View Full Version : Another Shooting...when will it end?

04-29-2007, 09:07 PM
This is starting to get real old. Another shooting with multiple wounded and multiple fatalities.

Fire officials: 3 dead in shooting at Kansas City shopping center

KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) - A man driving a dead woman's car shot a police officer, then opened fire in a parking lot and a mall Sunday, authorities said. By the end of the day, four people, including the gunman, were dead.

Police shot the gunman to death outside a Target store inside Ward Parkway Center in south Kansas City, police spokesman Tony Sanders said.

Target employee Cassie Bradshaw, 19, was in a break room with two other people when they heard shots. Then, her co-workers saw a man in his 50s with a rifle "shooting everywhere," she said.

"It sounded like maybe firecrackers at first but then they got louder and louder and louder, and it sounded like someone shooting a gun," she said.

The string of violence began early Sunday afternoon, when police went to a home to check on an elderly woman relatives hadn't seen for days. The woman was found dead and her car missing, Sanders said.

The car was spotted later in the day at a gas station by an officer, who pulled the driver over and was shot in the arm, police said. The officer, whose wound was not life-threatening, returned fire and shattered the window of the gunman's car.

The car took off and was seen later at the shopping center. The man pulled into a parking space and fired at the cars on either side of him, killing two people, authorities said. He fired more shots, wounding two people, then went inside the mall, Sanders said.

Police did not say how the elderly woman died, or if the gunman was a suspect in her death. But they did say they believed the events were connected.

The mall, one of the city's busiest shopping centers, was shut down and officers were going through each store to see if anyone else might have been involved, Sanders said.

The gunman and victims' names were not immediately released, and conditions of the wounded were not available.

04-30-2007, 04:01 AM
I think the answer is more guns. :rolleyes:

Oh GAWD the Smell!
04-30-2007, 05:14 AM
I think the answer is more guns. :rolleyes:

Me too.

But make them Nerf guns.

That would be sweet to bust a bright orange quasi-cap in the backside of those 22-item-in-the-express-lane-people without fear of any sort of reprisal other than some mushy return fire.

Seriously...Wouldln't that be a great stress reliever? If EVERYBODY was packing a Nerf gun?

Me: "Hey Roger, your cat crapped in my flowerbed and walked all over a fresh polish job on my hotrod again"

Neighbor: "So what Mike? It's just mulch and you're going to wash that thing again on Sat....Hey what are you do...."


04-30-2007, 06:17 AM
I think the answer is more guns. :rolleyes:
How many of those who were killed were armed and able to defend themselves?

04-30-2007, 06:19 AM
How many of those who were killed were armed and able to defend themselves?
The news stories I saw and read did not specify. But I'm sure that more guns were the answer. It's the answer to everything, right?

04-30-2007, 06:57 AM
I read that both people shot were sitting in their parked cars on either side of the shooter when he pulled into a parking lot.. I seriously doubt even if they had guns, they would have been able to protect themselves - they had no time.

04-30-2007, 08:12 AM
Pug, nobody said the answer to everything was more guns, but an armed citizen is a lot less likely to becoming a victim of any crime.

Karried, that's why I include the part about "able to defend themselves". Apparently, circumstances dictated that they had little chance. Perhaps if they'd had the chance to inform the guy that they were in a "gun free zone", he might have reconsidered and left the premises. As we all know, a criminal's greatest fear is breaking a weapons law.

04-30-2007, 12:24 PM
Monk, not trying to pick a fight here, but I'd like to hear your reaction to the large number of international studies (readily available through Google) that indicate a correlation between strictly controlled gun access/ownership and a low violent crime rate. We've all heard the "armed society is a polite society" argument, and these studies seem to disprove that theory. Any thoughts?

04-30-2007, 01:53 PM
Tim, there's no need to fight! :) But, without viewing the details of the studies you mention, it's hard to address them. In general though, I'm sure that you are aware that there are a myriad of ways in which statistics can be massaged and presented a certain way to make a point (Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that).

With that in mind, I'll present the following report (a.k.a. the Kates/Mauser report), and if you like we can compare one that you feel comfortable with and we can pick apart the details. This report focuses on the murder and suicide rates (not violent crime rate or overall crime rates which would be interesting as well).

Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International Evidence (

A couple of quick snippets:

It may be useful to begin with a few examples. One is the compound assertion that: (a) guns are uniquely available in the U.S. compared to other modern developed nations, which is why (b) the U.S. has by far the highest murder rate.

Though this has been endlessly repeated, in fact, b) is false and a) substantially so. The false assertion that the U.S. has the industrialized world’s highest murder rate is an artifact of politically motivated Soviet minimization of true Russian homicide rates since at least 1965. As of many years before that date Russia had extremely stringent gun controls which were effectuated by a police state apparatus providing for extremely stringent enforcement. So successful was that regime that few Russian civilians have firearms and very few murders involve them. Yet manifest success in keeping its people disarmed has not prevented Russia from having far and away the highest murder rate in the developed world. In the 1960s and early ‘70s, gunless Russia’s murder rates paralleled (generally exceeded) those of gun-ridden America. As American rates first stabilized and then steeply declined, Russian murder increased so drastically that by the early 1990s the Russian rate was three times higher than the U.S. As of 1998-2004 (the latest figure available for Russia) Russian murder rates were nearly four times higher than American. Much higher murder rates than the U.S. ever had also characterize the Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and various other now-independent European parts of the former U.S.S.R. Thus in the U.S., the former Soviet Union, and current-day Russia, “homicide results" suggest that where guns are scarce other weapons are substituted in killings.

In the late 1990s England moved from stringent controls to a complete ban on handguns and many types of long guns. Hundreds of thousands were confiscated from owners law abiding enough to turn them in. Without suggesting this caused violence, the bans' ineffectiveness was such that by year 2000 violent crime had so increased that England had the developed world’s highest violent crime rate, far surpassing even the U.S.

04-30-2007, 02:19 PM
Gun control laws won’t reduce the murder rate (

The article was rather lengthy, and I hate excessively long quotes. While I can appreciate the authors point in your post, I think that he/she is placing the blame for our high murder rate squarely on the former USSR and ignoring other factors and other Nation's statistics. As we have discussed in other threads, I do not believe that the 2nd Amendment grants gun ownership to all citizens, nor do I believe that guns are inherently evil. I simply feel that we have a problem in our country and that we need to let go of some partisan self-interest and work together on a solution. There are some very smart people on both the left and the right, and I really can't understand why they can't come together for the common good!

04-30-2007, 05:00 PM
No, that was just an example from early in the text. I guess it looks that way if you don't read the rest of it. It's 107 pages, but it's double-spaced and has a large area for references at the bottom so it's not really that long of a read. Read the whole thing when you get a chance. I'll read through your link when I can and let you know my thoughts.

04-30-2007, 05:47 PM
I do not believe that the 2nd Amendment grants gun ownership to all citizens.

Heavens, no. You have to buy your own.

04-30-2007, 05:50 PM
The killing will end when every human being is either locked up or dead.

If I where to blame anything it is our tendency to isolate ourselves. Maybe if we all made an effort to befriend one another (or at least be social) the violence would slow down.

We did not have this type of thing happening back years ago when everybody knew their neighbors. The few people that where considered strangers where not strangers for long.

I think people snap because they feel they have no other options. That is why we all need friends. Friends can help us when we need it the most. Sometimes, all we need is a second opinion to point out the better options for dealing with our problems.

Gee I sound like a fortune cookie or one of those stupid motivational posters......

Oh GAWD the Smell!
04-30-2007, 06:11 PM
Gee I sound like a fortune cookie or one of those stupid motivational posters......

Those things are great.

04-30-2007, 06:18 PM
It will never end.....society is miserable with all of the issues and no relief in sight.

We couldn't even begin to address an issue like gun control. People will find whatever means necessary to harm others with when they go postal.

Gun control? People control!

Our country is at war....guns come in handy, when you are in a fight for your life. I read a news report that stated the VT gunman fired 700 rounds in 9 minutes. Who would have a chance to pull out a concealed weapon and return fire?

"Guns Kill" is akin to saying that "Pencils Mispel".