Yup, he's back on ignore. Just report his posts since Pete and Martin don't read every thread, they tend to miss behavior such as what he tends to display on multiple threads.

Behavior, you mean opinions, statements, ideas....? This is a forum. I'm a big boy and can handle myself as you already know. ...

Yup, he's back on ignore. Just report his posts since Pete and Martin don't read every thread, they tend to miss behavior such as what he tends to display on multiple threads.

The health of any forum is only as good as the participants. Loss of Life, Safety, cost, design, economic ideas, Entertainment, food, ...I feel very strong about my position.

But Venture, who are you????? that you feel you and can try to "scare" me out my participation on this forum? Maybe it is time you need to push away from that computer and get some fresh air. You are not letting others share on this forum. Maybe it is time for you to find another hobby.

I did see your distasteful video. My response to that - how may people get struck by a train today at commuter rail stations? What cities have you been in and used their commuter rail service? List them.

Still hoping you can share your personal experiences of other city's commuter rail systems.

Crickets

LOL...

I would like to address the earlier posts about streetcar on NE 23rd street. A couple things... 23rd street would be awesome for streetcar! It would be on the busiest bus route, could intersect with the Classen northbound line, Edmond commuter rail line, and the Ward 7 "Adventure Line" to the zoo.

A few years ago, (I think it was Betts, me, SW Aviator, and a couple others) went running around the State Capitol. We figured out that a platform could be installed under the bridges beneath the Capitol Complex and directly drop people off at the steps of the state capitol or tie into the underground tunnel system that connects most of the Capitol Complex buildings. The entrance to the tunnel is about 200' away. That would directly enable transit connectivity to the complex which essentially sits on an island inside a giant highway interchange. In terms of getting inside of the giant clover leaf, it is not a pedestrian friendly environment at all. Having a streetcar stop smack dab in the middle of it would really enable letting go of car travel to get there efficiently.

We also met with ODOT about this proposal. It was a hilarious but disappointing meeting. Our concern was that the underpass beneath I-235 is prone to flooding and would potentially disrupt streetcar service. They know about the problem, admitted to us that "there was a fix", and that it had just never "been a priority" but "they really should do something about it."

Not to derail the thread... but it is these conversations that have fueled my absolute distaste for our Highway Department.

Streetcar could directly tie the Edmond Commuter Rail Line to the Capitol Complex.

Now that just fires my imagination up. Extend the line going up Lincoln past the Health Center to the Capitol Complex, then take a left at 23rd and head west until we get to Classen to loop back into the rest of the system, and then keep going to tie the University in as well.

Still hoping you can share your personal experiences of other city's commuter rail systems.

I'd really like to hear from someone who has used the UTA (Salt Lake City) system...both TRAX and the Frontrunner. From everything that I've read, it's one of the best new rail transit systems in the west and is a great model for Oklahoma City.

Transportation Secretary Hails Utah's Rail System (http://ourtransitfuture.com/transportation-secretary-hails-utahs-rail-system/)

Salt Lake City Rail Transit System (http://www.rideuta.com/uploads/newrailmapDecember2013_large.jpg)

The idea of rail transit is one thing...finding a way to gain the necessary political support to develop it and the financial capital to build and operate it is entirely another story. A big piece of the funding equation for many cities involves major funding grants from the FTA. Clearly, based on Secretary Foxx's statements and the significant amount of federal funding that Salt Lake City has received, the FTA likes what they are doing. We would be wise to emulate their efforts.

Of the various peer cities for Oklahoma City to look toward, Salt Lake City is more similar to OKC in geographic size, population density, economic activity and political leanings than most of the others. Like Oklahoma City, Salt Lake City once had an extensive streetcar transit system that disappeared in the 1940's and was slowly replaced by buses.

Salt Lake City Streetcar History (http://historytogo.utah.gov/salt_lake_tribune/history_matters/120901.html)

Like Oklahoma City, Salt Lake City's bus transit system struggled for many years to provide adequate transit service. But in 1969, Salt Lake County and others heavily lobbied the Utah Legislature and secured passage of a bill allowing local communities to solve their transit needs by creating regional transit districts (sound familiar...the Oklahoma Legislature just passed HB 2480 allowing for OKC to do the same). In 1970, Utah Transit Authority was created. By 1980 UTA began developing plans for rail transit service. However, it wasn't until 1999, spurred on by the coming Winter Olympics, that Salt Lake City finally made the decision to construct it's first Light Rail line. In 2008, Salt Lake City opened its first Commuter Rail Line from downtown north to Ogden (think Edmond), and recently opened its second Commuter Rail line to Provo (think Norman). Both lines have very successful ridership.

UTA History (http://www.rideuta.com/uploads/FactSheet_History_2012new.pdf)

UTA Frontrunner (http://www.rideuta.com/uploads/Frontrunner_factsheet8272013.pdf)

A considerable portion of Salt Lake City's TRAX Light Rail system operates in the street and in traffic, much like Modern Streetcars. So, an Oklahoma City regional transit system based on an extensive Light Rail Modern Streetcar system within the densest areas of Oklahoma City coupled with a Commuter Rail system serving Edmond and Norman would look and function very similar to the Salt Lake City system, which in my opinion is a great system to strive for.

^^Thanks Ernest Istook...

Yeah, Vis's comment about not knowing if 23rd was necessary made him lose any credibility he had left in my book. How can you avoid 23rd and I-235 where the capital that employs thousands of people is a few blocks away and one of the most up and coming areas is the Uptown district? You could run a streetcar line through DD, up Lincoln and through the OU Med area, then further north to 23rd, west through Uptown and south down Classen. That would give you close access to the Plaza District and buses that would go by OCU. Then, run it back down Classen to 13th and reconnect with the original streetcar line. You would not have to run through HH/MP but would go on three sides of it.

So, where would be good stops on the MWC line? I am not familiar with that area enough to warrant an opinion. Also, I am not sure what line they would be using.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4520262,-97.3896091,14z

Look at the corner of Reno and Sooner Road. There's a diagonal line that goes from there to the middle of Air Depot. It then continues diagonally close to the intersection of Midwest Blvd and 15th. From there it goes across 15th, and then hooks around and goes back towards Midwest Blvd and 29th. That's the old rail line, I believe it's completely abandoned right now.

The proposed path would take Reno all the way through Del City, and then angle over on the old rail tracks through MWC. So I'd see the major stops as:

Corner of Reno and Sooner
Middle of Air Depot (aka the "Golden Corral" stop)
Maple Dr (Midwest City High School and Mid-Del Technology Center)
15th & MW Blvd (Uptown Center)
29th and MW Blvd (David Stanley)

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4520262,-97.3896091,14z

Look at the corner of Reno and Sooner Road. There's a diagonal line that goes from there to the middle of Air Depot. It then continues diagonally close to the intersection of Midwest Blvd and 15th. From there it goes across 15th, and then hooks around and goes back towards Midwest Blvd and 29th. That's the old rail line, I believe it's completely abandoned right now.

The proposed path would take Reno all the way through Del City, and then angle over on the old rail tracks through MWC. So I'd see the major stops as:

Corner of Reno and Sooner
Middle of Air Depot (aka the "Golden Corral" stop)
Maple Dr (Midwest City High School and Mid-Del Technology Center)
15th & MW Blvd (Uptown Center)
29th and MW Blvd (David Stanley)

I like that route. You could do the stop south of Reno, east of Sooner where there is currently an old bar and have a park and ride in the old Anthony's north of there.

There seems to be a descent amount of land on the west side of Air Depot north of the tracks for a stop and then expand the parking lot further.

There is an old building north of the tracks and east of MWB that could be torn down and replaced with a stop, so I like that one as well.

29th and MWB would be the most interesting stop to me because you have Tinker just to the south and the most shopping half a mile to the west.

Of course, all of these stops would have to run with the bus system to make it easier for people to ride.

Thanks for the input.

This is NOT a futuristic technology, Texas is doing it NOW w/ Japan Central . ...so why can't we? ...if we have a way of funding it, then wouldn't we want the Best for OKC Metro?

...again, Grandma is not riding the big heavy diesel loco to go see her Dr. at OU Health.

I admire your passion, but you're in danger of overposting. Can you at least open your mind to other alternatives? Is is possible that the people who invest hours of their lives on this subject every single week, and have direct relationships with key stakeholders and decision makers, know a bit more about this than you? I admire your passion but you're becoming a broken record. Also, you completely ignore input from others.

And he is now banned, so we can move on and have intelligent conversations where people can sometimes see both sides of the coin.

OK, after reading OKVision's ridiculous troll posts, I'm ready for a swap of bchris. Can we take bchris out of detention and put another troll poster in time out? He's not adding substance to the conversation.

And he is now banned, so we can move on and have intelligent conversations where people can sometimes see both sides of the coin.

Oh, good to hear. The mods here are doing a great job. It's OK to disagree, and argue your point, but when someone just trolls entire threads and ignores new input and information (and accuses good posters here of being agents in a conspiracy), it's time to boot them. Glad to see the board ops recognizing how much trolling undermines quality discussion here.

Regional rail-based transit system plan could reach voters in a few years (http://okgazette.com/2014/08/18/regional-rail-based-transit-system-plan-could-reach-voters-in-a-few-years/)


Oklahoma City might be more than a decade away from having a truly regional public transportation system, but it’s also already well down the road toward creating one.

A well-researched route for streetcars and a commuter rail? Check.

Passed legislation that allows for the creation of a regional transit authority? Check. Conversations and support from various city leaders? Check.

“I don’t think that the type of regional transit [system] we envision for Oklahoma City is just around the corner; I think it’s a ways off [from completion],” Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett said. “But keep in mind how far we’ve come.”

...

This probably isn't the correct place for these pics, but a train went by earlier this afternoon with nothing but passenger cars. Probably 15 cars long. The last car has the curved class on the roof. I hope this will one day be a very common sight in OKC!

93839384

This probably isn't the correct place for these pics, but a train went by earlier this afternoon with nothing but passenger cars. Probably 15 cars long. The last car has the curved class on the roof. I hope this will one day be a very common sight in OKC!

93839384

I'm certain that's a BNSF business train or company train dedicated to transporting veterans.

I'm certain that's a BNSF business train or company train dedicated to transporting veterans.

Yep, it's BNSF's business train. But I don't think it's dedicated to transporting veterans, they use it for many things. The rear car has theater-style seating and a large window so that executives can review the rails as they tour the system.

That's really cool! Thanks. Seeing passenger cars (non-HF) was an unusual sight, but very welcomed.

Yep, it's BNSF's business train. But I don't think it's dedicated to transporting veterans, they use it for many things. The rear car has theater-style seating and a large window so that executives can review the rails as they tour the system.

Yep, I've seen the rear car sitting up in the yard north of 23rd for more than a few months. I might have been thinking of Union Pacific. They did a special touring train for current veterans and their families.

yes that is the BNSF executive train they do use it for conferences and examining rail lines. a friend of mine is the on board chef.

yes that is the BNSF executive train they do use it for conferences and examining rail lines. a friend of mine is a the on board chef.

Way off the commuter rail topic, but that's awesome. I'd love to be on a railroad's board.

From The Edmond Sun


OKLAHOMA CITY — The citizens of Central Oklahoma will journey one step closer to regional transit when six local mayors gather next week to sign an historic agreement. The ceremony will memorialize the creation of the Central Oklahoma Regional Task Force which will develop a Regional Transit Authority (RTA) for the region.

The agreement signing with take place at 3 p.m. Dec. 1 at the Santa Fe Station, 100 S. E.K. Gaylord Blvd. in Oklahoma City. Santa Fe Station is designated the regional transit hub.

Along with Edmond Mayor Charles Lamb, Mick Cornett, mayor of Oklahoma City; Cindy Rosenthal, mayor of Norman; Glenn Lewis, Mayor of Moore; Dee Collins, Mayor of Midwest City and Brian Linley, Sr., Mayor of Del City will be in attendance.

- read more here: Lamb to sign historic agreement to advance regional transit for central Oklahoma - The Edmond Sun: News (http://www.edmondsun.com/news/lamb-to-sign-historic-agreement-to-advance-regional-transit-for/article_11bc30f8-92f3-11e5-b6e9-3755403484be.html)

Yep! It is exciting! It will be a history making moment when the agreement is consumated.

I can't wait. I am excited for this to move from talk to where we are placing the stations and and putting down new track or upgrading the existing.

Dont get too excited. Rail takes many years and up-front tax collections. There will also be inevitable environmental and NIMBY lawsuits to settle. Then there will have to be the also-inevitable follow-up tax election because cost overruns and inflation would otherwise cause the outlying burbs to be skipped.

Now that I got the negativity out, I hope it works out flawlessly and they can get tons of Federal subsidies.

Legislative interference in 3...2...

You do realize that the legislature virtually unanimously approved the legislation twice to enable this to move forward? Not saying that that couldn't change.

Also, yes mugofbeer, we are probably 8 - 12 years away from seeing a functional system. Planting seeds for the city of the future.

That was tongue-in-cheek, UP. Don't get worked up. I'm just imagining a few base-pandering legilsative ears perking up when they hear the words "federal subsidies." They also of course tend to have a problem with municipalities daring to practice self-determination.

That was tongue-in-cheek, UP. Don't get worked up. I'm just imagining a few base-pandering legilsative ears perking up when they hear the words "federal subsidies." They also of course tend to have a problem with municipalities daring to practice self-determination.

They also perk up when they hear "transit".

It's a huge talking point for some conservatives up here. I remember one politician running his campaign platform on "he opposed every light rail transit expansion to date." Not sure he won.

In moore the train stop would probably be at the station at central park. There will be plenty of parking right by the tracks and I believe the old train depot is suppose to be relocated there. It makes perfect sense now that the park is called the station. I bet this was the plan all along to have a working train stop there

Certainly many know this: The old Santa Fe station (not the Oklahoma (electric) Railway) was moved to South Shields Blvd and is the office for a car dealership.

Certainly many know this: The old Santa Fe station (not the Oklahoma (electric) Railway) was moved to South Shields Blvd and is the office for a car dealership.

yes a lot of long time moore residence know that, the city was in talks of moving it to the station at central park. I don't know if the city currently leases it to the car dealership but it sounds like it.

there's something distinctly tragic about an old train station being used as a car dealership

You do realize that the legislature virtually unanimously approved the legislation twice to enable this to move forward? Not saying that that couldn't change.

Also, yes mugofbeer, we are probably 8 - 12 years away from seeing a functional system. Planting seeds for the city of the future.

Like urbanized, I didn't know that either. Thanks for that info.

I do think there is a remarkable trend of the state legislature "responding" to override OKC actions...

yes a lot of long time moore residence know that, the city was in talks of moving it to the station at central park. I don't know if the city currently leases it to the car dealership but it sounds like it.

Sounds like a public works kind of solution...

Commuter rail is one step closer to reality - Norman Transcript: Government (http://www.normantranscript.com/news/government/commuter-rail-is-one-step-closer-to-reality/article_4382abca-164d-5eac-8ba2-9a2f2fbd66e3.html)

Like urbanized, I didn't know that either. Thanks for that info.

I do think there is a remarkable trend of the state legislature "responding" to override OKC actions...

I actually was aware, thanks to news coverage. My post was an opportunistic joke.

Well feel free to keep 'em coming lol..

I remembered mentioning this some time ago, but for the life of me I can't remember if I posted this or not. Apologies if this is a duplicate post! Months ago I was playing around with Google Maps and came up with my idea of what a commuter rail network in central Oklahoma could look like, using existing rail corridors. The lines are probably longer than revenue service would support, at least initially; I followed a similar model to the way Metra service in Chicago runs, connecting some more rural population centers into downtown. I also named the lines after predecessor railroads, with colors to match.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z1cEJVEc_pZA.kXfx5EVVpX-E&usp=sharing

I remembered mentioning this some time ago, but for the life of me I can't remember if I posted this or not. Apologies if this is a duplicate post! Months ago I was playing around with Google Maps and came up with my idea of what a commuter rail network in central Oklahoma could look like, using existing rail corridors. The lines are probably longer than revenue service would support, at least initially; I followed a similar model to the way Metra service in Chicago runs, connecting some more rural population centers into downtown. I also named the lines after predecessor railroads, with colors to match.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z1cEJVEc_pZA.kXfx5EVVpX-E&usp=sharing

I agree in principle with your map but the one line that has the best chance of working is the one that would need the most work. The BNSF from Norman to Edmond is mostly single track. With the large number of freights already using the line, I can see little incentive for BNSF to spend the capital necessary to eliminate at-grade crossings, double track longer sections, etc.

Though it would definitely improve efficiency, BNSF wouldn't necessarily need to go to double track (DT) or two main track (2MT) operation in order to enable commuter rail - and no grade crossings would have to be eliminated. Several of the lines that Metra runs over have significant sections that are single-track with more than half of their road crossings at grade. You would definitely need at least a siding in single-track areas for stations, however.

I have heard vague rumors that BNSF is thinking of going 2MT on the Red Rock Sub (the North-South BNSF mainline that we're discussing here) because of the level of freight traffic over the line, so if they decide to do that, it could help the RTA as well.

Baralheia, I completely love your commuter rail route map and absolutely think it would be a huge hit. I too thought of the routing just as you have, but you figured out how to make the WRWA routing work by connecting it into Mustang and Tuttle.

I LOVE that you chose terminal stops at Purcell and Guthrie (instead of JUST Norman and Edmond) as you'd really capture the entire OKC metro by serving the CSA and not just the inner MSA. I also love how you tied in E OK county and Shawnee. Finally, I love your stops; nicely spaced and not too many since this is COMMUTER RAIL (not light rail or streetcar). Completely doable from a commute standpoint (trips an hour or less), anywhere in the metro to get downtown (or a metro suburb) using this system.

Kudos - get on the Oklahoma City Metro RTA quick!!!

I suggest moving the will rogers bus transfer to Newcastle/MacArthur where it could more easily server all four important sites in area... Airport, Air Guard, Metro Tech, FAA... via 54th. Seems like a small distinction, but as a worker in this area I think the bus route would be more practical from this spot.

Probably could also server Hobby Lobby and OCCC by bus from here.

Commuter rail to the airport shouldn't be a priority. I don't even think it's worth having a stop. I think the stop should be moved west towards FAA like Shawn suggested.

You need frequency to the airport, and commuter rail can't provide that. And, ultimately you need the airport to be the terminus of its own line. You need out of town travelers to be able to see the train standing at the station, or else they will be confused and a little weary of the system and may opt to just rent a car at the airport. Also, a bus system to shuttle to the station creates a double transfer, adding more possibilities to miss a train. If commuter rail runs hourly, and the bus driver is in no hurry, he may end up missing the train and leaving people to wait an hour for the next commuter train.

Another advantage to having the line terminus at the airport is it gives people a chance to stow their luggage and find a seat before the train begins to move. And they (and their luggage) will have the first grab at seats. Boarding a train that is just stopping for a moment in the middle of its line, and is potentially full of passengers means added stress in trying to locate a seat and room for luggage. Not being at the terminus also means the possibility of someone boarding the opposite direction train.

We need to serve the airport right when it comes time to do so, and not a band aid attempt with commuter rail via bus transfer. We need frequent light rail or streetcar service on an airport dedicated line running down Reno from downtown, and down Meridian straight to the terminal.

These are all good points, and the feedback is definitely appreciated! It's a fun mental exercise to try and plan these sorts of things out. I also had to take a few artistic liberties, primarily with the Rock Island Line, to allow the trains to get onto the BNSF viaduct and up to Santa Fe Station; that connection would require reconfiguring the support columns under Shields, as well as a bunch of dirtwork to enable the climb up to the viaduct. It would likely be an expensive connection to create but I don't think it would be completely impossible. Without that connection, the RI line would need to stop at Union Station, with no easy transfer to the other two lines.

My main inspiration for this layout (and my only real-world experience with commuter rail) is the Metra system in Chicago, which does offer service to O'Hare in much the same manner as I proposed here; the airport runs the shuttle buses to the O'Hare Transfer station on the North Central Service (NCS) line. Metra is generally able to provide 15-30 minute frequency to this station during the morning rush, and then 30 - 60 minute frequency during the rest of the day. The stop works quite well for Metra, but it is not the only mass transit option to get to O'Hare - The CTA has an 'L' station on the Blue Line that serves O'Hare. Both transit methods are effective for transportation to and from the airport.

Streetcar or light rail service directly to the airport would certainly be the ideal, and we should absolutely work towards that end - but a shared station for WRWA, FAA, MetroTech, and ANG would definitely be a useful and successful transit option for commuters. I tried to balance the location between the hotels and the neighborhoods to the north and east with the airport and FAA/MetroTech/ANG to the south and southwest, so that the stop would have far more uses than it's name would immediately suggest. Moving it down to MacArthur & Newcastle Rd would allow for more space for parking directly across the street, and get it closer to the Hobby Lobby campus, but it would be farther from the hotels and neighborhoods. I do agree that frequency could be an issue in our system, as our system likely would not have the ridership or available trainsets to enable such a high frequency; hourly service would probably be feasible, however.

As this whole exercise is merely conceptual, I laid the system out the way I thought it might work - though I do have my doubts that Tuttle, Purcell, and Noble would generate enough ridership for those stations to be economically feasible. Shawnee ridership would probably be high enough to subsidize the Choctaw, Harrah, and McLoud stations. In the connected suburbs, I chose station placement as close to downtown/main street as possible because those areas are typically the economic centers of smaller communities and leisure riders would be able to more easily get to shopping or restaurants. I also attempted (as much as possible, anyway) to place stops where there were existing stations and platforms; Purcell, for instance, would require little to no additional money to initiate service, as their existing platform is in good shape and currently serves AMTRAK trains.

Technically there have already been public meetings where they had notional markers in likely stop locations both between Edmond/Norman and between downtown and MWC. Pretty sure that was an ACOG run thing at the time. It's been a couple years I think.

I remember they had us marking up the map if we though stops should be different or if the path of the line should be different.

we may not need to 'start' with the route serving El Reno, Purcell, Guthrie, Tuttle, and Shawnee - but the long-term goal should be to fully connect the metro area and you can't leave out those cities as they are the fringe (and likely 'could' capture riders from outside of the metro). On this note, perhaps the Tuttle route should eventually go to Chickasaw (again, to fully connect the metro area).

All of those are cities that START/END the OKC metro area, so there should ideally be a stop eventually even though none of them (maybe save Shawnee) currently have the population to support the line by themselves.

shawnw - If there's a publicly accessible map showing these proposed stops, that would definitely be awesome to see; makes me wonder how close my ideas are to what's really being proposed.

HOT ROD - No, I totally agree, and that's why I developed my routes as I did. This would be an example of a fully fleshed-out system, not what it would look like in the beginning. I didn't think about connecting Chickasha; As the crow flies, it's roughly the same distance from downtown OKC as Shawnee is - and it is part of the Oklahoma City MSA. If there was enough traffic to and from Chickasha, that could very well subsidize the Tuttle and/or Mustang stops, and maybe even a stop in Amber. The difficulty with a stop in Chickasha would be that the old Rock Island Depot is on the north-south Union Pacific line; there currently is no easy wye connection between these two rail lines to make this connection happen, but it would appear that building one would not be too involved. The depot was restored just over 15 years ago by the Chickasha Antique Auto Club; the building serves as their offices as well as a transportation museum, and I believe they are the current owners of the property. If they were agreeable to allowing the building to return to a transportation use, this would be a beautiful station and entrance to Chickasha; for commuters to and from OKC there is a sizable amount of clear property to the south that could be acquired for parking, as well.

again, very well thought out plan!!!

Please attend, present, and if possible JOIN the ACOG/RTD. You're plans are spot on and you have done some great research into feasibility of your routes. :)

Though it would definitely improve efficiency, BNSF wouldn't necessarily need to go to double track (DT) or two main track (2MT) operation in order to enable commuter rail - and no grade crossings would have to be eliminated. Several of the lines that Metra runs over have significant sections that are single-track with more than half of their road crossings at grade. You would definitely need at least a siding in single-track areas for stations, however.

I have heard vague rumors that BNSF is thinking of going 2MT on the Red Rock Sub (the North-South BNSF mainline that we're discussing here) because of the level of freight traffic over the line, so if they decide to do that, it could help the RTA as well.

Where does OKC stand with double stacked freight? I know that's been a huge economic development boon for Columbus. It might be a good win-win to help them pay for double-stack lines across the metro and work with the state to enable the line north to Kansas and south to Texas. In addition to the boon that rail transit would be, having double-stack freight access to Texas and Kansas would really make the OKC metro an attractive place for manufacturing.

OKC only has about 2/3rds its natural share of manufacturing jobs, so that sector is under represented. We also talk a lot in a vacuum about "economic diversification" whatever the hell that means. Infrastructure and workforce training are the only two means to prove we mean it when it comes to economic diversification and development. Sadly, we know the state is an unreliable partner toward that end, let alone toward anything that benefits OKC. Mostly because we don't know what we want from the state, and our voters seem to just want more social conservatism and we'll call it good. Only reason I bring that is up is because the state owes us a lot.

To my knowledge, BNSF's Red Rock Sub, cutting north-south through OKC, has the necessary clearances required to handle double-stack intermodal trains, and I'm almost positive I've seen double-stacks roll through town. Compared to the BSNF Transcon, the transcontinental route through northwest Oklahoma, intermodal volume on the Red Rock Sub pales in comparison - despite it handling the third highest intermodal volume of any rail line in Oklahoma in 2009.

Not sure where to put this, but I thought this was the most relevant spot. Feel free to move it if you want:

Regional transit could be on track by 2019

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record February 3, 2016

OKLAHOMA CITY – Metro area residents could see a ballot as soon as 2019 to establish governance and funding for a regional transit authority, officials said Wednesday.

Members of the multi-municipality task force examining the question under the umbrella of the Association of Central Oklahoma Governments said the likelihood of creating some sort of cross-metro bus or rail system soon is high. More research is in the works, said Edmond City Council member Victoria Caldwell, but ACOG talks over the last few years suggest the funding structure would involve an equation of population or rider ratios to avoid disproportionate costs.

That assumption is reflected in how the six cities – Edmond, Oklahoma City, Midwest City, Del City, Norman and Moore – have split costs so far. John Johnson, ACOG president, said the cities paid $511,000 for the first year of research, with Oklahoma City contributing about 64 percent of that total.

“This is a new concept for Oklahoma,” Johnson said. “It’s going to take a while politically and to work out the relationship between these six cities. That level of resources shows a serious commitment to the idea, that they’re willing to fund the enterprise as we go down the road.”

Johnson said the task force will meet at least once per month this year to draft the skeleton of an RTA for public review and approval. Each involved city will need to approve the plan for it to take off.

Caldwell said earlier dialogue suggested only a general sense of where primary transit lines might be needed – commuter rail linkages near the University of Oklahoma campus, for example, downtown Oklahoma City and Tinker Air Force Base. Some reorganization of bus routes, or rubber-tire technology, probably will be needed to improve continuity between cities, she said. Edmond’s bus stops at city limits aren’t necessarily near Oklahoma City’s bus stops.

The task force needs an open mind about governance structure, Johnson said, such as whether a single entity should run the full system across multiple transit modes – bus and rail. Task force members cited several examples for comparison such as the Utah Transit Authority, which began as a system of four cities in 1970 and now serves 80 percent of Utah residents across 75 cities in six of the state’s 29 counties.

The Massachusetts Association of Regional Transit Authorities represents perhaps an epitome of how multiple agencies can work together without losing their identities. The state’s 16, densely packed RTAs grew out of state legislation in 1973 to allow contracting for transit services within districts. The MBTA, or Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority, is the largest and provides transit for the Boston metro.

The Massachusetts RTAs are supported by local taxes as well as state and federal assistance, MARTA spokeswoman Jeannette Orsino said. Regions collaborate with each other on projects as needed, typically paying proportionally by ridership or population with underlying government subsidies ensuring no one is denied service.

Oklahoma City might be more interested in younger systems more to the south and west, Norman Mayor Cindy Rosenthal said, citing examples such as Phoenix, Denver and Dallas. One such system, the Rio Metro Regional Transit District in Albuquerque, New Mexico, was formed in 2003. It is governed by the Mid-Region Council of Governments, which also serves as the agent for the New Mexico Department of Transportation to run the state’s Rail Runner Express commuter train between Belen and Santa Fe.

By early 2005, the New Mexico Transportation Commission approved the formation of the Mid-Region Transit District, encompassing three counties and their cities. The Mid-Region Council of Governments also developed commuter rail between Belen and Santa Fe at about the same time. Ultimately, voters in the three counties approved a one-eighth-of-a-cent tax to fund Rio Metro, with half of the revenue dedicated to rail and half to the overall system. Consolidated bus service came later.

As Orsino said, transit grows and evolves over time. The Oklahoma City metro system drawn up by the task force will certainly go through many changes as more travelers are attracted to it.

“We just don’t know what it’s going to look like yet,” said Michael Scroggins, spokesman for Oklahoma City’s Embark bus system, previously known as COTPA. “There are a lot of models to consider. Is the goal to bring all the bus services under a regional transit authority, or should that only involve commuter rail? It’s going to depend on what the public needs. This is COTPA’s 50th year and we have been the regional funding recipient for all the federal funds in the region, we have the knowledge and experience under our belt of how to navigate that system. It may be that we transition into that role. We just don’t know yet.”

Maybe it's time for an "RTA" thread?

All mass transit metro-wide needs to be brought in under a single entity, that also includes the airport and Amtrak. It maybe should include all forms of non-personal transportation and loop in oversight of Grayhound, Taxis, Uber/Lift, pedicabs, bike lanes, and sidewalks.

Then give it a cool name like GOCART - Greater Oklahoma City Area Regional Transit.

GOCART sounds like a kid's toy and not a serious solution, imhop.

How would AMTRAK operate under a regional municipal authority? The only way I can see that work is if you extended the RTA zone all the way down to Marrietta and get each city along the route to help subsidize service. The state would love that but that would be quite a burden for small towns.

I don't know... I like GOCART. It's easy to remember, and yeah, at first blush it does sound like something from childhood, until you know what it stands for (and even then, not a bad thing to have positive emotion associate with something you want folks to adopt).

Let's get the thing built first. We can name it any time.

probably harder to trademark gocart vs the existing Embark. I suspect they nominally disassociated it with a particular region hoping it could be considered for the RTA perhaps...

All mass transit metro-wide needs to be brought in under a single entity, that also includes the airport and Amtrak. It maybe should include all forms of non-personal transportation and loop in oversight of Grayhound, Taxis, Uber/Lift, pedicabs, bike lanes, and sidewalks.

Then give it a cool name like GOCART - Greater Oklahoma City Area Regional Transit.

GOCART is the absolute coolest name for metro transit. You get an A++ in my book. Any other name other than this is going to be a complete disappointment in my book.