View Full Version : Yes-No-Maybe-Sometimes Dead Horse



sunshinepatriot
03-12-2007, 10:21 PM
Let's beat a dead horse.

Sooner Investment recently submitted a change order on their development, Bridges at Spring Creek. Remember the Yes-No-Maybe-Sometimes vote.... this is what that was about. Why is this important? Because they want to lessen their gifts to the city, change their master plan and tear down that little wall of trees between Belks and Hafer. That vote goes out the window. Yippee. Let's dance again. Hopefully my side won't get out-spent $180,000 to $5,000 again.

Before you dismiss me, let me explain my position.

I live in Turtle Creek Commons, located directly south of where Bridges is to be located. (East of Panera Bread, for you locals.) I received word that this wound is about to be reopened and thought I would explain my position.

I was one of those so-called "no Edmond... tree hugging hippies." While I am no Al Gore, I also don't go around leaving water faucets turned on and laugh like a hyena. Environmentalism isn't my priority, but it is not neglected.

I decided to go the No No Yes Yes route for several reasons. The primary reasons where...

1. It will affect my property value. Yup. I'm self-centered. At least I'm honest. I don't understand how Sooner Investment has the right to profit whenever it directly screws me over --- along with dozens of other citizens who live here.

2. Traffic already is horrible. Adding at least 8,000+ more cars through the Bryant and 15th Intersection is a horrible idea. Considering that this is a pipeline for 1,000 high school student drivers twice a day, and the danger goes up exponentially.

3. They passed the zoning act illegally. Granted, I fudge on laws sometimes... like speeding. Do I violate major zoning codes...? Nah. Do I pay for a lawyer who is the mayor's bro-in-law to represent me to get my way? Nah. Should have thought of it.

4. Safety (long term.) Without a doubt, the economy is booming right now. When this occurs, wealthy areas attract merchants and quick development. What can happen, however, is over-development. Look at West Oklahoma City, in the old white-flight areas near Overholser. Putnam City used to be the snobby end of town, along with all of the other biases associated with Edmond. It was overdeveloped and what happened... those buildings get left behind. What fills these buildings...? Look at DeVille Shopping at 10th and Rockwell... home of crime. Look at 39th and Portland... a continuous cycle of one-month-and-done establishments and crime. Edmond should learn from other parts of the city's mistakes.

5. Reasonable growth is a good thing. Growth for growth's sake is not always a good thing. The NIMBY factor comes into play here, along with the rooftops before businesses bit.

6. Hafer Park. Sure, there will supposedly not be a direct line of sight from Hafer to the development. What about the bright glow of flood lights into the night's sky. When Shakespeare in the Park returns, they'll barely need lighting, as it will be provided by Bed Bath and Beyond on steroids.

7. (this is where it gets trivial...) They pushed me into oncoming traffic. One of the paid campaigners at a rally literally pushed me in front of a moving car. Funny for some; not for the driver. I survived. :fighting3

8. (this is recent...) They're not coming through on their promises. If one looks you in the eye and lies to you once, should you trust them the second time around?

All of that said... I sort of understand the other side. Money talks. Ignore the diamonds. Yea Team. Go Fight Win.

Tim
03-14-2007, 10:17 AM
Well, it appears this horse is not dead yet. The fine corporate citizens at Sooner Demolition (oops, I meant Development) are trying to jam through revisions to the approved plan that involve reducing landscaping, reduced tree preservation and basically renigging on the promises made to the voters of Edmond. Now their hip-pocket candidates are attacking Dan O'Neil for his "pro-citizen" stance and his opposition to rampant over-development. Wayne Pettigrew actually went as far as to refer to himself as the "savior" and Dan as the "anti-christ" at a public forum! From experience, these people will stop at nothing to get their way. Proves the point that when a few million dollars are at stake the rights of the people get trampled!

Tim
03-22-2007, 11:09 AM
The Edmond Sun and the Daily Okie both ran stories today on Sooner Investments attempts to reduce the amount of landscaping they promised for the Bridges development. I remember quite a bit of discussion here during the "No-No-Yes-Yes" campaign, and there were some folks who strongly supported the project being built. I'm curious as to how you feel about what the developers are attempting now.

PUGalicious
03-22-2007, 11:44 AM
I'm still strongly opposed and feel even more justified in my "No-No-Yes-Yes" votes.

Tim
03-22-2007, 01:14 PM
Glad to hear it! I can't get my head around the sheer audacity of Sooner.

ultimatesooner
03-22-2007, 03:08 PM
solution to these kind of problems = buy a home in a mature area and let other people worry about it

Tim
03-22-2007, 03:11 PM
Huh?

sunshinepatriot
03-23-2007, 11:40 PM
I would say that my home (turtle creek commons, built 20 years ago) is in a mature area. One mile east of Memorial High School is one of the older neighborhoods in Edmond (i.e., pre-white flight).

jbrown84
03-26-2007, 03:11 PM
I was in favor of the development, but I'm not happy with them turning right around and trying to get their landscaping requirements reduced. I was only in favor of it because upscale shopping with good landscaping is good for Edmond and will raise, not lower your property values.

On the other hand, I was against another Walmart, and I have yet to spend a dime at the Fox Lake Walmart.

Tim
03-27-2007, 06:55 AM
I was in favor of the development, but I'm not happy with them turning right around and trying to get their landscaping requirements reduced. I was only in favor of it because upscale shopping with good landscaping is good for Edmond and will raise, not lower your property values.

On the other hand, I was against another Walmart, and I have yet to spend a dime at the Fox Lake Walmart.
I think I can safely say that most of us are in favor of well done developments. That said, look at Sooner's track record and you will see a long history of poorly done projects, a complete disregard for the citizens/communities concerns and lots and lots of empty retail space. I was opposed to Bridges for a number of reasons, but I really thought the process would be conducted fairly. From personal experience, these people will stop at nothing to make a buck. They brought in hired-gun campaigners, attempted to bribe the city with a land donation for Pelican Bay (which is now being changed to "shared parking"), placed signage carefully designed to mislead and spent big bucks on glossy fliers promising up to 37% landscaping! In short, they steamrolled the citizens groups that opposed them by stealing a few pages from the Wal-Mart playbook.

PUGalicious
03-27-2007, 06:59 AM
In short, they steamrolled the citizens groups that opposed them by stealing a few pages from the Wal-Mart playbook.
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.... we have a winner!

Tim
03-27-2007, 07:03 AM
'Mornin Pugs!

jbrown84
03-27-2007, 09:32 AM
Hopefully the city council or whoever makes this decision will not allow them to go back on promises made that got them their zoning change from the vote of the people.

CMSturgeon
03-28-2007, 10:16 AM
Speaking of dead horses, it sure is dead around here this week.

jbrown84
03-28-2007, 12:12 PM
Speaking of dead horses, it sure is dead around here this week.

I hadn't noticed.

metro
03-29-2007, 06:07 PM
6. Hafer Park. Sure, there will supposedly not be a direct line of sight from Hafer to the development. What about the bright glow of flood lights into the night's sky. When Shakespeare in the Park returns, they'll barely need lighting, as it will be provided by Bed Bath and Beyond on steroids.

Not to be trivial, but Shakespeare in the Park has moved permanently to Downtown OKC at the Myriad Gardens.

Tim
03-30-2007, 12:39 PM
True, thanks Metro.

sunshinepatriot
03-31-2007, 10:26 PM
Good point, Metro. Looks like three batches of fire will make you want to move.

One other thing, about land value. From when my wife and I agreed to purchase our house (a year ago) to today, the residential land value immediately south of Bridges has dropped over $10,000.

Interesting how you are willing to protest things in your backyard. I'm still steaming over WalMart III. You got screwed just like I did. Next time the city wants to screw someone over, why don't we both stand up and give an old Andy Rooney "Wait a damn minute!"... (?)