Deercrest Marketplace

[Pete]

Panda Express has filed building permits to build as shown below.

The tract immediately north and between Panda and Taco Bell is owned by Walmart and it looks like they plan to put a gas station there.

[ManAboutTown]

I love me some Panda Express. Fresh, tasty and not expensive.

[shavethewhales]

Panda Express is my favorite fast food, but I still get sad looking at these site layouts. Yet another asphalt wasteland that is outright hostile to anyone outside a car. Why even bother with all that parking when it's so obviously focused on being a drive through?

[Pete]

^

If you have indoor seating, OKC has minimum parking requirements.

And that is true for all types of businesses outside of downtown and most of the urban districts.

[stlokc]

Panda Express is my favorite fast food, but I still get sad looking at these site layouts. Yet another asphalt wasteland that is outright hostile to anyone outside a car. Why even bother with all that parking when it's so obviously focused on being a drive through?

I love Panda Express as well! But this development, and, honestly, 75 percent of everything commercial that has ever been built north of Memorial Road, makes me sad. I get that this is the suburbs, and everybody drives, but I just find that these little individual pad sites, each populated by a single fast food restaurant with no apparent thought to how the broader development looks or works together, just makes the built environment so blasted boring. And 95% of people don't care but it's all just so throw away and ... cut and paste. And most suburban areas in the Midwest and South are kind of like this, although some places have more architectural standards and shopping centers that just look... I don't know ... better. But I'm sure these places will kill it financially.

[jn1780]

The tract immediately north and between Panda and Taco Bell is owned by Walmart and it looks like they plan to put a gas station there.

Even without the Walmart? Or was that the plan before?

[Pete]

Even without the Walmart? Or was that the plan before?

Walmart still owns the land and is shown on the site plan I posted regarding Panda Express.

When it will be built, I don't know.

[scottk]

I love Panda Express as well! But this development, and, honestly, 75 percent of everything commercial that has ever been built north of Memorial Road, makes me sad. I get that this is the suburbs, and everybody drives, but I just find that these little individual pad sites, each populated by a single fast food restaurant with no apparent thought to how the broader development looks or works together, just makes the built environment so blasted boring. And 95% of people don't care but it's all just so throw away and ... cut and paste. And most suburban areas in the Midwest and South are kind of like this, although some places have more architectural standards and shopping centers that just look... I don't know ... better. But I'm sure these places will kill it financially.

You are 100 percent correct. You are basically punished in a town like Oklahoma City, or any other town that grew post World War 2, if you don't have a car. Why is it built this way? It's quick, cheap, requires no thought, and gets pushed through with very little pushback. Author and City Planner Charles Marohn calls the type of development a "Stroad" a street and road, that is not good at either. Marohn has entire series on restructuring suburbia and how we as a nation have basically destroyed the sense of community that towns use to have with dense urban cores. The good news is more people are shifting the scale back to the core. Luckily OKC has invested in dense housing and development downtown and there is a desire for people to live there, work there, eat there, etc.

Will people still go to everything developed at Deercrest Marketplace? Yes.

But hopefully we as a city continue to invest in quality developments (MAPS) that improve actual LIVING in OKC.

[stlokc]

I realize I’m late to the party but I am Currently reading “Death and Life of Great American Cities” by Jane Jacobs. So insightful. Obviously that book deals with cities and not suburbia, but there’s so much to be learned.

[josefromtulsa]

always makes me happy to see new-urbanist thought pop up in these threads. Like that drive thru layout is so wasteful and are that many parking spots necessary? Undoubtedly the answer is no...

I see some of yall are already educated on the strong town idea but here's some links for those who are not:

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/...entation-rerun

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/.../taco-johns-20

[stlokc]

Great post, Jose. Thank you for sharing.

Another slightly related thing that I find egregious about the photo above is the huge amount of wasted space between the Taco Bell and that collector road circling the actual Wal-Mart site. Are they believing that a business will locate there instead of selecting a tract that fronts Rockwell? Or is it destined to be a vacant lot/collector of wind-swept trash for years to come? I wouldn't design it with this layout at all, but even if I did, I would shrink the space between the collector road and Rockwell. Look at the area around Quail Springs Mall. 40 years after the mall was built there are still vacant, unused properties within that footprint. It just adds to a "hodgepodge shoddiness" that is unappealing.

[DowntownMan]

Great post, Jose. Thank you for sharing.

Another slightly related thing that I find egregious about the photo above is the huge amount of wasted space between the Taco Bell and that collector road circling the actual Wal-Mart site. Are they believing that a business will locate there instead of selecting a tract that fronts Rockwell? Or is it destined to be a vacant lot/collector of wind-swept trash for years to come? I wouldn't design it with this layout at all, but even if I did, I would shrink the space between the collector road and Rockwell. Look at the area around Quail Springs Mall. 40 years after the mall was built there are still vacant, unused properties within that footprint. It just adds to a "hodgepodge shoddiness" that is unappealing.

The road behind Taco Bell will be for access Walmart and other big box stores eventually adjacent to Walmart. Also for accessing properties located in spots north of Taco Bell to avoid each lot having a curb cut on rockwell.

[stlokc]

I understand. I’m talking about the vacant spot directly east of Taco Bell. Not north. I appreciate why the collector road is there and agree with its presence but I’m talking about these “interior lots” that don’t front Rockwell and are in a sense, a second row of stores behind the row that fronts Rockwell. I don’t see those spaces being sold for quite a long time.

[OkiePoke]

60+ parking spots... wow

[josefromtulsa]

60+ parking spots... wow

I didnt bother to count them at first but wow that really puts how ridiculous those numbers are into perspective. Ive never seen a taco bell with more than 5 people inside

[Pete]

60+ parking spots... wow

OKC code requires 1 space for every 50 square feet of restaurant space with a dining area.

This building will be 2,621 SF. Divide that by 50 and you get a minimum of 53 spaces.

Also, keep in mind that a restaurant rarely has control over the exact amount of land they build on. They buy or ground lease a parcel and the size of those is usually long decided before the restaurant comes along. In this example, Panda Express could have made use of slightly less land and still meet the parking requirement, but if they wanted that location they had to take the parcel that was available. It's not like they can just carve out a tiny sliver and then not pay for it. So if you are taking all that land and don't need it for your building and minimum parking requirements, making the parking area slightly bigger is the easiest and cheapest approach.


There are no minimum parking requirements for downtown and most urban districts.

And at least the drive-thru only places have much lower parking minimums.

[Pete]

Starbucks taking the NE corner of Rockwell & Memorial:

[Mballard85]

Man the number of Starbucks on Memorial is pretty wild. I know the one at MacArthur is busy, but I didn't see one popping up a mile away.

[Pete]

Man the number of Starbucks on Memorial is pretty wild. I know the one at MacArthur is busy, but I didn't see one popping up a mile away.

All the Paycom employees going to work.

[Teo9969]

All the Paycom employees going to work.

Same exact setup on NW Expressway.

[DowntownMan]

Man the number of Starbucks on Memorial is pretty wild. I know the one at MacArthur is busy, but I didn't see one popping up a mile away.

The one on MacArthur is sooo busy. The line gets very long at times during the day

[oktxatty]

All the Paycom employees going to work.

The explosive residential developments north of Memorial between Rockwell and County Line should also contribute to this location's success. Will be interesting to see what WalMart eventually does with their attractively-located parcel there as well.

[Pete]

The explosive residential developments north of Memorial between Rockwell and County Line should also contribute to this location's success. Will be interesting to see what WalMart eventually does with their attractively-located parcel there as well.

Walmart still owns that land and the developers keep marketing the other parcels by mentioning Walmart by name.

I believe they will build a supercenter there, it's just a matter of timing.

[Blake.app]

There is a new development on the northeast corner of Rockwell and Memorial that popped up recently. does anyone know what it is?

[Pete]

There is a new development on the northeast corner of Rockwell and Memorial that popped up recently. does anyone know what it is?

Welcome to the site.

The new construction will be a Starbucks. Scroll up for a site plan.