This is horrific. Please spay or neuter your pets.


The silent slaughter



LINDA CAVANAUGH REPORTING
OKLAHOMA CITY -- Oklahoma has a problem. It's a problem that's costing taxpayers millions of dollars a year. Unwanted dogs and cats are overrunning our animal shelters.

The problem is so serious that Governor Henry has declared this week, "Ok days to spay." It's an attempt to focus on the need to spay and neuter our pets.

We haven't done a very good job of it. NewsChannel 4 shows the consequences of not neutering or spaying animals.

Critics say something has to be done to stop this "silent slaughter."
It's early on a Monday morning. NewsChannel 4 is at the Oklahoma City Animal Shelter. What happens here happens almost every day of the year.
There are perfectly healthy, happy pups. They are all shapes and sizes, but with only one thing in common. No one wants them.

"No place to keep them. There's absolutely nowhere," says Dan Gannon.

It's Dan Gannon's job to kill them.

"Unfortunately, this animal; there's nothing medically wrong with this animal.
Unfortunately we have to euthanize because of space," Gannon says. "It's very quick acting."

A fatal solution is injected and seconds later the muscles go limp. He is one of 14,000 dogs that will be killed in this shelter in just one year.

Not all euthanasia's are because of over-population. City policy requires all pit bulls, unclaimed by the owner, to be put down. They're not adoptable.

In general, it's a case of too many wagging tales and not enough homes.

"I absolutely hate it," says Dan Gannon. "In the spring, we're overwhelmed. We have mamas having litters all the time."

"It's very emotional. It does make you very sad," says Dr. John Otto who spearheads Spay and Neuter Programs.

Dr. Otto says "People thought building more shelters and sanctuaries will take care of it. That's not it. It's kind of a band aid to what's happening underneath. We need to cut [it] off at the source and that's the spay and neuter program."

Numbers show that two unaltered dogs and their offspring can produce 67,000 more dogs in six years.

"So one spay and neuter can actually have a tremendous result down the road," Dr. Otto says.

It's a concept that's worked in Bristow, Oklahoma. City officials used to kill 1000 dogs a year.

"Now we're down to less than 100," says Mark Harmon.
Mark Harmon, with Bristow Animal Control, has worked with city officials and non-profit groups to institute a nationally recognized spay and neuter program.

"What good is a pretty good dog pound where dogs come to die? We use the money on spay and neuter," Harmon says.

It's estimated that 120,000 dogs are euthanized in Oklahoma shelters each year. A spay and neuter program could cut that number in half and save state shelters an estimated $2.5 million.

Ruth Steinberger is a national advocate of strong spay and neuter policies. She has helped cities around the nation cut their kill numbers.

Ruth Steinberger says we have too many dogs, "It's a costly problem. We can solve it by spay and neuter. It's not brain surgery to say where you have too many dogs, if you spay and neuter, you don't have them."

Yet Oklahoma continues to have one of the highest kill rates in the country.

"The tragic thing is that dogs die silently in Oklahoma. They die by the thousands and burying our head into the sand is not working. It's simply no working. I think it takes guts to show it and it's the right thing to do," Steinberger says.

You can help stop the silent slaughter by spay and neutering your pets and by contributing to the pet overpopulation fund.

This state fund is used to sterilize pets of low income families; a major source of our state's pet overpopulation.

You can contribute by ticking Box 16 on your state income tax form or by purchasing one of the special spay and neuter license tags.

For more information about the program, see the related website link to this story.

Pure laziness and ignorance for those who don't go through the trouble of spaying their animals...Too bad both of those traits are very prevalent in Oklahoma it seems

how horrible is that??? I have 2 dogs that own me and never once have I thought about not taking care of them.

That is pure stupidity on owners part, if you cant take care of them don't get them... They are the innocent ones in all this they cant tell you what they need.

Take care of them like you would yourself..

I think every pet store and group who promotes pet adoption should play Channel 4's news story to every potential pet owner before they buy/adopt a pet.

What burns me though is that we will spend millions of our tax dollars for 'dog pounds' when that money would be better spent offering low cost ($10-$20) spaying/nuetering to every pet owner.

The average cost to spay or nueter is $60-$115.

Many will say that is a small price to pay. But obviously it is an obstacle or it wouldn't be such an issue (other than laziness).

Personally, I would make it a city ordinance requiring a license for each dog or cat a person owns. This would limit the number a person has more effectively and I would offer a discounted rate on the license if the animal was 'fixed.'

I think every pet store and group who promotes pet adoption should play Channel 4's news story to every potential pet owner before they buy/adopt a pet.

What burns me though is that we will spend millions of our tax dollars for 'dog pounds' when that money would be better spent offering low cost ($10-$20) spaying/nuetering to every pet owner.

The average cost to spay or nueter is $60-$115.

Many will say that is a small price to pay. But obviously it is an obstacle or it wouldn't be such an issue (other than laziness).

Personally, I would make it a city ordinance requiring a license for each dog or cat a person owns. This would limit the number a person has more effectively and I would offer a discounted rate on the license if the animal was 'fixed.'

There already IS an ordinance requiring dogs to be licensed. Not cats, only dogs. Plus, there is an ordinance that says you may only legally own four adult dogs without a kennel license.

Plus. There is a place on the southeast side (I think around the 200 block of S. Santa Fe) that will spay or neuter dogs and cats for a very low fee if your income is below $30,000. That gives no reason or excuse for not taking responsibility. The only exception is breeding which most breeders are very responsible people.

I saw the KFOR report. Not many things make me sick to my stomach. That one did. Do I think it should be shown in pet stores, etc? No. Maybe to pet adopters as a requirement for adoption unless they can proove they have experience and took responsibility for the animal.

On a related note. One thing that also made me ill was that Oklahoma City has an ordinance requiring the euthanaization of Pit Bulls if they are not reclaimed by owners. It is the owner that makes a dog aggressive, not the breed.

There already IS an ordinance requiring dogs to be licensed.

Actually there is NO license required in OKC on a dog - Only some exotic pets.

Vaccinations however ARE required and you can be arrested for it.

I personally think it is insane to only offer low cost spaying for low income.

Actually there is NO license required in OKC on a dog - Only some exotic pets.

Vaccinations however ARE required and you can be arrested for it.

I personally think it is insane to only offer low cost spaying for low income.

Incorrect. You must have the dogs rabies tag on it.

Plus. Unless it is a continuing offense, violation is not a arrestable offense. It is by citation.

I use to be an animal control officer and have kept up on the law.

Also. Why give low cost services to people that can afford them? In fact, $30,000 income is too high for a freebie as it is.

my God.. the talents are endless on this board.. tee hee.. now I know where to go if I need oil drilling expertise, tectonic plate movement knowledge, call center advice, customer service hints, policy enforcement rules, political answers, expert advice on dead body disposal, moral rights and wrongs in black and white, child rearing help on respecting your elders, and last but not least, rabid animal regulations policies here in OK...

my God.. the talents are endless on this board.. tee hee.. now I know where to go if I need oil drilling expertise, tectonic plate movement knowledge, call center advice, customer service hints, policy enforcement rules, political answers, expert advice on dead body disposal, moral rights and wrongs in black and white, child rearing help on respecting your elders, and last but not least, rabid animal regulations policies here in OK...

Now we agree. I learned earthquakes in college, learned something about the oil industry from the wildcatters like my dad and Boone Pickens, learned call center and company (what you call customer service) policies from OTJ, political answers from the polticians from a state senator all the way up to a sitting US house speaker, respecting my elders from my parents (something that is rarely taught today), animal regulations from being in the profession at one time, etc, etc, etc. Where the dead body removal came from I do not remember what thread it is in reference to.

So I have a lot of deversified experience and I choose to use it. Not one person can fault me for that.:congrats: :tiphat:

how horrible is that??? I have 2 dogs that own me and never once have I thought about not taking care of them.

That is pure stupidity on owners part, if you cant take care of them don't get them... They are the innocent ones in all this they cant tell you what they need.

Take care of them like you would yourself..
I totally agree with you. As a matter of fact, when we first adopted our dog, she wasn't old enough to be spayed. The fee we paid to adopt her, included spaying once she was old enough.

As soon as she was ready, we had her spayed. We have had her now for over 3 years and she is the best dog I have ever had. We take her often to get groomed and we always keep up with her yearly shots. She is part of our family.

Incorrect. You must have the dogs rabies tag on it.

Plus. Unless it is a continuing offense, violation is not a arrestable offense. It is by citation.

I use to be an animal control officer and have kept up on the law.


must you promote your ignorance so flagrantly Anderson?

Actually, arrests for failure to vaccinate ones dog are (though mind numbingly stupid) fairly common and usually are the result of a dog owner with an attitude.

The charge is coded as "FAIL VAC DOG CR AD5."

I would think a former accomplished dog catcher such as yourself would know you 1.) Don't need a "dog license" as you previously and incorrectly stated and 2.) you can and people do get arrested for not vaccinating their dog.

must you promote your ignorance so flagrantly Anderson?

Actually, arrests for failure to vaccinate ones dog are (though mind numbingly stupid) fairly common and usually are the result of a dog owner with an attitude.

The charge is coded as "FAIL VAC DOG CR AD5."

I would think a former accomplished dog catcher such as yourself would know you 1.) Don't need a "dog license" as you previously and incorrectly stated and 2.) you can and people do get arrested for not vaccinating their dog.

First. I am not ignorant, and the use of that term is an insult. How would you feel if someone called you that?

Second. The term is Animal Control Officer. Not dog catcher. An Animal Control Officer is a specialized, commisioned peace officer. Many have the same level of authority as any police officer. All can do misdomenor arrests, cite people, etc.

And. Yes. You do need a "license." It is called a tag. And it must be displayed on the dog.

Plus. The only time someone gets physically arrested for a violation of the vaccination laws is for either repeat offenses or if they defy the authority of the officer. It is VERY rare. It is only a citable offense in 99.99999% of cases.

How would you feel if someone called you that?
I've been called much worse - but i don't run off and cry about it to the mods.

There are many things I openly consider myself 'ignorant' about; car repair, electrical work, carpentry, literature.... The list goes on. The difference between you and I is that I can acknowledge my weak areas.

I called the city and they were very clear - "you do not need to purchase a 'dog' license or any other license for a common domestic pet. Only exotic animals."

The only 'tag' they said that needs to be on the dog is one that shows it has been vaccinated - No dogs name, owern's addresss or anything else is required.


The only time someone gets physically arrested for a violation of the vaccination laws is for either repeat offenses or if they defy the authority of the officer.

Nice little shuffle there ex-Dog Catcher. I actually said it was usually the result of a dog owner with an attitude. I can get the numbers on Monday if you like, but I was told about 7-12 people per year are arrested in OKC for the charge of failure to vaccinate.

This is the link to SPOT, which is an acronym for stop pet overpopulation now. This is the free or low cost spay clinic.

Welcome! (http://www.vawokc.org/main.asp?id=19)

spot, eh? more like spot remover...

-M

I accidentally spilled spot remover on my dog, and now he's gone.

Hello everyone, new here and wanted to ask if anyone knew of any "pet homes" in the area. Our cat popped out a few cute furry kittens (any takers?) I have a couple weeks untill I can give them away... but I would MUCH rather find somewhere to take them to ensure they find good homes. Any advice?

Thank you all!

This is the link to SPOT, which is an acronym for stop pet overpopulation now. This is the free or low cost spay clinic.



Hmmmm, not that i would dare question Anderson but wouldn't that be S.P.O.N.

Hmmmm, not that i would dare question Anderson but wouldn't that be S.P.O.N.

Actually, the one to question would be the clinic.

Actually, the one to question would be the clinic.


Why's that? They clearly state their name as Stop Pet Overpopulation TODAY = SPOT

Why's that? They clearly state their name as Stop Pet Overpopulation TODAY = SPOT

I guess I misread it.

Just a funny.. Control the pet population have your spouse spayed or neutured..lmao

JK

I love the fact this topic is being discussed here. And I was thrilled that KFOR did their "Silent Slaughter" piece and actually showed the euthanasia to the public. It's one of the most painful parts of animal rescue...having to watch perfectly wonderful animals euthed b/c people are too ignorant to get their animals spayed or neutered.

A couple of points that were addressed above:
The VAW SPOT clinic is for those with $35K income and below. They are situated in a neighborhood that is easily served by this income level.

Low cost spay/neuter is offered only to low income folks b/c it costs more than $25 to do the surgery. The people who work at those clinics are either volunteers or are paid very little. They do the work because they love animals and desperately want to help correct the problem of pet overpopulation which is RAMPANT in this state, as evidenced by "OKCComputers" who has allowed the family cat to pop out a litter of more unwanted cats.

Also, the spay/neuter surgery can be done MUCH earlier than 6 months of age, which is an "old school" vet preference. Early age spay/neuter can be done from 8 - 16 weeks of age in both dogs and cats, which would greatly reduce the possibility of unwanted litters.

Finally, I agree about the Pit bull issue. It's sad and unfortunate, but you must remember the stereotypical pit bull owner is someone who wants a mean, agressive, junkyard dog. I know there are plenty of good homes out there, but sadly, those are the exception around here for some reason.

Okay, stepping off the soapbox now.

Again, I'm really pleased that you all are discussing this issue. Hopefully, in the near future, you will all hear of the great things that are coming to get our city to "no kill" by the year 2010. Great plans, indeed!

Be it $30,000 or $35,000. People with incomes that high can afford the fees. If nothing else, pay for it with plastic.

If we have low cost or free services to people with incomes that high, then we need to make every service that high. Such as medicaid, food susbdies (which use to be called food stamps), etc.

here is a good way to judge if you can afford a pet? Can you afford the vet bills once a year for check ups and shots? Can you afford to have them fixed? Can you afford good food and fresh water for them ? Mostly can you afford to love them before you love yourself..

Remember our pets are innocent they cant tell you they are sick or need something. It is up to you to make sure your pets live a long great life in a home that can 1. take care of them and 2. love them forever!!!

Please be responsible and take care of your furry friends.

I will post pics of my babies that own me.. Cowgirl and Gizmo!!!

Be it $30,000 or $35,000. People with incomes that high can afford the fees. If nothing else, pay for it with plastic.

If we have low cost or free services to people with incomes that high, then we need to make every service that high. Such as medicaid, food susbdies (which use to be called food stamps), etc.

What point are you even trying to make with your ridiculous statements? Pay for it with plastic? Let me explain to you how credit cards work...they actually have to PAY BACK what they charged, with interest. Therefore charging a $100 surgery will cost them MORE in the long run. How does that benefit anyone?

The fact is, there is low cost spay/neuter service available to low income people. That is because people with incomes $35K and lower usually will spend their money on other necessities before they will pay to neuter an animal. For once, can't you just be happy it's available and stop complaining about it (and everything else unrelated to the thread)? Geez...

And as an added note, Anderson, I was clarifying the income level so anyone who may be reading this and would qualify could use the services.

What point are you even trying to make with your ridiculous statements? Pay for it with plastic? Let me explain to you how credit cards work...they actually have to PAY BACK what they charged, with interest. Therefore charging a $100 surgery will cost them MORE in the long run. How does that benefit anyone?

The fact is, there is low cost spay/neuter service available to low income people. That is because people with incomes $35K and lower usually will spend their money on other necessities before they will pay to neuter an animal. For once, can't you just be happy it's available and stop complaining about it (and everything else unrelated to the thread)? Geez...

And as an added note, Anderson, I was clarifying the income level so anyone who may be reading this and would qualify could use the services.

It is simple. People with incomes as high as their maximum can easily afford things. They do not need help.

It is simple. People with incomes as high as their maximum can easily afford things. They do not need help.

As always, your absurd comments never cease to amaze me.

Combined my husband and I are fine financially, but I will say that we still appreciated and used our free neuter certificate we received from Pets and People when we adopted Tolstoy.

Just because people make more money than the poverty level doesn't mean they can always afford everything so easily.

"Unfortunately, this animal; there's nothing medically wrong with this animal.
Unfortunately we have to euthanize because of space," Gannon says.


Fallacy!

Euthanasia is defined as
"the act or practice of killing or permitting the death of hopelessly sick or injured individuals (as persons or domestic animals) in a relatively painless way for reasons of mercy"
(see euthanasia - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/euthanasia))

Gannon kills these healthy animals.

Calling it euthanasia, is euphemism. An ugly one at that.



Not all euthanasia's are because of over-population. City policy requires all pit bulls, unclaimed by the owner, to be put down. They're not adoptable.


They are not adoptable only because of city policy, not for some other more sensible reason. Many pit bulls can be successfully adopted. For example, the Tompkins County SPCA successfully adopted 86% of it's pit bulls.



In general, it's a case of too many wagging tales and not enough homes.


Just not true.

According to the statistics in this
book (http://www.amazon.com/Redemption-Myth-Overpopulation-Revolution-America/dp/0979074304/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199294695&sr=8-1) more animals already in homes pass away each year (thus opening a space in a home) than are admitted to shelters.

People are willing to adopt animals, but everyone hates actually going to a shelter where that majority of animals are being killed. Easier to avoid the problem than contribute to fixing it.

I can't help but feel from the article that the shelter is giving excuses for killing, trying to make themselves and the public feel that it is necessary and OK to kill healthy animals, when it is not.

Furthermore, I have to disagree with the statements in this thread that blame irresponsible pet owners for the problem and thus the killing. While that is an excuse, it is just too easy. True, pet owner education and spay/neuter programs will reduce killing but changing the way shelters operate can result in more immediate reduction in killing. For example from their website, "The Oklahoma City Animal Shelter is open for adopting or reclaiming pets from noon to 4:45 p.m." Not many working individuals can adopt animals during those hours. Having just one evening open for adoption will result in fewer deaths.

OKCcrime

It has been my observation that plenty of people not only don't consider the cost of spaying when they get a pet, they don't even consider the cost of vaccinations, medication and FOOD. They want their children to have the valuable experience of seeing puppies be born but don't teach social and fiscal responsibility. Plus, it would be "cruel" to deny a dog a sex life. Sigh. The idea that all these pups are being slaughtered is sickening. Breaks your heart, doesn't it? And so avoidable.

Also, how the shelter's operate, hours, etc., affects dogs already born. If never conceived, they aren't an issue. Reduce the pet population at the source and there are probably plenty of people available to adopt the adoptable animals at the shelter. I also don't agree with a one to one correlation on pets dying at home and opening up a slot, so to speak. Many people are elderly and don't plan to replace their dog. In our home, we recently lost our old dog and aren't in the market to get another for another 5 - 6 years since we have two more and don't want an "overlap" (have three dogs) for more than a couple of years.

The pit bull problem is another heart breaker. I would never have a pit because I have found them to be unpredictable. But they are sooooo lovable! I work with children in the court system and one of my "kids" was visiting a family member with a sweet, sweet pit. I've met her. Unfortunately, the dog bit the little boy and they hadn't taken the responsible steps of getting her rabies vaccination. The little boy is in the process of having to take rabies shots, the dog is in quarantine and we all know the poor thing will not be returned. Again, so avoidable and such a heart breaking situation.

OKCCrime, I have alot of respect for you due to your patience and rescue of Jack the Pumpkin King, but some of your statements need rebuttal.

The easiest item for me to point out is that the OKC Shelter is open Tues thru Sun from noon to 5:45pm for adoptions/reclaims. Plenty of people are able to make it out on Saturdays and Sundays.

Yes, pits are not allowed to be adopted out from the shelter (though they can be reclaimed if proof of ownership is shown). However, many of the people who want to adopt pits aren't looking for something to cuddle with...I've actually heard kids saying they wanted to adopt a specific type of dog because it's "mean" or will fight! The city is not allowed to "choose" who can adopt an animal, so the city chose to not allow pits to be adopted from the shelter. Sadly, it's for our protection as well as the dog's protection.

Euthanasia - defined by dictionary.com - painless death. That is what is done b/c of space issues. Because more animals come in than go out. Because there are other organizations that have animals available for adoption besides city shelters. Because of breeders. Because people think it's no big deal not to spay or neuter. Because of the fact that not everyone who loses a pet wants another one to replace it. (I can personally think of 4 people off the top of my head that have lost pets and don't want to replace them.) Because people are fickle about their pets..."it's just a dog/cat/hamster". Because people don't want to take the time to train their pet properly and get annoyed when FiFi won't stop barking at the doorbell. It's truly heartwrenching, but it's a fact. I know of an animal that was taken back to the shelter b/c it didn't bark enough. Huh? I'd LOVE that!

While the book you reference is actually on my "to read" list, I don't buy into the full message (though I acknowledge I need to read it before I can completely disagree). I've seen the overcrowding/euthanasia/etc and it's heartbreaking, but adoptions also come in cycles. There is not a steady stream of people all the time...sometimes that shelter is full to the brim, and other times, there are way too many animals, and some have to be put down. Until someone can cure the cyclical nature of the consumer, it will continue to be a problem.

Incidentally, the shelter (and city) is working toward a goal of "No Kill" for adoptable animals by 2010. If you're really that disturbed by what you read, you should find out more about the goal and see how you can help reach it. The shelter always needs volunteers for outreaches and fostering of animals. If you have the time, you should consider it...it's very rewarding.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, the shelter has "adoption specials" to try and increase the number of animals adopted, so it's not as though they don't try.

Special rates
A special reduced rate of $25 will be charged to adopt animals that meet any of the following criteria:

eligible for adoption more than 14 days
two or more pets adopted together ($25 each)
pets four years of age or olderAnd, they have lowered the "normal" adoption fee to $50.

OKCCrime, I have alot of respect for you due to your patience and rescue of Jack the Pumpkin King

Thank you.



the OKC Shelter is open Tues thru Sun from noon to 5:45pm for adoptions/reclaims. Plenty of people are able to make it out on Saturdays and Sundays.


Undisputed. My point is just that simply extending or shifting one day's open hours to evening hours WILL increase the number of animals that escape death at no to very low cost.



The city is not allowed to "choose" who can adopt an animal, so the city chose to not allow pits to be adopted from the shelter.


I was not aware that the shelter could not choose to whom they would adopt an animal in the way that many other shelters place regulations on to whom they adopt out animals. If that is shelter policy or even city code, we should work to get this changed. It doesn't make sense. Pit Bull Rescue Organizations often set higher hurdles for adoption in order to be sure to avoid negative outcomes.



Euthanasia - defined by dictionary.com - painless death.


This is in fact the second definition provided by dictionary.com. The first is "the act of putting to death painlessly or allowing to die, as by withholding extreme medical measures, a person or animal suffering from an incurable, esp. a painful, disease or condition". Enough battling of the dictionaries however. I was just pointing out how we choose and use words to justify our actions and assuage our guilt in this situation (as I suppose we do in many other ethically tenuous situations).



not everyone who loses a pet wants another one to replace it. (I can personally think of 4 people off the top of my head that have lost pets and don't want to replace them.)


True enough. However, I can personally think of 4 pet owners who if prodded would willing adopt another pet. Heck, when my last dog passed away, we wanted to adopt another but waited over a year for fate to hit us on the head when we rescued Jack. We're blessed with Jack, but we should have adopted another pet earlier, or at least fostered in the meantime. We would have easily adopted earlier if our local shelter or rescue organization had reached out to us telling us of the need to save lives, helping us find that right animal. To my knowledge, and I may be mistaken, the OKC shelter doesn't have such an outreach program, and it is a shame. It would result in fewer killings.



Because people are fickle about their pets..."it's just a dog/cat/hamster". Because people don't want to take the time to train their pet properly and get annoyed when FiFi won't stop barking at the doorbell. It's truly heartwrenching, but it's a fact. I know of an animal that was taken back to the shelter b/c it didn't bark enough. Huh? I'd LOVE that!


Yes, I hear what you are saying about other people. I've heard even more tortured stories about animals left at the shelter. However, these are not excuses to kill animals in mass proportions (The OKC shelter alone killed over 18,000 cats and dogs in 2007). I understand that these other people are contributing to the problem. Unfortunately, changing people is a tough battle to fight. Instead we can dramatically reduce or eliminate the killing by changing our shelter and it's policies. Other shelters in large cities have succeeded in doing just this. So can ours.



the book you reference is actually on my "to read" list .....
Until someone can cure the cyclical nature of the consumer, it will continue to be a problem.


The book is "Redemption: The Myth of Pet Overpopulation and the No Kill Revolution in America"
authored by Nathan J. Winograd, who established the nation's first no kill shelter.
http://www.nathanwinograd.com/

In this book, Winograd describes just how he cured the 'cyclical nature' of the problem and lays out a road map of programs and policies that shelters can implement to dramatically reduce the number of animals killed.

If you do not have a copy of this book, I'll gladly buy you, or any member of OKCTALK a copy if you (they) will promise to immediately read it and discuss it on this forum. Just send me an email - support@okccrime.com - include your name and mailing address and put Redemption in the subject line.



Incidentally, the shelter (and city) is working toward a goal of "No Kill" for adoptable animals by 2010.


As pointed out in Redemption, many shelters have co-opted the no-kill movement by announcing no-kill 'trajectories' or announcing low-kill plans. In many cases this is just a ploy to get the public off their back with hopes that their feet won't be held to the fire down the line.

I know nothing about the plans put in place by the shelter to reach this goal by 2010. However I'm very skeptical we will reach it.

The OKC shelter just isn't doing so well on it's trajectory.
2006 kills - 19,365
(from http://www.projectanimallife.com/)
2007 kills - over 18,000 (from http://www.okhumane.org/articles_oklahoma_humane/article_0007.htm)

That puts us on course for 14,000 kills by 2010, i.e not no-kill.



Oh, and I forgot to mention, the shelter has "adoption specials" to try and increase the number of animals adopted, so it's not as though they don't try.


They try, but no where near enough. Only 4000 adoptions last year and 18000 killings.



If you're really that disturbed by what you read, you should find out more about the goal and see how you can help reach it.


Money -> Mouth. I hope my offer to buy Redemption for any and all comers has some impact. Oh yeah and then there is Jack, our contribution to the OKC unadoptable stray problem.

Okccrime

----
http://okccrime.com

You have some great comments, Okccrime, but alas you disappointed me by just complaining about the issue and not making a committment to see what you can do to help fix it.

However doubtful you may be, there are numerous volunteers who get together with representatives of the HSUS, the OKC Shelter, other resuce groups, etc. on at least a monthly basis to progress in this goal. Emails fly back and forth, people are working on this constantly, with backing of Mayor Cornett, as well.

I might also offer the comment that the OKC Shelter cannot make these changes on their own. It requires assistance from rescue groups, education programs, the public, etc.

While I do appreciate what you have read in the book (and though I appreciate the offer, I will happily purchase my own), and I can guarantee the folks involved with OKC's progress have read the book, you seem to want to be a bystander pointing out flaws rather than gaining a full understanding of our city's challenges and seeing what you can do to help it.

We can argue until the cows come home, but I can stand firm on what I say because I AM involved in it and I am member of the groups who are fighting to make this work. I've seen the difficulties we face, and they aren't all just related to the number of animals that come through the door.

As an add: I appreciate your contribution of Jack. :)

I appreciate your contribution of Jack. :)
...
I am involved in it and I am member of the groups who are fighting to make this work.


Thank you, I sincerely appreciate your efforts too.

We clearly have the same goal, to save the lives of animals. Where we might differ is on our views about how to achieve those goals.


alas you disappointed me by ... not making a commitment to see what you can do to help fix it.

Huh? I believe I just made a significant financial commitment towards the education of OKTALK members on the 'no kill' movement by offering to purchase, any and all comers, a copy of Redemption. Just because my contribution is a different one than yours, please do not discount or denigrate it.

Furthermore, please consider that rebuking me isn't likely to make me engage and make more of a commitment than I already have. Take some inspiration form positive dog training methods (they work on people as well). Reward the best behaviors and ignore the others. Don't punish bad behaviors, redirect them. Punishment leads to more problems than it solves.



you seem to want to be a bystander pointing out flaws rather than gaining a full understanding of our city's challenges and seeing what you can do to help it.


On the contrary. I think it demonstrative of my desire to understand the problem that I am actively reading up on this issue, researching statistics and engaging in conversations in the public commons. Just because someone is not a shelter volunteer or employee, it doesn't mean their viewpoint is invalid or unworthy of consideration.



We can argue until the cows come home


I'm sorry if I seem unduly argumentative. My only desire with my posts is to place a counter-point to the prevalent view of the public and the views represented in this thread. Mass killing of animals (on average, 50 animals per day at the OKC shelter) is not OK and it is not necessary or humane.

I actually enjoy discussing this issue and think it does good to talk about these issues in a public forum where everyday pet owners are likely to read and contribute to the discussion.

If we don't stop to take a look at the signs along the path, we'll never know if we are on the right one.

OKCcrime

Honest differences in opinion regarding how best to contribute. Thanks to everyone for the interest and support of protecting animals. I am proud to stand with either one of you against the yahoos out there who think dogs are, essentially, livestock.

here is a good way to judge if you can afford a pet? Can you afford the vet bills once a year for check ups and shots? Can you afford to have them fixed? Can you afford good food and fresh water for them ? Mostly can you afford to love them before you love yourself..

Remember our pets are innocent they cant tell you they are sick or need something. It is up to you to make sure your pets live a long great life in a home that can 1. take care of them and 2. love them forever!!!

Please be responsible and take care of your furry friends.

I absolutly agree! And why oh why do people have a dog and just leave it in the backyard exposed to the harsh elements? I never could understand this.

I absolutly agree! And why oh why do people have a dog and just leave it in the backyard exposed to the harsh elements? I never could understand this.

I don't like the fact that some people keep their dogs outside all of the time. However, I understand how and why it happens so often.

Family buys puppy. Family plays with puppy but doesn't train puppy. Family doesn't buy puppy any chew toys. Puppy chews everything in sight. Puppy grows up to become Cujo. Cujo gets put outside when he runs around in the house. Cujo gets put outside when he chews on the furniture. Cujo gets put outside when the family is away during the day. Putting Cujo outside becomes rewarding for the family because it keeps the furniture from being damaged. Cujo's desire to chew on furniture grows as his access is increasingly limited. Cujo goes right for the antique chair leg as if it were a t-bone steak whenever he gets let inside. Cujo keeps getting put outside more and more often. Cujo rarely gets let inside. Cujo becomes an outside dog. Cujo misses the puppy days when he slept in a warm bed each night with Timmy. Cujo wonders why he has to bark so much and so loudly to get his owners to pay any attention to him. Family thinks they must have gotten a bad dog from the breeder. Neither Cujo nor the family is happy.

I don't like the fact that some people keep their dogs outside all of the time. However, I understand how and why it happens so often.

Family buys puppy. Family plays with puppy but doesn't train puppy. Family doesn't buy puppy any chew toys. Puppy chews everything in sight. Puppy grows up to become Cujo. Cujo gets put outside when he runs around in the house. Cujo gets put outside when he chews on the furniture. Cujo gets put outside when the family is away during the day. Putting Cujo outside becomes rewarding for the family because it keeps the furniture from being damaged. Cujo's desire to chew on furniture grows as his access is increasingly limited. Cujo goes right for the antique chair leg as if it were a t-bone steak whenever he gets let inside. Cujo keeps getting put outside more and more often. Cujo rarely gets let inside. Cujo becomes an outside dog. Cujo misses the puppy days when he slept in a warm bed each night with Timmy. Cujo wonders why he has to bark so much and so loudly to get his owners to pay any attention to him. Family thinks they must have gotten a bad dog from the breeder. Neither Cujo nor the family is happy.

You certainly have that right. And how horrible that it does.

I can't even watch Oprah today... no way...

Puppy mills and Kill Shelters.. I lasted about 2 mintutes before sobbing hysterically, I can't take it... sheesh, guys, if it's the last thing you do.. go spay and neuter your animals.

Anyone have a new link for discount or free Services in the metro?

THANK YOU for posting this topic.

I can't even watch Oprah today... no way...

Puppy mills and Kill Shelters.. I lasted about 2 mintutes before sobbing hysterically, I can't take it... sheesh, guys, if it's the last thing you do.. go spay and neuter your animals.

I caught the last 20 minutes, where she aired the package about the blind Cocker and the Fort Worth animal shelter. It's absolutely tragic so many very sweet, loving and otherwise adoptable animals are PUT TO DEATH daily because some idiots don't feel the need to spay and neuter.

I found it particularly interesting that one of the speakers noted than in high puppy-mill states (he mentioned Ohio, Pennsylvania and other states with heavy agriculture), these animals are considered no more important than really just an ear of corn. They are stock, plain and simple. A commodity to be sold for money with no concern for their health, emotional well-being or welfare.

I'm taping the "late night" repeat of Oprah tonight. Don't know I'll be able to sit through Lisa Ling's report on the puppy mills. She admitted that she cried for about 2 days after finishing filming there because the experience was so horrific.

Anyone have a new link for discount or free Services in the metro?


Stop Pet Overpopulation Today

405-606-8476

2017 S. Santa Fe, Oklahoma City, 73109
(http://www.vawokc.org/main.asp?id=19)

Puppy mills and Kill Shelters.. .. go spay and neuter your animals.


I know that it isn't as easy to swallow as "those uneducated poor people never spay their pets", but as responsible for the problem is "those overeducated image-conscious snobs who must get a purebred dog from a breeder instead of from a shelter". It is as important to stem the demand (people buy puppy mill dogs, else they wouldn't exist) as it is to stem the source (unwanted animal births). I bet they didn't mention that on Opera.

Stop Pet Overpopulation Today

405-606-8476

2017 S. Santa Fe, Oklahoma City, 73109

Thank you for that link.

I think it will be a long time before I can stop thinking about these animals ..it's their eyes... that's what kills me, those trusting eyes.

Yes, yes, the puppy mills issue was addressed as well, I just couldn't watch it.

I think Oprah mentioned that she will never again buy a purebred dog and only get her dogs from a shelter in the future.

I know that it isn't as easy to swallow as "those uneducated poor people never spay their pets", but as responsible for the problem is "those overeducated image-conscious snobs who must get a purebred dog from a breeder instead of from a shelter". It is as important to stem the demand (people buy puppy mill dogs, else they wouldn't exist) as it is to stem the source (unwanted animal births). I bet they didn't mention that on Opera.>>

Some people aren't happy unless they are trashing other people.

I have purebred dogs and snobbery has nothing to do with it. Moreover, from the tone of your post, you clearly have no idea what goes in to "adopting" a purebred from a reputable breeder. When we bring a puppy into the family, it is a family member and we'll be responsible for its happiness and welbeing for up to 18 years. To adopt a purebred from a responsible breeder, you have to go through a process similar to adopting an infant. We had to demonstrate a history with the breed, appropriate premises, appropcirate finances, plans to care for the dog when she was a puppy and sick, etc. I want to know what I am getting into and no responsible breeder is going to allow an ignorant yahoo with cash to take their pup. You don't buy a purebred from a responsible breeder, generally, absent an agreement to neuter (unless they are show dogs are purchased with the intent to breed). A responsible breeder is only going to sell a dog not intended to be neutered to a responsible show-er. Certainly, there are a lot of "purebred dog breeders" out there who aren't that good. They are better than puppy millers but you need to be careful. There is no way that those "snobs" as you put it are just as guilty as the ignorants who buy from mills. I suggest you do a bit of research before you make such a sweeping statement. In a span of 25 years, this family will impact 3 - 4 dogs that will be lovingly and responsibily cared for. They are members of the family. There will be no puppies that end up in the mills. Lumping our dogs in the same category as the poor wretches who go through the mills and petstores, simply because they are purebreds is ludicrous. I can promise you that not one of our girls' litters ended up in such a situation short of something utterly unavoidable.

A lot of "snobs" also take in fosters to eventually be placed with suitable homes.

Seriously, do your research.

East Coast, I feel who OKCCrime was largely talking about are those people who jump on the newest "designer pet" bandwagon, and/or those that have a "we're better than a shelter dog" mentality.

"Hey labradoodles are trendy, let's get one of those. How about a schnoodle, or a puggle, or a (name your newest designer dog here)?" This sudden demand for new "designer breeds" creates a market filled with inexperienced, uneducated breeders, and creates too large a supply of pets - many with genetic defects because of poor breeding standards.

For those who are into breeding animals to participate in sport, agility trials, search and rescue training, handicapped assistance training, and even show rings, that is a fair and equitable "market" to breed. These people are usually well educated, and look out not just for the dogs they happen to own and train, but for the breed as well.

The folks who set up their wares on a street corner to make a quick buck with their supposedly "AKC registered (name your breed here)," I feel are not doing their breed much justice.

My mom has two delightful purebred dogs, the first purebreds she's ever had after about 40 years as a mutt owner. She researched several breeders. All were very careful in selecting her as a potential owner for this breed. She had to show she had done her research, and had to, in two cases, provide references to show she is a responsible pet owner (pet records and a letter from her vet). One refused to sell to her when she found out mom wanted to spay and neuter the animals. Another only allowed her to adopt after doing an inspection of my mom's house.

Your street-corner breeder is not doing that. They are selling their commodity, fair and square, with little regard for the future of those living creatures they are selling off to who knows whom. Most shelters I know are more selective about who their animals go home with than many "breeders" out there.

"Hey labradoodles are trendy, let's get one of those. How about a schnoodle, or a puggle, or a (name your newest designer dog here)?" This sudden demand for new "designer breeds" creates a market filled with inexperienced, uneducated breeders, and creates too large a supply of pets - many with genetic defects because of poor breeding standards.

I get to giggling when people want the latest "designer" crossbreeds...those mixes are easy to find at the shelter!

Mine's a "Heelherd" (Heeler/Aus shep mix)...they're truly the latest fad. :)

I have purebred dogs and snobbery has nothing to do with it. ..... A lot of "snobs" also take in fosters to eventually be placed with suitable homes.


East Coast Okie, I said "those overeducated image-conscious snobs who must get a purebred dog from a breeder instead of from a shelter". I never said "all people who buy from breeders are overeducated image-conscious snobs". FritterGirl said it well (BTW thanks FritterGirl!):



East Coast, I feel who OKCCrime was largely talking about are those people who jump on the newest "designer pet" bandwagon, and/or those that have a "we're better than a shelter dog" mentality.

"Hey labradoodles are trendy, let's get one of those. How about a schnoodle, or a puggle, or a (name your newest designer dog here)?" This sudden demand for new "designer breeds" creates a market filled with inexperienced, uneducated breeders, and creates too large a supply of pets - many with genetic defects because of poor breeding standards.

For those who are into breeding animals to participate in sport, agility trials, search and rescue training, handicapped assistance training, and even show rings, that is a fair and equitable "market" to breed. These people are usually well educated, and look out not just for the dogs they happen to own and train, but for the breed as well.




Some people aren't happy unless they are trashing other people.


When it comes to the health and well-being of innocent animals, some people really need to be trashed. Sometimes one needs to put a fine and cutting edge on a point so that it creates outrage. If the discussion was all tulips and roses, no one would ever listen let alone change.




Certainly, there are a lot of "purebred dog breeders" out there who aren't that good.


There are way more bad breeders (profit minded 'reputable" breeders, back yard breeders, puppy mills, families that want their bitch to have had the experience of just one litter) out there than good breeders. The good breeders of who you speak account for a very small minority of all the dogs purchased in the US. Note that my usage of the term breeder includes anyone who allows their animal to reproduce, including puppy mills and pet owners.



She researched several breeders. One refused to sell to her when she found out mom wanted to spay and neuter the animals.


That is disappointing. Spaying an neutering even purebred dogs is important.

It would be really interesting to see statistics on how many of the thousands of unadopted dogs killed at the OKC animal shelter were products of adopted dogs as compared to being products of purchased dogs. I'll bet my house that all but a very small minority were products of unaltered animals purchased from breeders. Especially considering that our shelter doesn't adopt out dogs that aren't altered. Thus, the overpopulation problem is directly attributable to owners who purchase their dogs from breeders and allow their dogs to reproduce.

Discourage, regulate, or eliminate breeding and we can stop the so-called pet overpopulation problem.

The problem with the large majority of people who purchase from breeders is that they are doing it with their own ends in mind and not the animals. "Labradoodles are cute", "Wegman Weimaraners are refined", "Dobermans are trainable", "Only a sheepdog is competitive in flyball", "I've got allergies, so it has to be....", "I hate dog hair on the floor...." even the well intentioned "I want a healthy long-lived dog". There are animals at the shelter NOW who need good homes. Yes, some of them have been neglected and will have health problems and won't live as long as a purebred, and might not fit exactly into your lifestyle or personal image, but can you really compare the life of one dog to another? No.

When you buy from a breeder instead of adopting from a shelter you are indirectly contributing to and responsible for the mass killing that goes on in animal shelters.

I'll say it again, discourage, regulate, or eliminate breeding and we can stop the killing.

Okay, well, I shouldn't bristle. I just wish EVERY dog came into this world through the type of breeder that treats them as one of god's creatures (not that I am religious) rather than livestock. I'd like to see jail time for people who don't care for their dogs.

Let me follow up on the notion of discouraging breeders. Obviously, we don't want breeders who are in it for the money. At the same time, when you go to a REPUTABLE breeder, you know that they have worked to eliminate genetic deficiencies such as hip dysplasia and certain other deformities. At least they do with my samoyeds. As I said, the breeders I have gone to insist that the dogs be neutered if they aren't show quality and only place the show quality with reputable show-ers. My dogs are not common like labradors, for example To get a samoyed, you are probably going to have to go to a breeder. It is not the kind of dog you are likely to get at the pound. I've actually left word at the local shelters in my area for any samoyeds that come in (to rescue) and they rarely see them. Since I began doing that, I haven't gotten a single call and I check regularly. I am not saying that samoyeds or other relatively rare dogs don't sometimes end up in a shelter, but for these types of dogs, you usually have involved owners who have had to work hard to even find one, much less dump one. People stand in line to adopt them and, accordingly, they rarely end up at a shelter. I am sure there are other breeds that are similar.

BTW - it is not the look of a samoyed that attracts me. They were bred to keep babies warm in northern Russia. I have never dealt with sweeter, more loving animals.

A couple of years ago someone dumped a litter of kittens across the street from my house. My daughter found them and brought them in, it was cold outside. I was able to find good homes for 3 of them and kept 2. Why do I have to be responsible for someone else's ignorance? I already had 2 cats and 2 dogs, now I have 4 cats. All my animals were homeless, I took them in and they're all spayed and neutered. I get tired of irresponsible people and having to take up the slack!!

live&letlive, thank you so much for the generosity of opening your home to these homeless and for being responsible by spaying/neutering your pets! I grow weary of the ignorance of irresponsible pet owners who refuse to spay/neuter for whatever stupid reason they can come up with at the time. I'm always to pleased to hear of people who actually realize there is a problem and do what they can to fix it. Good for you!!!!

Thank you sweetdaisy!

It doesn't cost that much to spay/neuter your pet. If you can't afford it, don't get one. That simple. The overpopulation of animals is a very sad situation and there aren't enough no-kill shelters to take them all in.

The overpopulation of animals is a very sad situation and there aren't enough no-kill shelters to take them all in.

There is no overpopulation of pets. Read the thread (http://www.okctalk.com/pets-forum/9061-spay-your-animals-2.html#post123049).

There is plenty of room for all the animals in this city that are killed at the shelter each year.

There is a lack of people like you who are willing to rescue and adopt animals and not enough PR effort by the city animal control shelter to convince non-pet owners that owning animals is beneficial to your health and pet owners that owning more than one pet is beneficial for both you and your current pet.

Again - please stop complaining so much about the poor behavior of some pet owners. It may be highly visible and unnerving, but it just isn't the root of the problem.

I disagree. The poor behavior of pet owners is the problem. If all pet owners were responsible, the problems wouldn't exist. And I have the right to complain because I take in animals that irresponsible people decide they don't want.

I agree with you, live&letlive. Irresponsible pet owners are a huge part of the problem. And there IS an overpopulation problem in this city and state, no matter what some people want to believe.

There are states that have been so adamant about humane eduacation and spay/neuter, their shelters have very few animals in them and they do not have to resort to euthanasia for adoptable animals.