Did anyone catch the article in last Friday's Journal Record about the possible 10-11 story condo tower with additional adjoining mixed use and retail on the east or south shore of Lake Hefner? It's not a done deal yet, just a proposal to the city. The moratorium on any further development ends here in a few weeks. I thought the renderings looked pretty nice and it would be a much better addition than Hogan's joke The East Wharf. Much denser and better use of the land. It will be interesting to see if it gets past groups such as the OKC Runners Club and Hal McKnight's OKC Bicycler's Club.

I'm opposed to this. There should be a height restriction along the shores of Lake Hefner. The current building where Hogan has his offices (name?) is as tall as should be allowed. Period.

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why?

Because it's a lake, a small lake with all sides visible. That doesn't make it oceanfront property, that makes it a small lake and a park. Stylish smallish buildings and restaurants in a concentrated area are great, but a 10-11 story tower? That would ruin the park-like quality (or what's left of it) at Lake Hefner. Besides, it would look awkward and out of place. At least that's my opinion. Others may (and obviously do) see it differently.

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I agree with you, writerranger. One of my favorite parts of running on the lake is the open atmosphere. The same applies to enjoying the view of the lake on the Parkway. If they start building large buildings, it'd ruin the skyline and create dense traffic in the area. I'm sure lake standards would more than likely suffer as well if lake patrol isn't at least beefed up. Why not build the tower where it's better accepted? Somewhere like oh, I don't know, downtown? :-D

Building height restriction is the dumbest idea ever. They cause the very problems proponents cite for creating the restrictions in the first place. It is worse for the lake water to have 2 five story building than a single 10 story building. In fact it is much worse.

I would prefer to see the highrise downtown or on the river but if the lake is where it makes economic sense then that is where it should go. Lake Hefner could become OKC's Central Park.

Building height restriction is the dumbest idea ever. They cause the very problems proponents cite for creating the restrictions in the first place. It is worse for the lake water to have 2 five story building than a single 10 story building. In fact it is much worse.

I would prefer to see the highrise downtown or on the river but if the lake is where it makes economic sense then that is where it should go. Lake Hefner could become OKC's Central Park.

Central Park has tall buildings around that flow into more tall buildings that....on and on. There's no comparison. I was writing about aesthetics as much as anything; I don't know a thing about how the lake water would react to two five story buildings versus one ten story building.

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I guess it depends on the architect. Some are very good at making buildings blend in with natural surroundings by using lines and colors that match the water and lake banks. Other aren’t so good. They design generic buildings that seem out of place no matter where they are built. A building along the lake that had green awnings at the ground floor with light blues on the exterior walls or even a blue tint to the glass could blend in very nice. Even at night it could be lit with soft blue light to make it glow but not over power the area.

This will never happen anyways. Trust me, the Sierra Club and the bicyclists, runners, etc. have a strong lobby. I'm sure city hall chambers will be crowded the day this is discussed, mostly with people that use the lake for recreation.

I am not in favor of a condo development on Lake Hefner. It's city land. It's for all of us to use. You put a condo development on the lake, and it starts to privatize portions of the lake. Why give city land to rich folks to enjoy?

I think the focus at Lake Hefner needs to remain entertainment and recreation.

I wouldn't mind a nice bike shop being built on the lake! A marina might even be nice. But, condos don't really fit with the vision I have for Lake Hefner.

I might be in favor of a high rise hotel near the restaurants.

I think we need to leave the high rise condos to downtown and the Oklahoma River. We have plenty of land to develop along the river.

Those are all very good points, Patrick. I agree with them all!

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Patrick you make good points and I agree with some of them. I know of many of the reasons you bring as well as that others have brought up and ones that were not. In fact, I was subcontracted by the city to do the research study on the lake's usage a few years back. I support a greener OKC, but Kerry also makes valid points that suburban sprawl and smaller buildings that create less density do in fact create the problems that many activists groups support (pollution, quality of life, traffic, etc.) I'm confused however, you mention that you agree the lake should be used for recreation and entertainment. The condo development clearly stated that it would have retail and restaurants. I think that retail and restaurants is just as much entertainment than what is out there now. In fact one of OKC's controversial developers Randy Hogan sits on a fat office overlooking the lake. More than likely the people that would occupy the condo's would be users of the lake, not polluters that don't enjoy it. I'd much rather see the condo's downtown or the river more than the next guy, but you're right, the activists won't let this happen, it's just sad they don't give the same treatment and high standards to other development in OKC.

Do you all even know what you're talking about? Re-read the article, and then draw me a map of where this development will be.

This will be due when I'm back on these forums, on Sunday... DO IT!!! lol...

By entertainment and recreation, I'm more in favor of upscale restaurants, hotels, bike shops, etc. I wasn't in favor of upscale office space.

metro, I do agree with most of your points though. If we are going to add more development to Lake Hefner, I'd rather it go vertical!

Patrick wants upscale restraunts, shopping, and hotels but he doesn't want rich people to enjoy the lake. Just who do you think goes to upscale restraunts, upscale shopping, and upscale hotels? Now those "rich" people can drive to the shopping by the lake or they can walk to shopping by the lake. In an effort to reduce traffic, some think it is better to drive to the lake. Go figure.

OFF TOPIC

Who is the lady on the Today Show that is from Oklahoma?

I don't get the 'ruins the views from Hefner Parkway' angle. Maybe more people show concentrate on the road.

Just a thought... :confused:

There are already a couple marinas on the lake, Patrick.

I don't get the 'ruins the views from Hefner Parkway' angle. Maybe more people show concentrate on the road.

Just a thought... :confused:

Ridiculous. How would you feel if some monster brick building covered up the skyline view from I-40? I mean, with your logic, you should be concentrating on the road anyway! Some of us don't like the idea of greenspace and what little water we have in town being obstructed by more glass and concrete! Gawd, I know when I shouldn't be on the forum and tonight is one of them. Sayonara.

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I just like that someone wants to build UP and not OUT. Lord knows we could use another 'office park'... :rolleyes:

:D

There are already a couple marinas on the lake, Patrick.

I'd like to see a marina where you can actually rent boats.

I see, as opposed to private marinas.

Isn't this development proposed for a property /east/ of the parkway? If that's the case, I certainly don't see any reason why it would ruin a lake experience.

Isn't this development proposed for a property /east/ of the parkway? If that's the case, I certainly don't see any reason why it would ruin a lake experience.That's my understanding. The proposed complex is to go on the east side of Hefner Parkway, where the little league ball parks are now. The ball parks are to be relocated to the south shore, near the model airplane field.

That's my understanding. The proposed complex is to go on the east side of Hefner Parkway, where the little league ball parks are now. The ball parks are to be relocated to the south shore, near the model airplane field.

That would be fine. I don't think anybody would argue that anything east of the parkway is part of the lake and recreational areas. Now, this sounds like a good idea!

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I just like that someone wants to build UP and not OUT.

Amen!

It would work well because that's at Britton, so residents could just cross over the bridge and have access to bike paths and everything else, plus, having retail and restaurants there will basically extend the East Wharf "district".

Isn't this development proposed for a property /east/ of the parkway? If that's the case, I certainly don't see any reason why it would ruin a lake experience.

That's my understanding. The proposed complex is to go on the east side of Hefner Parkway, where the little league ball parks are now. The ball parks are to be relocated to the south shore, near the model airplane field.

That would be fine. I don't think anybody would argue that anything east of the parkway is part of the lake and recreational areas. Now, this sounds like a good idea!

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Here is the problem: there is already a condo community on the east side of Hefner Parkway, and it's the place I call "home." Nantucket Condos have been in that area for the past 20 years, right next to the ball fields. They may not be high-rise, but those located on the west side of the community (like mine) offer residents a gorgeous view of the lake- sunsets, sailboats, etc. Some may try to argue that the restaurants already detract from my view, but I honestly do not mind them- they are closer to the shore, and they are no more than a couple of stories tall. Development of a high-rise building would take away one of my favorite things about my home and give it to someone else...in my opinion, it's like "Robin Hood" where Prince John takes from the poor to give to the rich. You know any high-rise real estate will be geared toward the upper class. I am a single, twenty-something woman purchasing my first home on my own. My condo in Nantucket has enabled me to purchase a newer piece of real estate in a safe area of the city at a price I can afford. It absolutely sickens me to think that someone wants to take this away from me. I've worked hard to get where I am, and am proud to own real estate at my age- real estate with a great view, at that. Some might say I should move into the new development if I want the view, but I would never do that for several reasons. For one, my condo feels more like a house the way it is laid out, whereas the artist's rendering of the high-rise condos looks more like an apartment or hotel. Second, I wouldn't be able to afford it, and even if I could afford it, I shouldn't have to move to keep something I already have. It's outrageous. A high-rise building not only affects me, but my neighbors as well. Property values would most likely decrease for all of the units on the west side. Also, the building would cast a large shadow (literally and figuratively) over the complex, affecting the ability of our landscaping to thrive, and also blocking our units from essential sunlight. Traffic on eastbound Britton from the parkway would be an absolute mess since the condos would be right off the exit...it's bad enough a few months out of the year for baseball season. As for the plan to relocate the baseball fields...the place where they are talking about building new fields isn't exactly the most convenient location- the south side of the lake is not easy to access from the highway. I just don't agree with what they are trying to do and hope they realize the negative effects it would have on so many people.

Where did you see a rendering, MEJ?

I think everyone is forgeting that the reason a condo wouldnt do well in that location is because in a few more weeks if they dont put water in Lake Hefner, it will no longer be a lake. ha.

It was in the December 8 issue of the OKC Friday paper that covers the NW OKC area (not the Oklahoman, though):

Advertise, Affluent, OKC FRIDAY, weekly newspaper, Oklahoma City Advertising, arts, civic, high school sports, country clubs, Nichols Hills, Village, Quail Creek, The Greens, PCNorth, Deer Creek, Casady, Heritage Hall, McGuiness, (http://www.okcfriday.com)

Hopefully you can see it...you might have to scroll down a bit. But that was where I first heard anything about this proposed project.

I really think this would be a cool deal. I agree with not making the lake this huge commercial (tall building, etc.) area but something nice like this on the southeast side would be awesome.

I really think this would be a cool deal. I agree with not making the lake this huge commercial (tall building, etc.) area but something nice like this on the southeast side would be awesome.
...Um, no, sorry...please refer to my original post. The east side is the only side of the lake that has commercial development at this point, and I think it has enough. The southwest side has the golf course, the south side has Hobie Point, the mini airstrip, and the original trails, and obviously the north side is the dam...there's just no feasible place around the lake where one could build a new condo complex. They want to put this thing in my backyard. I didn't buy my condo with a lake view so someone could come in and turn it into backside-of-building view, thus bringing down my property value. I can hardly imagine that Mr. Horton (one of the developers) would want such a structure built up at Hefner Pointe, because that would detract from whatever view of the lake he has from his office. I understand they want to attract more people to the lake, but believe me- people know it's there and they know all of the recreational opportunities it offers. I just think this would be a better project to build along the Oklahoma River and downtown. I don't mean to rant, but it just frustrates me.

I can understand your frustration MEJ, but the fact is that this is all private development. The developers of your condos built them at the risk of something going in between them and the lake that blocks your views. It happens all the time. Things happen all the time that affect property value for better or worse, and usually nothing can be done about it as far as the government goes. You and your neighbors could possibly appeal the city for some kind of height restriction, but I doubt you'd get it and it probably wouldn't help, because they could build 3 story condos and your view would still be blocked.

But look on the bright side. If these developers even come through, it probably won't be done for 2 or 3 years.

Everyone blocks someones view of something. If the condos going up next to you are more expensive than your condo then your value goes up too. Sell and move on. I am sure I can locate a little old lady that didn't like your condo either when it was built.

It reminds of when I was a city panner here in Florida. A Wal-mart Super Center was being built and the neighbors formed a group to try and stop it. It didn't work and the store was built. The week it opened I saw several of the protestors shopping there. Go figure.

Here is the problem: there is already a condo community on the east side of Hefner Parkway, and it's the place I call "home." Nantucket Condos have been in that area for the past 20 years, right next to the ball fields. They may not be high-rise, but those located on the west side of the community (like mine) offer residents a gorgeous view of the lake- sunsets, sailboats, etc. Some may try to argue that the restaurants already detract from my view, but I honestly do not mind them- they are closer to the shore, and they are no more than a couple of stories tall. Development of a high-rise building would take away one of my favorite things about my home and give it to someone else...in my opinion, it's like "Robin Hood" where Prince John takes from the poor to give to the rich. You know any high-rise real estate will be geared toward the upper class. I am a single, twenty-something woman purchasing my first home on my own. My condo in Nantucket has enabled me to purchase a newer piece of real estate in a safe area of the city at a price I can afford. It absolutely sickens me to think that someone wants to take this away from me. I've worked hard to get where I am, and am proud to own real estate at my age- real estate with a great view, at that. Some might say I should move into the new development if I want the view, but I would never do that for several reasons. For one, my condo feels more like a house the way it is laid out, whereas the artist's rendering of the high-rise condos looks more like an apartment or hotel. Second, I wouldn't be able to afford it, and even if I could afford it, I shouldn't have to move to keep something I already have. It's outrageous. A high-rise building not only affects me, but my neighbors as well. Property values would most likely decrease for all of the units on the west side. Also, the building would cast a large shadow (literally and figuratively) over the complex, affecting the ability of our landscaping to thrive, and also blocking our units from essential sunlight. Traffic on eastbound Britton from the parkway would be an absolute mess since the condos would be right off the exit...it's bad enough a few months out of the year for baseball season. As for the plan to relocate the baseball fields...the place where they are talking about building new fields isn't exactly the most convenient location- the south side of the lake is not easy to access from the highway. I just don't agree with what they are trying to do and hope they realize the negative effects it would have on so many people.

MEJ.....

Welcome to OKCTalk! I can tell by your first few posts you will be a valuable member here. I hope you stay and participate as often as possible.

I think you make an excellent point in your post about your view being taken away from you and lowering of your property value. Well said. And again - welcome!

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I think with this new development built, your property values will go UP. Sure, your view of the lake may be taken away, but due to being right next to what becomes of that area -- you will benefit, rather than have your property value go down.

Kerry - Actually, in Oklahoma City, a place with a good view is hard to come by, so I feel quite fortunate that I have had the opportunity to live in one. I understand your point, but my condos are only a couple of stories high, and they are next to a shopping center and another condo community, so I can hardly imagine there being a huge uproar when they were built...but I could be wrong. And this is a little different than a Wal-Mart because it's a residential complex and patronizing it would mean me actually moving into one; as I said in a previous post, I would never move into one of these because of what they would have taken away from me, and I simply would not be able to afford it.

I hate the fact that it will shadow so much over our community. I work in a cubicle with no sunlight all day, and would hate to come home at 5:00 to see the sun has already "set" by mid-afternoon in our community...it's depressing. One of my favorite things is to sit in the sun; since I work in the day, the evening is the only time I get to. Not to mention the effects it would have on our landscaping- certain flowers need sun to thrive.

Hehe...I guess one good thing could come from this- it would block the highway noise. It doesn't bother me because I'm used to it having lived near Hefner Parkway my entire life, but I wonder if the high-rise residents would be able to stand it.

Actually the project includes retail and restaurants, so you could patronize it.

I wouldn't, though. I've never been one to waive my principles.

Does anybody know what was decided on this? Are they building the condos?

I thought I heard it was a GO.

Any news on this??

While it would be inappropriate for me to give any details, I would encourage you to pay attention to next week's City Council meeting when the new Hefner Master Plan will be presented.

At this time, the hi-rise as proposed is not being recommended. That does not mean, however, that it couldn't resurface at some other time.

I also spent many years as a homeowner at Nantucket and was saddened when I first heard about this development and what it might do to the residents of Nantucket, especially those who might want to buy into that very neighborly and safe community.

Please. We are talking about vacant land located behind a very busy freeway. Not a quaint, neighborly residential street.

I saw a presentation of the current draft of the Lake Hefner Master Plan today by John Dugan, OKC Planning Director and the only area designated for further commercial development is a very small parcel adjacent to Northwest Expressway that is presently zoned commercial. No other commercial development is recommended. Personally, I liked what I saw. Maintaining good water quality, improving recreational uses and safety for users were deemed the major issues and the plan reflects those priorities. I hope it is adopted pretty much as it is.

Not to mention, they aren't building "the projects" either. It would be an upscale highrise.

The project in question no way effects the lake. Just the view from the Nantucket condos. I say build it!

How does a high rise affect Nantucket as far as being a safe and neighborly community??

The 10 story condo tower would also be a safe and neighborly community. We aren't talking about a 10 project housing community, it would be quiet expensive to live in a 10 story condo overlooking Lake Hefner.

That location would be perfect for such a condo project, and it would finally give Okc a new high rise condo, although I would rather see a 20 story condo tower.

The condos that back up to the baseball fields in Nantucket actually have a decent view of the lake. I looked at buying one recently. It was a distant view, but not bad. I understand the complaint because those condos would look into a parking lot and the back of a huge building, instead of baseball fields and the lake, but it would probably block out the traffic noise from Hefner Parkway.

Off the topic: I was actually about to make an offer on the condo, but I checked the family watchdog site and there is a registered sex offender living in there. I guess that may sound silly to some people, but it was a deal breaker for me.

From a waterfront perspective, I don't think a building across the freeway would have any impact. I understand the desire to keep Lake Hefner park-like, but how many people gaze to the east when they're at the lake? The only view right now is highway, which is no improvement on a highrise. The ballparks are singularly unattractive, with their open field parking. If it were properly landscaped and architecturally attractive, it would be an improvement to all but the Nantucket dwellers. They probably have the best argument for not building a multi-story building there.

So why should we not build this just because these Nantucket people are NIMBY's, quite literally?

I would encourage you to pay attention to next week's City Council meeting when the new Hefner Master Plan will be presented.



Too bad the master plan couldn't be to let people swim in Hefner...

I have always thought that a good location for a condo tower would be off of NW Expressway just west of the TGI Fridays. I don't think that it is part of the Hefner park and it would be a great view overlooking the lake.

Either way I can't see why the Nantucket people have any complaints about a condo tower blocking a view that they barely have anyway.

So why should we not build this just because these Nantucket people are NIMBY's, quite literally?

It would be fair, I think, to compensate them for any loss of value to their property as a result of the loss of this view. A good view can be a significant part of the value of a home.

I'm not sure what the law allows there, and I'm not going to do the research to find out.

Doesn't that set up a scary precedent?

Every time something is built that some NIMBY doesn't like and thinks hurts their property value, they can demand compensation??

Come on.

The project in question no way effects the lake. Just the view from the Nantucket condos. I say build it!

Condos opposing other condos. Gimme a break. This is the most ridiculous form of NIMBYism that there has ever been.

Did you hear about that forest that got mad when more trees grew and blocked their view of the lake?

You're right jbrown.. I was just remember a bit and a piece from a property class I had a year ago. A servitude of view can be established, but it requires some actual intention. I should have paid more attention in class :)

First of all I am quite sure that the 10 story condo project would be a very high end upscale condo units. If anything it could raise the value of the Nantucket with comps per square foot.

Second, how much view of the lake can the Nantucket really have. I believe that they are only 2 story condos and they sit below the highway level. Unless the people are getting on top of the condo I don't see the problem.

Jbrown has this deal gone through council?