New arena or upgrade the Ford Center?

Will have to do both to obtain and retain an NBA team

Yeah, there really needs to be a both option. As in upgrade the arena enough for 5+years until a new one can start construction.

I agree. Both will have to occur.

ok... so where should this new arena to be located? -M

New arena could be on the site of the current Cox Center, assuming a new convention center will be built south of the Ford Center.


And I think we all agree on a new arena, it's just the timing that's in doubt.

And then the second question is whether to include it in MAPS III.

I don't know enough about NBA arena's - WIll it be a dedicated facility or available for other uses? My vote would be somewhere between McArthur and Yukon close to I-40. That area has enough land available for parking as well as a roomy facility. Close proximity to I-40 would help fans as well as team staff should the Ford Center become the Okahoma Bolters practice facility and team offices be in Bricktown.

My vote would be somewhere between McArthur and Yukon close to I-40. That area has enough land available for parking as well as a roomy facility. Close proximity to I-40 would help fans as well as team staff should the Ford Center become the Okahoma Bolters practice facility and team offices be in Bricktown.
What????? Why would you have it away from downtown? If you moved it there you certainly limit its uses.


Okahoma Bolters
WHAT??????? Bolters?

I think I'm gonna be sick.

I understand where you are coming from on the eventual necessity of a new arena. However, I disagree on the time frame. The Ford Center, if refurbished, can last a good 10 years as an NBA arena.

Attaching a new arena to MAPS 3 will almost certainly cause much criticism and could potentially endanger the entire MAPS from passing. The general voting public will be thinking the same thing: We just got an arena. Why do we need another one now? Why did the city waste $87 million of my money on the one we have if we need a new one already?

I fundamentally disagree with the notion that we as a city should whore ourselves out to the NBA. If they are going to want a new arena every 10-15 years, is it such a good investment to the city? A basketball team alone will not solely continue the city's renaissance. I'd much rather see $250 million in MAPS3 be spent on the foundations for a light rail system.

I actually think that the Ford Center could be added on to in many ways to make it a great NBA arena without buidling a new one. If I am correct, that's what i think should be done, because it is in such a great location.

I think the Ford Center could easily accomodate the following improvements:

1) Finish it out nicer
2) Sky Boxes
3) New facade and grand entrance/atrtium, either on Reno or to the south when the freeway moves
4) More Restaraunts and accomodations in and around the arena.
5) A retail complex to the south

I don't know. I'm not sure that what most are looking for these days in an arena couldn't be added to the existing structure, which I think would be a great way to go, so we don't lose the location. The capacity at around 19,100 is fine. I think the biggest obstacle is the limited number of luxury boxes. If it had another row of boxes just above the 100s or directly under the current boxes, the guts would be fine and all you'd have to do is dress it up and deck it out more, which can be done without completely abandoning the place.

And whatever we do, don't take it out of downtown.

Sooner...You say 10 I say 5 yrs...Not a huge difference there

If we start building in 5 or 6 years and the new arena is ready to roll in 2015 the Ford Center would be 13 years old...If we land an NBA team and house them for another 7 years in the Ford center...Add in 13 years of concerts, conventions, sporting events and all the publicity garnered by building it

I would say that's the best $80 million this state has EVER spent

I promise you that if you include an arena in MAPS III, it will not pass, and most of the citizens of Oklahoma City will be questioning the sanity of our city leaders. Most ordinary people, myself included, wouldn't think it makes financial sense to build another arena when we already have a new arena. Plus, the arena we have isn't even finished yet. The Ford Center needs to be completed first. And it could take at least 5 years to complete the Ford Center. Then we need to take advantage of the upgrades we've made to the Ford Center for many years, before we consider building a new arena.

We didn't just waste $90 million on a 20K seat arena for it to sit idle. Let's use it, and expand on it.

Madison Square Garden is many years old, yet it has been updated many times, and frequent updates keep it as one of the nicer arenas in the NBA.

Ford Center has great location. Let's take advantage of that and build upon the arena we already have.

I don't know why we're even arguing about this. City leaders plan to make improvements to Ford Center, not build another arena. They're not stupid enough to include another arena in MAPS III when we already have a new arena.

By the way, we don't even have an NBA team guaranteed to us yet, so I think we have the cart before the horse here.

Anybody ever heard of Gallagher-Iba?

Gallagher-Iba Arena - (http://www.okstate.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=200&ATCLID=5836&SPID=146&SPSID=1482)

Constructon Photos:

Oklahoma State University Physical Plant - Project Details (http://www.pp.okstate.edu/projects/detail.php?loc=029&ident=01.1999)

That's why you see a lot of IF's in people's posts java


Anyways....We all know improvements will be made to the Ford Center if the Sonics come here...That is a foregone conclusion

As for the arena...Do you consider a 13 yr old arena as new ?..You are acting like we are recommending a ground breaking on a new arena next month...Not the case at all

That's why you see a lot of IF's in people's posts java


Anyways....We all know improvements will be made to the Ford Center if the Sonics come here...That is a foregone conclusion

As for the arena...Do you consider a 13 yr old arena as new ?..You are acting like we are recommending a ground breaking on a new arena next month...Not the case at all


I think most arenas have an average lifespan of around 25-30 years. If we continue to make improvements to the Ford Center, it could easily last that long.

By the way, I bet you'd be all in favor of tearing down Wrigley Field, wouldn't you?
You're just like every other person in this city. Go join the folks at Urban Renewal.

Anybody ever heard of Gallagher-Iba?

Gallagher-Iba Arena - (http://www.okstate.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=200&ATCLID=5836&SPID=146&SPSID=1482)

Constructon Photos:

Oklahoma State University Physical Plant - Project Details (http://www.pp.okstate.edu/projects/detail.php?loc=029&ident=01.1999)

There is your $50 mil in improvements at the Ford Center...Thats a gimme...NBA and a university in Stillwater are extremely different beasts

Anybody ever heard of Gallagher-Iba?

Gallagher-Iba Arena - (http://www.okstate.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=200&ATCLID=5836&SPID=146&SPSID=1482)

Constructon Photos:

Oklahoma State University Physical Plant - Project Details (http://www.pp.okstate.edu/projects/detail.php?loc=029&ident=01.1999)


Yes, Gallagher Iba has history, and they'd never consider tearing it down and building a new arena. Instead, the enlarged and improved the arena they already had.

There is your $50 mil in improvements at the Ford Center...Thats a gimme...NBA and a university in Stillwater are extremely different beasts

Not necessarily. Tell that to the people in New York.

Yes, Gallagher Iba has history, and they'd never consider tearing it down and building a new arena. Instead, the enlarged and improved the arena they already had.

Exactly. History.

Something that will never be achieve by tearing down and building again.

Exactly. History.

Something that will never be achieve by tearing down and building again.

Tell that to the Urban Renewal Authority that destroyed downtown Oklahoma City.

Oh yeah I forgot...The Ford Center has so much tradition and history...Who can forget the first time Disney on Ice skated there and can't dismiss the historic Pearl Jam concert?...Eerily similar to the slightly older Gallagher Iba and Wrigley

Good examples though...Mind if I compare it to other 5 year old multi - purpose arenas instead of a 90 year old baseball stadium and a 70 year old college basketball venue?

90 years from now, you might be singing a different tune, especially if the Ford Center is well maintained.

Oh yeah I forgot...The Ford Center has so much tradition and history...Who can forget the first time Disney on Ice skated there and can't dismiss the historic Pearl Jam concert?...Eerily similar to the slightly older Gallagher Iba and Wrigley

Good examples though...Mind if I compare it to other 5 year old multi - purpose arenas instead of a 90 year old baseball stadium and a 70 year old college basketball venue?

Grow up.

History has to start somewhere. Why not here?


Oh and by the way:


My vote would be somewhere between McArthur and Yukon close to I-40. That area has enough land available for parking as well as a roomy facility. Close proximity to I-40 would help fans as well as team staff should the Ford Center become the Okahoma Bolters practice facility and team offices be in Bricktown.

Yukon? Bolters? What?


I would say that's the best $80 million this state has EVER spent.

Do yourself a favor and do a little research and see what NBA arenas are going for these days. And in case you have been under a rock since 1993, the MAPS projects are funded by a CITY sales tax...not the state.

I don't know enough about NBA arena's - WIll it be a dedicated facility or available for other uses? My vote would be somewhere between McArthur and Yukon close to I-40. That area has enough land available for parking as well as a roomy facility. Close proximity to I-40 would help fans as well as team staff should the Ford Center become the Okahoma Bolters practice facility and team offices be in Bricktown.


LMAO........:kicking:


I think we should locate it somewhere between Guymon and Bowlegs.

I think we should improve the Ford Center immediately, as was already part of the city's plan; yet we should also address any concerns Bennett might have which might require dollars the city does not already have. It shouldn't be more than $40M and should easily be added to a MAPS 3 vote.

Bennett is aware of the I-40 situation, so another thing we could do to make sure we get the SONICS is promise him that we would have a MAPS 4 or 5 which would build a new arena S of the Ford Center/and new boulevard.

But we need to do whatever it takes to get the SONICS - I just think upgrading the Ford Center is enough for now; and Im sure Bennett is on board with that plan anyways.

LMAO........:kicking:


I think we should locate it somewhere between Guymon and Bowlegs.

I was thinking we should build that 500 million dollar arena in Slapout. Then the people of Oklahoma City would be slap out of money.:bow:

Giving it up to yourself just kills me.

Giving it up to yourself just kills me.

Pug, I think you need some botox.

What are you implying?

Pugs have wrinkles right?

But wrinkles are BEAUUUUTIFUL!

http://www.doganart.com/resimler/TPortrait/wrinkles.jpg

Okay, sorry for taking us off topic. Back to topic.

AAAAAAAAACK! Okay, you made your point!

Wrinkles on PUGS are BEAUUUUTIFUL!

I think I'm gonna be sick now... :dizzy:

Just having fun!

Just having fun!
This is having fun...
http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/2/puginparadise.jpg

Kicking back on a sunny beach... thinking about that new arena

:backtotop

How adorable!

Grow up.

History has to start somewhere. Why not here?


Oh and by the way:



Yukon? Bolters? What?



Do yourself a favor and do a little research and see what NBA arenas are going for these days. And in case you have been under a rock since 1993, the MAPS projects are funded by a CITY sales tax...not the state.

Do yourself a favor and research the quote function because the Yukon statement you are attributing to me...If you go back and actually read the posts...Not mine...I can see where getting the names NE Oasis and Easy180 confused since they are very similar... Guess you only had the clever comebacks on the other two

The history has to start somewhere statement...Deep man real deep

Do yourself another favor and quit trying to compare Gallagher Iba with the Ford Center...Extensive research won't find anything to make that argument compelling

My apologies for attributing the wrong quote to you.

Statment Deep? yes.

True? yes.

You can't build a legacy in a building if you tear it down every 15 years or so.

If not Gallagher Iba, then how about Madison Square Gardens?

My apologies for attributing the wrong quote to you.

Statment Deep? yes.

True? yes.

You can't build a legacy in a building if you tear it down every 15 years or so.

If not Gallagher Iba, then how about Madison Square Gardens?

Madison Square Garden really has no legacy. They are an abomination because they destroyed an icon (the original Pennsylvania Station).

I don't know enough about NBA arena's - WIll it be a dedicated facility or available for other uses? My vote would be somewhere between McArthur and Yukon close to I-40. That area has enough land available for parking as well as a roomy facility. Close proximity to I-40 would help fans as well as team staff should the Ford Center become the Okahoma Bolters practice facility and team offices be in Bricktown.

I feel like a narcissic(sp) dork quoting myself, but I don't know any other options. My suggestion for a new arena to the west was more due to economics that anything else, I don't know how much land would be required for a first rate facility with room to grow ten years after completion when team owners consider it dated.

Okahoma Bolters was an attempt to start discusson for a name other than Sonics, (too much pressure on Cliff Hudson as well as easy work for late night TV writers) since the team is bolting from Seattle.

The Ford Center should simply be updated as long as that is physically and financially smart to do. Look at Madison Square Garden in NYC. It has been updated numerous times and is a nice NBA area, despite the fact that it is old. On the flip side, look at the arena that causes most of this talk-- Key Arena in Seattle. While it too has been updated numerous times, it cannot be updated to NBA standards physically or in a financially smart way. It would cost too much money. We should concentrate on updating the Ford Center every so often to keep it NBA-worthy. But, we should not be naive enough to think that a new area MIGHT not be needed at some point. When that day comes (maybe 10 years from now, maybe 50 years from now), it should be downtown in/near a district where current hotels and restaurants are within walking distance of it.

If it had to go anywhere other than downtown (which would be my preference), I say knock down Crossroads and put a new arena there. That area could sure use a face lift.

If it had to go anywhere other than downtown (which would be my preference), I say knock down Crossroads and put a new arena there. That area could sure use a face lift.

The city is not able to place an arena where Crossroads is. That will be the home of the new state prison known as Crossroads Correctional Center. That way, the majority of Crossroads customers can feel at home after doing their Christmas shoplifting.

mranderson, a customer is not a shoplifter. Anymore than a self proclaimed expert on everything really is.

The main problem with Madison Square Gardens is lack of land in NYC. In case you weren't familiar but land is scarce and extremely expensive in NYC. That is one of the main reasons for not building a new arena in NYC. It is easier and far cheaper to keep the same site and update it. Oklahoma City nor Seattle is exactly lacking space. To have that much prime land space in NYC to sit vacant (if it were to be torn down and rebuilt on the same site) is just too dang expensive to do in NYC. And the NBA can't wait a few years until it's rebuilt. It's not like Seattle where they can move the location of the arena simultaneously while playing in another arena.

In case you weren't familiar but land is scarce and extremely expensive in NYC.

Thanks for pointing that out for me. I had no clue. No wonder everybody in NYC lives in such little spaces.


Oklahoma City nor Seattle is exactly lacking space.

Exactly why we have such a sprawl problem.


Upgrades--even major ones--can go on during the off-season. At the risk of more sarcasim, I will bring up the example of G-I Arena. During the off-season OSU did a $55 million expansion & upgrade to the arena--doubling its capacity. It's not that difficult.

Or we can just do our arenas like this:


One of the most amazing things about Ise Jingu is that the wooden sanctuaries are rebuilt and rededicated to the enshrined goddesses every 20 years in a process called "shikinen sengu". This tradition began with the first rebuilding in 690, and is still being practiced. The sixty-first rebuilding was completed in 1993, with the sixty-second scheduled for 2013. The Uji Bridge is also rebuilt in this ceremony.

There is an identical plot of ground next to each sanctuary (called 'kodenchi') for the purpose of the rebuilding ceremony. The construction of the new shrine takes about eight years, and at each stage of construction a religious ceremony is held.

Ise-Jingu, the Grand Shrines of Ise - most famous Shinto shrines in Japan (http://www.yamasa.org/japan/english/destinations/mie/ise.html)


Do you want to build history, legacy, and tradition, or do you want to build a shiny new arena every 15 years?

New arena could be on the site of the current Cox Center, assuming a new convention center will be built south of the Ford Center.


And I think we all agree on a new arena, it's just the timing that's in doubt.

And then the second question is whether to include it in MAPS III.

This is the best idea IMO. OKC needs to have its arena still next to Bricktown and surrounded by hotels and restaurants in the CBD. The Cox site is perfect.

The city is not going to build a new arena. You would have to be stupid to think otherwise. I am with soonerliberal on this one. I would rather see the money go to rail or stay in the taxpayers pocket.

The city is not going to build a new arena. You would have to be stupid to think otherwise. I am with soonerliberal on this one. I would rather see the money go to rail or stay in the taxpayers pocket.

You saying the city will never build a new arena Kerry?...All of us have thrown out timeframes which I assume you think are stupid...Care to take a guess as to when a new one may be necessary to appease an NBA owner?

I would think that it's a neccessary evil once we are into the pro team market. We're not used to thinking like this because we've never been in this situation before. Hopefully we realize that the Ford Center isn't the snazziest, but isn't the crappiest either. When we get a team, it will absolutely need some more upgrades done to make it feel less "civic".

I would say that it will probably need to be replaced sometime in the next 10 years though. At that time, we will have a new convention center though, so we could easily bulldoze Cox and start from scratch and yet keep the arenas next to each other. Then in another 15 years or whatever, down comes the Ford Center. It would be easy to just rotate between the two sites because once I-40 is gone, both lots will have plenty room to be world class facilities.

Dont want to "split-hairs", but OKC has been a (using your words) pro team for sometime. The OKC Indians that played at the fairgrounds were pro. So were/are 89ers, Redhawks, Blazers, Cavalary,YardDawgs, etc.

Maybe if you said major league, which is still a stretch, I would agree with you

Dont want to "split-hairs", but OKC has been a (using your words) pro team for sometime. The OKC Indians that played at the fairgrounds were pro. So were/are 89ers, Redhawks, Blazers, Cavalary,YardDawgs, etc.

Maybe if you said major league, which is still a stretch, I would agree with you

:congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats:

Applauding splitting hairs?

:lame::lame::lame::lame::lame::lame::lame::lame:

Easy180 - here is my time frame

Maps I - 1993
Ford Center Constuction Starts - 1999
Ford Center Completed - 2002
Hornets Come - 2005
Hornets Go - 2007
-----
Sonics come - 2008
Start costruction of new arena - 2017
Open new arena - 2019

This timeline means the Sonics will play in the Ford Center for 11 years. This will coincide nicely with MAPS V

So you are correct EASY180, the city will builld a new arena but it won't be for 10 more years. My reference was to people that think the city should start construction in the next 2 years. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

The city is not going to build a new arena. You would have to be stupid to think otherwise. I am with soonerliberal on this one. I would rather see the money go to rail or stay in the taxpayers pocket.

I think it would be stupid to think that an NBA team would locate here without a new arena. Or at least the plans & promises for an NBA quality arena.

I think you would have to put money into upgrades for the FC, but with plans for a new arena.

The Ford Center serves exactly the purpose it was designed for. It was not built as a home to an NBA franchise. As it shouldn't have been. We were nowhere on the radar. Our arena was built, well let's say "economically". But that was cool. It was paid for. It was one the best investments this town has made. It has brought concerts & events that were passing us by.

I'm not sure how far from an engineering standpoint how much further you can take the Ford Center. You need more & larger luxury boxes. Locker rooms, training rooms, etc.

It would be a big step. But, imho, one that HAS to be taken if given the chance.

I think it would be stupid to think that an NBA team would locate here without a new arena. Or at least the plans & promises for an NBA quality arena.

I think you would have to put money into upgrades for the FC, but with plans for a new arena.

The Ford Center serves exactly the purpose it was designed for. It was not built as a home to an NBA franchise. As it shouldn't have been. We were nowhere on the radar. Our arena was built, well let's say "economically". But that was cool. It was paid for. It was one the best investments this town has made. It has brought concerts & events that were passing us by.

I'm not sure how far from an engineering standpoint how much further you can take the Ford Center. You need more & larger luxury boxes. Locker rooms, training rooms, etc.

It would be a big step. But, imho, one that HAS to be taken if given the chance.

We just spent 89 million to build an "NBA quality" arena. We do NOT need another one until this one becomes 15-20 years old.

IYou need more & larger luxury boxes. Locker rooms, training rooms, etc.

Why does the Ford Center need more luxury boxes? We are middle of the pack in the NBA for the number of luxury boxes. I'm not sure what the seating capacity of the Ford Center boxes are but I have been in a luxury box at the St. Pete Times Forum in Tampa and it was much smaller than I expected. My understanding is that the lockers rooms are among the largest in the NBA. Granted the city does need to build a practice facility but that is a given.

The Ford Center should last until 2019.

We just spent 89 million to build an "NBA quality" arena. We do NOT need another one until this one becomes 15-20 years old.

We actually spent 89 mil trying to land an NHL team not NBA if I remember correctly...Think Bennett was going to own the team, but the NHL passed because of our small tv market

Will all work out for the best if we do land NBA...Heck of a lot better exposure and entertainment