View Full Version : New litmus test for GOP candidates: Are you the right kind of Christian?



PUGalicious
03-28-2007, 12:24 PM
From USNews.com (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070328/28dobson.htm):


Focus on the Family founder James Dobson appeared to throw cold water on a possible presidential bid by former Sen. Fred Thompson while praising former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, who is also weighing a presidential run, in a phone interview Tuesday.

"Everyone knows he's conservative and has come out strongly for the things that the pro-family movement stands for," Dobson said of Thompson. "[But] I don't think he's a Christian; at least that's my impression," Dobson added, saying that such an impression would make it difficult for Thompson to connect with the Republican Party's conservative Christian base and win the GOP nomination.

Mark Corallo, a spokesman for Thompson, took issue with Dobson's characterization of the former Tennessee senator. "Thompson is indeed a Christian," he said. "He was baptized into the Church of Christ."

In a follow-up phone conversation, Focus on the Family spokesman Gary Schneeberger stood by Dobson's claim. He said that, while Dobson didn't believe Thompson to be a member of a non-Christian faith, Dobson nevertheless "has never known Thompson to be a committed Christian—someone who talks openly about his faith."

"We use that word—Christian—to refer to people who are evangelical Christians," Schneeberger added. "Dr. Dobson wasn't expressing a personal opinion about his reaction to a Thompson candidacy; he was trying to 'read the tea leaves' about such a possibility."
So, even though Dobson says that "Everyone knows he's conservative and has come out strongly for the things that the pro-family movement stands for", it appears that Thompson is either not Christian enough or not the right kind of Christian to be worthy of Christian votes -- or at least the votes from Dobson's legions.

This brings up another question: Should Christians vote for a candidate simply because they profess they are a Christian, even if that candidate's policies may not reflect Christian ideals or Christ's teachings?

Tim
03-28-2007, 12:40 PM
I love the line that implies that only Evangelicals are considered Christians! So if I understand, Fred Thompson isn't Christian enough, Obama isn't Black enough, Hillary is too masculine...and they say Americans don't have high standards!

Easy180
03-28-2007, 12:46 PM
Think I would stay out of the election spotlight if I were a prominent CC ...Judging by how well their poster boy president is doing running the show

PUGalicious
03-28-2007, 12:51 PM
I love the line that implies that only Evangelicals are considered Christians! So if I understand, Fred Thompson isn't Christian enough, Obama isn't Black enough, Hillary is too masculine...and they say Americans don't have high standards!
Yeah... I wonder if there are any Church of Christ members — or any believer who doesn't subscribe the current definition of "evangelical" — who realize that they aren't really Christians, according to Dobson and Co.

PUGalicious
03-28-2007, 12:53 PM
Think I would stay out of the election spotlight if I were a prominent CC ...Judging by how well their poster boy president is doing running the show
Well, you know... I was gonna say something like that, but I always am told I am a "Bush basher" anytime I express criticism of the president and his policies, so I've been trying to keep my mouth shut when it comes to our "beloved" leader.

Tim
03-28-2007, 01:15 PM
The " " around "beloved" appeared to be a little smart-a**ed. Bush basher!!!

jbrown84
03-28-2007, 01:15 PM
This brings up another question: Should Christians vote for a candidate simply because they profess they are a Christian, even if that candidate's policies may not reflect Christian ideals or Christ's teachings?

Certainly not.


Uh, where in there did he endorse Newt Gingrich--because he certainly isn't a Christian by this standard.


Obviously the Church of Christ is an evangelical denomination. I think what Dobson means is that he doesn't appear to be committed to Christianity. He's Church of Christ like Clinton and Gore are Southern Baptist: only when they need a response to the press after something like this.

PUGalicious
03-28-2007, 02:34 PM
Uh, where in there did he endorse Newt Gingrich--because he certainly isn't a Christian by this standard.
Uh, where did I say or the article say "endorse"? The article reads (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070328/28dobson.htm)...


Focus on the Family founder James Dobson appeared to throw cold water on a possible presidential bid by former Sen. Fred Thompson while praising former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, who is also weighing a presidential run, in a phone interview Tuesday.
and the article (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070328/28dobson.htm) later goes on to say...

While making it clear he was not endorsing any Republican presidential candidate, Dobson, who is considered the most politically powerful evangelical figure in the country, also said that Gingrich was the "brightest guy out there" and "the most articulate politician on the scene today."

Gingrich recently appeared on Dobson's daily Focus on the Family radio program, carried by upward of 2,000 American radio stations, where he made headlines by discussing an extramarital affair he was having even as he pursued impeachment against President Bill Clinton for his handling of the investigation into the Monica Lewinsky affair.

* * *



Obviously the Church of Christ is an evangelical denomination. I think what Dobson means is that he doesn't appear to be committed to Christianity. He's Church of Christ like Clinton and Gore are Southern Baptist: only when they need a response to the press after something like this.
If that's the case, why the need to clarify how they define "Christian"?

"We use that word—Christian—to refer to people who are evangelical Christians"It's not "obvious" by Dobson or his spokeperson's comments that they believe that "the Church of Christ is an evangelical denomination."

But I go back to this point: who is James Dobson to decide if someone is Christian enough to qualify as the right kind of Christian? Is the current president the "right" kind? Is it simply because he says he is a Christian?

jbrown84
03-28-2007, 02:43 PM
You did not quote the part about Gingrich, which is why I was confused.

Dobson is a highly regarded leader of the Christian right, and he certainly has the right to express that he doesn't see any signs of Thompson being a true Christian. Being baptized and even regular attendance does not make one a Christian by any evangelical's definition.

PUGalicious
03-28-2007, 02:49 PM
You did not quote the part about Gingrich, which is why I was confused.
I did not quote the entire article to try to minimize any copyright infringement. That's a reason I included a link to the original source.



Dobson is a highly regarded leader of the Christian right...
I used to respect him until I noticed that partisanship seemed to be a higher priority than Christian mission.




...and he certainly has the right to express that he doesn't see any signs of Thompson being a true Christian...
I'm biting my tongue on this one... (and not very successfully, I might add.)



Being baptized and even regular attendance does not make one a Christian by any evangelical's definition.
Nor does using the right buzzwords while the actions don't line up with it, but that seems to have worked for the last two election cycles.

Easy180
03-28-2007, 02:53 PM
Wonder if he flunked the part on the Dobson mail-out questionnaire that asks if he gets massages from a male escort :pat_head:

That would kill off a potential endorsement in no time

CMSturgeon
03-28-2007, 02:57 PM
Tim, my actual post from the Presidential Race thread:

I was watching the Daily Show over the weekend and there was a columnist on there talking to Jon Stewart. She literally said Obama is not black, is not accepted as being black, but black people are proud of him since he does have dark skin and all. I was like...... what the hell? He lacks blackness because his family didn't experience the troubled times of others. Although he is of African decent, just because his ancestors weren't brought to America as slaves, he is not African American, or black. ..... What the hell? WHAT THE HELL?! I just didn't know there were qualifications. Obviously I know someone from Jamaica is not the same as being African American, etc, etc, but I didn't know it was that in depth.

Oh, and I know someone will say it's not real news so I should discredit the info, but I'm just commenting on something I was surprised to hear. And I believe she wrote that in her New York Times column as well. It was funny when they suggested a new genre for people like him, maybe "nuveau black."

Tim
03-28-2007, 03:14 PM
I saw that episode! I damn near fell out of my chair!The best part is, she was dead serious! Wait a minute...Sturgeon, you are 19 right? My oldest is 19, and I don't think you had the same experience he had reaching that age. Therefore, you are NOT 19. So there.

CMSturgeon
03-28-2007, 04:05 PM
Yeah, I certainly don't feel 19. And certainly don't live the life of a 19 year old. I think I'm really 25 and it's just 'the man' trying to keep me down.

lostnfound
03-29-2007, 07:18 PM
Certainly not.


Uh, where in there did he endorse Newt Gingrich--because he certainly isn't a Christian by this standard.
(That's for sure!)

Obviously the Church of Christ is an evangelical denomination. I think what Dobson means is that he doesn't appear to be committed to Christianity. He's Church of Christ like Clinton and Gore are Southern Baptist: only when they need a response to the press after something like this.

The Church of Christ isn't really an evangelical denomination. It actually claims to be a non-denominational church started to correct the "apostacism" of the Catholic church and the "misguided" attempt of the Reformation. Call them a denomination or categorize them and you've got a fight on your hands! (holy smokes) It was started during a time they call the "Restoration Period." A time when the church was restored to its original intended purpose and form. They would reject any relationship to a current evangelical movement. They are Christian only and adhere to the scriptures as best they can. Yes, this fits an evangelical definition except for the denomination part.

Anyway, I find it interesting that Dobson (who doesn't know Thompson) can judge him. I can't judge him and I am a member of the Church of Christ. (not that I would be inclined or authorized to do such a thing) A much more liberal member mind you. You can't judge a politician by his religious stripes. That's kind of like hiring a preacher because he is a proclaimed practicing politician.

If you want to elect a "conservative", elect a Church of Christer. In some respects you can't find a more conservative church besides the Amish. They don't use instruments in worship, most are pro-life, all believe in full-immersion baptism and certainly no women in leadership positions are allowed. The most conservative churches do not condone dancing, have only one cup for communion that the entire church shares, women can't wear pants or cut their hair. (Now that is the most conservative side and is not a mainstream view). Most CoC churches are much more liberal these days but still adhere to baptism, no instruments, Sunday worship and communion every Sunday (separate cups) and are very evangelistic (not evangelical).

Nevertheless, IF and I do mean IF Thompson subscribes to these views, he is definitely the evangelical choice for President. You can't get much more conservative than this and not drive a horse and buggy. Not MY choice for a President by any means. I just kind of get a chuckle out of a Baptist calling a Church of Christer a non-christian. At the height of Church of
Christ growth, it used to be the other way around!

jbrown84
04-02-2007, 12:08 PM
You seem to be missing the point. Membership in a church does not make one saved. I'm not saying I agree or have the knowledge to have an opinion, but Dobson is stating that Thompson has not shown the "fruit" of a true Christian in his public life, so he doubts his truly being saved. He can be a member, and he can be baptized, but that doesn't save him.

mwmcl
04-04-2007, 09:59 AM
Is Dobson relevant anymore?


I honestly think he is more concerned about America than the Body of Christ. I don't know for certain but I would venture to guess that Dobson is one of those type of people that would say that America is important to the Body of Christ and that America needs to be a Christian nation (much like Pat Robertson).

I a Christian that is diametrically opposed to most of James Dobson's beliefs.

southokie
04-04-2007, 01:36 PM
Many people don't know that Dobson is himself a "Church of Christ" member, and indeed believe's that one can lose their salvation...

Also, didn't Newt Gengrich cheat on his wife? That's pretty Christian of him.

jbrown84
04-04-2007, 02:20 PM
Like I said above, I'm surprised Dobson would endorse such a slimeball as Gingrich.

mwmcl
04-04-2007, 02:23 PM
I liked Dobson more when he stayed out of politics. Now he is basically a Shawn Hannity... a Rush Limbaugh at best

southokie
04-04-2007, 02:53 PM
He joined the ranks of the ever-so-popular and stalworth examples of Christendom, Falwell, Robinson, and Pastor Ted Haggard.

PUGalicious
04-04-2007, 05:33 PM
Many people don't know that Dobson is himself a "Church of Christ" member...

Many people don't know it because it's not true. Dobson is a member of the Church of the Nazarene (http://www.adherents.com/people/pd/James_Dobson.html).

southokie
04-04-2007, 08:29 PM
You are correct. I was wrong. I know that he believes that one can lose their salvation, like some of the Church of Christ off shoots.

Easy180
06-07-2007, 07:32 AM
It is getting pretty ridiculous folks and I predict it will only get worse with each passing election... I watched a little of a Dem debate on CNN that only covered each candidate's faith...Even though it was annoying as heck (Only because they were obviously playing to the crowd with every single answer) it was funny seeing each one come out and try and one up the previous one

Paraphrasing here just a little...Well how many times did Obama say he prayed a day?...3....Only three?...Shoot I normally pray 5 to 6 times a day (Applause)\

God hits the campaign trail

Loyalty isn't really up there in the book of political virtues. Just ask President Bush, who was mentioned a scant seven times in last night's Republican debate.

But even though politicians have never been the most loyal bunch, there's one guy they always seem to want in their corner. Someone whose poll numbers are so consistently stellar, it's almost a miracle. Someone who never makes mistakes and whose actions are always fraught with purpose and meaning. I'm talking about God. He was mentioned a whopping 21 times by the Republican candidates last night ... and I'm not even counting "God bless yous" and "I hope to Gods."

This week, the campaign trail turned into an old-fashioned camp meeting, with Republicans and Democrats alike declaring Jesus Christ as their personal savior.

At the Sojourners Conference on Monday, Hillary Clinton and John Edwards gave deeply personal testimonies of how the Lord saw them through their darkest hours. At last night's Republican debate, Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, an ordained Baptist minister, delivered a moving sermon on the glory of creation. John McCain spoke about the "hand of God" moving in the world today. And Mitt Romney, the only Mormon in the contest, said no man would tear him from his church.

What are these people running for, anyway?

This year, possibly more than any other in modern American politics, presidential candidates of both parties are posting their faith credentials right alongside their policy positions.

George W. Bush and Karl Rove have a lot to do with it. They proved that millions of Americans are very comfortable hearing their leaders speak openly about faith. In 2004, 1 out of 4 voters was a white evangelical and they voted overwhelmingly for Bush. The current crop of Republicans is fighting hard to win over that powerful coalition.

The Democrats, meanwhile, are desperate to shake-off their image as a party of secular elitists. In the 2006 Congressional elections, a number of conservative, anti-abortion Democrats proudly declared their faith and scored some impressive victories.

Maybe that's why this week feels a little like Church Chat.

What do you think? Do you like to hear political candidates discuss their religious beliefs? Does it give you a window into the kind of president they would be?


-- By Claire Brinberg, CNN Producer