Myriad Gardens

[Larry OKC]

Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

And of course that is the thought process behind Core to Shore and the various MAPS. If there is public investment, private investment will follow. You build a 70 acre park and residential will hopefully follow etc etc.

[metro]

is it me, or does the renderings for the MG make it look much more interactive than it is now? and if so, why did we need the new central park (at least to be interactive)?

Im beginning to think there is duplication of efforts; dont get me wrong - the renderings are fantastic. But it seems as if many of the elements shown in the renderings for Myriad Gardens are the same as what was shown in the Central Park renderings.

Will the Arts Festival eventually move down to the new central park? If not, what was the point of it other than to clean up the blighted area? What is the point of having two interactive parks (that don't connect) unless there is a master plan to urbanize/move downtown to surround Myriad Gardens, making it the intimate CBD retreat while the new Central Park (since it is bigger) would be used for civic events ala Arts Festival.

I really think this city needs a MASTER PLAN, to avoid duplication of efforts and create a seamless city with all of these big boulder projects we are seeing implemented. Anybody agree?

We have a Master Plan, it's part of the C2S concepts. The parks programming are completely different focus. As others stated, the Myriad Gardens will be more intimately focused, and hopefully eventually be what it was originally invisioned to be. Even you as an expat should know the park is HIGHLY UNDERUTILIZED and is has more vagrants than citizens on any given day. It will also host smaller events than Central Park. As others stated, Central Park will be THE City's park for people all over the metro to come to, unlike anything we've ever had. The majority of sports activities (soccer fields, baseball, frisbee, etc.), model boats, etc. will also take place here, as well as large outdoor concerts and festivals, we're talking like Garth Brooks in NYC central park type concerts can be held in our Central Park. There is much more information on this in various threads and websites on the C2S topic. Hopefully, to add to your point, as time goes on, Myriad Gardens will be a more intimate CBD park as development continues over the decades and Central Park will continue to be the flagship park of the city.

Hot Rod: You touched on it, as the MAPS 3 park will be bigger. It is a matter of scale of the events and was addressed during the MAPS 3 campaign (think it was at the paid luncheon where the head of the firm designing the Park was describing it and that question came up).

There is some duplication such as amphitheater etc but again, it is a smaller one than what is going in the MAPS 3 park. As the Festival of the Arts grows, it may need the additional space the MAPS 3 space will provide (and was intended to host it going by the Core to Shore report info). Then there is the matter of timing. Enough of the renovations should be done by next years FofA but the MAPS 3 park is at least a couple of years away (supposed to be open in conjunction with the Boulevard a couple of years after the relocated I-40 in 2012).

Understand about the Master Plan aspect and the Core to Shore kind of serves as that. The "problem" we ran into was with the opportunity and desire from Devon to renovate the MG. Even though some duplication was in the works, they didn't want to put the MG renovations on hold until MAPS 3 was decided...full steam ahead.

Part of it, but not much duplication, the focus and programming are different between the two, there will also hopefully be good mixed use development seperating the parks.

Hot Rod, I'm not really sure I understand fully your point. Are you saying that the Myriad Gardens would be better left as it is if we develop the Central Park as proposed or that there isn't sufficient demand for both parks? I see the Myriad Gardens, except for the Crystal Bridge, as an attraction mainly for those for either live or work in the CBD with occasional use by those outside the area. The Central Park is much more of a citywide attraction and park with a great potential for more when the proposed residential in that area is realized down the road. As for the Arts Festival, I think that could depend on how it evolves in future years. I think the more intimate setting in the Myriad Gardens area is best for now. It's possible it could outgrow that area at some point, however. It was originally in the Civic Center Park and outgrew that area.

Bingo. However Arts Festival plans to continue to stay at MG, but will have the room to expand now. In previous years they did not want to expand. The new spaces created will also allow to offer different types of things, such as a large concert or outdoor movie on the new great lawn.

[jbrown84]

is it me, or does the renderings for the MG make it look much more interactive than it is now? and if so, why did we need the new central park (at least to be interactive)?

Im beginning to think there is duplication of efforts; dont get me wrong - the renderings are fantastic. But it seems as if many of the elements shown in the renderings for Myriad Gardens are the same as what was shown in the Central Park renderings.

I've been thinking a lot lately how much is duplicated between the new Myriad Gardens and the new central park. Both have great lawns with band shells, both have formal gardens, both have children's areas, both have cafes, both have ice rinks. The latter seems the most gratuitous. There are so many different things we could have, I don't know why we are planning to duplicate so much. Why not more forested area? Why not a hedge maze (nevermind, I see that a small one is included) or a carousel?

I think both parks SHOULD be programmed/interactive, but not with the same elements.

[ljbab728]

I've been thinking a lot lately how much is duplicated between the new Myriad Gardens and the new central park. Both have great lawns with band shells, both have formal gardens, both have children's areas, both have cafes, both have ice rinks. The latter seems the most gratuitous. There are so many different things we could have, I don't know why we are planning to duplicate so much. Why not more forested area? Why not a hedge maze (nevermind, I see that a small one is included) or a carousel?

I think both parks SHOULD be programmed/interactive, but not with the same elements.

I seriously doubt that having two outdoor ice skating rinks will ever happen and I agree that isn't needed. Remember that the Central Park area isn't as far along in planning as the Myriad Gardens. Many elements can be and will be changed. I don't have any problem with the other elements though. A cafe or children's area is a good addition to any park. I think the two proposed concert band shell areas will be very different in scale and will appeal to different types of activities. There would be some kinds of concerts, plays, etc. that might seem lost in a large area such as we might have in the larger park.

[HOT ROD]

I sure do hope that the Central Park's plan isn't in "stone."

I like how in Chicago, you have Millennium Park and Grant Park right next to each other and both downtown. Millennium Park is highly interactive and programmed whereas Grant Park is 'parkland' and has the museums and public spaces.

While I agree that both OKC parks could be interactive, I think MG should be a true gardens - maybe even with a japanese garden in a portion of it; while the Central Park should be the one with the concerts, events, and community/family friendly amenities.

I know MG was OKC's first REAL central park, but now that it is being revisited - I really hope the city doesn't duplicate efforts because the effect might not be the one desired (if they have the same things; Im afraid one park - say MG, might be preferred by residents/visitors since it is closer to the CBD while Central Park is shunned).

[Larry OKC]

The MAPS 3 Park (by all indications during the campaign) is definitely NOT set in stone. Of all the things shown/described in the renderings the head of the firm designing the Park put out the HUGE disclaimer that everything they were about to see was "what could/might be" included.

Not sure if there would be all that much difference between the parks (yes one is closer to the CBD but just BARELY). It might be enough of a difference but I'm not seeing it. One distinct advantage for visitors to the MAPS 3 park is they will be driving right by it as they enter downtown from the relocated I-40. IF the convention center is built along side it, another draw for the MAPS 3 park. As far as local residents, you are supposedly going to have all the residential that rings the park (and many will use it as their back yard). If anything I see the MG as more for the business community (Devon esp) and the MAPS 3 park for residents/visitors.

One of the complaints about the Core to Shore/MAPS 3 string of parks, was that they ALMOST, but didn't connect with the MG. The reason they don't connect isn't because of the existing business, those are to be replaced with new "mixed use" (according to the Core to Shore materials). If the existing is being wiped away anyway, why not connect them?

[Larry OKC]

While I understand the duplication of efforts point, the same could have been said for having 2 arenas side by side. We built the new, bigger one, so get rid of the old one (Mayor Humphreys was an advocate for that). Again, it goes back to the scale of the events held in each. As wonderful as the Blazers were for the City, even at the height of their popularity, rarely did they need more than the capacity of the Myriad/Cox and certainly not the 20,000 seat Ford Center. They even installed the curtains up in Loud City so the seating capacity could be reduced and the appearance of an empty building side-stepped.

[metro]

I've been thinking a lot lately how much is duplicated between the new Myriad Gardens and the new central park. Both have great lawns with band shells, both have formal gardens, both have children's areas, both have cafes, both have ice rinks. The latter seems the most gratuitous. There are so many different things we could have, I don't know why we are planning to duplicate so much. Why not more forested area? Why not a hedge maze (nevermind, I see that a small one is included) or a carousel?

I think both parks SHOULD be programmed/interactive, but not with the same elements.

There is not much duplication as you think. There is not a ice skating rink planned in Central Park, just Myriad Gardens. The developers and committee spent countless hours doing research, focus groups, and programming. I was on several of the initial focus groups, etc. and I can guarantee you there is LOTS of thoughts and experts that went into this. The development group has done very prestigous parks for cities much larger than us, such as Atlanta, Houston, LA and Chicago.

I sure do hope that the Central Park's plan isn't in "stone."

I like how in Chicago, you have Millennium Park and Grant Park right next to each other and both downtown. Millennium Park is highly interactive and programmed whereas Grant Park is 'parkland' and has the museums and public spaces.

While I agree that both OKC parks could be interactive, I think MG should be a true gardens - maybe even with a japanese garden in a portion of it; while the Central Park should be the one with the concerts, events, and community/family friendly amenities.

I know MG was OKC's first REAL central park, but now that it is being revisited - I really hope the city doesn't duplicate efforts because the effect might not be the one desired (if they have the same things; Im afraid one park - say MG, might be preferred by residents/visitors since it is closer to the CBD while Central Park is shunned).

MG was never successful as a "gardens". While great idea in theory, it just isn't much of a draw for the general population. While they are going to keep some gardens area and hopefully make them better. A programmed park is what we need for it to reach it's potential other than being host to the Arts Festival 5 days a year and to bums the other 360. The parks are still different in focus and programming.

[Platemaker]

metro... the size of the botanical gardens area is actually being increased significantly.

[FritterGirl]

metro... the size of the botanical gardens area is actually being increased significantly.

?????

Are you talking about total area of the 17-acre outdoor grounds? If that's the case, that statement is incorrect.

However, if you are talking about the amount of land space within the 17 acres that will include more highly developed botanical areas, then yes you are correct.

[Platemaker]

I meant more of the land in garden will be devoted to botanical areas.

[FritterGirl]

I meant more of the land in garden will be devoted to botanical areas.

This is certainly true. Still, the only area that will remain a strictly botanicized area will be the NE quadrant where the Meinders Gardens are. They will remain largely in tact. While the Children's Garden, Grand Lawn and other areas will have botanical features and dense planting areas, in general, the space will still not be as dense as a true botanical gardens such as Botanica in Wichita, the Dallas Arboretum, Longwood Gardens in Philly or St. Louis Botanical Gardens, which are all botanical gardens in the strictest sense.

Keep in mind, as needs for the Central Park change, there is no reason why tweaks to the Gardens cannot be made at a later time, in order to stave off duplication, although I suspect some duplication will be welcome given the parks will be several blocks from one another and serve different groups to a certain extent. Still, much research and planning to be done to the C2S Park.

[Urban Pioneer]

The Office of James Burnett's website features some new renderings, which you can visit here. I am extremely impressed. Can't wait. Also, the site has details about the Devon Park if you're interested.

The fountain is quite beautiful. Everything about it is quite extraordinary and incredibly useful.

The labyrinth makes me laugh though. I am sure that there will be some people terrified to go near it at night. Imagine "The Shining" meets "The Out of Towners", Jack Lemmon and Sandy Dennis at night in Central Park, NY. lol One incident out there and the hedge trimmers are coming out! lol

[jbrown84]

There is not a ice skating rink planned in Central Park, just Myriad Gardens.

Wrong. The model that is on display next to the Pei Plan Model shows a plaza/seasonal ice rink.

The development group has done very prestigous parks for cities much larger than us, such as Atlanta, Houston, LA and Chicago.

i'm just not a fan of their work. The Office of James Burnett has done a far better job with the Myriad Gardens and I wish they would have been hired to do the central park as well.

MG was never successful as a "gardens". While great idea in theory, it just isn't much of a draw for the general population. While they are going to keep some gardens area and hopefully make them better. A programmed park is what we need for it to reach it's potential other than being host to the Arts Festival 5 days a year and to bums the other 360. The parks are still different in focus and programming.

You have been really exaggerating the "bum" factor lately. I've only ever seen a bum in the gardens a couple times, whereas on any typical nice day, especially on the weekends, the MG is filled with brides doing photo shoots, families walking around, etc. I agree that the park is underutilized at this point and that it never really was a "garden", but it's actually going to have a lot more in the way of formal gardens after this is done.



I agree that some things should be duplicated. There's certainly room for great lawns with stages as long as the central park version of that is a good deal larger as several of you have suggested. Cafe, childrens area, fountains. Both should have them. But two ice rinks?? I'd like to see major changes to the central park design. I'm just not digging it as is. The shape of the lake is so unnatural and too much of it is large planter areas that the MG already has. Central Park in NYC doesn't have that, except in a dedicated area--the Conservatory Garden. Why not include more lawn areas and more natural wooded areas?

[betts]

I think the berms in the Myriad Gardens made the whole place feel very closed in and, from the outside, unwelcoming. It was nice to see all the earth moving equipment there today. I'll be glad when it's bermless.

[metro]

Wrong. The model that is on display next to the Pei Plan Model shows a plaza/seasonal ice rink.



i'm just not a fan of their work. The Office of James Burnett has done a far better job with the Myriad Gardens and I wish they would have been hired to do the central park as well.



You have been really exaggerating the "bum" factor lately. I've only ever seen a bum in the gardens a couple times, whereas on any typical nice day, especially on the weekends, the MG is filled with brides doing photo shoots, families walking around, etc. I agree that the park is underutilized at this point and that it never really was a "garden", but it's actually going to have a lot more in the way of formal gardens after this is done.



I agree that some things should be duplicated. There's certainly room for great lawns with stages as long as the central park version of that is a good deal larger as several of you have suggested. Cafe, childrens area, fountains. Both should have them. But two ice rinks?? I'd like to see major changes to the central park design. I'm just not digging it as is. The shape of the lake is so unnatural and too much of it is large planter areas that the MG already has. Central Park in NYC doesn't have that, except in a dedicated area--the Conservatory Garden. Why not include more lawn areas and more natural wooded areas?

Not necessarily wrong, I've been priveledged enough to be behind the scenes on some of the committes jb. I don't think we'll see a duplicatation with ice rinks.

Bum factor, many people have expressed the same concern, I'll give you the fact that it has improved noticably over the last year, I think Devon and new downtown residents have some to do with that. Also the Arts Festival gives the impression that it is a park that is used more than in actuality. I agree James Burnett does great work. I think you'll see some changes in the final design. Here's a freebe for you, did you know that ODOT currently still has on their plans on the new I-40 an off ramp that dead ends into the new Central Park??? Now that's something to chew on, and/or start an uproar on. That far SE corner of the park is going to be compromised if nothing is changed, you watch.

[westsidesooner]

First off thanks for the great renferings Architect2010, they really help put things in perspective. One question.....Is that the new restaurant location on the east side of the park?

Also I would be very thankful if anyone could take some pics of the ongoing upgrades to the botanical tube and the other changes to the gardens. I keep meaning to get down there myself but due to a myriad of health restraints I've been stuck in the home for forever now and havent had the oppurtunity. Thanks again.

[FritterGirl]

First off thanks for the great renferings Architect2010, they really help put things in perspective. One question.....Is that the new restaurant location on the east side of the park?

Also I would be very thankful if anyone could take some pics of the ongoing upgrades to the botanical tube and the other changes to the gardens. I keep meaning to get down there myself but due to a myriad of health restraints I've been stuck in the home for forever now and havent had the oppurtunity. Thanks again.

The restaurant is proposed to go along the east side of the Gardens, where the current parking lot is now - about midway between north and south.

The cafe (a smaller structure) is slated to go just to the west side of the current activity plaza which overlooks the water stage.

We are working on a blog and will post soon!!! Right now it is very torn up - both inside and out. Definitely a hard hat zone!!

[westsidesooner]

Thanks Frittergirl for the quick response. I don't mind if it's all torn up at this point. You know theres nothing more exciting for a guy than heavy machinery and the smell of dirt and wood. I just hope to see a timeline of its transformation and so far havent been able to get down there. And I agree with what others have said the designs look awesome. I cant wait to see the finished product....it will be a jewel for downtown!!!

[David Pollard]

Does anyone know how many trees will need to be cut down for the renovations? Hopefully they will be able to replant some, although I wonderful if they would survive that. The renderings are beautiful, just hope that it doesn't take 20 years for new trees to grow to maturity.

[metro]

David, they plan to transplant most of the trees. Some will be lost of course.

[FritterGirl]

Does anyone know how many trees will need to be cut down for the renovations? Hopefully they will be able to replant some, although I wonderful if they would survive that. The renderings are beautiful, just hope that it doesn't take 20 years for new trees to grow to maturity.

David, please see the FAQ link herethat should answer some of your questions.

Right now, crews are working on basic demo and shaving down most of the berms.

Tree transplantation experts (yes they have those) out of Houston will be here next week to remove some of the larger specimen trees and "box" them before transplantation. They will be held in a secured location until they are ready to be replanted in the grounds.

We've got some more good news about trees but I can't share it with you until next Tuesday. (sorry).

[progressiveboy]

David, please see the FAQ link herethat should answer some of your questions.

Right now, crews are working on basic demo and shaving down most of the burms.

Tree transplantation experts (yes they have those) out of Houston will be here next week to remove some of the larger specimen trees and "box" them before transplantation. They will be held in a secured location until they are ready to be replanted in the grounds.

We've got some more good news about trees but I can't share it with you until next Tuesday. (sorry).

It would be nice if they planted more live oaks and magnolias.

[David Pollard]

Thanks for all the information! Glad to hear that the transformation is well thought out and sensitive to the overall environment of the immediate area... unlike the Sandridge plans! Sorry, I couldn't resist. Don't want to distract from the thread.

[metro]

David, any plans to visit Oklahoma anytime soon from across the pond?