View Full Version : Crossings $15.5 million expansion



metro
03-15-2007, 02:32 PM
Big fish
One of the metro’s largest churches is bucking the multisite trend, staying put and adding on, to the tune of $15.5 million. ‘We can’t duplicate what we do here,’ the senior pastor says.
Wednesday, March 14, 2007
Greg Horton
One of Oklahoma City’s largest churches is making plans to add 74,000 square feet of additional space and 11 acres at an estimated cost of $15.5 million.

Crossings Community Church, a Church of God congregation in northwest Oklahoma City, recently unveiled plans for three major construction projects at its 70-acre campus. The current facility is 250,000 square feet, and Senior Pastor Marty Grubbs said the congregation with weekly attendance of 4,700 has outgrown the space.

Grubbs said the three projects — a 500-seat chapel, a second gym and an expanded atrium for social events — would allow Crossings to “take better care of our people.” Grubbs estimated that 7,500 people attend Crossings on a regular basis and probably consider it their home church.

“The current average attendance on Sunday morning is 4,383 for all of 2007 thus far,” Grubbs said. “Our highest Sunday attendance has been 4,700 and our lowest just over 4,000.”

Those numbers make Crossings one of the five largest churches in Oklahoma City. According to figures supplied by the Hartford Institute for Religion Research, only four churches in the Oklahoma City area, including Edmond and Norman, have regular, weekly attendance larger than Crossings.

LifeChurch.tv in Edmond is the largest in Oklahoma, but unlike Crossings, its services and 17,000 members are scattered across six campuses in the state, including an “Internet campus.”

Grubbs said Crossings has intentionally not adopted the multiple campus approach. “We can’t duplicate what we do here,” Grubbs said. “We want to fully develop this campus so that we can better minister to more people. I can duplicate a worship service, but there has to be more to the church than a worship service and more than my face plastered on screens all over the city. I don’t feel the need to put my face on a screen in another quadrant of the city. There are already good churches in other areas of the city.”

Grubbs insisted that his statements aren’t directed at LifeChurch.tv’s pastor Craig Groeschel’s method of broadcasting his image to campuses in Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas and Arizona. Nor does he want his words construed as a “slap in the face” to Groeschel.

“I’m just a local guy,” Grubbs said. “I’m trying to keep this thing from being about more than me. I know multicampus is a trendy thing to do right now, but it’s not something we’re going to do. People can get to our campus from anywhere in Oklahoma City in 20 (to) 30 minutes.”

The multicampus tactic is one of the fastest growing methods of church planting in Christian circles right now. Using satellite technology and a “church in a box” approach, large churches can open a new campus for approximately $5 million, much cheaper than average facility costs, and increase their reach and influence far beyond their geographical context.

Grubbs is aware of the critics who have insisted going multisite would be a more financially responsible way to do things, and he is aware that some criticize the amount of money the church is preparing to spend, as well as the current size and original facility costs.

“We have about $25 million in this facility right now,” Grubbs said. “Look, I drive down Portland (Avenue); I know what this church looks like. But building this facility has enabled us to reach more people and give away more money to good causes. If we were 10 churches of 500 people, no one would notice, and we wouldn’t be able to do for the community what we currently do.”

Grubbs said Crossings’ mission budget — which includes benevolent ministries like food, clothing and medical care for needy families — is $2 million per year. That amount is roughly 20 percent of Crossings’ budget, a percentage that is more than twice the national average for churches.

“This is money that we’re asking people to give over and above current giving,” Grubbs said. “We’re not taking on any debt, we’re not reducing current missions giving, and we’re going to build incrementally as the funds and pledges are available. Our first priority is the chapel.”

The 28,000-square-foot chapel, which includes a 90-foot-tall “Crosstower,” will be used for weddings, funerals and additional worship services. The church’s current 3,200-seat sanctuary is overwhelming for small weddings and funerals. Grubbs said the church would like to provide a place where people can celebrate, mourn or worship in a more intimate setting.

The second gym will be used for the church’s expanding sports program, including a growing outreach and sports league for physically challenged young people. The money also will purchase 11 acres southeast of the campus for later development.

Grubbs said the additions will allow Crossings to continue its mission as one church and keep the emphasis off personality.


“I am determined to not let our church become like many other large ‘megachurch’ situations,” Grubbs said, “which are often all about a very visible, so-called powerful and charismatic pastor/leader. The community may agree or disagree with what we are doing, but at least we stand out as a church, a congregation, and not a ‘superstar’ pastor who is the face of the church.”

Easy180
03-15-2007, 02:41 PM
Started to get a little huffy until I read this

Grubbs said Crossings’ mission budget — which includes benevolent ministries like food, clothing and medical care for needy families — is $2 million per year. That amount is roughly 20 percent of Crossings’ budget, a percentage that is more than twice the national average for churches.

Nice to know they are going over and above what most other churches give back..Very refreshing in today's times

metro
03-15-2007, 03:43 PM
Not to get off topic too much, but how does just a few improvements to the existing building and constructing a new gym and chapel cost $15.5 million. You can get a pretty impressive structure for that much. Not trying to be picky, but that sure seems high to me for what they are adding. But I'm not an expert at construction costs either.

Karried
03-15-2007, 04:49 PM
The money also will purchase 11 acres southeast of the campus for later development.



Prime real estate.

74,000 square feet of additional space .... but I agree, that's a lot of money

metro
03-15-2007, 04:54 PM
I agree with you Karried. But to me that still sounds aweful high, even on prime real estate. It's still alot of farmland over there even though that is constantly changing. I drive by it at least once a week. That equates to 1.4 million an acre developed. Extremely high. Put's the development side at 210 a sq. ft. A little higher than normal but I can halfway understand that point, although its high for a church. Just was curious that all, not trying to judge or anything so no one blow my post out of proportion, just seemed high price for the addition, that's all.

BaconCheeseburgerDeluxe
03-15-2007, 11:37 PM
I just have to sit shake my head in disgust over the number of multimillion dollar churches we have in the city. These places call themselves churches but they are churches only in name. In reality, they are merely Sunday morning social clubs for suburbanites.

Keith
03-16-2007, 05:12 AM
I just have to sit shake my head in disgust over the number of multimillion dollar churches we have in the city. These places call themselves churches but they are churches only in name. In reality, they are merely Sunday morning social clubs for suburbanites.
Do you know this for a fact, or are you just assuming? Have you ever been in one and experienced a worship service?

Patrick
03-17-2007, 11:12 AM
I have to give Crossings a past on the back. They offer tons of ministries to people in need, and have never seen dollar signs in any of it. You need something, Crossings is there to meet that need. You need athletic events, they have it. You need counseling ministries, Crossings is there. You want to serve in area schools, Crossings has adopted several inner city schools. Crossings offers a free medical clinic at NW 36th and May Ave. Crossings invests hugely in our community.

I think the 15.5 million they're going to spend will only help reach our community more, by offering more sports events, to get people in the building to hear the word of God. A chapel to be used by the community for weddings and funerals, regardless of whether you're a member there or not.

The list goes on and on. You can go to their website at crossingsokc.org and get lost in all of the ministries they offer to OKC.

Patrick
03-17-2007, 11:15 AM
And the reason the price is so much, si because Crossings puts a lot of importance on making their building look reverent before God. Sure, they could go a lot cheaper building a large metal barn like LifeChurch did, but there's no character there. Anyone can build a large Wal-Mart like warehouse and call it a church.

I don't look down uon churches that locate in old Wal-Marts or build cheap buildings.

But, if their church has the money to build a nice facility, why not.

Patrick
03-17-2007, 11:16 AM
And I agree about not going with the multi-site concept. When you start developing multiple campuses, it's almost as if you're farming out franchises. Through franchises you lose a lot of what the original church was all about, and it's tough to control quality measures.

My church, Northwest Baptist Church, has a north campus, and it's one thing I've actually disagreed with. Our north campus is located on Council Rd. and NW Expressway in the Express Events Center. I would've rather seen us help out a nearby sister church like Highland Hills Baptist or Surrey Hills Baptist, then locate right within their community and try to compete with them.

metro
03-17-2007, 07:05 PM
That is one of the most unbiblical statements I've ever heard.


And the reason the price is so much, si because Crossings puts a lot of importance on making their building look reverent before God.



And I agree about not going with the multi-site concept. When you start developing multiple campuses, it's almost as if you're farming out franchises. Through franchises you lose a lot of what the original church was all about, and it's tough to control quality measures.

My church, Northwest Baptist Church, has a north campus, and it's one thing I've actually disagreed with. Our north campus is located on Council Rd. and NW Expressway in the Express Events Center. I would've rather seen us help out a nearby sister church like Highland Hills Baptist or Surrey Hills Baptist, then locate right within their community and try to compete with them.

NW Baptist Church also does a lot of good for the community and has some excellent inner city programs going on. I'm not surprised about your tone towards lifechurch.tv considering your pastor was on staff at lifechurch.tv for 7 years and left on a bitter note. I love the guy but every time I talk to him he's bashing lifechurch. Not what you think a pastor should be doing. That's why life has been the most successful in the country with the multi-site, because they learned how to control quality and effectiveness measures. Why can't we all just get along, we're on the same team no matter the church name on the billboard.

Patrick
03-17-2007, 07:21 PM
Our senior pastor was never on staff at Life Church. We actually got him from a church from Texas.

I'm guessing you're referring to Doug McLerran, our Minister of Education. He built up a nice program at LifeChurch, only for LifeChurch to turn right around and fire him. LifeChurch didn't even give him a 2 week notice or anything. No severence package. He was sent packing. Not even a thank you for your 7 years of service! It was basically a "you're outta here" approach.

I have no problem with Life Church, but their dealings with Doug were inappropriate, IMO.

metro
03-18-2007, 10:22 PM
Okay, well my apologies, I didn't know his title was Minister of Education. I was told by him and others he was senior pastor and when I've called the church's main line several time, it usually mention's pastor Doug McLerran. I can't vouch for how he was treated at lifechurch because I'm not on staff and was not involved. I do know the hearts of many of the lifechurch staff and know that is very much not like them. Perhaps there was another side of the story we are not hearing??

PUGalicious
03-19-2007, 04:25 AM
This thread makes Jesus cry...

mwmcl
03-21-2007, 07:33 AM
Back to topic...

Crossings is maybe the only MegaChurch in the City (maybe nationally) that I would ever attend. They have figured out how to really help a lot of people. Just one example of the top of my head... they have figured out how to really help and assist parents of special needs children.

And they really do support a lot of missionaries and do a lot of missions work. To me, that is one of the biggest benchmarks of success for a church. "Are you doing the things that Jesus said to do... not figurateively or theoretically, but literally"

But in the end, it's going to be 15.5 Million and that is a lot of coin.

metro
03-21-2007, 08:26 AM
mwmcl, just curious, have you researched extensively on what other mega-churches are doing locally, let alone nationally. Most I know invest just as heavily in the community with benovolence and helping the poor, needy, etc as well as support missions very extensively. I know my church, lifechurch.tv, is very heavily missions oriented and requires members to go on a mission trip each year if at all possible, we have many missions trips each month as well as support missionaries across the world, including several of my friends who are missionaries in China.

mwmcl
03-21-2007, 09:08 AM
mwmcl, just curious, have you researched extensively on what other mega-churches are doing locally, let alone nationally. Most I know invest just as heavily in the community with benovolence and helping the poor, needy, etc as well as support missions very extensively. I know my church, lifechurch.tv, is very heavily missions oriented and requires members to go on a mission trip each year if at all possible, we have many missions trips each month as well as support missionaries across the world, including several of my friends who are missionaries in China.

Not sure why I'm getting called out since all I did was praise Crossings and what it does in the community. As for having done the research on a local and national scale... I'll just let my post speak for itself... until my research paper is published

Martin
03-21-2007, 09:18 AM
i'm just curious about any church that 'requires' its members to go on mission trips once per year. -M

metro
03-21-2007, 09:28 AM
Not sure why I'm getting called out since all I did was praise Crossings and what it does in the community. As for having done the research on a local and national scale... I'll just let my post speak for itself... until my research paper is published

mwmcl, I called you out because you said Crossings would be the only mega-church you'd attend locally and probably nationally because of what they do. thus indirectly leaving one to possibly question that you don't think other mega churches do just as much or more as Crossings does. Otherwise, why would you limit it to Crossings? just curious

mwmcl
03-21-2007, 09:38 AM
mwmcl, I called you out because you said Crossings would be the only mega-church you'd attend locally and probably nationally because of what they do. thus indirectly leaving one to possibly question that you don't think other mega churches do just as much or more as Crossings does. Otherwise, why would you limit it to Crossings? just curious

I personally like much of what I know and have experienced at Crossings. I personally do not like much of what I know and have experienced at other OKC Mega-Churches. I have not had the dreadful opportunity to visit and spend time in every Mega-Church in America but I have come to conclusions based on their TV shows, websites and books. If those products do not accurately depict life in those churches then that can not be the fault of the consumer, but the fault of the producer.

I think you want me to say something about LifeChurch.tv
I have attended in the past. I have friends and close family members that call that church home. I do have a foundation for which my comments and opinions are based. Having said that, I have no intention to visit a LifeChurch in the immediate or distant future. Does that satisfy your craving?

metro
03-21-2007, 09:51 AM
Actually mwmcl, I don't want you to single out lifechurch.tv but it often does and most like to do so for the sake of arguing with me. so basically do you think that churches should be the scapegoat and us invididuals shouldn't take the blame? just wanted to clarify. That is the real problem wrong with America today, this post-modern mindset of whatever sounds right to us. We want to blame someone else and not take the blame or responsibility.

PUGalicious
03-21-2007, 09:54 AM
Pot calling the kettle black?

mwmcl
03-21-2007, 10:03 AM
Actually mwmcl, I don't want you to single out lifechurch.tv but it often does and most like to do so for the sake of arguing with me. so basically do you think that churches should be the scapegoat and us invididuals shouldn't take the blame? just wanted to clarify. That is the real problem wrong with America today, this post-modern mindset of whatever sounds right to us. We want to blame someone else and not take the blame or responsibility.

The problem is American Christians have no idea what it means to be a Christian. It has nothing to do with estate taxes, trickle-down economics, school vochers, school prayer, anti-big guvment, flag burning, or any of the other sham platforms that most Christians in America so deeply care about. We're a spoiled nation and have little or no persecution. Ask a Turkish Christian or a Sudanese Christian what their stance is on flag burning or the estate tax and they might laugh. They only care about making disciples. That's it.

So to answer your question, it is the people in the churches that have grown lazy and have developed a consumer version of Christianity. Post-Modern, Modern, whatever... the problem is the consumer of American Christianity.

PUGalicious
03-21-2007, 11:16 AM
The problem is American Christians have no idea what it means to be a Christian. It has nothing to do with estate taxes, trickle-down economics, school vochers, school prayer, anti-big guvment, flag burning, or any of the other sham platforms that most Christians in America so deeply care about. We're a spoiled nation and have little or no persecution. Ask a Turkish Christian or a Sudanese Christian what their stance is on flag burning or the estate tax and they might laugh. They only care about making disciples. That's it.

So to answer your question, it is the people in the churches that have grown lazy and have developed a consumer version of Christianity. Post-Modern, Modern, whatever... the problem is the consumer of American Christianity.
:congrats: Keep preachin'... :congrats:

BaconCheeseburgerDeluxe
03-21-2007, 11:23 AM
Would Jesus Where a Rolex

By: Ray Stevens

Woke up this mornin', turned on the t.v. set.
there in livin' color, was somethin' I can't forget.
This man was preachin' at me, yeah, layin' on the charm
askin' me for twenty, with ten-thousand on his arm.
He wore designer clothes, and a big smile on his face
tellin' me salvation while they sang Amazin' Grace.
Askin' me for money, when he had all the signs of wealth.
I almost wrote a check out, yeah, then I asked myself

(chorus)

Would He wear a pinky ring, would He drive a brand new car?
Would His wife wear furs and diamonds, would His dressin' room have a star?
If He came back tomorrow, well there's somethin' I'd like to know
Could ya tell me, Would Jesus wear a Rolex on His television show.

Would Jesus be political if He came back to earth?
Have His second home in Palm Springs, yeah, a try to hide His worth?
Take money, from those poor folks, when He comes back again,
and admit He's talked to all them preachers who say they been a talkin' to Him?

(chorus)

Just ask ya' self, Would He wear a pinky ring,
Would He drive a brand new car?
Would His wife wear furs and diamonds, would His dressing room have a star?
If He came back tomorrow, well there's somethin' I'd like to know:
Could ya tell me, would Jesus wear a Rolex,
Would jesus wear a Rolex
Would Jesus wear a Rolex
On His television show-ooh-ooh?

mwmcl
03-21-2007, 12:27 PM
That song would be funnier if it weren't so accurate. It's actually a sad and sobering indictment.