Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

NOAA says we would need record-ish rainfall to end the drought

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/images/fxc/o...mage_full7.jpg

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Originally Posted by BoulderSooner

I wonder how many on this thread actually watched the OKC Water trust meeting ...

or know that OKC went to the water restrictions out of a moral choice (because of some of our neighboring cities) not an OKC water shortage choice ... or know that the pipe line from atoka is full open and has been for several months and that draper is slowly refilling ... or that OKC is going to start limiting the water taken from hefner and start taking more from draper on non peak usage days ... or that OKC has a policy of not filling hefner for rec activities only for water needs ..

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Then we don't need to release water from Lake Canton then. It would certainly be a crisis for a lot of people and wildlife around Canton if it gets drained too low.

So which is it? Are they thinking about releasing water from Canton because of water needs or are they giving in to political pressure because Hefner looks bad?

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Originally Posted by 1972ford

Use two cups pour one into the other if you need flowing water

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LOL, thanks for the idea but I don't have two hours to shave in the morning.

It's a start. There is an extreme water crisis plaguing our state. After a meeting with the Col of the Corp of Engineers in Tulsa yesterday, and viewing a map of all Corp lakes in the region and their lowered water tables, it's very evident. This drought has taken it's toll on the lakes that are used for municipal water supplies. The Colonel is very concerned of the consequences of the impending drought and there doesn't appear to be any relief in sight. He has been trying to get the attention of State officials on this matter for quite sometime. Water conservation and rationing need to become household words to get us through this mess.


Drought could lead to tighter water restrictions for OKC residents | NewsOK.com

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Originally Posted by BoulderSooner

I wonder how many on this thread actually watched the OKC Water trust meeting ...

or know that OKC went to the water restrictions out of a moral choice (because of some of our neighboring cities) not an OKC water shortage choice ... or know that the pipe line from atoka is full open and has been for several months and that draper is slowly refilling ... or that OKC is going to start limiting the water taken from hefner and start taking more from draper on non peak usage days ... or that OKC has a policy of not filling hefner for rec activities only for water needs ..

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Originally Posted by BoulderSooner

OKC has plenty of water for all of those new people for way more than the next 20 years

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Originally Posted by MarkAFuqua

It's a start. There is an extreme water crisis plaguing our state. After a meeting with the Col of the Corp of Engineers in Tulsa yesterday, and viewing a map of all Corp lakes in the region and their lowered water tables, it's very evident. This drought has taken it's toll on the lakes that are used for municipal water supplies. The Colonel is very concerned of the consequences of the impending drought and there doesn't appear to be any relief in sight. He has been trying to get the attention of State officials on this matter for quite sometime. Water conservation and rationing need to become household words to get us through this mess.

Drought could lead to tighter water restrictions for OKC residents | NewsOK.com

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I wonder what the truth is. If OKC does have a water problem in the future, why is the OKC Water Trust so certain that that info does not need to get out? If OKC does NOT have a water problem in the future, why is the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers so adamant (at least in their meetings with MarkAFuqua) that there's a regional drought crisis? Does OKC Water Trust want the problem to exacerbate until it's a crisis and then we can claim we absolutely NEED the Sardis water? Does the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers need to justify more budget for another lake or are they mired in the belief that all their lakes must be just so full? Was there really another shooter behind the grassy knoll? I'm not really looking for a conspiracy. I just wonder why two different agencies can have such differing views about the same situation?

If there is not a water problem, why is Hefner disappearing?

Every city government needs to start major education and marketing campaigns. I don't think most people really understand or believe the need to conserve.

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Originally Posted by Dubya61

I wonder what the truth is. If OKC does have a water problem in the future, why is the OKC Water Trust so certain that that info does not need to get out? If OKC does NOT have a water problem in the future, why is the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers so adamant (at least in their meetings with MarkAFuqua) that there's a regional drought crisis? Does OKC Water Trust want the problem to exacerbate until it's a crisis and then we can claim we absolutely NEED the Sardis water? Does the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers need to justify more budget for another lake or are they mired in the belief that all their lakes must be just so full? Was there really another shooter behind the grassy knoll? I'm not really looking for a conspiracy. I just wonder why two different agencies can have such differing views about the same situation?

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OKC and "the region" are not the same thing ... norman has a water problem right now as do others i'm sure .. and they will only grow in the future ... OKC water trust has done a wonderful job over the last 50+ years to protect and gain water rights for OKC .. and they continue to do that going into the future ..

The water crisis is absolutely this serious. OKC residents should be asking the OKC Water Trust and the Mayor and Council about the looming crisis.

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Originally Posted by law

The water crisis is absolutely this serious. OKC residents should be asking the OKC Water Trust and the Mayor and Council about the looming crisis.

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link?

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Originally Posted by Frustratedoptimist

Every city government needs to start major education and marketing campaigns. I don't think most people really understand or believe the need to conserve.

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Conservation isn't going to cut it. We have to rescale how people live.

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Originally Posted by Just the facts

Conservation isn't going to cut it. We have to rescale how people live.

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That may be true, but we can at least START with conservation.

Nobody has answered the question earlier in this thread, so I'll ask again.

Why is OKC water so cheap?

If you want people to change, you make them pay. It is the only way to truly get people to change the way they live.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous.

Nobody has answered the question earlier in this thread, so I'll ask again.

Why is OKC water so cheap?

If you want people to change, you make them pay. It is the only way to truly get people to change the way they live.

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Probably becasue it is priced to cover the cost of supplying it plus a small profit to the city. It isn't priced to influence behavior. You're right though, make the stuff $1 gallon and you wouldn't have to encourage people to conserve, they would do it all on their own.

http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blo...58174965529001

Our Senator from Woodward who is in the know, realizes there is a sever water problem. I posted earlier in the forum that I can't speak to the severity of all of OKC having a water issue, but I can most certainly assure you that unless the Oklahoma City Water Utilities Trust lied to my face in a meeting about Canton being their only option for water once Hefner was down, the 200,000 plus patrons that rely on that water are in a water crisis. Of course it could rain a bunch in the next few weeks or months and I will look like Chicken Little screaming about the sky falling because the problem could correct itself with help from mother nature. All extended forecasts do not say that is likely however. I pray it does rain, but I fear it won't rain enough to fix this issue anytime soon. Again though, there may well be parts of the city that have plenty of water resources but the folks in NW OKC who count on Canton water have a problem.

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Originally Posted by Dubya61

I wonder what the truth is. If OKC does have a water problem in the future, why is the OKC Water Trust so certain that that info does not need to get out? If OKC does NOT have a water problem in the future, why is the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers so adamant (at least in their meetings with MarkAFuqua) that there's a regional drought crisis? Does OKC Water Trust want the problem to exacerbate until it's a crisis and then we can claim we absolutely NEED the Sardis water? Does the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers need to justify more budget for another lake or are they mired in the belief that all their lakes must be just so full? Was there really another shooter behind the grassy knoll? I'm not really looking for a conspiracy. I just wonder why two different agencies can have such differing views about the same situation?

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I think you will see from some headlines very soon that the Water Trust is changing it's tune and tighter restrictions are on the way. They are essentially admitting what I and others have been saying all along, there is a water shortage.

At this point it's not dire for anyone but the Canton Lake community and surrounding towns... and all those who rely on Canton Lake for their enjoyment and to make a living. All the thousands of people who call that lake home for the summer or simply come to visit. My friend who owns the grocery store and others who own the convenience stores and pretty much every business up and down main street are friends of mine and I assure you this situation is very serious to them. They have already had to talk about laying off employees and and closing up shop if this impending 30,000 acre feet water draw happens as the OKC Water Trust has implied it will. Why you ask, because there was no proper planning to educate the masses last summer that water rationing and conservation should have been implemented. Everyone knew we were in a two year drought already at that point and that the long term forecasts were calling for it to continue for anywhere from 5 to 10 years. Lack of planning ahead caused issues that will cause innocent people to suffer, not to mention potentially kill millions of fish and a lake to be ruined for years to come. Experts say as many as 5 to 10 years possibly if OKC takes this water and we don't get rain.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous.

Nobody has answered the question earlier in this thread, so I'll ask again.

Why is OKC water so cheap?

If you want people to change, you make them pay. It is the only way to truly get people to change the way they live.

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Rate increases are on the way! Especially for high end users.

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Originally Posted by BoulderSooner

OKC and "the region" are not the same thing ... norman has a water problem right now as do others i'm sure .. and they will only grow in the future ... OKC water trust has done a wonderful job over the last 50+ years to protect and gain water rights for OKC .. and they continue to do that going into the future ..

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Unless OKC has cheap access to water that doesn't come from the region, I'd say OKC and the region are competing for the same water. Can OKC's water rights guarantee that there will be water there? in Canton? without debilitating THAT region? OU prides itself, according to one poster on another thread, in pumping its own water for landscape watering. Does that magically NOT come from the same Central Oklahoma Aquifer I use on my land? If OKC has water rights to 50 dry lakes, will OKC still have water? what about 51 dry lakes? 100 dry lakes?

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Originally Posted by BoulderSooner

link?

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Canton Lake is already 9+ ft low. Canton Lake

OKC plans 7+ ft draw. That would reduce Canton's levels to below 1598+ ft.
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Technically, Canton's inactive level is 1596.50. No silt studies have been done since 1977. It is unknown if Canton can actually go to that level. There will be no more water until Canton fills to a functionally drawable level (enough water in Canton to get any release water to OKC). Not because Canton or the Corps could or would stop it, there will simply be no water in your storage space.

Once OKC draws this 7+ ft, the only water available to OKC residents dependent on Hefner will be rain and what is in storage. Without rain and with Canton "empty", the countdown will begin. It may be a wet spring, it may not, only time will tell. Solutions take time, but without rain, time is short, and I don't see anyone in OKC talking about how to solve the problem, or even admitting to the public there is a problem. Think about the changes in the OKC water trust press releases in the last two weeks.

Please understand, this is not like the years Canton wanted to keep water for summer recreation. This is an entirely different situation. This is a drought. We would need 20 inches of rain to end the drought by the end of May….see the NOAA map posted by Snowman.

Corps of Engineers drought update here: Drought Update, Jan. 24 > Tulsa District > Tulsa District News Stories

It is Canton's problem now. Soon, it will be OKC's problem.

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Originally Posted by Dubya61

Unless OKC has cheap access to water that doesn't come from the region, I'd say OKC and the region are competing for the same water. Can OKC's water rights guarantee that there will be water there? in Canton? without debilitating THAT region? OU prides itself, according to one poster on another thread, in pumping its own water for landscape watering. Does that magically NOT come from the same Central Oklahoma Aquifer I use on my land? If OKC has water rights to 50 dry lakes, will OKC still have water? what about 51 dry lakes? 100 dry lakes?

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Okc has the pipeline to the southeast at full on. They have tons of water rights in the south east

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Originally Posted by BoulderSooner

Okc has the pipeline to the southeast at full on. They have tons of water rights in the south east

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Then why don't they use those rights? Instead they will draw Canton to inactive. Why would they choose to do that it they have a choice? Why would they choose an ecological disaster that will last for years? When Canton Lake is dead, OKC will be blamed. They have not been good stewards, nor have they warned the public that is dependent on that water.

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Originally Posted by law

Then why don't they use those rights? Instead they will draw Canton to inactive. Why would they choose to do that it they have a choice? Why would they choose an ecological disaster that will last for years? When Canton Lake is dead, OKC will be blamed. They have not been good stewards, nor have they warned the public that is dependent on that water.

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While the station at Draper can reach most of the city, their are some parts on the west side (probably includes some of the suburbs they have agreements with) that still need to get water from the Hefner plant (presumably why the number stated was around 200,000). They have been doing work to increased both the reach and volume that can directed to the west side from Draper. However their is the issue that during a normal summer Draper and Hefner generally both get up to their max capacities and they pull the old station at Overholser online; rationing should help, banning watering yards totally would do even more if it is that desperate.

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Originally Posted by law

Then why don't they use those rights? Instead they will draw Canton to inactive. Why would they choose to do that it they have a choice? Why would they choose an ecological disaster that will last for years? When Canton Lake is dead, OKC will be blamed. They have not been good stewards, nor have they warned the public that is dependent on that water.

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All of that water is Okc property

OKC leases storage. If there is no water in their storage space there is no water.

If OKC has other sources, why would they choose to destroy Canton Lake and the economy around that resource, just because "All of that water is Okc property". Wouldn't it make sense to protect that resource because it has great value to many people, OKC included?

More about the Canton/OKC water crisis:

Oklahoma State Senate
Communications Division
State Capitol
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73105

For Immediate Release: January 24, 2012

Sen. Marlatt urges OKC to adopt more aggressive water conservation; says planned draw down would kill Canton Lake for 5 to 10 years
(For digital audio, go to Oklahoma Senate - Home Page and select “Media”)

OKLAHOMA CITY –Taking an additional 30,000 acre-feet of water from Canton Lake would only be a temporary fix for Oklahoma City’s water woes, but the immediate and long-term impact on western Oklahoma would be devastating, with repercussions for the entire state, said State Sen. Bryce Marlatt, R-Woodward. He urged Oklahoma City officials to be better stewards of the resource—and better neighbors to Western Oklahoma.
The state’s largest city announced watering limits last week, but Marlatt said that move was really too little, too late. This week it was reported that the city’s water utilities department will present plans for more aggressive conservation measures, including higher prices and increased rationing, over the next few weeks. Marlatt said those should be enacted before taking water from western Oklahoma.
“Everyone knows we are in a prolonged drought, and cutting back on outdoor watering in the dead of winter really isn’t a solution. Oklahoma City’s ultimate plan is a huge draw on Canton Lake, the main recreational lake in western Oklahoma, but this is essentially going to kill our lake,” Marlatt said. “Legally, they have the right to do it. But it doesn’t make it morally right. Oklahoma City needs to do everything it possibly can to avoid this draw down for as long as possible.”
Canton Lake is not only important to fisherman who head there for the plentiful walleye, sand bass, catfish and more—it is also the walleye hatchery for the entire state. The plan to draw an additional 30,000 acre-feet of water would end that.
“It is essentially going to kill the lake for five to 10 years. All the game fish that people come for will die out, and there will be no more walleye hatchery,” Marlatt said. “This is going to have a negative impact on lakes throughout Oklahoma.”
Although Oklahoma City has the legal rights to the water in Canton Lake, it is still a critical part of western Oklahoma’s tourism and recreation, but like the hatchery, any recreational use of the lake will become a thing of the past once the water is gone.

“Once they draw the water, recreational boating will be nonexistent. The remaining water will not reach a single boat ramp. People who come to boat and fish will stop coming and it’s going to impact local economies—restaurants, grocery stores, gas stations, and cabin rentals will see all those dollars go away,” Marlatt said. “That’s going to have a chain reaction in our local economy.”
Rep. Mike Sanders, R-Kingfisher, said it is critical for Oklahoma City to view taking the water from Lake Canton as a last resort to be avoided as long as possible. He also urged the metro to look at more aggressive ways to limit water use.
“The economic and environmental impact to Canton and western Oklahoma will be felt for years to come if this goes through,” Sanders said. “This is a dire situation, and the fact of the matter is, if they aren’t conserving water, then they are actually wasting water. We simply don’t have the water to waste.”
Marlatt called the situation a disaster for western Oklahoma, and a potential disaster for Oklahoma City.
“At best, this is only a temporary fix for Oklahoma City,” Marlatt said. “But once they take this water from Canton Lake, that’s it--the water will be gone and people in both parts of the state are going to pay the price for Oklahoma City not doing more to conserve this precious resource.”