Oil prices

[jn1780]

Well, now we will have a catastrophic impact to the budget along with every other government in the world. We're going to struggle just to pay for basic services in the next fiscal year.

[RedDollar]

OK does not want to compete. They want to cut costs, rather than look to raise revenues outside of O&G. It is rather pathetic.

Oklahoma can't compete and be a high tax state.

We have over a 100 year history that says this state is not an attractive place to live.

Our tax rates are middle of the road now. We have high sales tax, low property tax, and our income tax is somewhere near the middle.

Its not tax rates that's the problem. Its generating economic activity where the problem is at. Tax rates X economic activity = Govt revenue. No one has ever taxed themselves to prosperity.

Most states economy comes from natural resources. Outside of that, it comes from some geographical or climate advantage, that makes it an attractive place to live. There's a reason millions of people want to live in southern California and are willing to pay high tax rates to live there.

And Oklahoma's economy outside of oil and agriculture, is Federal spending and tribal gaming.

Tax rates are not the problem.

Good luck, when it comes to competing, Oklahoma is bringing a knife to a gun fight.

[PhiAlpha]

But we are talking about 10-20 years... Think about where electric cars were 1 and 2 decades ago.

Every major auto manufacturer is now putting out electric models and developing a bunch more. In 10-15 years I strongly believe there will be a major shift towards EV's worldwide.

Like I mentioned above, if the price decreases and some of the battery issues are resolved, I think that will bring down the barriers to adoption on a wide scale.

The average driver has to be able to afford one, it will have to handle most of their personal/work driving and hauling needs, there need to be a wider variety of sizes/options, and there will have to be a pre-owned inventory (If we start producing a bunch over the next few years...the used inventory problem will take care of itself). 10-20 years will probably enough time for battery tech to improve and become cheaper but I'll admit, my knowledge of what's in the chamber there is limited to what I've read online.

As a hauling example, I have a sailboat that weighs around 9000 lbs...it's at the top limit of my Tahoe's towing capability (it probably slightly exceeds it)...no electric vehicle can tow that and generally trailers will reduce driving range. I'm sure that will improve over the next 20 years, but that's definitely not a target market (thought semis likely will be at some point) https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...-towing-range/. I realize that's a highly specific example and not representative of the average driver but a sizable part of the population does need to haul things.

[PhiAlpha]

If ever a case for EVs was made, the current situation restricting driving shows how big the impact of fossil fuel cars is. Check out the air quality in many of the worst smog ridden cities in the world. Literally, the skies have cleared a great deal. For those denying the impact, just look and smell. Besides what is obvious, the lung problems associated with it will go down dramatically if this level can be maintained (which it won't). So, for all the deniers, just look around and breath deeply.

Again, very true but we've known this all along. I'm an Eagle Scout, love the outdoors and have asthma, I can definitely appreciate the reduced environmental impact that a reduction in internal combustion vehicles would provide.

None of that matters though until the average driver can afford one, has incentive to switch, and the pros of owning one outweigh the cons...I think that will happen, I just don't necessarily think we're going to be there for 20 years or so.

[PhiAlpha]

OK does not want to compete. They want to cut costs, rather than look to raise revenues outside of O&G. It is rather pathetic.

How so?

[gopokes88]

And by then alternative energy could be making a dramatic impact.

I'm not so sure that just because O&G has come back in OK before that it will again, at least at anything like the levels seen in previous boom periods.

It already is making an impact. It will be a slow wind down for O&G or they find a new use for it which has happened many times before in it's history.

[jdizzle]

How so?

What new revenue streams have they sought, or what new companies have they lured here?

[gopokes88]

Stop polluting PhiAlpha and I's thread with state politics

[gopokes88]

What new revenue streams have they sought, or what new companies have they lured here?

http://www.boeing.com/

Now FOH this doesn't have to be rehased for 8,000,000th time

[chuck5815]

I would like to think that OKC is fine-ish on a mid-term basis (https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.ok_oklahomacity_msa.htm), but the rest of the State is just completely F'd if the oil fields are truly dead. And I tend to agree that they are, barring a big miracle.

[Executionist]

But we are talking about 10-20 years... Think about where electric cars were 1 and 2 decades ago.

Every major auto manufacturer is now putting out electric models and developing a bunch more. In 10-15 years I strongly believe there will be a major shift towards EV's worldwide.

Bingo.

https://www.alliedmarketresearch.com...vehicle-market

And I concur with whoever said there is a growing "cool" factor with the available new tech in EV's, given the average transaction price for a Tesla is over $50k, these buyers aren't buying them to save a few hundred bucks a year on gas.

[PhiAlpha]

Stop polluting PhiAlpha and I's thread with state politics

HAHA! I laughed out loud when I read this.

[Pete]

FWIW, the huge percentage of businesses in any city are homegrown, not moved from elsewhere.

And new and growing businesses are tied very closely to good education and universities that prompt startups and provide a skilled workforce.

Until Oklahoma makes a decent commitment to those things we will be overly reliant on a stupidly volatile O&G industry, which is the way some want it.

[Executionist]

What new revenue streams have they sought, or what new companies have they lured here?

In case you just recently moved to Oklahoma, the Oklahoma State Board of Equalization site can bring you up to date.

[jdizzle]

http://www.boeing.com/

Now FOH this doesn't have to be rehased for 8,000,000th time

Not really new. DFW gets dozens of new HQs a year, including Fortune 500 companies. Who is OK getting? We could consolidate office space downtown and half the buildings would be empty. That is sad for this state.

[jdizzle]

FWIW, the huge percentage of businesses in any city are homegrown, not moved from elsewhere.

And new and growing businesses are tied very closely to good education and universities that prompt startups and provide a skilled workforce.

Until Oklahoma makes a decent commitment to those things we will be overly reliant on a stupidly volatile O&G industry, which is the way some want it.

Hence my disappointment in Oklahoma. It is a never-ending cycle - need to fund education better, but need better education to lure companies here.

[Teo9969]

Any thoughts PhiAlpha or gopokes on the above possibility of E&P companies transitioning to Geothermal production?

[jedicurt]

Hence my disappointment in Oklahoma. It is a never-ending cycle - need to fund education better, but need better education to lure companies here.

except that isn't the cycle... the cycle is that even when we are flush with cash, we still don't fund education... even when we had a bunch of companies, we didn't fund it.... they weren't always tied together... the never-ending part is we just don't fund education. the needing it to lure companies here to get enough funds is only a recent issue after the bust recovery.

[jdizzle]

except that isn't the cycle... the cycle is that even when we are flush with cash, we still don't fund education... even when we had a bunch of companies, we didn't fund it.... they weren't always tied together... the never-ending part is we just don't fund education. the needing it to lure companies here to get enough funds is only a recent issue after the bust recovery.

Well, I also have no trust in the citizens of this state, or any of the legislators, to actually care about education. Most don't, and it won't change. Hence my disappointment in Oklahoma.

[Pete]

The irony is that we keep voting to tax ourselves in the name of economic development and voters in school districts keep approving massive bond issues and thus even more property tax, yet the state just won't fund education under any circumstances.

It's so incredibly short-sighted. Being a cheap place to live is not a good selling point. Places are cheap for a reason.

[Dob Hooligan]

Electric vehicles are the wave of the future. Virtually all carmakers have committed to an electric future. Equally important, car component suppliers (like the European conglomerate that we recognize as Continental tires and belts, yet supply virtually all drive train parts) have written down the value of their internal combustion parts businesses and emphasized their move to electric vehicle parts.

I see batteries as the "fly in the ointment" in the electric vehicle future. What we see currently is that the batteries in electric vehicles and hybrids have a life span of around 10 years. The batteries are installed in such a way that replacement is labor intensive, and the part cost is high. We will wind up with 12-15 year old cars that just don't go down the road. Imagine a world where all cars older than 2007 are junk.

[Teo9969]

Well, I also have no trust in the citizens of this state, or any of the legislators, to actually care about education. Most don't, and it won't change. Hence my disappointment in Oklahoma.

The death of oil on the heels of decades of decline in manufacturing should deliver a major blow to a majority of small town Oklahoma to the degree that we lose a decent amount of rural population. As soon as Tulsa and OKC metros represent 70% of the state population, I think that's when we'll finally see a shift in priorities.

[Bunty]

I would like to think that OKC is fine-ish on a mid-term basis (https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.ok_oklahomacity_msa.htm), but the rest of the State is just completely F'd if the oil fields are truly dead. And I tend to agree that they are, barring a big miracle.

Somebody needs to invent a new use for oil.

[gopokes88]

Any thoughts PhiAlpha or gopokes on the above possibility of E&P companies transitioning to Geothermal production?

Nah. I don’t see it. They aren’t utilities.

There’s a potential pivot towards mining crypto.

[gopokes88]

The death of oil on the heels of decades of decline in manufacturing should deliver a major blow to a majority of small town Oklahoma to the degree that we lose a decent amount of rural population. As soon as Tulsa and OKC metros represent 70% of the state population, I think that's when we'll finally see a shift in priorities.

Manufacturing is going to roar back this decade. That will be a very real consequence for the Chinese. Once this passes, the Federal government will likely order essential goods be manufactured here.