Capitol Cities:

Michigan - Lansing
California - Sacramento
Washington - Olympia
Oregon - Salem
New Mexico - Santa Fe

and so on...

Arguably, OKC is the center of business and government for Oklahoma, while Tulsa is the indisputed center for culture in Oklahoma.

Tulsa has fallen behind on itself, obviously, but with job growth that is THROUGH the roof right now, and a downtown with more Art Deco buildings than ANY city in America save Miami, Tulsa has potential, and I don't think it's very diplomatic for a highly competant Okc Talk moderator such as yourself to come on here and blast Tulsa.

So tell us... what did Tulsa do to you?

If you're going to quote me, at least get your facts straight. I'm not a moderator of this website nor ever have been. As far as the capitols listed above. Not sure what your point is, you never made it. Yes, some states have capitol cities that are smaller than OKC and a less thriving city in their state, look at Sacramento you mentioned though, very comparable to OKC. Yes, LA is a major port city in the world, of course it will be bigger and more thriving. Not sure what Art Deco has to do with anything. It's not going to cause people to move there and your economy to boom. And as far as culture goes, I'd beg to differ that Tulsa is the winner there. At best case scenario, it is very debatable. The OKC MOA has an exhibit from the Louvre' in Paris that only 3 art museums in the US landed, Seattle, Indy, and OKC! That speaks volumes. The civic center hosts a wide variety of world class events. We have the regions largest Asian District. We have a thriving downtown with nightlife which can't be said of Tulsa for either of those. We have Lebanese festival, Greek festivals, African American festivals (both OKC and Tulsa), Deep Deuce, Jazz festivals, St. Pattys festivals, Czech festival, and so on and so on. I know I'm biased living in OKC but even looking at it unbiased, OKC is the clear winner. Perhaps Tulsa has been the winner historically in the past, but you have to give it up for OKC on the culture front right now. And that's not even including the "currently under construction" Native American Cultural Center which will be a part of the Smithsonian.

It's a fine place, very nice, just still on the small side with a sparce permanent collection. Give it time, and a ton of money it could someday be the equal. It does have the potential to be world class, it's not there yet.

It's no smaller than the Philbrook, excluding the gardens, which are nice, but not part of the art.

Tulsa has one of the top Oktoberfests in the world according to Bon Appetit magazine and USA Today.

Tulsa’s Greek holiday at nearly 50 years old is the states oldest ethic festival

Tulsa has the Jazz Hall of Fame along with a Jazz festival called Jazz on Greenwood. There’s Juneteenth, Mayfest, Diversafest and Shalomfest. There’s The Sherwin Miller Musuem with the largest collection of Judica in the Southwest. The Oklahoma Blues Festival, Cherrybrook Art Festival, Blue Dome Art Festival, Festival Hispano, Tulsa has the largest Scottish Games in the southwest. Tulsa has the largest percentage of Native Americans of any city in the nation, and a booming Hispanic population with three Hispanic regions of the city.

Gilcrease and Philbrook have the kind of collections where they send their art on national tours.

Along with the top 10 regional opera and one of the best ballet companies in the world.

It's no smaller than the Philbrook, excluding the gardens, which are nice, but not part of the art.


Then you have not been there recently, the house is only a small part of the facility any longer.

Um, Yeah, I Have.

then swake, your only further proving our point that which city is more "cultural" (if that can be proven) is arguable at best. both cities have lots to offer.

Besides, if we want to go back to momentum, just look at how far the OKCMOA has come in 5 or 6 years.

It was housed on the fairgrounds and didn't even have room for all of it's permanent collection. I had never even heard of it. They raised millions privately to build a new downtown facility that is now arguably one of the top 2 or 3 attraction in the city. Just a couple years later they raised more millions to purchase the Chihuly exhibit permanently, and now we have the most comprehensive collection of his work in the world. The have a large space for traveling exhibits and have just finished hosting Egyptian art from the British Museum and will host Roman art from the Lourve for several months in 2008. And they also house a strong art film program in the Noble Theatre, showing films most cities our size never get on the big screen.

And the Fred Jones in Norman has expanded significantly in the last couple years to house the largest gift of art ever given to a public university.


That's what I call momentum.

Both OKC and Tulsa are very different from each other in terms with the culture scene, nightlife, etc. Both cities are currently growing well. I think long term growth is headed for OKC, yet Tulsa has a potential to grow ahead of OKC. This is based on the fact that Maps has progessed OKC's quality of life. And there has been tremendous growth of business in OKC. Tulsa has gone ahead in the early 2000s in the high-tech telecom businesses yet that faded with the tech bubble bust. And OKC is doing well with the biotech reasearch. Tulsa has a much more "mature" entrepreneur character than OKC. Although with the negativity surrounding the Channels development, seems like there are still Tulsans who want to look out of the box when it comes to attracting young professionals. OKC did this was MAPS back in the 90s, yet the difference with this and MAPS is that the Channels is more oriented to these young professionals then to cutting the pie to everyone in the OKC metro area. Some of the issues with downtown development in Tulsa is that thier downtown isn't exactly in the center of the city proper, it's more further northwest and most people live on the southeast side including broken arrow. Lets see what happens once thier East End, Arena, and the promising OSU-Tulsa reaches thier goals. For now OKC is growing well, well see what MAPS III could do for this city.

The Daily Oklahoman IS Oklahoma City's Major Metro paper. I would think OKC would have even LESS Tulsa materials in its major metro paper than the Daily has.

In fact, for every OKC story you can find a Tulsa story as well, one for one (online edition, I dont know about print). So I think it is fair to say that the Daily Oklahoman IS Oklahoma's state newspaper (and largest, of course).

I wish there was a paper which focused only on OKC, much like the OKC Times used to.

Oh, and those lists of state capitols::: what about,,,

Denver Colorado
Boston Massachussetts
Atlanta Georgia
Salt Lake Utah
Phoenix Arizona
Little Rock Arkansas
Columbus Ohio
Honolulu, Hawaii
Boise Idaho
Columbia South Carolina
Bizmark North Dakota
Charleston West Virginia
Nashville Tennessee (neck and neck with Memphis now)
Des Moines Iowa
Richmond, Virginia
Cheyenne Wyoming
Indianapolis, Indiana
Providence Rhode Island

All of these cities, like Oklahoma City, are the dominant city in their respective state who also just so happen to be the capital city as well. So why wouldn't the "state newspaper" claim be from the largest city? Why would it not be weird for a magazine claiming to represent the state not include the largest city on a regular basis?

I would imagine, in every state - any paper, magazine, advertisement, so on .. would have most information about the largest city, especially if it is also the capital and just so happened to be a major regional city as well.

Even in states where the capital is not the largest city, there is still mention of the capital even tho the majority would be about the largest city (you mentioned Olympia, Washington and Salem, Oregon = I can attest that even though Seattle and Portland RULE their states we still mention our capital in addition to Tacoma and Spokane, in our ads, papers, and magazines). Sure Seattle Times claims to be the State's Largest paper - that is because it IS. And most of the stories are about Seattle. Same for Illinois/Chicago and New York/New York, Pennsylvania/Phila, California/Los Angeles.

I feel that OKC should take the posture Tulsan's use and just promote OKC as the state. If OKC was to take all of the Oklahoma names and ONLY write about things to do in OKC or what's happening in OKC - IM POSITIVE, OKC would have a much higher self image!!!

Oh, and Tulsa does not dominate the state for culture. I can not name a single thing from Tulsa that Oklahoma is known for. The Tulsa things are TULSAN. Why can't OKC do it? We are a city too and we're the largest, so why wouldn't OKC things be OKC???

The name Daily Oklahoman is just a name and it is the largest major metro in the state (which is why its in Tulsa newstands and the World is NOT in OKC).

Hey Hot Rod have you ever been to Tulsa? You seem to be full of :Lies: :Lies: and more:Lies:

Sorry, Columbus sits behind Cleveland and Cinci in Ohio, Columbia is not the dominant city in South Carolina nor is Bismark in North Dakota. Rhode Island and Providence are basically the same thing. The same is true of Boston and Mass.

And if Tulsa is not known for the same things as Oklahoma, well, considering the image of this state nationally, well, that’s a good thing.

And, for the record, What exists in Oklahoma City IS promoted as being Oklahoma. Here in Tulsa we don’t have red dirt, we don’t have a lot of cowboys, we actually have hills, trees and rivers. We are not located on the plains. No dust bowl. There was no land run here. All of these things are heavily promoted as being fundamental to Oklahoma, and just simply aren’t true here.

Oh. Jobs data, Tulsa Metro again leads the state in job creation with more than half of all state jobs added in the last year being added in Tulsa Metro. Tulsa has added more than 10,000 jobs this year and more than 35,000 jobs in the last three years. And the outlook is for more of the same in 2007. Statewide unemployment is up slightly, Metro OKC and Lawton both see small increases in unemployment.

Area Job Numbers Booming (http://www.tulsaworld.com/NewsStory.asp?ID=061228_To_A1_Areaj37599)

:kicking: Thanks to swake2 it has been answered Tulsa WILL take over the state. And will be bigger than OKC in 10 years. All I have to say is GO TULSA say it with me GO TULSA GO TULSA GO TULSA and on and on and on and on.:congrats: :congrats:

:bow: to Tulsa



:cheersmf:

So the point is, people from each town hate each other like always and both think their town is better like always. I have a personal hatred of Tulsa, but I'm from OKC so it figures. So why waste time listening to people rant on each other...just go experience each other's towns and go on with your life.

I think all the hate is on the Oklahoma City side on this debate, find a single negative (non-fact based) comment about Oklahoma City on this threat, find one inflammatory remark about OKC? Can you. I can find dozens about Tulsa. Many accusations have been made but nothing has been posted to back anything up other than there are not enough articles in a Tulsa magazine about OKC and that magazine dares to use the work "Oklahoma" in it's name. You are all so full of crap, it's your bias and hate that's coming through.

Why exactly do you hate Tulsa Bomber? What is the issue? Could be you are just jealous.

As for growth, here's some evidence of momentum for you, from the already growing faster smaller sister city. These are all just projects in downtown/midtown and on the river:

Arkansas River:

South Riverfront, 81st to 106th in Tulsa and Jenks:

Water Walk, a 200 acre upscale lifestyle center in Jenks south of the Aquarium on the Arkansas River has been announced. The land transaction is complete and details will be announced in January.

The 160,000 sq ft phase two of The Riverwalk Crossing in Jenks is supposed to start construction soon, included are a hotel, bookstore and more office and retail space on the river. A third phase could include residential living on the river.

King’s Landing, a small lifestyle center at 96th and Riverside on the river is nearing completion, some shops are already open.

The $120 million phase one of the new Creek Casino on the river at 83rd and Riverside is under construction. The total project will reportedly be in the $500 million range.

Downtown/Midtown Riverfront, 11th St to 31st in Tulsa:

There is a proposed “Branson Landing” type multi-use project (by the developer of Branson Landing in Branson and the developer of the Cross Timbers on Lake Skiatook) that would be on the west bank of the river at 21st St. The developers have stated they want to build a larger project in Tulsa than the $470 million Branson Landing project.

The Tudors, an urban infill project of half-million dollar town homes is being built overlooking the river at 21st.

Right next door, the Tudor Lofts is about to start construction on a five floor mixed use condo/office retail building.

McBirney Mansion, now a upscale bed and breakfast overlooking the river in Uptown: The owner is proposing to add a series of four story buildings with underground parking to be connected to the mansion to convert the property to a 5-star 80 room boutique hotel.

Land has been cleared and construction should start soon on a Route 66 museum on the river right outside of downtown. Also included is work on the conversion of the old 11th Street bridge into a pedestrian bridge called “The Cyrus Avery” bridge after the Tulsan that was behind the creation of Route 66. This is another 2025 project.

Included in the money from 2025 and the 3rd Penny is a newly reconstructed floating amphitheater stage and seating. This project is on hold pending decisions on other river projects for the upcoming river vote.

General River projects:

In the next couple of month Tulsa billionaire George Kaiser will announce how his $10 million dollar donation for river projects will be spent.

County Commissioner Randi Miller has promised a vote probably in February on a mix of river improvements including more dams and shoreline improvements. This is in addition to some $40 million in funds already approved for river projects in Tulsa county including new low water dams at Sand Springs and at 106th and Riverside and work to stop silting at the current low water dam at 31st and Riverside.

Downtown:

West Downtown, Mayo Place/Arena District

Tulsa’s iconic $240 million Cesar Pelli designed 18,000 seat arena is now well under construction.

The City of Tulsa is considering purchasing the four year old 15 story Williams Technology Center has a new city hall so that the city can have improved and consolidated facilities. The city would then sell the current civic center area for private development around the new arena and convention center.

The city is about to condemn the Towerview apartments which has been a stumbling block on getting a convention hotel built on city land across the street from the arena. One proposal for the site is a multi-use Westin Hotel with retail and condos.

The Mayo building and the Mayo hotel are about to start construction for conversion of a large part of each building into lofts.

The Coney Island building is being converted into a small hotel.

Central Downtown, Business District:

The McFarlin Building is nearing completion of a complete renovation

Main St has been completely renovated with brick sidewalks, trees and decorative lighting.

The Crowne Plaza hotel is undergoing major renovations, the Crowne Plaza will be adding a Starbucks location and a Skybar and a new upscale restaurant. Total project cost is $12.5 million.

Boston Avenue is in middle of a similar reconstruction to main, brick sidewalks, new outdoor furniture and lighting. New Trees.

Two large downtown Churches, Trinity Episcopal and First Baptist of Tulsa are nearing completion of major renovations/expansions of each of the Churches (that are right across the street from each other)

The Philtower has just finished converting it’s upper floors into lofts.

The TransOk building will soon be converted to loft space as part of 2025.

A large new park will start construction soon at 6th and Main, this is part of 2025 as well.

The Centennial Walk sidewalk replacement, wayfinding and historical markers has complete the design phase and is about to start construction throughout downtown. This is a 2025 project.

The Jazz hall of fame has started construction on converting the Union Depot into a new home for the hall.

North Downtown, Brady District/Greenwood District:

The Creek Nation is looking into building a casino/hotel in the Brady District with businessman David Sharpe (who owns most of the Brady District).

OSU Tulsa is nearing completion of it’s $90 million Advanced Research Lab just north of downtown at it’s Greenwood District campus. About two blocks west of Campus the school is about to build it first student housing and is also planning a new student center that would start construction in about two years.

There have been several conversions of warehouse space into upscale office space across downtown recently, the most prominent being the recent completion of the Wallace building in the Brady District.

East Downtown, East End/Blue Dome District/Pearl District:

Global Development’s East End project: A huge multi-use project encompassing much of the eastern end of downtown should close on the sale of the bulk of the land needed for the project in the next month or so. Included in the project are up to three hotels, hundreds of housing units, office space, and 400,000 square feet of retail. The center piece of the project is a new baseball stadium. The owner of the Tulsa Drillers says he is close to a deal to move the team from Expo Square.

The 1st Street lofts are under construction in the Blue Dome area.

A new boutique hotel is being done on 6th street in the Pearl District.

Also in the Pearl District Centennial Park has just been completed.

Next to the park The Village at Central Park continues to build urban town homes.

South Downtown

The Tulsa community foundation (with over $2 billion in assets) has a number of projects they looking at doing in Tulsa. The highlight being a new $80 million research library downtown

The DoubleTree hotel is undergoing renovations similar to The Crowne Plaza’s renovations.

The OSU College of Medicine has purchased the former Tulsa Regional Medical Center (Now the OSU Medical Center) downtown and is about to spend $40 million on hospital upgrades.

Tulsa Community Colleges downtown campus is about to start a huge new building that will encompass an entire city block just south of the current buildings.

Midtown:

Midtown Central, Brookside/Cherry St/Utica Square Area:

St John Medical Center is nearing completion of a years long renovation and expansion of it’s campus across the street from Utica Square. Included were a major hospital expansion and a new 14 floor doctors building.

The 10 Floor Utica Place condo/office building also next door to Utica Square is nearing completion.

Half a mile north of St John, Hillcrest Hospital continues its own years long building campaign with a big new women’s health center.

Peoria Ave through the heart of Brookside is nearly done on construction that rebuilt the street, built new sidewalks and new lighting for the district.

Also in Brookside, Center One, the new very upscale retail center is adding on a new building.

A new building for Pei Wei and Starbucks was just completed on Brookside

There are lot of new infill town home sites throughout Cherry Street and Brookside, most are very modern in appearance.

A new infill office complex is about to start construction at 41st and Rockford in Brookside.

East Midtown, Expo and TU areas:

Expo Square is nearing completion of a complete remodel of the entire facility. Tulsa may well now have the best fairgrounds facilities in the nation.

Bell’s is leaving Expo Square for an as yet undermined suburb.

The University of Tulsa continues it’s massive building campaign with a new sports building and skyboxes in the north end zone of Skelly Stadium. Also, TU is building a massive new entrance and lawn along 11th St. More student housing is also going to be constructed.

South Midtown:

Promenade Mall has just completed a major renovation

OU Tulsa’s Midtown campus has several major construction projects underway

I-44 on midtowns south side is finally being widened, construction is well underway at Yale and house buy-outs have begun at Peoria.

Jaleous no. I have my opinions and I don't feel the need to explain them to you at all. I just get tired of seeing threads like this on boards on the net. They're so stupid and such a waste of time. They just get people all tensed up and defensive because someone always turns it into a bash fest for the other town.

Lived in both cities and neither city is better than the other overall just a little different....The only major difference is it's easier to get around in OKC with all of the highways....Oh and the hills in Tulsa, which really aren't fun to drive in bad weather

Other than that aside from a few different restaurants I didn't see too much difference...I don't do musuems so can't really comment there

They're different. Both are great, unique cities. I really like Tulsa, and I'm really proud that we have these two cities in Oklahoma that are so cool and different from each other and both bursting at the seams with potential and forward-thinking people... There's so much negativity from both sides about "the other city" when really we should be appreciating how much we have as a state, and how great the future looks.

OKC and Tulsa both have a lot of exciting urban projects and neighborhoods undergoing renaissance. The Triangle, Midtown, Riverside, Uptown, Film Exchange, Arts District, CBD, and Medical/biotech District in OKC are going crazy with developments, and in Tulsa there's the East End, Midtown, Pearl District, Centennial Walk, the arena area, Jenks, and so much on the river... In 10 years Oklahoma will have two cities that are bigger and better than they are today, and that's all that matters- doesn't matter which one is biggest in 10 years or ever because they'll always be similar in size and population means nothing compared to the quality of the city- and our cities will both be among the highest quality cities in the nation.

AMEN! Now that's the kind of thing I like to hear people say in threads like this. Not that something on one side is so much better because of this or that, but the fact that both places are great!

Well said, Shane. I agree with you, but I just didn't get around to writing my thoughts on the topic sooner.

Not to be lewd, but I like the area between the belly button and neck on a woman. Other guys like the caboose. It's all a matter of preference.

I tried to be PC. Sorry for the analogy, but I think it works.

FYI - Yes I have been to Tulsa and liked it a lot as a kid.

But that was then, this is now. And it seems that people from there want to live on the past stereotypes which are not the case today.

AND I'd have to say with all honesty - Tulsan's are much more hostile in general than OKCans. Here is an example, even when someone from OKC has an opinion about Tulsa (which might be constructive or construed as negative), they still commend the city. The same can NOT be said for Tulsans for when they "critique" or better yet condemn OKC - they hvae NOTHING good to say.

And Tulsa media puts the name Oklahoma to shame. Like I said, if its published in OKC - we at least mention Tulsa and other cities/regions of the state and what they have to offer. A Tulsa published works will ONLY mention Tulsa and Green country as OKLAHOMA. This sort of thing is not seen in other states, why dont Tulsan's promote TULSA - they used to (used to want to split from the state, now - they think they ARE the state).

Like I and almost everyone else in OKC have said time and time again - Tulsa is a great city, very pretty in certain areas, and certainly has a more upscale urban appeal in general. But OKC has passed it by because Tulsan's have been sitting by on the past (for whatever reason - mayor, citizen apathy, whatever).

This opinion can NOT be disputed nor can the fact that OKC IS the dominant city in Oklahoma. Put it this way, have Tulsa fail (which it did) and the state still gets by; have OKC fail - and this state does not recover!!

Given that, OKC clearly is the dominant centre.

Honestly, Shane hit it on the nail above.

Oklahoma has two great cities - I wish both could work together. OKC could focus on its obvious economy of scale and recognition while Tulsa can add in her charm and beauty to make Oklahoma a "one-two punch" for the region.

A visit to Oklahoma should not be complete without first landing and setting up base in downtown OKC. Then after 50% of time spent in the city, 35% should be spent in Tulsa. The remaining 15% could be spent in Lawton or the SE or the N.

I think such a marketing strategy would be highly successful and allow both cities to "ca$h in" if you will - using the strengths of each other.

In my honest opinion, OKC already offers this marketing strategy - its Tulsa who doesnt.

Exactly. It's unfortunate that many Tulsans would tell visitors to stay away from OKC completely. That's either blatant ignorance or jealousy.

Tulsa - Urban Tulsa Weekly (http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A15596)

JANUARY 3, 2007

Dance Master

Marcello Angelini re-invented an iconic dance companyAnd along the way, he's teaching the city to keep step with his progressive rhythms

BY HOLLY WALL

Twelve years ago, the Tulsa Ballet was in a state of transition and near-turmoil. The air was uncertain; former Artistic Director Roman Larkin Jasinski, successor to TB's founders and his parents, Moscelyne Larkin and Roman Jasinski, was making his tumultuous exit, and with him, so was a large percentage of the Ballet's dancers.

The state in which Roman Larkin Jasinski and TB's former Executive Director, Connie Cronley, left the company in 1994 left many doubting the future of the Tulsa Ballet.

What remained was a thinly-spread company holding its breath, waiting to see what would happen--hanging on the slender hope of what the incoming Artistic Director, 32-year-old Marcello Angelini might bring with him.

Going into the second half of the current season, his 12th with Tulsa Ballet, there is no one who can match Angelini for his sheer impact on the city's arts scene over the past decade.

Among Tulsa's "Hot 100" (see UTW's annual look at local movers and shakers, Pages 11-13) he is igniting the imagination of ballet patrons as well as kindling a fire of interest among a whole new generation of young people looking for something different, and artistically solid.

Perhaps no one knew at the time what vision this Italian dancer would have for the Tulsa Ballet, that over the next few years, under his leadership, the Ballet would become one of the best in the world, ranked 10th in the nation, boasting some of the most talented dancers from all over the globe.

A city overly concerned about keeping semi-successful, single-dimensional football and coaches should wise up to retaining this living legend it has currently in its midst.

Angelini was quick to mend fences between dancers and the board of directors, associations that had been on thin ice when the younger Jasinski was in charge, and to build working relationships with his predecessors. He quickly earned the nickname "The Italian Tornado."

Principal Alfonso Martin and Soloist Ashley Blade-Martin have been dancing with the Tulsa Ballet under Angelini's tutelage for the last eight years.

"You know, it's not any one thing that we have learned from Marcello; it is more the generosity with which he opens up that book and literally passes down the knowledge gained over the course of his lifetime in dance," Ashley pondered.

"He also has a great reverence and passion for the art form, which is something that comes through in his work. It is very awe-inspiring to work with someone who manages to always help you remember what it was that inspired you to dance to begin with."

That's the thing about Angelini's vision -- it's not just a vision, a hope, a prediction for the future, but it is a living and breathing entity. It is every ballet performed, every class taught. Every movement of every dancer in the company speaks to Angelini's vision.

Step by Step

Angelini's vision begins with a journey. Born in Naples, Italy, a city "squeezed between the sea and mountains," about the size of Tulsa with a population of about three million people, Angelini was raised by a ballet-dancing father and a bookkeeping mother. From his youngest years, he knew what he wanted to be when he grew up.

"I clearly remember being nine years old and people asking me what I wanted to be when I grew up. My answer was always the same... A dancer and a pilot," he said.

Angelini achieved both of those dreams; he's fulfilled a remarkable career as a ballet dancer and has been a pilot, as well, for the last 18 years.

As a child, Angelini says he was shy, interested in dance, the arts, physics and, of course, girls. He says his mother, the only non-dancer in the family (his brother was also a dancer) kept the rest of the family grounded, and it was from her he inherited his proficiency in math. And though math has aided him in being as shrewd a businessman as he is a creative artist, it was never his passion.

"I remember very well the day that my interest in dance became love for the art form," Angelini said.

He recalled watching, with his father and a number of other dancers, a stage rehearsal for Giselle at the San Carlo Opera House, where his father danced. On stage was the legendary Vladimir Vassiliev, a guest from the Bolshoi, dancing the part of Albrecht in the cemetery, where the woman Albrecht betrayed, who was consequently killed, was buried.

"I remember his first entrance, so full of sorrow, permeated by vulnerability, and yet that man looked larger than life. The sincerity of his pain filled the stage. The strength of his feelings filled the house.

"Then he started dancing, and he was like a hungry lion finally let out of his cage in pursuit of his prey. The power, the passion, the feelings, the jumps, the athleticism of this dancer totally impressed me," Angelini recalled, the passion reflected in his eyes, echoed in his voice.

Angelini said he turned to his father at that moment and told him, "I want to be a dancer, and I want to dance this role."

His father, not wanting to discourage Marcello but telling him simply, truthfully, informed his son that even if he were to become a dancer, his chances of dancing that role were slim, as it was reserved for the most elite of dancers.

That would not be the last time someone would tell Angelini he couldn't do something and be defied by his determination.

"After five years in the school of the opera house, I was invited, in spite of the friendship between my dad and the director of the school, to choose another profession, as they didn't think I would ever become a dancer," Angelini recalled. "I was 13 at the time and had scoliosis.

"I remember going to the office of the director and telling him that he didn't understand the first thing about dance, that not only would I become a dancer, but I would become a principal dancer and that one day I would go back as a star and ask them for a lot of money to dance for the company."

And 15 years later, he did. He was invited by Rudolf Nurijev to dance the lead role in his mega-production of Cinderella, created for the Paris Opera Ballet -- and yes, he did ask them for a small fortune.

He also danced the role his father told him he would never dance--the role of Albrecht in Giselle. He danced the role in five different versions of the ballet, eventually dancing Vladimir Vassiliev's version of the work.

And the dream isn't over yet--Angelini has staged his own version of the ballet, and TB spent Christmas setting it for the company of the Massimo Opera House in Palermo, Italy.

Leaps and Bounds

After Angelini graduated from the opera house, he began working with legendary teacher and director Evgeny Polyakov in Florence. "Just for fun," he applied to be one of two recipients, out of 65 million applicants, of a government scholarship to graduate again in Russia.

"Well, I won it! I should have learned right then and there not to apply for things just for fun," Angelini laughed, foreshadowing.

After graduating in Russia, Angelini returned to Florence, where he would meet his wife, Daniela Buson, TB Ballet Mistress who retired as a Principal dancer earlier this year. Together, they have twin sons, Valentino and Alessandro, who turn nine this year.

Angelini and Buson danced together all over the world, including the Deutsche Opera in Berlin, the Northern Ballet Theater in England, the English National Ballet, the Scottish Ballet, the Basel Ballet in Switzerland, Les Grands Ballets Canadienes in Montreal, the Cincinnati Ballet and Ballet West in the U.S., the Teatro Municipal in Santiago, Chile and as guest dancers in some of the major opera houses in Italy.

Then, some 12 years ago, Angelini found himself suffering from an Achilles tendon injury and unable to dance for weeks.

"Well, this was another time I did something for fun," he began. "In talking with my agent, I told him that, one day, I would be interested in directing a ballet company.

"He advised that, if this was my goal, I had to get my name out there and start interviewing. It would take time and many tries, but once my interviewing skills improved, I might get a chance."

His agent told him that the Tulsa Ballet was looking for a new artistic director, and on a whim, Angelini applied. He was surprised and excited to receive a call from Donna Bost, the head of the search committee at the time. He was even more surprised when she asked him to come to Tulsa for an interview, a step in the process reserved for final candidates.

"I came to Tulsa, met a lot of wonderful people, talked to a lot of equally brilliant individuals, went back home to Cincinnati, signed a two-year contract and bought a house. That is how sure I was that I wouldn't get the job.

"On my way back from signing the documents on the house, there was a message on my answering machine. I called Donna back, and the best image I have of that day is seeing Daniela laughing so hard while I am on the phone that she eventually ended up on the floor, belly up, pointing at me and just crying with laughter."

Sky's the Limit

Over the past 12 years, TB has evolved into what Angelini says its founders and his predecessors hoped it would be.

"Today we have a repertory that is rich and varied and spans the entire width of recorded dance history from the first romantic works of the 19th century to the works of leading contemporary choreographers today," Angelini said.

"Our roster of choreographers is comparable to companies that are 10 times larger than ours, and, I am proud to say, no other ballet company with our budget size has the works of the leading dance makers that work with us."

Angelini said organizations similar in size to TB normally don't have the finances or caliber of dancers to produce the works TB does. He admits that while financial negotiations are still tricky, the company is approved to perform the works it is because of its exceptional dancers, who come from 14 countries and a countless number of states in the U.S. to live in Tulsa and dance with the Tulsa Ballet.

"Today we have in Tulsa a company that presents the same repertory you will see in New York, San Francisco, Boston, Houston, Paris or London, danced by their resident companies," Angelini said.

Angelini's first goal was to make TB an international ballet company, which it is. Next, he wants to see the company grow both in its contribution to the community and as a creative international force in the world of dance.

As far as the first phase of Angelini's goal goes, TB has already set in motion a plan of action to achieve it with the Tulsa Ballet Center for Dance Education.

Within the school, TB provides dance education to students interested in pursuing ballet professionally as well as to those who "just love to dance." TB also provides free instruction to public school students at the TB studios under the Leaps Ahead program. Students are outfitted with proper dance clothes and floors and are taught by Tulsa Ballet faculty staff. The traveling version of this program is called Leaps in Motion.

Another new entity is Tulsa Ballet II, TB's second company, which performs at the studios and in schools in a 50-minute program called "Journey Through Dance," an interactive presentation of the history of dance. With these programs, the Ballet is making dance available to all interested, not just a "select few.

The other project Angelini and the Tulsa Ballet are working on is to make TB a national force in the creation and evolution of the art form of ballet.

"We are already well on our way to realizing this dream, as works created here in Tulsa for TB have been later performed in other companies and communities including Ballet West in Salt Lake City, Orlando Ballet, Louisville Ballet and so on," said Angelini.

"But there is a renewed emphasis on shaping the future of the art form from Tulsa. In the spring of 2008 we will open a brand new theater, an intimate space that will be dedicated entirely to creations, and we will be debuting three World Premieres every year for the foreseeable future in that performance hall."

Feet Firmly Planted

Angelini directs the Tulsa Ballet with passion, enthusiasm and consistent anticipation for the future.

Principal Ma Cong, who is proving to be as much a force to be reckoned with as a choreographer as he is a dancer, said, "In working with Marcello, I have learned so many things that I don't think I could learn anywhere else.

"First, his artistry is like an ocean," Cong continues. "Every day you will have something new to learn, and he will explain ballet technique precisely as he is teaching us to insert our emotions into ballet.

"Everything he says has meaning in it to make us discover ourselves and find our talents. And he cares about dancing quality so much. He is really helping our art form grow in Tulsa and in the U.S.

"I think the most important thing Marcello contributes to Tulsa Ballet is that he makes the organization a wide-open window to the world," says Cong. "And he has made Tulsa Ballet in a short time to become one of the best ballet companies in the world and to be recognized internationally."

"Above all his other gifts, which are numerous, Marcello leads by example," said Martin. "He's a consummate perfectionist, and he expects his dancers to strive for excellence on many levels, which is no small feat. At the basest level, it is about integrity, drive and dedication.

"He would never ask of us that which he would not give of himself. This is probably the most important thing an artistic director can offer, and he has done it every day for as long as I've known him."

The Tulsa Ballet is a real asset to Tulsa. I hope all Tulsans realize that, and that the city milk it for all its worth. TB can be the ambassador for Tulsa that the Cleveland Orchestra is for Cleveland. It blows away stereotypes, exemplifies excellence, and can be a unique economic center. For example, the Cleveland International Piano Competition would not have the respect it has worldwide without the Orchestra leaving a footprint of credibility in musical communities overseas.

What could OKC's ambassador be?

The OKC Philharmonic and the OKCMOA...

Umm coming from the outside like some 5000 miles east or west of Oklahoma-- I see OKC as being the current growth leader but Tulsa is just now getting in the game... I just see that OKC is the capital and really had that advantage...

I can't quite get why ever is so jealous over OKC in Tulsa... It's like you can't even talk about it... But it seems like the same for OKC citizens... Do u guys really tell visitors to Hey you guys should go check out Tulsa ...? NOPE!!!

Do u guys really tell visitors to Hey you guys should go check out Tulsa ...? NOPE!!!

Absolutely. Maybe Tulsa should grow up and do the same.

Absolutely. Maybe Tulsa should grow up and do the same.

So how do we know that most of you guys say hey go visit Tulsa because as I read throw the post that members have made, it doesn't seem like it...

Plus it's only a city, same old same old... You guys might have some thing that Tulsa doesn't but Tulsa might have something that OKC doesn't...

As of growth wise-- OKC is on the ball and Tulsa just got in the game...

Why in the world did someone stir this crap up again? Let the thread die folks. There's no reason to waste time on this back and fourth crap. We go through this junk all the time with each city saying they are better than the other...it gets really old. Just clamp it shut and stop posting.

[QUOTE=Rage 2.0;84172Plus it's only a city, same old same old... You guys might have some thing that Tulsa doesn't but Tulsa might have something that OKC doesn't...[/QUOTE]

Exactly why we should both recognize the value of the other city, rather than ignoring it.

or putting the other down

Right now, OKC has more energy, a better downtown, a better music scene, a better restaurant scene, a much bigger population and much more momentum.

Your right OKC does...

There is so much potential in Tulsa but people down here are so hard headed... We have proposals every week... Just Last Week-- $15 million on new river park trails...

Bomber, Rage is new to the board and the OKC/Tulsa topic. While the OKC/Tulsa topic may be getting old for you, opinions should always be welcomed. Sometimes, things on the board seem to be running a little slowly and threads remain stagnant, so I don't mind if a long thread is revisited. The OKC/Tulsa thread seems to be a popular topic these days and I'm sure the moderators are happy with the traffic as long as people play by the rules.

Thanks for the warm Welcome but I knew bomber from another site...

It's not that I mind people restarting threads, it's just this one where it always seems that someone starts bashing the other city. I'm not saying Rage was going to do that at all or anything. If you look back in the other pages though, you get through a few posts and people start pissing on each other about how their town is better instead of just coming to the realization that both cities are great places and each has it's strong points. I'd much rather see a thread discussing the cities individually rather than comparing to each other.

Rage made a gross generalization that none of us would ever tell a visitor to check out Tulsa, when in fact, I do that very often as do many others on this board.

First, let me say I have lived in both cities and love them both. On the question of population, however, I think OKC will continue to outpace Tulsa. I base this largely on what one would I guess call the "inertia factor." Back in 1930, the cities were virutally the same size: 185,000 for OKC and l41,000 for Tulsa. Since then OKC has had the greater gain every single decade (whether you consider city limits or metro area). The latest figues available from the census bureau are (for combined metro areas) 1,225,000 for OKC and 937,000 for Tulsa.
I see no compelling reason to think that this pattern won't continue. Through the years many have thought Tulsa had more potential for growth, especially at the time they were opening their Arkansas River port. And Tulsa does have a more impressive private entrerprise base. But when the census figures come in, OKC has always won the race.
As a postscript, some earlier posts have alluded to Tulsa being more cosmopolitan.
I think this was true in the past and may still hold to a certain extent. However the two cities have become more alike through the years, and the "cultural" scene in OKC these days is quite impressive.

As a postscript, some earlier posts have alluded to Tulsa being more cosmopolitan.
I think this was true in the past and may still hold to a certain extent. However the two cities have become more alike through the years, and the "cultural" scene in OKC these days is quite impressive.

Definitely agree with you there.

Anybody see the article in the JR about Vanguard and Dollar-Thrifty merging?

First, let me say I have lived in both cities and love them both. On the question of population, however, I think OKC will continue to outpace Tulsa. I base this largely on what one would I guess call the "inertia factor." Back in 1930, the cities were virutally the same size: 185,000 for OKC and l41,000 for Tulsa. Since then OKC has had the greater gain every single decade (whether you consider city limits or metro area). The latest figues available from the census bureau are (for combined metro areas) 1,225,000 for OKC and 937,000 for Tulsa.
I see no compelling reason to think that this pattern won't continue. Through the years many have thought Tulsa had more potential for growth, especially at the time they were opening their Arkansas River port. And Tulsa does have a more impressive private entrerprise base. But when the census figures come in, OKC has always won the race.
As a postscript, some earlier posts have alluded to Tulsa being more cosmopolitan.
I think this was true in the past and may still hold to a certain extent. However the two cities have become more alike through the years, and the "cultural" scene in OKC these days is quite impressive.

very well said redland, and I agree for the most part. :)

Anybody see the article in the JR about Vanguard and Dollar-Thrifty merging?

Yeah-- It would create the 3rd largest rent-a-car company in the US...

Now if they would just pick a single name for these places...geez. Dollar-Thrifty-Budget-etc...all of them operating with different names but IN the same company!!!!

Some articles are saying Dollar-Thrifty is a subsidiary of Chysler, but I was under the impression they were Tulsa based, and had separated from Chrysler.

Dollar Thrifty is owned by the guy married to the mayor of Tulsa... Maybe their are some ties to Chysler but it's a Tulsan...

They need to create a good name-- I wonder which one they would keep...

I like Vanguard

No, Vanguard is owned by the mayor's husband, and he only moved it there in the last 2 or 3 years. Dollar-Thrifty's been there longer.

Wait are you sure??? It can't be because he lived in Florida before Tulsa but always had a house...

Then the mayor just got finished building this mega house (set a record for last year according to the books) and it's a diffrent guy... Im pretty sure its Dollar CEO...

I remember hearing about it. Vanguard was based in Ft. Lauderdale or Miami and he bought it or took it over and moved it to Tulsa because that's where his wife lived. (she wasn't mayor at the time, she was something else)

Hey folks, this isnt a zero sum game. OKC and Tulsa can co-exist and BOTH be great cities in thier own right. Having said that, the private sector is great and all, and I'm all for business start-ups, but the big corporations are the one's the support most of the charities and fundraisers in Oklahoma. The ones I see are Devon, Chesapeake and OGE. Maybe Williams and Oneok contribute in T-town, but its not statewide. In any case, Oklahoma is picking up momentum and I, for one, say let's roll.

AMEN Ricky. Both cities have potential to really blossom in their own ways. The cosmopolitan nature of life in both towns has improved dramatically and will only get better.

And, for the record, What exists in Oklahoma City IS promoted as being Oklahoma. Here in Tulsa we don’t have red dirt, we don’t have a lot of cowboys, we actually have hills, trees and rivers. We are not located on the plains. No dust bowl. There was no land run here. All of these things are heavily promoted as being fundamental to Oklahoma, and just simply aren’t true here.

See, it's crap like this that made this Los Angeleno start to despise Tulsans. Everything above is nothing more than shortsided slams. Typical Tulsan.

And oh, if you wanna brag about rivers, hills and trees, give NASHVILLE (another capital city) a call. I'm sure they're laugh at what Tulsa has.

It's times like these I wish Sequoyah did become a state and Oklahoma wouldn't have to deal with this Tulsa arrogance.

JWil just move to Tulsa you Know you want to.:congrats:

JWil just move to Tulsa you Know you want to.:congrats:


Haha and I know you're not a friend in real-life. The only good thing about Tulsa is I-44 to St. Louis so I can see the Cardinals.

Denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial)


It's ok alot of people live with it.

Because of MAPS, Bricktown, and the snowball effect it has had in the Midtown/Tinker region, OKC has serious momentum as a city. Tulsa has been trying and failing to do something similar but recently shot itself in the foot when voting down their similar opportunity to develop recently.

For the first time in the past 25 years I've been central, OKC has a place you can point any type visitor to where they can go to do stuff. Bricktown and downtown has restaurants, nightlife, sports, etc, the midtown area is becoming a premium place to work and live, the new history museum is world class, a little farther north there's even more cultural and ethnic hot spots.

The growth in tourism has spread to the the mid/del area where you have thousands of brand new hotel rooms including the Sheraton/reed center and the world class venues at Rose State.

All in all, there's huge room for cultural growth which give OKC a major boost for attracting new business. It hasn't managed to capitalize on that yet, but the infrastructure and environment are perfectly suited for that.

SO, OKC will have significant growth in the next decade and could find itself the new happening metro area.

Tulsa is about ten years behind in developing a similar environment. However, there is a serious heritage to draw upon if it manages to get the citizens behind a large scale development initiative.

Where Tulsa has an advantage, right now, is to the east in Porter with the new Google facility. The technology corridor in the not so distant city, could fuel a huge new industrial base for Tulsa. Porter will have huge growth because of this business which will attract other similar high end technology businesses.

Few of these workers will live in Porter--it is too isolated and rural--but there are dozens of suburbs on the east and southeast side of Tulsa which will house these new workers. As a result, Tulsa could see the kind of development Austin Texas and numerous other regional technology hubs have had over the past decade.

So, my prediction is both areas are situated right now for significant growth. The kinds of growth will be different but they are both in the right place to capitalize on opportunities.

They could also blow it with only a few wrong steps.

If Devon and Chesapeake crater, that will stunt OKC.

IF Tulsa continues to vote against funding civic development, that will stunt it's opportunities.

However, both have some serious momentum going right now.

It's exciting to see.

I don't see any contest. Oklahoma City feels like it's on the move and Tulsa feels like it's trying to hold on to what it had. I like both cities, but Oklahoma City reminds me of Charlotte twenty years ago.

If Devon and Chesapeake crater, that will stunt OKC.

Which brings the key point to long term success: diversify. diversify. diversify. Oklahoma City has relied far too long on energy and agricultural commodities for its wealth. It will be key to see either new industries evolve or see these companies invest in newer more up and coming industries. We have seen this some in the bio-engineering sector, but we can hardly call ourselves a leader in this sector at this point. We all remember the dot-com bust, but it will still be key to increase the share of technology development and technology services in our portfolio. I doubt we can become a major player in that field anytime soon, but we still need some of it for stability and growth. As we all know, the energy sector could collapse within months and, for now, as energy goes so goes Oklahoma City and no NBA team, cultural center, or rational zoning codes will fix that. That needs to change.

Actually, energy and agriculture are way secondary to state and federal government.

Tinker AFB and the State of OK are the biggest single employers. Add to that Tinker's supporting businesses and the other govenment employers and you have energy and agriculture outnumbered by a factor of about ten.

Cheasapeake and Devon are mere drops in the bucket. But they are still major employers we can't really afford to lose.

The main point is well taken, however. We need lots more diversity. It Tinker were to close--and there's no reason to think it will in the near future--our local economy would go to hell.

I think we are diversifying. Dell, Hertz, Loves, Hobby Lobby, all continue to grow.

Hopefully these kinds of big employers will continue to find OKC.

Edmond_Outsider,

Don't forget about Quad Graphics, Dobson (which was bought out by AT&T, don't know if jobs are relocating yet or not though), American Fidelity, SandRidge Energy, Century Martial Arts, Lopez Foods, York, and others are all major employers in OKC.

Oh and Google is locating to Pryor, not Porter (which I'm not even sure if that's a town in Oklahoma).

Actually, energy and agriculture are way secondary to state and federal government.

Which is probably another reason for concern.

Why would government be a concern? Tinker has proven time and again that it won't be going anywhere, and is in fact growing. The new Boeing facility across from the base (17 hangers folks) is under construction. Plus Tinker is interested in purchsing the GM facility.

State wise, as long as there is a state/local government, there will be offices that have to be staffed. And since the state has shown an increase in the amount of office space over the last 10 years, then I don't see how you can be worried about it. FYI - the office space in Shepard Mall is significantly heavy on the government sector until they move into a new building on Lincoln that has been discussed for some time.

Now, I can agree on the energy sector issue. We definitely rely heavily on energy in OKC, but so does Tulsa. All I have to say is Williams. But OKC has also been working hard to diversify it's economy ever since the oil bust. It has really only taken off after MAPs. Energy makes a lot of money, and will continue to do so until an alternative fuel is found. The only question will be, will the companies here get boughy by someone larger.