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floater
01-17-2007, 02:46 PM
It's finally out in the open; the city is openly discussing MAPS III. What should go into it? I know this has been discussed before, but let's revisit our ideas....

You can also find Mayor Cornett's State of the City online:

City of Oklahoma City | News (http://www.okc.gov/)

SpectralMourning
01-17-2007, 03:46 PM
Nice idea of a post, actually. I'm more keen on developing a think tank of ideas before moving forward, instead of the "christmas wish list" that the website somewhat implies, which I suppose isn't a bad idea either.

My first concern is actually infrastructure improvement over other initiatives. While this does include light rail in the use of real trolleys, I'm becoming concerned with improving the qualities of our essentials. This winter storm has proven that we can barely function as a whole city after such a natural disaster. How can we improve on that without creating typically redundant routines that will end up costing us money (ie: larger salt stockpiles, more special use trucks) than it's primary worth? With wildfires and natural disasters occurring regularly, how can we improve upon our firefighting and emergency infrastructure? I'm not quite sure if a new police station should be funded, but how can we improve upon our police force, specifically anti-gang units?

With that being said, we need a definite, city-wide focus on improving the lives of younger individuals through non-profit works. While we have more than enough charities and businesses to cater to youth, none of it has a central and collective focus.

Even with all of these issues being rather larger concerns, should we use a program like MAPS III to improve these issues or use the increase for useful projects such as Core to Shore, the improvement of the CBD, light rail, or Oklahoma River venues?

mranderson
01-17-2007, 04:25 PM
An article on the KFOR website says Mick Cornett wants input as to what should be included in MAPS III. Here is the link if you want to take the "survey." It is really not a survey. It is one question.

http://www.maps3.org

metro
01-17-2007, 05:23 PM
Thanks for this post. Great website find. I posted my requests of mass transit including light rail, not just bus rapid transit.

Oh and FYI, someone just posted this topic with the same website a few hours ago in this same forum.

ETL
01-17-2007, 05:39 PM
Nice idea of a post, actually. I'm more keen on developing a think tank of ideas before moving forward, instead of the "christmas wish list" that the website somewhat implies, which I suppose isn't a bad idea either.

My first concern is actually infrastructure improvement over other initiatives. While this does include light rail in the use of real trolleys, I'm becoming concerned with improving the qualities of our essentials. This winter storm has proven that we can barely function as a whole city after such a natural disaster. How can we improve on that without creating typically redundant routines that will end up costing us money (ie: larger salt stockpiles, more special use trucks) than it's primary worth? With wildfires and natural disasters occurring regularly, how can we improve upon our firefighting and emergency infrastructure? I'm not quite sure if a new police station should be funded, but how can we improve upon our police force, specifically anti-gang units?

With that being said, we need a definite, city-wide focus on improving the lives of younger individuals through non-profit works. While we have more than enough charities and businesses to cater to youth, none of it has a central and collective focus.

Even with all of these issues being rather larger concerns, should we use a program like MAPS III to improve these issues or use the increase for useful projects such as Core to Shore, the improvement of the CBD, light rail, or Oklahoma River venues?

I concur! However, we should not use MAPS III for this, but we should utilize the state wide entities that we have or create a new one.

Kerry
01-17-2007, 06:27 PM
1. Rail system. If you want state of the art - think maglev.
2. 60,000 seat Heartland Castle stadium (OSU/Texas Tech game, Heartland Bowl, MLS Soccer, NCAA Soccer Championsip, high school football, MLS).
3. New City/County/State office building.
4. City Icon (and it better not be a giant spinning spur)
5. City subsidized air service with existing airlines and not a start-up (aka Great Plains).

I would also like to see some changes to city ordnances to help intice high-rise development or maybe a casino district.

CuatrodeMayo
01-17-2007, 06:35 PM
Heartland Castle stadium

Are you thinking a medeval themed stadium?

mranderson
01-17-2007, 07:02 PM
Are you thinking a medeval themed stadium?

Yes. There are some of us who have been around for several years. We designed a domed stadium (in theory) that resembled a castle. One of us, I think either Kerry or Patrick thought of the name Heartland Castle. We also added a Medevil theme park to be next to it.

In the Heartland Dome, we also thought of a bowl game called the Heartland Bowl.

Keith
01-17-2007, 07:15 PM
Here is your chance to voice your opinion.

Mayor asks for input on MAPS 3


Should Oklahoma City consider a MAPS 3? If so, what types of projects should be included? That’s what Mayor Mick Cornett wants to learn from citizens.


Cornett announced today at his annual State of the City address that he is seeking input on a possible MAPS 3 initiative. He is encouraging people of all ages to log on to www.maps3.org (http://www.maps3.org/) and take an on-line survey, weighing in on their opinions and ideas for a new plan.


“MAPS and ‘MAPS for Kids’ have been so successful that I believe we owe it to ourselves to at least consider what more can be done to improve Oklahoma City,” said Mayor Cornett.


The Web site will accept ideas through May 15, 2007. Anyone that logs on to the site can complete the survey, regardless of residency.


Not only does Cornett want to know if people will support a MAPS 3, but he is also asking them to post their project ideas and drawings to the Web site. “The more visionary and ambitious idea, the better. The projects of a MAPS 3 should benefit our children and grandchildren and immediately propel Oklahoma City decades into the future,” Mayor Cornett said.


Teachers are specifically encouraged to discuss MAPS 3 with their students and submit project ideas online.


Timing played a critical role in rolling out the MAPS 3 website. “Not a day goes by that someone doesn’t ask me if we are going to embark on a MAPS 3. But I wasn’t ready to have that discussion until the end of the “MAPS for Kids” funding was in sight,” added Cornett.



The sales tax for “MAPS for Kids” will end in December 2008.


In addition to the survey, the MAPS 3 Web site also features a question and answer section, background information on MAPS and “MAPS for Kids,” biographies on City Council Members and Mayor Cornett’s State of the City address.

Kerry
01-17-2007, 08:36 PM
Are you thinking a medeval themed stadium?

Heartland Castle is a stadium sunken into the ground so that when you enter at ground level you are between the first and second deck. The exterior would be built to resemble a castle. By sinking the stadium halfway in the ground, it will reduce construction cost for the castle effect.

The effect would be completed by surrounding the stadium with a mote connected to the Bricktown canal. Drawbridges would cross the canal to provide assess to stadium entrances. Outside of that would be a large park. The park would actually be built on the top of large parking garages for game day traffic (this has been done in many cities). The park would include picnic areas, Frisbee golf, an amphitheater, and playground. Throughout the park would be large sculptures or replicas of siege weapons. If a developer was so inclined, a shopping district resembling a European village could be built next to the stadium.

The stadium would have many uses but here are the main ones. The Heartland Bowl would pit the two best teams that did not get a Bowl invitation anywhere else. This means we would have some very good mid-major teams. The game would also be played two weeks after the end of the regular season. This would give OKC some good national coverage. All proceeds would go to support the OKC National Memorial. OSU and Baylor could use the stadium as a neutral site for football games (it would add excitement to otherwise useless game). It would also host MLS or high school football.

floater
01-17-2007, 09:01 PM
Kerry has been pushing the Heartland Castle for as long as I can remember. :tiphat:

If the State of the City address is any indication, I think public transportation will have a place in MAPS III. The first one or two phases suggested by the fixed guideway study could be financed this way. It is definitely a city function, and it serves an underserved population (seniors, tourists, non-car owners, those just tired of driving).

Once again, it is great that Mayor Cornett suggests we dream big.

BG918
01-17-2007, 10:46 PM
Light Rail system downtown!!! And instead of a giant stadium create "starter" funds to create a new Oklahoma City attraction: a National Weather Museum and Science Center. Nowhere that I know of (I may be wrong) does a museum exist that solely is based on weather, the science and history of one of the most interesting natural phenomona. Oklahoma is perfect for such a museum and science center because we experience so many different types of severe weather and we are a center for global weather research and education. It would be an awesome new attraction for downtown Oklahoma City. But yes the light rail system should be #1 priority for MAPS III. That could then spur a regional effort in getting commuter rail built between Edmond and Norman.

SpectralMourning
01-17-2007, 11:24 PM
That's a fantastic idea so long as it serves as more of an institute in itself along with general public education. I'm also surprised that Oklahoma City still isn't a beacon for studying domestic terrorism by now.

As for now, I think it would be fantastic to spur the growth of the fixed guideway study as well as Core to Shore through MAPS III. ETL was correct in using current and separate legislation in influencing infrastructure. MAPS has always been more of a special events legislation and should continue to do so.

FGS shouldn't be focused in the extreme long-term when compared to MAPS. improving mass transit on the scale proposed should take at least 10-15 years if stimulated through the MAPS program, rather than the 25 years proposed. It would also be fantastic to see an elaborate intermodal center akin to the Cincinnati Union Terminal (in fact, I think Oklahoma City can learn much from Cincinnati in terms of growth and attractions) in grandeur and architecture, or even South Station in Boston.

CuatrodeMayo
01-18-2007, 02:44 AM
Heartland Castle is a stadium sunken into the ground so that when you enter at ground level you are between the first and second deck. The exterior would be built to resemble a castle. By sinking the stadium halfway in the ground, it will reduce construction cost for the castle effect.

The effect would be completed by surrounding the stadium with a mote connected to the Bricktown canal. Drawbridges would cross the canal to provide assess to stadium entrances. Outside of that would be a large park. The park would actually be built on the top of large parking garages for game day traffic (this has been done in many cities). The park would include picnic areas, Frisbee golf, an amphitheater, and playground. Throughout the park would be large sculptures or replicas of siege weapons. If a developer was so inclined, a shopping district resembling a European village could be built next to the stadium.

The stadium would have many uses but here are the main ones. The Heartland Bowl would pit the two best teams that did not get a Bowl invitation anywhere else. This means we would have some very good mid-major teams. The game would also be played two weeks after the end of the regular season. This would give OKC some good national coverage. All proceeds would go to support the OKC National Memorial. OSU and Baylor could use the stadium as a neutral site for football games (it would add excitement to otherwise useless game). It would also host MLS or high school football.


Please do not be offended, but that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. A stadium I can see, and a parking garage is good, but a faux castle and medeval village...in OK? That reminds me of a hotel in Tulsa. Good luck on trying to get OSU to give up a home game in T. Boone's palace.

(cue sarcasm)

I'm sure the Toilet Bowl would draw enormous crowds and fabulous nation coverage...just like the Texas Bowl.

I must say...A Castle-themed will go a long way in showing the world we are truely a world-class city.

:ou

Sorry...

mranderson
01-18-2007, 04:01 AM
"I'm sure the Toilet Bowl would draw enormous crowds and fabulous nation coverage...just like the Texas Bowl."

No one said anything about the "toilet bowl." That bowl would be the two worst teams with the loser of the game being declared the worst team of the season. Plus. There is only one place in the country it could be held. Flushing, New York.

Martin
01-18-2007, 05:39 AM
i've got to agree with cuatrodemayo on that one... there are already way too many bowls in college football. the two best teams to not make it to a bowl? these days that'd mean something along the lines of 'eastern texas technical' versus 'northern tennessee welding college.'

besides that, i really don't think the medieval castle look really fits in with an image that is purely oklahoman... just my opinion. i'd say that something in the 'cherokee gothic' style would be more appropriate. also, and again just my opinion, i think that the word 'heartland' is already overused and beyond cliche.

strip away all of that and the core idea of a stadium surrounded by attractions seems like a winner if okc can find occupants for such a stadium. -M

Pete
01-18-2007, 08:53 AM
OKC does need a stadium. It's pretty sad when you're a city of 1 million plus and all you have to offer is Taft Stadium! The area south of what is now I-40 would be the perfect area and a good way to clear out a lot of blight. And if it's relatively close to the Ford & Cox Centers, it could be part of a bigger convention complex.

I'd also like to see some serious money spent on the new downtown boulevard. Do it right, with lots of landscaping, art and fountains. Once I-40 is moved, this presents an opportunity to do things right and I hope we don't cheap-out.

I would like to see lots more bike and running trails, tying together some of the trails we already have. This would be pay big long-term dividends in terms of improved fitness for residents.

And finally, we all know we need better landscaping and maintenance of parks and common areas. I would like to see some sort of endowment set up for this to happen in a big way on an on-going basis.

floater
01-18-2007, 09:09 AM
And finally, we all know we need better landscaping and maintenance of parks and common areas. I would like to see some sort of endowment set up for this to happen in a big way on an on-going basis.

Ah yes, beautification. Another worthy project that the city needs to improve quality of life.

Pete
01-18-2007, 09:43 AM
Regarding beautification, I'd like to see Meridian south of I-40 really improved, as there are tons of hotel rooms there and it's often the first impression visitors have after they arrive at WRWA. The whole area immediately north of the airport could use lots more trees and plantings.

And dowtown as a whole could be vastly improved with more pedestrian-friendly streetscape. It would be nice to bridge Midtown to downtown through more of what they are doing along Walker, but there many streets that need a similar treatment.

We also need to do something with the fairgrounds. The improvements made to date are a good start, but we've got a long way to go.

Patrick
01-18-2007, 10:26 AM
Here's the list I submitted on the MAPS3.org website.

1. Heartland Castle, a domed stadium to attract an NFL team, and have an NCAA college football bowl game called the Heartland Bowl
2. City-wide beautification and public art projects
3. Continued beautification along the Oklahoma River
4. A large symbolic space tower downtown like the space needle in Seattle or the Archway in St. Louis.
5. Extend the Bricktown canal to link to the river, and extend the Bricktown Canal west to link up with the Myriad Gardens
6. Expand the Cox Convention Center on the south side to match the expansion done on the north side. Convert the arena to convention space.
7. A start-up commuter rail system, from Norman to Moore to OKC
8. Expand the State Fair Arena, so it can house women's Big 12 basketball tournaments and other events. Needs at least 15,000 seats.
9. Further improvements to State Fair Park, i.e., replacement of the Grandstand, beautification, new exhibition buildings, etc.

BDP
01-18-2007, 12:20 PM
Interesting ideas, but what's the medieval theme? Very odd. Do we have that many D&D players in OKC?

jbrown84
01-18-2007, 12:29 PM
Yeah I'm not a fan of the Castle theme. A stadium would be nice, but I'd stay away from Disneyland style cheese, as well as the word Heartland.

It does seem like there are too many Bowl games, but if Shreveport can have one, we ought to be able to.

metro
01-18-2007, 01:34 PM
Malibu, FYI, the merger of the Lake Hefner trails to the Lake Overholser trails are coming along quite nicely. I drove by Wiley Post airport today and you can see the construction of the bike/walking trails tieing the two lakes together is well under construction. I'm guessing it will be done by this summer?

And yeah, I'm with jbrown on the stadium, stay away from all this cheesy castle thing, we're not in Europe!

Patrick
01-18-2007, 01:40 PM
Okay, here's a better idea. Let's build a large 65,000 seat domed stadium with a white roof, and gray concrete structural beams. Make the inside gray concrete, and the ceiling gray concrete. Have gray and black seats.

Now that's original.

And here's a novel concept: get a major corporation to sponsor it by selling naming rights!!!!! I've got it. How about The Ford Dome!

Oh yeah, and it can have an absolutely lousy sound system, seats that are incredibly small and tight, and an ugly brown brick exterior.

I think the point in the Heartland Castle is that it's incredibly unique. If you have other unique ideas, present them, otherwise, you're just complaining with no better ideas.

TStheThird
01-18-2007, 01:43 PM
I too do not understand the medieval theme. Why? Seriously?

Patrick
01-18-2007, 01:47 PM
I too do not understand the medieval theme. Why? Seriously?

Try to come up with something better if you don't like it. I'd love to hear people's ideas, instead of just people saying they don't like someone else's idea.

Pete
01-18-2007, 01:50 PM
I think a Southwestern or Western them would be more appropriate in terms of architecture and colors.

But also, a truly modern structure wouldn't be the worst thing either. Not to the extreme of the Arizona Cardinals stadium but something sleek and simple would be fine with me.

SOONER8693
01-18-2007, 01:50 PM
How about a domed stadium that looks like a UFO and you can pull the field in and out of the stadium. Oops, wait a minute. Never mind.

Patrick
01-18-2007, 01:50 PM
How about the OK Corral and we can have it look like a big rodeo arena? LOL! Just joking, but I'm trying to open up the field for ideas on a football stadium.

Patrick
01-18-2007, 01:51 PM
How about a domed stadium that looks like a UFO and you can pull the field in and out of the stadium. Oops, wait a minute. Never mind.
Roswell would laugh at us.

Patrick
01-18-2007, 01:52 PM
We already have the Crystal Bridge. How about the Crystal Palace and the exterior can be all glass?

Pete
01-18-2007, 02:01 PM
Something largely brick and earthy would make the most sense to me, both in terms of architecture and relating to the surrounding plains.

BDP
01-18-2007, 02:07 PM
Ok, those last two ideas sound exciting. A glass and brick structure would blend into the area well and would give a nod to both classic and modern, bridging Oklahoma City's past and future.

I'm not sure that it needs a gimmick or theme, really. They've all been used up on Las Vegas Blvd anyway.

I like the idea of a shopping plaza and some housing near the stadium would cool, imo.

Patrick
01-18-2007, 02:36 PM
I also think we need a serious study into whether OKC could land an NFL team. There's no question we could support one. If New Orleans can support one, I know we can. But, I'm not sure what team we could get to come here, if any. And there's not much use in building this if we can't land and NFL team.

CuatrodeMayo
01-18-2007, 02:49 PM
Something largely brick and earthy would make the most sense to me, both in terms of architecture and relating to the surrounding plains.

In terms of and Oklahoma style, think Will Rogers World Airport. That is one of the best interpretations of Oklahoma architecture I have seen in a while.

BDP
01-18-2007, 03:01 PM
And there's not much use in building this if we can't land and NFL team.

That is a good point. While it would be cool to have one and we could use it for other events as well, without a permanent tenant, it is a much bigger risk than, say, building an arena. There just are a lot more arena size events than there are stadium ones to fill it up until a local tenant is acquired.

I really think there are other projects that MAPS III could address with less risk and more immediate benefit. I think transportation and the new boulevard would be great and I would like to see some long term planning for the riverside district. I think an amphitheater and museum campus along with other parks along the river would be great. it would be really cool to go running, jogging, or biking along the river trails and pass various gardens, boat and duck ponds, museums, landmark pedestrian bridges, statues and art work, etc. I think if you do that, the core to shore area instantly becomes prime real estate and would develop quickly due to all of the tourism traffic that would be created between the two districts of downtown and the river.

I know there's going to be a lot of pissing matches in planning the river, but it has the potential to be Oklahoma City's signature piece, imo, as long as it isn't just relegated to being treated as another man made Oklahoma lake.

Pete
01-18-2007, 03:13 PM
In terms of and Oklahoma style, think Will Rogers World Airport. That is one of the best interpretations of Oklahoma architecture I have seen in a while.

I agree completely. I believe the slate used was from local quarries. I remember when it first started to go up, some didn't like it but it all really came together IMO. And I especially like that the design was somewhat daring which conveys confidence and delivers a strong statement.

I think you merely conduct a design competition among architects and suggest that the stadium reflect the area but also be a forward-thinking design. Or perhaps you use a local firm to help come up with the general design elements and someone with the experience of HOK Sport to make it functional.

In any event, I think the idea of a stadium is the most important thing at this stage. If it gains traction, some conceptual drawings could then be developed to help market the initiative.

SpectralMourning
01-18-2007, 04:16 PM
If we do a stadium, I'd definitely go for one with Art Deco architecture (though that's just my personal taste.) Has anyone actually crafted an Art Deco dome stadium? It'd be really cool if we could pull off the Art Deco sunrise/moon rise on the roof of the dome, though maybe the style's too dated for OKC. I'd just like for us to beat out Tulsa in the Art Deco movement.

Greek Revival would be fantastic as well. I've always wanted to see a modern mix-use stadium pulled off through a new Roman Amphitheater, especially for the fact that we have little Greek Revival in the city.

BG918
01-18-2007, 04:17 PM
Maybe I'm wrong but I think a new stadium is completely unnecessary. Maybe further down the road but things like light and commuter rail and a new cultural attraction i.e. museum or science center should be the priorities for MAPS III. Things like the Core to Shore, new downtown blvd., Oklahoma River, etc. should have govt. oversight and maybe MAPS III would include funds to jumpstart potential projects, but they should be mainly privately funded. Not every project in this city has to be paid for by the taxpayers especially when it involves retail/restaurants/hotels/etc.

My 3 suggestions for the MAPS III website:
1. Light rail (streetcar) line in downtown. First line would connect the OUHSC with the The Triangle and Bricktown while other lines would connect to the CBD, Riverside District, Arts District, and Midtown. Great way to show OKC values progressive transit methods in its urban core.

2. Commuter rail line. Would have to get Edmond and Norman on board but this would be very successful if done right. The creation of TOD's around stations would be great for building more density in the city limits and better connecting OKC to its two most populous suburbs (and Moore).

3. Cultural attraction. I mentioned the weather museum and science center before but it could also be a contemporary arts museum or something completely unique. The city has an abundance of sports facilities, what OKC lacks is cultural institutions and such a place would be yet another attraction for the downtown area.

Pete
01-18-2007, 04:38 PM
^^

I still think OKC and OK really blew it when they built the huge and expensive Oklahoma History Center near the state capitol.

For it's scale and expense ($45 million just for construction), you never hear anything about it and it's pretty clear most visitors to the city never even consider it. And I've yet to meet anyone that has actually gone, unless you count Doug L. who posted some phots here -- that showed a building that was largely vacant of people

It would have made so much sense to incorporate it with the Oklahoma River, the Land Run monument on the canal, the Native American Center, etc.

I understand that it's a state museum and thus the theory behind putting it on the captiol campus, but the truth is you can't walk to it from the capitol building or anything else. Yes, it's in the same general area, but so what??


But at the very least, I'd like to see the capitol area, the zoo and downtown/Bricktown connected via public transportation such as light rail.

Patrick
01-18-2007, 06:38 PM
This is the general theme I'm seeing here:

1. Commuter Rail and Light Rail (trolley system downtown)

2. City beautification

3. Further expansion of projects along the Oklahoma River

4. Cultural Attraction

5. Stadium

Pete
01-18-2007, 06:43 PM
I feel strongly that the new downtown boulevard and at least one other very nice boulevard between the new I-40 and downtown should also be included.

How many times does a city get a chance to create completely new entrances to their downtown area?

TStheThird
01-18-2007, 06:59 PM
Also, aren't most new stadiums costing $750,000,000 plus. I think the money could be better spent elsewhere. If the day ever comes that we are seriously on the NFL radar, I believe the citizens will easily vote to build a stadium.

I am a fan of rail and city beautification. They could build some of the parks that are to be in the Core to Shore area.

Also, I think that should build a couple of office buildings. Use them as a business incubator. Offer low rent and tax benefits to start-up companies. When they reach a certain status, they are forced to move on. It would be cool to have a little district full of start-up companies. Advertise the hell out of this and pull entrepreneurs from all over the country. Maybe they could even sign a commitment to keep their company in OKC for a period of time.

I think that they should use some money to create and Opera or to endow performing arts. I would like to see a few more museums built.

We could also build a new giant convention center south of the Ford center like they have in the Core to Shore plans. We need a lot more convention space and hotel rooms. Let's make it happen.

okcpulse
01-18-2007, 07:24 PM
A gave several new ideas on the MAPS 3 website, but two ideas I emphasised were light rail connecting OKC with Edmond, Norman, MWC and Yukon. I also would like to see the CLassen rail trolley line revived.

Another idea that came to mind were the bridges over the Oklahoma River. They are nothing short of ugly. Why not spruce up the major bridges over the river with architectural appeal? Line the bridges with arches and other ornamental aesthetic improvements. I also wanted to place an emphasis on landscaping and sidewalks along all major busy thoroughfaces.

Here's another idea. Supplement funding with ODOT to make all concrete surface OKC freeways smooth like the Lake Hefner Parkway. In addition, instead of marking them with paint stripes, mark them with elevated markers like they do here in Houston. That would reduce lane drifting and prevent a few accidents during rain storms.

floater
01-18-2007, 08:24 PM
This is the general theme I'm seeing here:

1. Commuter Rail and Light Rail (trolley system downtown)

2. City beautification

3. Further expansion of projects along the Oklahoma River

4. Cultural Attraction

5. Stadium

That sounds about right, Patrick.

I like Patrick's idea of funding for public art. It seems frivolous, but it goes a long way toward developing OKC's sense of place. Those buffs showed that public art can give us a sense of pride, too -- they were mascots done with great creativity. So it will be part of my rough list:

1) OK Fixed Guideway Phase 1
2) Beautification and public art endowment to be administered by the city in conjunction with OKC Beautiful and OKC Arts Council (or new nonprofit)
3) Cultural attraction

For the cultural attraction, here some ideas:

A Millenium Park-type space for the Core-to-Shore area: Millennium Park (http://www.millenniumpark.org/)
Health museum
Oklahoma City history museum
Chelsea Piers-like sports complex
Sculpture center
Relocation of Int'l Photography HOF (courtesy jbrown)
Independent film center (screens, library, meeting & studio space)
Ralph Ellison Literary Center (African-American library, cafe, wifi, workshop space, biographical exhibits, African-American author visits)

SpectralMourning
01-18-2007, 09:40 PM
Regardless of MAPS funding or not, we need an African American center here in the city anyway. The literary center sounds like a fantastic idea for that.

Spartan
01-18-2007, 11:17 PM
Try to come up with something better if you don't like it. I'd love to hear people's ideas, instead of just people saying they don't like someone else's idea.

Oklahoma City is not a medieval city. It is however an Art Deco city. Why don't we build an Art Deco football stadium if we must?

By the way, we stand nothing to gain by building a football stadium. This is not NFL turf, no matter how great we are for a pro team (of another league besides the NFL which would never work here). It does not make sense to play Bedlam in a 50,000-seat stadium, either, no matter the location. The only football that would ever be played in it would be the Arena Football 2 team (which is minor league AFL football, how sad is that??) and maybe a college bowl game. But there is no reason we can't have a college bowl game in Norman.

I for one would not support an NFL team in Oklahoma City...

Spartan
01-18-2007, 11:20 PM
I also think we need a serious study into whether OKC could land an NFL team. There's no question we could support one. If New Orleans can support one, I know we can. But, I'm not sure what team we could get to come here, if any. And there's not much use in building this if we can't land and NFL team.

I know!

The Saints. And we'll take anything else New Orleans' got, too. :bright_id

Easy180
01-19-2007, 08:09 AM
But there is no reason we can't have a college bowl game in Norman.



We could have one, but a late December game outside in Oklahoma wouldn't be too appealing...Probably be as excited as Miami players were to play in the Boise Bowl

Only way we could land a bowl game with decent conference ties would be if we had an indoor stadium

OSUFlounder
01-19-2007, 09:11 AM
My husband and I both posted on the MAPS 3 website. Living right in between Moore and Norman, we stressed the importance of a light rail system that not only incorporated downtown, Bricktown, mid-town (we lived there for serveral years), and zoo/Omniplex campus, but also the need for commuter lines that extend south (Moore, Norman), north (NW and NE OKC and Edmond), and eventually west and east.
I also think that it is very important to incorporate the airport into such a plan.
I recently traveled to Atlanta and the light rail system connects directly to the airport. So convenient. I paid for ticket, got the right train, and rode all the way across Atlanta to my hotel. The cost was nominal (especially compared to a 30+ min cab ride!) and I felt completely safe. I think a light rail system connected to the airport is helpfor for travelers both going to and from Will Rogers. Think about not having to drop someone off at the airport - just the nearest light rail entrance. For tourists or those coming in for conferences they could hop on and ride to downtown or Bricktown. They would see a lot of OKC on the way, and if properly maintained and beautified, we could really impress our guests.
While I think a stadium is nice (although I much prefer MLB to NFL) however I think when we think about what is best for OKC and the metro area, we need to think about things that directly improve our quality of life. While a stadium is a great idea and probably down the road - light rail, beautification, etc are probably more realistic. I really do like the idea of a weather history muesuem though!

wheeler
01-19-2007, 09:56 AM
Since parking is such a problem in OKC,what about a free parking garage with a 25 or 50 cent shuttle to major attraction areas of the city such as Cox, Bricktown Ballpark, Riverwalk, shopping areas, etc. Of course there would have to be controls to prevent folks taking advantage of the free space, but visitors, city workers, etc. could really benefit from such a service. Perhaps designated pick up areas in the lot for specific destinations. What do you think?

jbrown84
01-19-2007, 09:58 AM
The Gary England Museum of Weather!

No actually I do like that idea, as well as the idea for a Ralph Ellison museum for African-American literature or something along those lines. I think Union Station would make a great museum facility, since it can no longer be used as a transit hub.

jbrown84
01-19-2007, 09:59 AM
I don't think we have a parking problem.

Patrick
01-19-2007, 02:26 PM
Park after hours at the city's major parking garages, like Santa Fe, and you'll find that they are free.

Pete
01-19-2007, 03:15 PM
I concur that we don't need more parking and if anything we have too much.

I worked downtown in the mid-80's when there was considerably more occupancy than now, yet there was way less parking (several huge garages have been constructioned in the last 10 years) and it was never a problem. And I know because I had to pay for my own parking and there were many options avaliable -- all pretty reasonable.

And I've never had a problem parking at Bricktown or for an event. Worse case, I have to pay $5 and/or walk a few blocks. Still way better than any urban entertaiment area I've ever visited.

And I personally think it was a big mistake to take half the Galleria property with a parking garage. That's primo real estate that could be put to a higher and better use.


I don't mean to be too harse in the criticism of that idea, just wanted to point out there seems to be a disconnect between what most citizens believe (parking problem) and what actually exists.

BG918
01-19-2007, 03:41 PM
^ I still have hope that part of the Galleria site will have a new tower someday. Perfect location for a new office tower with the garage already there.

dismayed
01-19-2007, 06:55 PM
Hey I like that museum of weather idea. You should suggest that to the city on their MAPS web page.

Kerry
01-19-2007, 07:46 PM
First let me say thank you to Patric for support on Heartland Castle. Why a medival theme? Why not? There is not a stadium anywhere in the world that would look like this and any city attempting anything similar would be seen as copying OKC.

Every stadium in the world follows the same pattern. Why not try something different for once. Use a little imagination. Why build a stadium that will looks like everything else on the planet? I think most of can agree that a stadium would be a nice addition to the city. But if you are going to dream - dream big.

Kerry
01-19-2007, 07:59 PM
Also, aren't most new stadiums costing $750,000,000 plus.

Yes, a stadium built with borrowed money does cost this much. But that is what MAPS is about. collecting the money before you start construction and pay in cash. That is why the Ford Center cost $80 million and Sprint Center in KC cost $280 million. Pick any other theme you want but for crying out loud give up the western theme crap. No one is proposing that the new downtown blvd be a dirt road. Why would we want a stadium to portray that image?

floater
01-19-2007, 08:40 PM
I do like the idea of an Art Deco stadium. A brick and glass stadium with lights of the team colors would be cool. The Frank Lloyd Wright-inspired stadium, with a materials similar to the airport's, would be cool too.