This is a great piece from the KC Star. It paints OKC in a GREAT light.

Random prediction: The Big 12 Tournament will fall into a three-city rotation: KC-Dallas-OKC, and that'll be the rotation for years to come. We're at the big boys table now, kiddos.
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One and done? Not if OKC has its way
Centrally located Oklahoma City thinks the Big 12 basketball tourneys should be a local staple.
By BLAIR KERKHOFF
The Kansas City Star

OKLAHOMA CITY | Surely it was nothing more than a coincidence. The unveiling of a 20-foot-high street clock, just north of the Ford Center, served as Oklahoma City’s public welcoming of the Big 12 Conference men’s and women’s basketball tournaments.

As the balloons flew and the band struck up “Oklahoma!” you could see the gleam in Mayor’s Mick Cornett’s eyes.

Cue the symbolism. Oklahoma City’s time has come.

This week, Big 12 officials started the process of awarding future sites. Oklahoma City isn’t waiting for the final horn to sound on its first Big 12 hoop experience to ponder its options.

It wants in.

“For us to elbow our way in to get an event that’s been going to Kansas City and Dallas is significant,” Cornett said. “This has placed us on a new plateau, and we’d like to be part of the Big 12’s future.”

So does Kansas City, which plays host to the tournaments next year with the men playing at the Sprint Center and the women at Municipal Auditorium.

The event hasn’t been awarded beyond 2008.

For years, this state’s coaches — from former Oklahoma coach Kelvin Sampson to Sooners women’s coach Sherri Coale to former Oklahoma State coach Eddie Sutton — swore the championships would be a smash hit in Oklahoma. They pointed to the state’s passion for sports, especially college games.

NCAA tournaments played to full houses. The softball College World Series and Big 12 baseball tournaments are anchored in Oklahoma City.

But a weeklong basketball event in Oklahoma City wasn’t possible until 2002, when the Ford Center opened for business, giving the city buildings to host the men’s and women’s events. The Cox Convention Center, formerly the Myriad, sits across the street.

“The proximity of the venues make this a fan’s paradise,” Coale said.

Thursday, the men’s tournament caught something of a break when it came to making an early impression. The local teams would have preferred waiting a day to start, joining the top-seeded teams, but ninth-seeded Oklahoma opened the men’s tournament by defeating Iowa State. Seventh-seeded Oklahoma State beat Nebraska in the evening session.

It made for a better-than-usual opening day crowd, and Sooners guard David Godbold played the edge for all it was worth, imploring the partisan crowd to urge on the Sooners in the final moments of a close game.

Fans outside the Ford Center could watch the action on big-screen televisions and party on closed Reno Avenue, which borders Bricktown, the city’s entertainment district. The visitors liked the setup.

“I was pretty excited when I heard it was coming here,” said Tim Puvogel, a Kansas fan from Salina, Kan. “It’s a doable drive, and the city seems excited about it.”

That’s music to Cornett’s ears. He sees the tournaments not just as a weeklong boost to the local economy but as an opportunity to promote Oklahoma City as a sporting event destination.

“We had the Olympic Festival here in 1989, but I’d call this the biggest convention-like sports event in the city’s history, maybe the state’s history,” he said. “It validates our city’s renaissance.”

• • •

When it comes to geography, the Big 12 venue competition has always been tilted toward Kansas City.

For the marquee basketball tournaments and the football championship game, several Texas cities — Dallas, Houston and San Antonio — typically showed interest. Each has played host to a football game, and the title game returns to the Alamodome in December.

Dallas has been the only Texas site for hoops, but the others have wanted in as well.

Among northern locations for football and basketball, there’s been only Kansas City, at least after St. Louis stopped showing much interest.

One event for Dallas, one for Kansas City. One for Houston, one for Kansas City — and that’s how Kansas City wound up with more of the league’s crown jewel events, with seven of the first 10 basketball tournaments and four football games.

With its centralized location, Oklahoma City could change the dynamic. The average distance from Big 12 campuses to Oklahoma City is 55 miles closer than it is to Kansas City.

“You can get here in less than a day’s drive from anywhere in the Big 12,” Cornett said. “It’s the only place in the Big 12 where that’s possible.”

Big 12 commissioner Kevin Weiberg said he doesn’t sense the interest from schools to lock into permanent sites, such as Kansas City for basketball and Dallas for football.

“Many of those I talk to believe there is less value for a single site for a sport,” Weiberg said. “Moving it around, I think, is the way to go.”

Kansas City has always been in line, and thinks its position has never been stronger with the Sprint Center and the Power & Light District set to open later this year.

“In the past, we had to manufacture our amenities, set up tents or put the entertainment in Hale Arena,” said Kansas City Sports Commission Executive Director Kevin Gray. “We’re in a position to put our best foot forward.”

Dallas as a future basketball site is less certain. Dave Brown, general manager of the American Airlines Center, said he wanted to keep college balls bouncing in his building. He’s proposed playing both the women’s and men’s tournaments there, a prospect the league might consider given the uncertain future of Reunion Arena, site of the women’s tournament. Reunion is expected to be shut down by 2008.

“That’s a possibility,” Weiberg said. “We would lay out in our request for proposal the format and dates we anticipate using, but we don’t want to stifle the creativity of a city. We’ll listen to new ideas.”

• • •

A difference in this round of championship site proposals is more certainty in the venues.

Over the past few years, the Big 12 resisted awarding future sites beyond one year because it didn’t know how voters would react to proposals to the new basketball arena in Kansas City and football stadium in Arlington, Texas.

Now that the Sprint Center is nearly a reality and the new football stadium to be operated by Cowboys owner Jerry Jones is to open in 2009, the Big 12 can move forward. Weiberg said it’s possible for championship sites to be awarded through 2013 with an announcement as early as the league’s annual May meetings.

Weiberg said he’s heard good things about Oklahoma City but the important feedback comes after the tournament from the schools. The league office wants to know about fan experiences. One concern about Oklahoma City was the number of quality hotel rooms in the downtown area.

“Some people think having to stay in Norman (20 miles away) is too far,” Weiberg said. “But we’ll know more about that in the next few weeks.”

The $89.1 million Ford Center doesn’t have the amenities of the $420 million American Airlines Center in Dallas or the $276 million Sprint Center. But the building, which has played host to the NBA Hornets during their New Orleans relocation for two seasons, doesn’t work against Oklahoma City, and the Myriad is an ideal size and setting for the women.

Cornett can recite a list of several more of his city’s advantages, and they’ll all go in Oklahoma City’s proposal for future tournaments. But the highest compliment was made three years ago when the Big 12 gave the nod for this year’s event.

“It sent a message that Oklahoma City could measure up,” Cornett said. “We know we can.”
Title towns

The Big 12 hopes to soon clear up future championship sites.

BASKETBALL

1997-2002: KC 2003-04: Dallas 2005: KC 2006: Dallas 2007: Okla. City 2008: KC

FOOTBALL

1996: St. Louis 1997: San Antonio 1998: St. Louis 1999: San Antonio 2000: KC 2001: Dallas 2002: Houston 2003-04: KC 2005: Houston 2006: KC 2007: San Antonio

Good post, you should put it in the Big 12 Out of Town media thread.

Weiberg said he’s heard good things about Oklahoma City but the important feedback comes after the tournament from the schools. The league office wants to know about fan experiences. One concern about Oklahoma City was the number of quality hotel rooms in the downtown area.

“Some people think having to stay in Norman (20 miles away) is too far,” Weiberg said. “But we’ll know more about that in the next few weeks.”



This doesn't make sense, the Skirvin have several rooms available all weekend, the Colcord told me that most of their rooms available throughout the tournament.

Weiberg said he’s heard good things about Oklahoma City but the important feedback comes after the tournament from the schools. The league office wants to know about fan experiences. One concern about Oklahoma City was the number of quality hotel rooms in the downtown area.

“Some people think having to stay in Norman (20 miles away) is too far,” Weiberg said. “But we’ll know more about that in the next few weeks.”



This doesn't make sense, the Skirvin have several rooms available all weekend, the Colcord told me that most of their rooms available throughout the tournament.

I heard this on TV.....I think they meant quality rooms at a reasonable cost. Skirvin & Colcord had rooms, but the outlying moderately priced hotels in the metro were packed. The distance between the moderately priced rooms and downtown was too great for some.

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Weiberg is a bit of a snake. Parsing his language, the hotel room issue could become the complaint du jour. Of course, we do have the Hampton opening between now and '09, so there will be even more moderately priced rooms available in the area.

Once the Hampton opens up, we'll be in better shape. We need more hotels like that downtown insead of just the boutique hotels. Folks dont all come into town wanting to spend $300 a night on a room. You get the average Joe fan, and they want that Holiday Inn price downtown. Personally, I don't see a problem with having all ranges covered downtown and can't believe that we haven't had more of them decide to build down there.

Hopefully whatever Brewer has planned at Oklahoma & the canal will be up by 2009.

Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways.

Downtown accomodations are always going to be more expensive than those in more remote areas.

And I would bet that the average cost for downtown OKC hotel rooms -- including the Colcord & Skirvin -- is still well below that of KC and certainly Dallas.


A more positive way to look at this is that there were plenty of nice rooms within walking distance available to anyone that didn't mind paying for that luxury, and at the same time there were plenty of inexpensive rooms within a 15- to 20-minute drive.


As an example, when I looked into going to this last Fiesta Bowl, there was literally nothing within two miles of that stadium AND there was a $20 parking charge, even though the venue was in the middle of nowhere.

Even the budget hotels that were about 10 miles away were all more than $100 per night, and most were quite a bit more.



It's just like the parking issue... Isolated complaints/concerns mean nothing without some sort of direct comparison and perspective.

I really don't know why someone would have to stay all the way in Norman. I KNOW there's cheap stuff between here and there all over the place. Seems more likely that whoever said that was looking for the more medium level and must have waited til the last minute and everthing downtown and on Meridian was booked. Even that sounds a little far fetched. I really don't understand why anyone would have to stay all the way down in Norman.

I wonder how the OKC Convention & Tourism department communicated with the various schools and their fan bases?

Because you are right jbrown... It's very hard to believe that anyone would have to stay that far away, even though in the bigger picture it's still not that long of a drive.

Again, comparing to Dallas, you either stay downtown or have a ways to travel before you can find reasonable accomodations.

Isolated complaints/concerns mean nothing without some sort of direct comparison and perspective.

Yep. Just about every complaint I've heard loses all merit when compared to any other markets in the region.

Could there be more affordable rooms downtown? Sure. But show me a market where that isn't true. Also, what is considered "affordable" in the OKC market would be down right cheap in most markets.

I would agree that we could use more rooms at any price downtown. What seems to have happened is that we keep getting these rinky dink hotels that, due to scarcity, end up charging prices that are 2-3 times more expensive than similar hotels with almost exactly the same services in other areas of the city. I would also expect downtown accomodations to cost some multiple of exurban budget hotels, but you would also expect a significant increase in service and luxury. Outside of the Skirvin and the Colcord, I'm not sure there's much noticable difference between the hotels downtown and, say, Meridian Ave or the Expressway.

But, at the end of the day, if you compare any of our downtown hotels to any hotels of similar class and service in any other city during an event weekend, I think you're going to see OKC is cheaper 9 times out of 10.

All very good points. I wonder how the hotels on Memorial Rd. did? I am guessing they were sold out. Less expensive - but you had to drive quite a distance. I think the trade-off is fair - and expected - in most larger cities.

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The Courtyard downtown is far nicer than typical ones.

Once the Hampton Inn is completed it will offer "cheaper" rates like the Residence Inn and Courtyard.

I'm hoping the hotels will remain upscale and higher priced. It keeps the property values higher and people who spend more money expect premium service. OKC is covered with Average Joe motels and hotels. We need 4 and 5 star hotels with 4 and 5 star restaurants.

Prunepicker

^ I agree, but it's good to have some cheaper options downtown as well. I want OKC's next major downtown hotel to be a highrise Grand Hyatt, Omni, or (this is a stretch) a W. A modern Hyatt or Omni rising 30 stories next to the Ford Center overlooking the Myriad Gardens and skyline would be awesome. It would be even better if it were part of a larger development along the new blvd. that included lots of shops and a department store.

You just have to know a big convention hotel is coming.

And I'm sure they'll continue to be a series of smaller, less-expensive projects as well. That's one of the benefits of still having lots of un- and under-developed properties in and around downtown.

You just have to know a big convention hotel is coming.

Especially after this last weekend. Just another step up the ladder.

I really don't know why someone would have to stay all the way in Norman. I KNOW there's cheap stuff between here and there all over the place. Seems more likely that whoever said that was looking for the more medium level and must have waited til the last minute and everthing downtown and on Meridian was booked. Even that sounds a little far fetched. I really don't understand why anyone would have to stay all the way down in Norman.

I know, I dont understand this argument either. OKC has over 13,000 (probably close to 14K now) hotel rooms - yet the person had/wants to drive to "Norman" for a hotel room.

Norman probably ONLY has 1,500 hotel rooms at best.

But I do think downtown needs more hotels. I remember laughing when the city officials were "elated" over having 1500 hotel rooms downtown - and all at premium rates.

I stated in previous forums - that you need to have a range of rates in a downtown. Sure the market itself will dictate what the price points and market positioning will be - but you need ROOMS.

I think OKC's downtown hotels are way too small and should be double the size in order for OKC to be truly competitive. 311 rooms for a "convention hotel" is Tier IV thinking. Tier III would be 600 rooms. Tier II, 900. Tier I, over 1000 of course.

See, this has been my BIGGEST complaint about OKC. While I agree and am impressed with what has been done - nobody there wants to think BIG TIME.

Hopefully, this is changing - with the NBA coming to town in some form, as well as the NOW assurance that OKC will be hosting large scale sporting events annually. With all of that downtown, as well as conventions and regular downtown business - I think OKC should shoot for no less than 3,000 hotel rooms downtown.

That should have been the goal from the beginning! And we'd be a lot closer if the Renaissance Convention hotel was 600 rooms instead of 311 or the Courtyard hotel were 500 instead of 250. Hopefully the Hampton Inn and Suites is the last of the small scale hotels - we need to build Oklahoma's largest hotel and second largest hotel, 700 and 650 rooms respectfully. Along with several budget hotels - that would put the city over 3,000 rooms.

At that level, the city would TRULY be at Tier II and could compete with the so-called big boys because it would be ONE OF THEM!!!

I think we should shoot for nothing less - OKC may very well be a Tier II city now, but the competition is near.

You just have to know a big convention hotel is coming.

And I'm sure they'll continue to be a series of smaller, less-expensive projects as well. That's one of the benefits of still having lots of un- and under-developed properties in and around downtown.

Ft. Lauderdale used to have tons of less expensive hotels. College kids would swarm during spring break and spend as much as 100 million dollars. The city was a wasteland for a month. Traffic was backed up, there were drunks, public indecency etc... but they spent $100 million. FL city council were worried about discouraging the kids from coming. Then somebody did the math. They found that going cheap wasn't worth it. Now they've gone to VERY expensive hotels, some are $600/night, and the $$$ are rolling in over and above what the 'spring break' mentally was bringing. The income from tourism is over $1 Billion. The less-expensive room seekers don't like it but Ft. Lauderdale likes it.

The fact is people who travel on a low cost budget don't spend money. OKC needs to attract people that shell out the dough.

Prunepicker

OKC and Fort Lauderdale are polar opposites...Beaches and dry flat land don't attract the same clientele....OKC is still only able to attract the occasional weekend getaway driver, conventioner or business tripper...Imagine there are very few who fly in just for a true vacation here

OKC will need a lot more than a few dozen restaurants and clubs lining a riverwalk to be able to charge $200 and $300 a night across the board...Why it's important to have some Hampton's and Residence Inn's available

Getting better, but long ways off from tourists clamoring to vaca in good old Oklahoma

I was thinking about this issue yesterday. Wouldn't the downtown Sheridan and maybe even the renaissance be structurally stable enough to add floors to it as was originally planned with the Skirvin, etc. I think doubling the size of the Sheridan would be awesome. Maybe with an email campaign and the city's help this could easily be achieved.

As far as the Sheraton expanding, it seems they could easily lay waste to the chronically empty Century Center and build a new tower there.


And regarding thinking bigger, it's a simple matter of someone with the resources to make a big commitment. Most of the hotel development has come from smaller, local developers with the exception of Hammonds... And a huge convention hotel doesn't seem to be up his street.

A big chain or regional developer will soon realize all the groundwork has been laid and that the time for a big conention hotel has come. And I bet it will be built by an entity not yet represented in the marketplace.

And I bet it will be built by an entity not yet represented in the marketplace.


I'd take that bet. ;)

Ft. Lauderdale used to have tons of less expensive hotels. College kids would swarm during spring break and spend as much as 100 million dollars. The city was a wasteland for a month. Traffic was backed up, there were drunks, public indecency etc... but they spent $100 million. FL city council were worried about discouraging the kids from coming. Then somebody did the math. They found that going cheap wasn't worth it. Now they've gone to VERY expensive hotels, some are $600/night, and the $$$ are rolling in over and above what the 'spring break' mentally was bringing. The income from tourism is over $1 Billion. The less-expensive room seekers don't like it but Ft. Lauderdale likes it.

The fact is people who travel on a low cost budget don't spend money. OKC needs to attract people that shell out the dough.

Prunepicker

I disagree. Strongly. Many people travel on a budget (cheap air, hotel) precisely because they want to spend money at their destination (restaurants, retail, etc.) and not blow it all on a place to lay their heads for a few hours a day. To say we only want people coming to our city who want to spend big bucks at expensive hotels is elitist to the extreme. We would say goodbye to a lot of visitors to our city if we didn't want those travelers on a budget. Comparing Ft. Lauderdale and their Spring Break experience to Oklahoma City is apples and oranges - no valid comparison whatsoever.

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I was thinking about this issue yesterday. Wouldn't the downtown Sheridan and maybe even the renaissance be structurally stable enough to add floors to it as was originally planned with the Skirvin, etc. I think doubling the size of the Sheridan would be awesome. Maybe with an email campaign and the city's help this could easily be achieved.

The Renaissance definitely no, and the Sheraton probably no. These hotels have structural systems that were designed to just meet the needs of the building as they were originally designed. The building construction in the last 30-40 years has been primarly driven by economics. If the architects and engineers had suggested to Marriott hotels that they design the structure of the Renaissance to be twice as expensive to accomodate some possible future expansion in an area that has plenty of open area on which to build, the would be laughed out of the room. The Skirvin was built in a different time with different values. Buildings were more than just dollars and cents, they were a status symbol and an ego. The taller you could go, the better. And if you can't afford to go taller, you can be ready for when you can.


Like Grandpa says, "they don't build 'em like the used to."

The Courtyard downtown is far nicer than typical ones.

Really? That's good news. I haven't stayed there, but it's stature and decor certainly aren't that impressive. I've been there several times before concerts and games and it didn't impress me as far nicer than most hotels in Oklahoma City, certainly not hotels in most downtowns. It's seems pretty average, but maybe the rooms are nice.

Even if it is a little nicer than other hotels in the city, it still represents a huge missed opportunity given its location.

I too can vouch for the Courtyard. I have stayed there some 5 or so times when I visit the city and I can honestly say it is THE BEST Courtyard I've stayed in.

In reality, you could change the name of it to Hilton or Marriott and the hotel would live up to it. Many big cities have Courtyard Hotels that are full-service, high class venues - Courtyard Chicago comes to mind. And OKC's Courtyard certainly IS in that category.

It is TOTALLY different and MUCH better than the suburban Courtyard hotels and keep in mind - it does have 8 floors (although I agree - it should have been at least 12 storeys tall). It is a true downtown hotel - dont be dismayed by the name Courtyard by Marriott. In fact, most of those located in downtowns (like ours, Chicago, ect) are starting to market themselves as "Courtyard Hotel" and not so much Courtyard by Marriott anymore.

Courtyard Hotels are intended for the business executive to have full services at his beck and call - and OKC's downtown hotel lives up to this. Plus, the inside is rather hip and I'd say it is the hippest hotel in the city. I am not alone in this opinion - check TripAdvisor.com and you will find similar commentary for Courtyard Downtown Oklahoma City.

Also, I almost forgot - the rooms are very nice, new/clean, and certainly executive. Like I've said, I've stayed in Courtyard hotels even the other two in OKC and the one downtown is in a league with Renaissance and Sheraton.

I think Residence Inn will cator more to extended travelers in the mid range but Courtyard bills itself in the same category as Renaissance (which is 4.5 stars by the way) and I think Courtyard does come pretty close having stayed in both as well as the Sheraton.

On a side note, I think we do need to push for several more hotels; a couple of which are large scale convention style and several more that are budget and economy. I disagree about the opinion raised that OKC is not a vacation destination. You guys need to visit travel sites more often, you will see that people are getting to OKC and have some good (and sometimes constructive) things to say - but most have a good time and would return.

While OKC might never become a vacation mecca like Ft Lauderdale - Im not sure OKC is even after that demographic. I think OKC is looking for business and transient destination demographics - in efforts to expand its economy. We're looking for new businesses and residents - so hotels should be priced for those demographics

Here is my take on the downtown Hotel Market positioning:
- boutique - we have but could use more since they are always pretty small,
- luxury - we have but one more couldn't hurt,
- full-service business - we have but need a few more,
- convention - we have one in name but I say we get one or two that are truly with 650+ rooms each
- economy - we need, budget - we need,
- extended stay - we have one but need more),
- suite only - we need,
- SRO - might not hurt to have one.

And like I said, we need to have 3,000 hotel rooms downtown as our next benchmark. We've made 1,500 (or will surpass it with the Hampton Inn and Suites). I also see the need for 500 rooms at the OHC and Capitol campuses each and at least one hotel at the Adventure District.

That would add 1200 or so rooms to the additional 1500 rooms that we'd gain downtown, bringing the total rooms for OKC well above 15,000 rooms; with 3,000+ in core downtown, 4,000+ in expanded downtown including Capitol and OHC/Midtown.

Now that is what goals need to be set for OKC and I think that is achievable. Will 4,000 rooms be filled downtown nightly - probably not, but that is where competition would come in and some of them would lower their prices from time to time (if their market position is not budget or economy normally). And I wouldn't think we'd get any luxury or convention hotel outside of core downtown for the next 10 years (although there might be a possibility of the Capitol for a luxury hotel since it wouldn't compete with core downtown).

dont be dismayed by the name Courtyard by Marriott.

I'm not. Iwas going off my actual visits there, not the name.


Plus, the inside is rather hip and I'd say it is the hippest hotel in the city.

I guess we just disagree on that. I think it felt dated the day it opened, but I do remember hearing that it was going through some renovations. Maybe it's been updated since I last went (I think that was before the Nine Inch Nails show last year, but I may have stopped by on the way to a game since then). I just felt that its design style in the lobby, bar, and restaurant had been done over and over and similar design can be found in some of our nicer McDonald's.

I'm not saying it's bad or not nice. I just wouldn't put it in the "hip" category. That's probably just a casualty of one of the functioning charcteristics of hippness. As Tower of Power said "what's hip today, might become passe". I would say that Courtyard design has become passe.

I do realize that may not be the hippest of references. :)

BDP, you've been in the lobby of the Courtyard and did not find it to be several notches above your typical Holiday Inn/Hampton Inn?

BDP, I'm going to agree with you, although nice, and nicer than any Courtyard I've seen. I still think the design is passe. The inside lobby architecture is nice, but the prints used in carpet, paint, etc. are like a cheesy upscale McDonalds print (circa 1990's motif). Think Saved by the Bell gone hipper. I certainly do not think the Courtyard is downtown's hippest hotel, let alone the entire city. I think this bragging right definitely goes to the Colcord hands down.

As far as someone mentioning a hotel or two going up in the adventure district, we definitely need some over there so that area can take off. I read a journal record article today (March 9th's edition) that is proposing a hotel at Remington Park. I'll post more on that later.

My dad is a Residency Director for OU Med School and he says over and over again that someone needs to build a hotel in the OHC for visiting Resident prospects, visitors to the PHF, patients, etc.

Well Metro, my comments for hippest hotel was when downtown only had 3 of them and clearly the Courtyard had the title hands down. Also, it was based on my stays there - which the last was April of last year.

I will be returning to the city for this years Festival of the Arts so I will experience the Colcord and probably agree. But to be sure - my hip rating was before Colcord opened.

Im glad you all agree with my suggestion for hotels in the OHC and Adventure district. While I do want downtown to have the most and most concentration of hotels - I think the other inner city areas need at least one as well.

One hotel in the OHC (like an extended stay type) is appropriate. Say Residence Inn Oklahoma City Health Center!
One hotel in the Adventure District is needed, probably two tho (one budget and one midpoint type). Say Holiday Inn Remington Park and Hyatt Oklahoma City Adventure District
One hotel would be nice around the capitol complex, two would be better (midpoint or convention style and budget type), say Oklahoma City Marriott Capitol Hill and Four Points by Sheraton Oklahoma Capitol.

So Im just talking about five hotels (max) right now in the inner city but outside of downtown. That would be what 1200 rooms or so and would provide hospitality options close to downtown but not in downtown.

The Colcord is really cool because it has that intangible "hip" cachet. It really compliments the Skirvin because they are both historic but the Skirvin has the classy, wood-paneled, old world style, and the Colcord has the marble walls and floor and wrought iron bannisters. The modern decor goes well with it. It feels very much like something you'd expect to see in a trendy New York neighborhood.

jbrown, I can't wait to stay in it. Im sure it is light years ahead of Courtyard - even just for the simple fact that Colcord is boutique and is in an old building.

Courtyard is new and regardless of the carpet, is also a hip hotel. It certainly was hipper than the other two downtown options I had on my visit last year.

That's something - think how quickly OKC is changing. .. .. we went from numerous downtown hotels down to three (Sheraton, Skirvin, Holiday Inn) down to two down to one, then up to two (Sheraton/Westin and Renaissance) then to three (Courtyard), then to six (add in Colcord, Residence Inn, and Skirvin Hilton). Soon, there will be seven (Hampton Inn and Suites) and hopefully eight (Embassy Suites Downtown OKC).

Hopefully, the hotel momentum will not stop downtown until we have at least 3,000 hotel rooms within 1/2 mile of central downtown; 5,000 hotel rooms within 2 miles of central downtown. At that point, the market would dictate who survives and who could come in next.

Well Metro, my comments for hippest hotel was when downtown only had 3 of them and clearly the Courtyard had the title hands down. Also, it was based on my stays there - which the last was April of last year.

I will be returning to the city for this years Festival of the Arts so I will experience the Colcord and probably agree. But to be sure - my hip rating was before Colcord opened.

Im glad you all agree with my suggestion for hotels in the OHC and Adventure district. While I do want downtown to have the most and most concentration of hotels - I think the other inner city areas need at least one as well.

One hotel in the OHC (like an extended stay type) is appropriate. Say Residence Inn Oklahoma City Health Center!
One hotel in the Adventure District is needed, probably two tho (one budget and one midpoint type). Say Holiday Inn Remington Park and Hyatt Oklahoma City Adventure District
One hotel would be nice around the capitol complex, two would be better (midpoint or convention style and budget type), say Oklahoma City Marriott Capitol Hill and Four Points by Sheraton Oklahoma Capitol.

So Im just talking about five hotels (max) right now in the inner city but outside of downtown. That would be what 1200 rooms or so and would provide hospitality options close to downtown but not in downtown.


Actually HOT ROD, I wasn't calling you out on that quote, but making a rather general statement. But since you bring it up, your comment from 8:54pm yesterday (scroll up a couple posts) clearly states that you said Courtyard is the hippest hotel. That sure wasn't with 3 hotels open yesterday, in fact all 6 downtown hotels were open yesterday. Now, if you're stating that you're going off your last experience you were in OKC, then I could buy that, but not saying that you made the comments last year because you obviously said that yesterday. Even having not visited, you should be able to clearly see from the Colcords website and pictures on here that it is way hipper than the Courtyard.

No hard feelings though.:tiphat:

BDP, you've been in the lobby of the Courtyard and did not find it to be several notches above your typical Holiday Inn/Hampton Inn?

Not full service ones. It's probably better than the HIs in the Oklahoma City area, but even those brands do have properties that are just as nice or nicer in other markets. It basically reminds me of your standard full service airport hotel that may have been redecorated since 1992 (well, that is, in terms of decor. Even most airport hotels are bigger).

The good news is that, no matter what one thinks of the Courtyard, it has been surpassed by not one, but two other hotels downtown.

I disagree. Strongly. Many people travel on a budget (cheap air, hotel) precisely because they want to spend money at their destination (restaurants, retail, etc.) and not blow it all on a place to lay their heads for a few hours a day.


And OKC is full full full of places for just that. Upscale is the best way to go. Also, my point is not apples to oranges and is full of validation. Most people like to stay in swanky places and eat the best food. They want to stay where the action is and that costs $$$.

We need to attract people who shell out the dough. That's not elitist it's good business. The more they spend the more revenue the city collects. That's the lesson Ft. Lauderdale learned. If you attract "Average Joe on a Budget" then you'll get a city that's "Average Joe on a Budget".

OKC has been "Average Joe on a Budget" for too long. We have the opportunity to change. Let's learn from Ft. Lauderdale and not wish we had after it's too late.

Prunepicker

And OKC is full full full of places for just that. Upscale is the best way to go. Also, my point is not apples to oranges and is full of validation. Most people like to stay in swanky places and eat the best food. They want to stay where the action is and that costs $$$.

We need to attract people who shell out the dough. That's not elitist it's good business. The more they spend the more revenue the city collects. That's the lesson Ft. Lauderdale learned. If you attract "Average Joe on a Budget" then you'll get a city that's "Average Joe on a Budget".

OKC has been "Average Joe on a Budget" for too long. We have the opportunity to change. Let's learn from Ft. Lauderdale and not wish we had after it's too late.

Prunepicker

I'm sorry, Prunepicker, I'm not trying to be difficult, but I have real problems with your comparing Ft. Lauderdale and Oklahoma City. People will go to Ft. Lauderdale because of its incredible natural beauty in sand and ocean. Those environments can command expensive resort hotels and get a premium for doing so. Your "Field of Dreams" theory about Oklahoma City (build it and they will come) is pure fantasy. Events will be the primary draw for people visiting Oklahoma City. Affordability in hotel rooms is an asset in the meeting/event planners mind. I want a four-star/five-star hotel as much as anyone, but you apparently see it as an either/or situation and view attracting the rich to Oklahoma City as some simple task if "we" will only build the hotels. That's way too simplistic and would lead to disaster and failure for a market of our maturity. What has happened downtown with all the hotels including the Skirvin and the Colcord, is nothing short of a miracle when one thinks back just 10 short years ago. Saying Oklahoma City has been "Average Joe on a budget," for too long is a good line, but it doesn't match the facts. The major fact being that the rich and glitz of America will not pour into Hyatt and W hotels and fill them up in Oklahoma City just because they're there. The hotels we have are on pace with our growth. To ridicule our current situation is being blinded to where we were just a blink of an eye ago. Ft. Lauderdale could easily make the transition from Spring Break, USA to upscale hotels and resorts by virtue of where they are - Metropolitan Miami. Sun, surf and sand. Period. People aren't showing up at their luxury hotels just because they are there. To quibble and insist that there is a fair comparison between Miami/Ft. Lauderdale and the Oklahoma City metro is (imo) bizarre. That's like comparing Tulsa to San Diego; and insisting if only Tulsa would quit building Courtyards and start building resort hotels they can compete with San Diego. And shame on the "Average Joe" thinking of Tulsa! Build those resorts! Earth to Prunepicker.
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Earth to writeranger. You're are being very difficult. I mentioned nothing about 'build it and they will come' you made it up. Virtually everything you've said I said isn't at all what I said. You recreated my post by adding things I never said, i.e. you put words in my mouth. That's extremely rude.

1. There was no "comparison"whatsoever to Ft. Lauderdale, Miami or any other city except in your imagination. I have no idea how you see any comparison. There IS a lesson to be learned. OKC must think out of the box.

2. Ft. Lauderdale got sick of being Average Joe. They did something about it. They raised their expectations instead of relying upon Average Joe one month out of the year. OKC can do the same thing. We need to sell ourselves big. OKC needs to take the chance. OKC must think growth.

3. OKC has the opportunity to become an art culture. Did you know OKC can't afford a full time orchestra? "Average Joe" might visit once in a blue moon but that doesn't support a symphony. The Reynolds Art Center has great possibilities. The money won't come from "Average Joe". The rich will donate more than Average Joe will spend buying tickets. I makes sense to attract the rich. They invest when they see a good thing. We must attract those with money. "Average Joe" likes to hang around the rich and glitzi.

4. If OKC thinks "Average Joe" then that's what we're going to get.

I was an "Average Joe" businessman. Every year we had a convention in Dallas. When the meeting was in an upscale hotel the attendance was great! Members would come from Kansas City, Denver, Tennessee, Missouri, Texas, New Mexico & Louisiana. When the convention was at an "Average Joe" hotel the attendance was almost non existent. NOBODY wanted it to be in an "Average Joe" hotel. Can you imagine why? "Average Joe" likes to act rich!

Prunepicker

Prunepicker,

I wasn't "adding words" to any your posts and "being rude." I called it a comparison, you say we can "learn lessons" regarding Ft. Lauderdale. Whatever. I say there's no lessons or comparisons with Ft. Lauderdale/Miami that has anything to do with Oklahoma City. I shouldn't have said, "Earth to Prunepicker." Okay? I'm sorry for that. The continuing references to Ft. Lauderdale were getting old and not applicable to OKC (imo). I think my last post laid out my position perfectly clear. Your last post only shows you still believe in the "Field of Dreams" theory of hotel development. It doesn't work. Ft. Lauderdale is basically a large suburb of Miami. That's the first reason comparing it to OKC is apples and oranges. I won't go on. I found the tone of your posts off-putting anyway when you classify the "Average Joe" and the rich and say we need to go "upscale" and focus on the rich. That is not progressive thinking, it's a prescription for failure. We are not on an ocean with the finest beaches in the world and able to attract resort hotels. If those hotels "should" be here - where are they? Everything else, I reference my last post.

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we need to go "upscale" and focus on the rich. That is not progressive thinking, it's a prescription for failure.--------------

Give us an example where it has failed.

Prunepicker