Jim Crow In Oklahoma City

[Doug Loudenback]

As an outgrowth of the Deep Deuce Collection, I've done this article: Doug Dawgz Blog: Jim Crow In Oklahoma City and I invite you to have a look.

All history is certainly not nostalgic, and this is one such example.

[Doug Loudenback]

One somewhat off-topic but nonetheless interesting item I ran across in my research for this article was the discovery of what was probably Oklahoma City's 1st sit-in ... well, a park-in, I guess. The following is the Daily Oklahoman's September 7, 1907, story about it:

[PennyQuilts]

I'm speechless.

[ronronnie1]

Daily Oklahoman 1907 quote:

"...with crisp, brown chicken legs in one hand, and large slices of juicy watermelon in the other..."

Truely disgusting.

[papaOU]

Schools in South OKC

Jefferson Davis
Robert E. Lee
Stand Waitie
Jackson Jr. High

North OKC

Lincoln
Washington............................

[papaOU]

I don't mean to make excuses for it but racism is an extension of the time period. It is hard to look at or think in a real racist mindset. Most of us that is. 100 years ago blacks were subhuman. Just as the Jews were in Nazi Germany. I don't know where you live but if you are in the central part of the U.S. bigotry encompasses a different color.
From Oklahoma heading to Canada skin color begins to get lighter until in Canada the word ****** is moved aside and Indian takes it's place.

This small piece does not fully explain what I mean but I hope it offers some understanding as to where I am coming from..........

[Doug Loudenback]

Interesting observations about the north/south school names.

As to your other message, you lost me ... unless your point is that the mindset of a racial majority which is disposed to be bigoted will vary from region to region as to what other racial (or religious, since in your illustration of Nazis & Jews both groups would be regarded as white, even if not arian) group should be regarded as inferior to the majority group.

Aside from that, as far as I'm aware, the term Indian is not and hasn't been a pejorative term anywhere, unless I'm mistaken, which of course is not at all true with ****** which is a derisive term.

That said, I don't think that I understand what you are trying to say.

[NativeOkie]

Nice find Doug.
A study of the Dread Scott case will bring to to further light.
SCOTUS ruled incorrectly that Blacks were not human in the same sense we were.
Now case law came to play again in Roe v Wade we are not dealing with a human being.
Do a quick search and you will find Sanger rallying with the KKK.

Study Dread Scott in light of the progressive's of Late 19th and early 20th century. President Wilson divided blacks and whites in the military, FDR upheld this, it took Truman to end this "Jim Crow" practice.

[ronronnie1]

quote:
"...the term Indian is not and hasn't been a pejorative term anywhere..."

My aunt told me stories about how when she was growing up here in Oklahoma that the kids would taunt her calling her "Indian" because she was darker then them (Lebanese.) So yeah, Indian was used as a perjorative term in the 50's. Funny thing is now everyone and their dog is "half Cherokee."

[PennyQuilts]

Oh yes, I agree - Up north near Newkirk my best friend's grandparents would use that word as if somene were just nasty. I've heard it from others, too, but not much in years.

[SpectralMourning]

Good intentions Doug, but yeah, might consider research into Native American racism in the US and Oklahoma as a followup. As a descendant of Cherokee, an African slave, and twice-deposed Irish (I think I, along with most Oklahomans, shouldn't really be considered Anglo's, but mutts or pure Americans) I'm just past it. I try to consider people for their values and not their skin color, and when one does--black, white, or brown--I generally just dismiss them as jackasses.

Everyone, every culture has undergone some form of racism and, just the same, has projected it. We're animals; we make mistakes. Jim Crow sucked, NINA sucked, Indian Removal Act sucked, Panthers sucked, the misguided attacks on Mexicans suck. We just need to own up to it and get past it. No reparations for anyone. Just move on.

[papaOU]

Interesting observations about the north/south school names.

As to your other message, you lost me ... unless your point is that the mindset of a racial majority which is disposed to be bigoted will vary from region to region as to what other racial (or religious, since in your illustration of Nazis & Jews both groups would be regarded as white, even if not arian) group should be regarded as inferior to the majority group.

Aside from that, as far as I'm aware, the term Indian is not and hasn't been a pejorative term anywhere, unless I'm mistaken, which of course is not at all true with ****** which is a derisive term.

That said, I don't think that I understand what you are trying to say.

Sorry to say but the further north you do travel racism towards Indians surpasses the feelings for blacks.
I worked the dock for a trucking company and they did business with a Canadian company which came through twice a week. A driver used the word Indian and then apologized for being so vulgar.

Whereas you hear the word ****** for blacks here, as you head northward the term becomes prairie-******.

I do not intend to cause harm to anyone but using the word's as examples.

I have a 14 year old granddaughter who is biracial and I love her more than life itself!!!!

[Doug Loudenback]

quote:
"...the term Indian is not and hasn't been a pejorative term anywhere..."

My aunt told me stories about how when she was growing up here in Oklahoma that the kids would taunt her calling her "Indian" because she was darker then them (Lebanese.) So yeah, Indian was used as a perjorative term in the 50's. Funny thing is now everyone and their dog is "half Cherokee."

That's a good point and an interesting twist. The whites would see that being called "Indian" was a slam, even though Indians being called Indians wasn't. In that sense, the term Indian wasn't like the term ******.

But, I understand what you're saying. Through her father, my wife has Indian blood in her, and my wife is heavily involved in Native American interests, both professionally and personally. But, when my wife and her brother wanted to talk with him and learn about their "Indian side" when he was still alive -- he was a laborer who worked the Seminole and southern Kansas oil fields, probably others, in the 1920s-1940s -- he refused to even talk about his "Indian" side, something he clearly saw as something not to be proud of and, in fact, to hide.

[Doug Loudenback]

Good intentions Doug, but yeah, might consider research into Native American racism in the US and Oklahoma as a followup. As a descendant of Cherokee, an African slave, and twice-deposed Irish (I think I, along with most Oklahomans, shouldn't really be considered Anglo's, but mutts or pure Americans) I'm just past it. I try to consider people for their values and not their skin color, and when one does--black, white, or brown--I generally just dismiss them as jackasses.

Everyone, every culture has undergone some form of racism and, just the same, has projected it. We're animals; we make mistakes. Jim Crow sucked, NINA sucked, Indian Removal Act sucked, Panthers sucked, the misguided attacks on Mexicans suck. We just need to own up to it and get past it. No reparations for anyone. Just move on.

As you might see from my reply to ronronnie1, above, but, if not, I'm well aware of the injustices, and much worse, that were the plight of Native Americans. In my home, I am probably surrounded by around 3,000-5,000 books (I don't have a count, but they are EVERYWHERE) in my wife's library about Native American (north and south America) stuff, certainly including scores of books which focus on Oklahoma, and certainly including Angie Debo. I am neither ignorant nor unmindful of the Native American's history in Oklahoma.

But, this article's focus is on Jim Crow laws which did not involve Indians -- by constitutional definition adopted in 1907, Oklahoma had but two races for legal purposes: those of African descent of any degree who were classified as "coloreds," and those who didn't, who were classified as "white." The blacks, alone, received the special constitutional, legislative, and city ordinance treatment described in the Jim Crow article.

But, about "moving on," yes, I agree that we should. But moving on does not mean ignoring history and/or not being aware of it. Else the same mistakes of the past have a greater chance of repeating themselves in the future.

What this brings to my mind at present are my own personal feelings about our middle-eastern citizens as well as Mexican Americans who are the ones presently receiving special treatment from the Oklahoma Legislature.

As to those of middle-eastern descent, I acknowledge that it bothers me when I see women in the city wearing head-to-toe garments, even worse, veils. I am very aware, as everyone doubtless is, about the cause for this concern, probably fear and/or animosity. I do not say that it is easy for me to digest and/or apply our pre-current-era racial history with the current one, in this respect and context.

If we are to learn from past mistakes, I am of the opinion that history should not be ignored. It must be embraced and reconciled and digested. That's what I will continue to do.

[Doug Loudenback]

Thanks, papaOU, for your reply and expressions. I now understand better what you were saying.

[papaOU]

That's a good point and an interesting twist. The whites would see that being called "Indian" was a slam, even though Indians being called Indians wasn't. In that sense, the term Indian wasn't like the term ******.

But, I understand what you're saying. Through her father, my wife has Indian blood in her, and my wife is heavily involved in Native American interests, both professionally and personally. But, when my wife and her brother wanted to talk with him and learn about their "Indian side" when he was still alive -- he was a laborer who worked the Seminole and southern Kansas oil fields, probably others, in the 1920s-1940s -- he refused to even talk about his "Indian" side, something he clearly saw as something not to be proud of and, in fact, to hide.

The granddaughter I spoke of took a summer trip with some of her classmates to Washington, D.C. two summers ago. While discussing the itinerary a question was raised as to what time of day the children would most likely tolerate The Holocaust Museum.
Most anglo's don't want to hear or know nothing about that era in American history.
Without missing a beat I made the statement that I did not see the National Museum of the American Indian listed. Getting some blank stares I simply said, "OH! Wrong Holocaust".

[Doug Loudenback]

The granddaughter I spoke of took a summer trip with some of her classmates to Washington, D.C. two summers ago. While discussing the itinerary a question was raised as to what time of day the children would most likely tolerate The Holocaust Museum.
Most anglo's don't want to hear or know nothing about that era in American history.
Without missing a beat I made the statement that I did not see the National Museum of the American Indian listed. Getting some blank stares I simply said, "OH! Wrong Holocaust".

[PennyQuilts]

While discussing the itinerary a question was raised as to what time of day the children would most likely tolerate The Holocaust Museum.Most anglo's don't want to hear or know nothing about that era in American history.

What???? I never heard that or had anyone else suggest that. The Holocaust Museum has been very popular since they opened it.

[papaOU]

What???? I never heard that or had anyone else suggest that. The Holocaust Museum has been very popular since they opened it.

ECO go back to your "make out spots"

I am comparing the Jewish holocaust in Europe and that same holocaust that is still going on in the America's. The Holocaust of the American Indian. Probably a large number of non Indian's will claim it did not happen and is still not happening.

Sorry to get off subject Doug. Will not linger any longer. Thanks

[PennyQuilts]

ECO go back to your "make out spots"

I am comparing the Jewish holocaust in Europe and that same holocaust that is still going on in the America's. The Holocaust of the American Indian. Probably a large number of non Indian's will claim it did not happen and is still not happening.

Sorry to get off subject Doug. Will not linger any longer. Thanks

Sorry, I thought you meant the Jewish holocaust. That was what caught me by surprise.

[Doug Loudenback]

ECO go back to your "make out spots"
I am comparing the Jewish holocaust in Europe and that same holocaust that is still going on in the America's. The Holocaust of the American Indian. Probably a large number of non Indian's will claim it did not happen and is still not happening.
Sorry to get off subject Doug. Will not linger any longer. Thanks

Not a problem. A valid analogy.

[rondvu]

We can add a new twist to the blog and include gays and lesbians. They are a group of people that cannot marry and are bashed on a regular basis. Yes, even in the "Great State of OH-klahoma.

[Doug Loudenback]

We can add a new twist to the blog and include gays and lesbians. They are a group of people that cannot marry and are bashed on a regular basis. Yes, even in the "Great State of OH-klahoma.

It ain't easy bein' green.

[papaOU]

Here's a question dealing with The Deep Deuce and Jim Crow. I once read that one of okc's famous jogs as a result of survey mess-ups was allowed to remain in order to keep the peace between blacks ans whites.

It's the area that Broadway and such follows the railroad lines north but then moves west into the "car alley" (is that what it is called?).

If you are not aware of it I'll search my book collection for the chapter. I think it is in a book about law enforcement. Think it's the one centered around Bill Bishop.

[Doug Loudenback]

I'm not knowledgeable about that, papaOU. The only "jog" in my memory is the mismatch of surveys south and north of Grand (Sheridan) but I don't think that preservation of THAT jog had anything to do with race and that jog wasn't in the Deep Deuce area at all -- but, of course, this jog existed before Deep Deuce did.