When will some final designs come out for us to see what the place is going to look like? I think this is a very cool project. I agree that besides some great things done on the inside, doing some cosmetics to this building could add a lot to the skyline. This is a building that if done correctly, would look awesome, especially at night. It kind of gets lost in the shuffle now and doesn't get noticed much as is. I personally would love, love to see this and the Cotter Ranch Tower both do some things to not only improve the inside but on the outside to really once again make its presence known and the skyline would be much improved with that. Anyone have any ideas of what they might do or what would look great? Maybe photo shop the building and add in some cool ideas for both these buildings. If it upsets someone to include the CRT, than they could put that on that thread as well.

I agree, an outline of the spire and steps of the tower could do wonders to modernize the skyline. I'd also like to see the beacon return and actually spin, ala the Williams tower (or whatever it's called now) in suburban Houston.

I honestly think okc really just needs aviation beacons on its tallest buildings to allow the skyline to pop a little. Not everything needs to be crowned with lighting, but beacons do wonders with place-making even if the rest of the tower is dark.

It would be nice if the existing alley to the south of FNC could be used to access the parking garage.

hm, good point. I wasn't aware that the alley existed.

Our family used the 'Great Banking Hall' when the First National Bank was there which later became First Interstate (L.A.) & Boatman's (STL). The art décor reminds me of a Catholic Cathedral.

Glad to hear that someone is going to do something with this property. I will miss the Golden Dragon (Chinese Restaurant $6 lunch buffet all you can eat) on ground level from the south profile Broadway entrance.

Hopefully Golden Dragon will get to move into the new area? The article that was linked earlier said there would be an opportunity for current leasers to move into the new area once it's finished. I'm not a big fan of their lunch buffet, but their breakfast is one of my favorites in the city - the breakfast bagels are delicious.

There always seems to be a fly in the ointment for this building.

Downtown Oklahoma City First National Center sale is in limbo | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/downtown-oklahoma-city-first-national-center-sale-is-in-limbo/article/5373399)


A potential sale of downtown Oklahoma City’s First National Center could be thrown into question by a New York man who claims he is owed $6 million by former building owner Aaron Yashouafar and Yashouafar’s brother.

New York resident Howard Abselet is attempting to file a lien on First National Center, which would allow him to collect proceeds from any sale of the property.

So, the suit claims Yashouafar still has some sort of ownership interest in FNC and that a $6 million lien should be placed on the property because Yash screwed this guy in another deal.

Sigh.

It's not completely surprising because it was never clear how and why FNC was suddenly transferred to Neman (the ostensible new owner) who I knew to be a friend of Yashouafar, which I wrote about in a previous post.

If the lien is filed due to Yashouafar's ownership, this is completely at the feet of the bankruptcy court which allowed him to stall time after time and then let him completely off the hook rather than transferring ownership to the bank, which desperately wanted it back.

Also, Yashouafar could face fraud charges for not disclosing his remaining interest in the property to the court / bank.

I'm assuming this means the sale will definitely not close by the end of the year like was originally hoped?

I'm sure it complicates thing but remember, they are just attempting to file a lien -- hasn't happened yet, and the court will have to rule.

Also, this would come out of the pocket of the Neman/Yashouafar if and when it was filed. Would have to be paid out of the proceeds of the sale unless the new owners agreed to assume the debt.

This note should be appearing now or very soon atop the story today. It will also run in the newspaper:
A story that appeared on page C1 Saturday contained incorrect information about the ownership of the First National Center in downtown Oklahoma City. The property has been held since 2012 by the Los Angeles-based Neman family.
- Steve Lackmeyer and Brianna Bailey

This note should be appearing now or very soon atop the story today. It will also run in the newspaper:
A story that appeared on page C1 Saturday contained incorrect information about the ownership of the First National Center in downtown Oklahoma City. The property has been held since 2012 by the Los Angeles-based Neman family.
- Steve Lackmeyer and Brianna Bailey

So, Yashouafar definitely does not have any sort of ownership interest?

If so, no way could a lien be granted.

So, Yashouafar definitely does not have any sort of ownership interest?

If so, no way could a lien be granted.

Given how long proceedings have dragged on, it seems odd they did not file this at least months ago (if not years ago)

Didn't the same thing happen to the Skirvin?

I'm shocked that shady business people are associated with other shady people - shocked I tell you.

So, the suit claims Yashouafar still has some sort of ownership interest in FNC and that a $6 million lien should be placed on the property because Yash screwed this guy in another deal.

Sigh.

It's not completely surprising because it was never clear how and why FNC was suddenly transferred to Neman (the ostensible new owner) who I knew to be a friend of Yashouafar, which I wrote about in a previous post.

If the lien is filed due to Yashouafar's ownership, this is completely at the feet of the bankruptcy court which allowed him to stall time after time and then let him completely off the hook rather than transferring ownership to the bank, which desperately wanted it back.

Also, Yashouafar could face fraud charges for not disclosing his remaining interest in the property to the court / bank.

That's why I asked. I think a lot of this board has gotten used to writing off my thoughts because they're so tired of hearing from me (lol)


So the buyer then is or isn't connected to Yash?

i was going to say the same thing, why wait so long to file for a lien? Only when a deal is in place do we hear from him/them. .... Shady.

New story from Steve today.

It doesn't say anything new.

Just that this group is "trying" to file a lien.

The headline says the property has hit a "roadblock" and the previous one said the sale is in "limbo". Neither of those statements at the time they were published were true.


If, in fact, the courts allow the lien then that could cause a problem. But that hasn't happened yet and even if it does there is nothing in either article that says with certainty the pending sale would be affected.

So both articles seemed very negative regarding this. This morning's mentioned the possibility of a "very unhappy" ending. Are you more optimistic about this deal than Steve is? When do you think we should know for sure and see concrete plans as to what is in store for the future of this building?

From the last article:


It’s unknown whether such a filing could derail a pending sale with an unidentified California buyer who already has met with city officials about obtaining public assistance in redeveloping the 1-million-square-foot complex.

That doesn't match the headlines or this sub-head:


Legal issues again are preventing potential redevelopment of First National Center, downtown OKC’s languishing landmark at Park and Robinson.


Someone is attempting to file a lien. That's all we know. Anyone can attempt to file a lien but a court has to grant it, which hasn't happened yet.

And even if filed, there is no way to know at this point the potential impact on the pending sale.

Oklahoma City's First National Center set to go vacant as sale is clouded by lien filing | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/5380108)

Fuuuuuuudge.

Someone is attempting to file a lien. That's all we know. Anyone can attempt to file a lien but a court has to grant it, which hasn't happened yet.

And even if filed, there is no way to know at this point the potential impact on the pending sale.

I guess we know now.

So after reading the article I came to the conclusion that this was not good for the sale. Not happy about this not one bit I am.

Steve does such a great job of providing the inside scoop of what's going on downtown... I greatly admire his in-depth work. It's really a shame he doesn't post much here anymore

Get ready to start hearing the term "functionally obsolete"...

Yep. I've said it before here and been shouted down for my trouble, but expect to hear the demolition drumbeat start. For some rubble-rousers no old building is off-limits.

So what happens next? Is this ever going to be renovated?

So what happens next? Is this ever going to be renovated?

It will probably sit vacant for at least a year and maybe a whole lot longer. I wouldn't immediately start getting scared about it being demolished since it is a higher profile building that would face great opposition to that and it wouldn't be nearly as cheap to demolish it as the Stage Center.

Forgive my lack of knowledge of real property law, but if this gets drawn out, could the city use eminent domain to take over the property? It would probably take a lose interpretation of the laws regarding eminent domain, but it has certainly been used for much less just causes. Being in control of first national would probably be a huge liability but I would imagine they could find something to do with it or a willing buyer (though I don't know the rules about flipping condemned property). I know a city somewhere used eminent domain to condem a bunch of homes then flipped it to a company to develop a mall, but that created an uproar.

Im still hoping the city ends up taking over for a Skirvin-type project. It's too much of an icon to OKC to let anyone demo it. Unless someone is willing to dump tens of millions in the thing and keep it LONG term, its just not going to ever get off the ground. And if a lien is being filed, then it's even less likely to happen. Someone like the city is going to have to take the place in order for it to keep from falling more and more into disrepair.

PhiAlpha - the same thing happened in MWC with Town Center. The residents that sued the city over how the hospital authority became a arm of the city for the project ended up winning. By then, almost the entire masterplan had been built so the homes were long gone. And really, MWC still won because they got a huge economic boom out of it. So I guess it depends on how you define "win".

Forgive my lack of knowledge of real property law, but if this gets drawn out, could the city use eminent domain to take over the property? It would probably take a lose interpretation of the laws regarding eminent domain, but it has certainly been used for much less just causes. Being in control of first national would probably be a huge liability but I would imagine they could find something to do with it or a willing buyer (though I don't know the rules about flipping condemned property). I know a city somewhere used eminent domain to condem a bunch of homes then flipped it to a company to develop a mall, but that created an uproar.

I think the issue right now is that it hasn't been determined who all owns the building. The city would run into the same issue the potential buyer did. That's my guess anyway. Looks like were just going to wait for the legal process to finish before we can start looking toward the future for this building.

Does Cafe 7 get to stay or will it have to close?

This is extremely disappointing news. Why is it so often in this town the most exciting projects end up being extremely scaled back or cancelled or in major legal disputes that take many years to work out? Now we are talking demolition of this treasure? If First National Center gets demolished for anything less than a 1000+ ft supertall, I will lose all hope in OKC ever having a vibrant, urban downtown that can pull its weight and compete with its peers across the country.

this makes me very sad

No one is actually talking about demolition of FNC.

That banking hall is one of the few places in OKC that can really make a person say "wow." I was so excited about it being restored as a hotel and residential.

What will it take to save this? In my opinion this may even be worth putting to a vote as a MAPS tax.

This is extremely disappointing news. Why is it so often in this town the most exciting projects end up being extremely scaled back or cancelled or in major legal disputes that take many years to work out? Now we are talking demolition of this treasure? If First National Center gets demolished for anything less than a 1000+ ft supertall, I will lose all hope in OKC ever having a vibrant, urban downtown that can pull its weight and compete with its peers across the country.

The talk of demolishing it though is more just taking the discussion about the Preftakes block to it's most extreme it could get in OKC, verses any real chance it will be demolished from this.

https://twitter.com/stevelackmeyer

Steve has put out a string of tweets assuring that demolition is not even a remote possibility. Good news there.

Personally I think First National is important enough that revitalizing it should be worthy of public subsidy if it comes to that.

Steve also maintained -- as recently as two months ago -- that the old Hotel Black and bus station were safe.

There was certainly a time with the Preftakes block where no one would have imagined they would just bulldoze all 9 buildings.

Remember, there was serious talk about demolishing the Skirvin. If history has taught us anything, it's that absolutely no building is safe from the wrecking ball in OKC and that big business always ALWAYS gets what it wants.

That banking hall is one of the few places in OKC that can really make a person say "wow." I was so excited about it being restored as a hotel and residential.

What will it take to save this? In my opinion this may even be worth putting to a vote as a MAPS tax.

That would take another 10 years (or more) before it could re-open. It's too bad all of the tax money for the downtown TIF that could be collected from Clayco won't be available.

Steve also maintained -- as recently as two months ago -- that the old Hotel Black and bus station were safe.

There was certainly a time with the Preftakes block where no one would have imagined they would just bulldoze all 9 buildings.

Remember, there was serious talk about demolishing the Skirvin. If history has taught us anything, it's that absolutely no building is safe from the wrecking ball in OKC and that big business always ALWAYS gets what it wants.

Do you think given the profile of FNC that there would be enough outcry over its possible demolition to save it? Do you think the city would step in if it came to that? Maybe it's just me, but I see FNC as a much bigger deal than a bus station, motor hotel, and a few two story buildings. A lot of people could care less about the buildings on the Preftakes block but do care about FNC. It's a bigger deal than even the Skirvin given its history and it's prominence in the skyline.

I am just trying to find some way to be positive here.

I don't think it will be demolished but I would never state emphatically it will never happen.

Frankly, being lulled into that assumption on the Preftakes block has only helped to grease the skids of demolition because the news was so out of left field with so little time for action.

Do you think given the profile of FNC that there would be enough outcry over its possible demolition to save it? Do you think the city would step in if it came to that? Maybe it's just me, but I see FNC as a much bigger deal than a bus station, motor hotel, and a few two story buildings.

You have to get your mind right. It doesn't matter what the people want, it only matters what 4 or 5 specific people want. If OKC's power brokers want it gone - it will be gone with no questions asked, and of course, the usual OKCTalk sycophants will be here playing their role. Just look at the last 3 years: Stage Center, Sandridge Commons - where 4 buildings, including the first home of the State Legislature were cleared for some grass and "improved sightlines", the buildings in Central Park, and the Preftakes Block. It doesn't matter what the people want, it only matters what 4 or 5 specific people want.

You have to get your mind right. It doesn't matter what the people want, it only matters what 4 or 5 specific people want. If OKC's power brokers want it gone - it will be gone with no questions asked, and of course, the usual OKCTalk sycophants will be here playing their role. Just look at the last 3 years: Stage Center, Sandridge Commons - where 4 buildings, including the first home of the State Legislature were cleared for some grass and "improved sightlines", the buildings in Central Park, and the Preftakes Block. It doesn't matter what the people want, it only matters what 4 or 5 specific people want.

stop it. The huge majority of people don't care. And there are just as many that are fine with the demo as there as those that want to save it.


And this is pretty much the same for most buildings. The 499 Sheridan the big majority that know about it are totally fine with the demo

You have to get your mind right. It doesn't matter what the people want, it only matters what 4 or 5 specific people want. If OKC's power brokers want it gone - it will be gone with no questions asked, and of course, the usual OKCTalk sycophants will be here playing their role. Just look at the last 3 years: Stage Center, Sandridge Commons - where 4 buildings, including the first home of the State Legislature were cleared for some grass and "improved sightlines", the buildings in Central Park, and the Preftakes Block. It doesn't matter what the people want, it only matters what 4 or 5 specific people want.

Filed under- " The Way Things Really Are".

The 499 Sheridan the big majority that know about it are totally fine with the demo

Have you counted all the people?

This is a fact. There are some buildings only preservationists and downtown enthusiasts are passionate about and others that every Oklahoman would get behind saving. I am sure First National would fall under the latter.

This is a fact. There are some buildings only preservationists and downtown enthusiasts are passionate about and others that every Oklahoman would get behind saving. I am sure First National would fall under the latter.

Just wondering, on what basis do you make this assumption?

Do you think given the profile of FNC that there would be enough outcry over its possible demolition to save it? Do you think the city would step in if it came to that? Maybe it's just me, but I see FNC as a much bigger deal than a bus station, motor hotel, and a few two story buildings. A lot of people could care less about the buildings on the Preftakes block but do care about FNC. It's a bigger deal than even the Skirvin given its history and it's prominence in the skyline.

I am just trying to find some way to be positive here.

As of right now, all we know is that FNC is in legal purgatory. Too early for the city to talk about saving something that hasn't even been threatened yet. I sometimes wonder why some of you guys waste time participating in this board if your that pessimistic and jump to the worse possible conclusion. Some make it sound like their are a herd of developers who just heard the news the deal fell through and their racing toward the building with wreaking balls.

Have you counted all the people?

Have you. It is called reality. The huge majority don't care either way and don't know about it. Those that know mostly dont care. And the vocal minority thinks they should have it their way.

After reading Steve's tweets I'm going to have to weigh in on trusting him on this issue. I don't believe for an instant the city would let a demolition happen.

And this is pretty much the same for most buildings. The 499 Sheridan the big majority that know about it are totally fine with the demo

If you want to invoke the public, then there would have to a full campaign with issues fully vetted from both the pro and con side, then a vote. Just like MAPS.

You could also claim most people wouldn't care if you put a strip club next in the middle of a particular neighborhood, but that's not how these decisions are made, so saying that most people would not vote against something isn't even a valid point IMO.

[QUOTE=Just the facts;854849]Just wondering, on what basis do you make this assumption?[/QUO

common sense?

If you want to invoke the public, then there would have to a full campaign with issues fully vetted from both the pro and con side, then a vote. Just like MAPS.

You could also claim most people wouldn't care if you put a strip club next in the middle of a particular neighborhood, but that's not how these decisions are made, so saying that most people would not vote against something isn't even a valid point IMO.

The public is already involved. They elected the council that approved the appointment of the ddrc. And now they can comment at the public hearing.

Just wondering, on what basis do you make this assumption?

Let's look...what do you think means more to the people of OKC?

This

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/f/0f/f0fb0552-bf7b-11e3-9be3-001a4bcf6878/534490ef95d3b.image.jpg

OR

http://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/w300-c_b6215e14f563d08f900e0c3307e77ea0.jpg

The public is involved by representative officials, not directly.

And those officials are put in a terrible position: Either approve this awesome new pro-business project as is or be cast out as an obstructionist.

It's not a coincidence that absolutely zero demolitions have been stopped by the representatives on the various committees and City Council.

I would also add that the public isn't privy to the information presented to the council in advance of their meetings and it always comes from a small group who only present from their own biased perspective. Biased in the sense it is THEIR plan.

They come with a fully formed plan and it's presented in a binary fashion: yes or no. The council does not participate in the process and in any meaningful way; they are just asked to vote on something that is already negotiated.

This is not conjecture on my part; I've confirmed that this is exactly how these things work.


So, claiming "most the people are fine with the demolitions" is irrelevant because we are not putting this to a public vote. If we were to do that, information would have to presented very differently before there was any sort of decision made.

The public is already involved. They elected the council that approved the appointment of the ddrc. And now they can comment at the public hearing.

And yet at the DDRC meeting in December it was a member of this board, aka "the vocal minority," who had his personal concerns and solution aired by a member of the committee.

BoulderSooner is right to a certain degree. There are a lot of people who don't care about anything. You could even bulldoze the bombing memorial and put in a Wal-Mart supercenter and I'm sure there are people in this city who would be totally fine with that. I'm sure there are a lot of people who wouldn't care one bit if you tore down First National. BoulderSooner is one of them.

It doesn't mean that those people have an opinion that is worth anything. No offense, Boulder.

BoulderSooner is right to a certain degree. There are a lot of people who don't care about anything. You could even bulldoze the bombing memorial and put in a Wal-Mart supercenter and I'm sure there are people in this city who would be totally fine with that. I'm sure there are a lot of people who wouldn't care one bit if you tore down First National. BoulderSooner is one of them.

It doesn't mean that those people have an opinion that is worth anything. No offense, Boulder.

I am sure far more people care about the bombing memorial than care about Union Bus Station. The same would go for First National Center. There are some people that wouldn't care if it was demolished but for many it would be an outrage.