The Great MAPS 3 Debate

[Golfer]

The flashpoint segment was one sided. Usually there are two people debating the issue at hand. However on this issue, Mayor Cornett and Past Mayor Humphreys were given mostly free reign to talk about their side of the issue. Wouldn't it have been more true to the name of the segment if there were representatives of both sides there to debate the issue. Why haven't we seen a debate of that kind? As for the NOT THIS MAPS campaign, I believe that the group wants all of the fine projects to be completed and the City of OKC to keep moving forward. The word "THIS" in their slogan insenuates that point. They have a problem with how the ballot is writton. Very vague on what the money will be spent on, approximate costs, and of course, no exlusive aid to the infrastructure or public safety. Before you say that the mayor has addressed that through the use tax offer to the unions, you need to understand that the offer was only for one year. Meaning that after that one year, there would be NO guaranty of ANY further assistance from the use tax. If this MAPS fails, I am positive that a more detailed ballot with more detailed accountability of the money would be presented and fully supported by the Unions.

Amen, especially the last sentence because that is what is going to happen. Remember that most of the no voters are actively campaigning and not blogging except for me because I am taking a break. Vote No, it will pass the second time around once the rich stop counting their money and start working on getting a better ballot and more support.

[Easy180]

Amen, especially the last sentence because that is what is going to happen. Remember that most of the no voters are actively campaigning and not blogging except for me because I am taking a break. Vote No, it will pass the second time around once the rich stop counting their money and start working on getting a better ballot and more support.

This will pass rather easily...The No voters were also out in force for the Ford center upgrade ..That was a much easier battle for the naysayers to argue against and it wasn't even close in the end...Fire and police are essential but most consumers will choose amenities over things that don't directly affect them

The park itself will make this vote pass 60-40

[iron76hd]

Iron, there have also been quite contrary statements made by union reps.

You can dig up whatever you want. If you want the true meaning of any comment all you have to do is ask one of them. I've told you what the issues are. These are not politicians. Their speeches aren't scripted. If you want to know what was meant by any speech just ask. I resent your insinuating that any statement was contrary to another one. Or they've changed their message because they said this.

Their message is easy. It's clear. They have no reason to lie or change their point of view. I'll tell you what is contrary. They Mayor's insinuating that all of this opposition is about raises it a flat out lie. I know he knows better, but that sounded like something good to say to incite citizens to believe that all Police and Fireman are self serving and have a "hidden" agenda.

[Doug Loudenback]

You can dig up whatever you want. If you want the true meaning of any comment all you have to do is ask one of them. I've told you what the issues are. These are not politicians. Their speeches aren't scripted. If you want to know what was meant by any speech just ask. I resent your insinuating that any statement was contrary to another one. Or they've changed their message because they said this.

Their message is easy. It's clear. They have no reason to lie or change their point of view. I'll tell you what is contrary. They Mayor's insinuating that all of this opposition is about raises it a flat out lie. I know he knows better, but that sounded like something good to say to incite citizens to believe that all Police and Fireman are self serving and have a "hidden" agenda.

Resent away.

Although you said, "I've told you what the issues are," you've presented no credentials that you have status to make the authoritative-type statements that you like to make and/or that we should accept what you have to say as being representative of either union's position. Now, if we actually knew that you were the super-secret president of the FOP or the Firefighters union, well, of course, that would be a different story. As it is, to me, your comments aren't the least bit authoritative of anyone other than, well, you.

[iron76hd]

Spare me the drama, iron.

It's not drama. Those are facts.

No one from the fire or police department said anything about staffing concerns until the MAPS 3 press release.

You say that as a matter of fact. I'm not sure if you are just typing to hear yourself type or what? This request has been going on for several years. Uhhh. That's why the Mayor and Manager asked for a study to be conducted. You must have missed the radio interviews, the press releases, or maybe both Police, Fire, and City Employee's leaders addressing the City Council in person.
Spare mepulse! Get a clue.

you've presented no credentials that you have status to make the authoritative-type statements that you like to make and/or that we should accept what you have to say as being representative of either union's position.

Are you for real? My statements are facts. Facts based on what I've lived and know about the current staffing problems in our Police Department and Fire Department. Who else would you believe? The Mayor? I have no reason to overstate any position or statistic. You apparently have no true care to find out any information about the staffing levels. You'd be so blind as to believe that if the City Manager and Mayor tell you everything is great then it's all good. You apparently have no expertise or factual information to make for either side. Do you? If so, please ...all ears..

[iron76hd]

Your expertise is gained from the cut and paste of one article after another. Your third or fourth person information is what you comment on or take as a matter of fact. What a joke..
Luckily for our city, those who have already been given the information of our staffing problems have listened with an open mind. Citizens so far have been very surprised and some disgusted. Unfortunately for you, many that vote don't live downtown only. They have true concerns about the staffing levels of "their" Police and Fire Department. You see they have no agenda, except what's right for their family. They don't have a loft downtown and many can't afford to eat at many of the restaurants downtown. They have no development issues and don't see the benefit of a park or trails. They care about the safety of their neighborhood. They live in very unstable neighborhoods and see the need for more Police Officers. The information that's being given to them can be "witnessed" by simply traveling to the local Fire or Police stations. The "Union peoples" claims of a shortage can be seen everyday. It's not cheap Political rhetoric. It's a matter of fact. They have a study approved by the same City Officials that dismiss the Manpower Shortage claims by the so called "Unions".

[Midtowner]

Your third or fourth person information is what you comment on or take as a matter of fact. What a joke..

It's a matter of fact. They have a study approved by the same City Officials that dismiss the Manpower Shortage claims by the so called "Unions".

Iron, what do you think a study is other than analysis of second-hand, third-hand, etc. information?

If you're going to question Mr. Loudenback's integrity, even among folks who support your cause, you're going to find yourself to be a lonely, lonely man in that pursuit. I'd advise reading through his blog before you so cavalierly cast aspersions in his direction. I think you'd change your tune.

-- or you can continue to flush your credibility down the toilet... either way's cool with me.

[Chance23]

Resent away.

Although you said, "I've told you what the issues are," you've presented no credentials that you have status to make the authoritative-type statements that you like to make and/or that we should accept what you have to say as being representative of either union's position. Now, if we actually knew that you were the super-secret president of the FOP or the Firefighters union, well, of course, that would be a different story. As it is, to me, your comments aren't the least bit authoritative of anyone other than, well, you.

That's something I doubt someone like him realizes. No one knows him from Adam. He's anonymous, thus "because I said so" holds no weight whatsoever, and never will. He could be a fast food worker who doesn't want to pay a tax and pretends to be an officer because people would listen to him more. He could be someone pissed off about the railyard not being included who tries to find some way to dig up support against it. All we know for sure about him is that he's a troll who insults anyone who disagrees, then doesn't like it when people don't take his word as gospel.

So yeah, thanks for posting sources instead of stamping your feet and saying "I said so!" like its some kind of excuse.

[Golfer]

This will pass rather easily...The No voters were also out in force for the Ford center upgrade ..That was a much easier battle for the naysayers to argue against and it wasn't even close in the end...Fire and police are essential but most consumers will choose amenities over things that don't directly affect them

The park itself will make this vote pass 60-40

Wait and see and remember who told you that it would not pass on the first shot, Last time fire and police passionatley opposed a tax issue, if failed.