having a billion Dallas connections everyday means I can get to Dallas with a 45 minute connection. I basically get off the plane walk to the next gate, 2 min wait, boarding the next plane.

2. Their network to hubs out of okc is becoming pretty extensive, and only getting better with a DAILY Miami flight on a E175.

Their commitment to okc, is starting to outweigh the bad service

[brianinok]

Why are that many more people flying AA while their quality of service continues to deteriorate...?

I haven't found AA's service to be lacking compared to what it used to be (my only comparisons are UA, SW, DL non-stops from OKC really, and they're all similar). And I have always found the AA folks in OKC to be very helpful and accommodating. With their growing network out of OKC they pretty much beat everyone else on convenience unless you are flying to a city one of the other airlines fly non-stop to. I have found them to be very competitive on pricing too. Frankly, if they really have a strategy to grow OKC they are doing a great job at.

Sidebar: I mentioned in this thread a few weeks back that I was disappointed AA did not have a morning flight to PHX in December so I had to book on Southwest. Well, I got a schedule change email from Southwest and they had moved our flight back over 3 hours. I looked and AA had added a morning flight. I called Southwest and they refunded my money (including early bird), and we rebooked on AA on the morning flight for about $20 more. Because I have the right CC we won't pay for a checked bag. This is exactly what I mean by competitive.

[no1cub17]

It’s bad. No argument there. Hopefully that changes, buttttttt my gosh the schedule is fantastic.

1. Having a billion Dallas connections everyday means I can get to Dallas with a 45 minute connection. I basically get off the plane walk to the next gate, 2 min wait, boarding the next plane.

2. Their network to hubs out of okc is becoming pretty extensive, and only getting better with a DAILY Miami flight on a E175.

Their commitment to okc, is starting to outweigh the bad service

This. I've seriously pondered status matching to Delta multiple times, but DL's schedule and connectivity just doesn't come close to AA. Multiple nonstops to LAX (our most frequent destination), plus multiple daily flights to Hawaii (on 777s too) plus their impressive worldwide connectivity out of DFW... despite AA basically turning into complete trash, we stay loyal. Schedule/network trumps all ... for now.

[LakeEffect]

This. I've seriously pondered status matching to Delta multiple times, but DL's schedule and connectivity just doesn't come close to AA. Multiple nonstops to LAX (our most frequent destination), plus multiple daily flights to Hawaii (on 777s too) plus their impressive worldwide connectivity out of DFW... despite AA basically turning into complete trash, we stay loyal. Schedule/network trumps all ... for now.

How often do you go to Hawaii?

[no1cub17]

How often do you go to Hawaii?

Pretty much every year at this point.

[amocore]

It seems Frontier Airlines stops the direct flight to Orlando MCO from OKC. I could not find it on their website.
I am not fond of them but nothing beat direct flights.

[Soonerinfiniti]

We really enjoyed the EWR-OKC non-stop recently. Any chance we will ever get a non-stop to Boston? Milwaukee?