View Full Version : Malls updating for the 21st century



Patrick
10-26-2004, 02:14 AM
Sure, malls are slowly becoming a thing of the past, but those that want to remain healthy in this day and age are having to make some changes. This was a pretty interesting article I read today. Sounds like Heritage Park and Crossroads both need to brighten things up a little if they expect to remain vibrant. They both need to say goodbye to the dark flooring and drab appearance, and brighten up the floors, update the railings, and improve the overall shopping experience. Of course, there's a better chance of this happening with Crossroads
than Heritage Park. Heritage Park is currently for sale, and has beenf or sometime, so I doubt Simon Property group is interested in improving the mall.
Crossroads does have potential though, and Macerich property group could do more to help themselves, instead of blaming it in off the wall problems. First they blamed Crossroads' problems to I-35 construction. Now they're blaming them on a lack of an anchor. Until they completely renovate the mall like Quail Springs and Penn Square did, they can forget about competiting in today's competitive mall market.

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Marketing the mall: Metro malls change with the times, and the customer, to survive
Posted: Monday, October 25, 2004
Marketing the mall: Metro malls change with the times, and the customer, to survive

By Ja’Rena Smith
jsmith@okcbusiness.com

Long gone are the days of dark brown tile, sleepy lounge music and massive greenery that once ruled the atmosphere of American malls. From the earth-tone decor of the early Seventies and Eighties to the sunny atriums of the Nineties, malls everywhere are jumping on the makeover bandwagon as they strive to meet customer wants.

Lynn Palmerton, general manager for Sooner Mall in Norman, said that although the decor of malls once reflected the design of the times in which they were created, most of the mega centers are coming into the 21st century.

“Now the trend is for a much lighter and brighter atmosphere,” Palmerton said. “You’ll see with the newer malls around the country that they are incorporating lighter color schemes. This is a real transformation.”

But the new face of malls does not come with a paintbrush alone.

John Bucksbaum, CEO for General Growth Properties, said the degree of competition among malls has increased the importance of better facilities and amenities.

“A great deal of malls did not have anything done to them between 1970 and 1990,” Bucksbaum said. “Good owners have come to the understanding that you must keep the mall interesting.”

General Growth Properties is a real estate investment company that manages more than 170 regional malls, including Sooner Mall and Quail Springs Mall.

Bucksbaum said the biggest change malls have made is the emphasis on the quality of services, and with this emphasis comes renovations.

Bucksbaum said that General Growth spent nearly $300 million on renovations in the last year. He said renovations are critical in order to keep malls vibrant for consumers and retailers.

“If you don’t have what the customers want, then you are not going go be successful,” he said.

Through exit surveys and open communication with consumers, many mall managers are finding that what people want is entertainment.

“The entertainment aspect is a big part of what’s happening at malls right now,” Palmerton said. “A lot of people like to use the term ‘shoppertainment.’”

From carousels to ice skating rinks to movie theaters, the lengths to which malls are going to keep customers entertained seems never-ending.

“We really want to provide the shopper in the community with the total experience,” said Stacey Aldridge, senior marketing manager for Quail Springs Mall.

In 1998, Quail Springs added a 24-screen movie theater. The same year, the mall also renovated the food court, more than doubling its seating capacity.

Entertainment is not the only change on malls’ radar screens. Before many consumers attempt to find entertainment, many look for what they expect to find in their own homes -- comfort.

“If people are spending a whole day shopping, they would like a comfortable place to sit,” Aldridge said.

Hence the creation of the padded-seat areas. Known as “Comfort Zones” at Sooner Mall, these areas provide a place for customers to take a break from their shopping without having to leave the mall.

Jeannette Smith, director of mall marketing at Penn Square Mall, said the idea of a resting area was unheard of in the early days of malls.

“When malls first opened, there would not be a bench in sight,” Smith said. “The idea was to keep people moving, but we are now realizing that customers need a break.”

Even services such as restrooms have changed, as most malls have added “family” restrooms and made the facilities more visible.

“The amenities are a big change, first and foremost with the restrooms,” Palmerton said. “In the past, restrooms were hidden down a corridor or behind stores. You kind of had to walk down a long corridor to find them.

“Now they’re much more family oriented.”

But amenities and entertainment alone cannot predict the success of a mall, as was the case with Crossroads Mall.

Christi Parks, senior marketing manager for Crossroads, said the shopping center had its largest challenge in March 2001 with the loss of the Montgomery Ward.

“Malls ride the wave with the success of department stores, and with the failure of a department store, like Montgomery Ward, it can be very hurtful,” Parks said.

Crossroads’ Montgomery Ward was once the strongest Ward in the state, but when the company went bankrupt in December 2000, the chain weakened and left the metro market.

The area that Montgomery Ward occupied in Crossroads has remained vacant since its departure. Parks said the absence of an anchor retail store has decreased the amount of traffic in that area of the mall.

Parks said that although the loss has created a downside, Crossroads expects to see happier times, especially since they have plans in the works for a new department store.

“We are a shopping tradition,” Parks said. “The perception of Crossroads has struggled, something we have struggled to overcome, but we are not going anywhere.”

Although Parks would not say what retailer would be coming to Crossroads, she did say the store would be new to the Oklahoma market, an aspect that is important to many malls.

Penn Square’s Smith said her mall’s strategy has always been to stay on the forefront of the city by bringing in merchants who are new to the area.

One of the biggest ways malls are staying on the forefront is by tapping into the teen market. General Growth Properties named teens as the second most important market, after the 25 to 45-year-old woman.

The prevalence of Abercrombie & Fitch and Gap stores is evidence that retailers and mall managers have taken notice of the new, younger face of shoppers.

“We, as a company, have always been very supportive of teens,” Bucksbaum said. “They have tremendous buying power and become the future buyers.”

Luke
10-26-2004, 05:25 AM
Crossroads Mall management may not realize what they have. If only they spruced it up a bit, it could be one of the premier malls in OKC. Until then, it's the ghetto mall.

mranderson
10-26-2004, 08:37 AM
The only thing Crossroads missing is the "Gansta Rap." They have the gang members.

Seriously. Yes. They do need a total renovation. They should all but close the mall and totally remodel the inside from top to bottom. Granted, they installed an elevator and a carosel. However, they look just like these houses that the owners just slapped on three walls on back and called it an addition or tossed a bunch of bricks in place of the garage door and called it a room. You cal still see how outdated the place is.

Do I like Crossroads? Not really. I did. Now it is outdated and unsafe. I just wonder how long it will be before the ak47's start blasting in the center court. Then maybe the owners will get the message... Probably not. Reasons. They could care less, it is a tax loss. Plus, no national coverage of the gang war.

Patrick
10-27-2004, 02:12 AM
The mall management needs to take a trip through Woodland Hills Mall in Tulsa. It's layed out very similar to Crossroads, but a complete renovation a few years back realy made a difference. Crossroads could look just like Woodland Hills. The dark and drab warehouse-look needs to be replaced with a brighter, more inviting look. Tiling the glazed concrete floors would be a good start. Covering the warehouse-like ceiling and installing more skylights would be a good move. Replacing old railing with new glass railing would help. Installing excalators at each end would at least bring the mall into the 20th century! lol!

Luke
10-27-2004, 05:35 AM
Patrick,

Have you spoken with mall management? What do they say to the idea of a multi-million dollar updating and renovation?

Luke

Patrick
10-28-2004, 01:34 PM
I've spoken with Christi over at Crossroads twice. I don't get over there very often, so I don't really know the mall management over there like I know Bob Landdec and Jeanette Smith at Penn. But, last time I talked to her and told her what the mall needed, she kind of blew me off and blamed the status of the mall on recent construction on I-35 and the lack of an anchor to replace Wards. I tried to explain to her that finding a new anchor would be much easier if the mall had some visual appeal, but she just didn't seem to get it. She went off and started bragging about the recent improvements they made to center court. Granted, the improvements to center court are a start, but they're only the tip of the iceberg of what really needs to be done at the mall.

Just FYI: Urban Property Inc. spent $10 million on the recent renovation of Penn Square Mall. The fountain in center court alone cost $400,000. Simon Property Group, current owner of Penn Square, is currently spending well over $1 million to replace all 36 AC/Heating units that are about 15 years old. After that they'll tackle replacing the entire roof......that's estimating at about $2-3 mill.

So, basically, what am I trying to say? Well, I'm not quite sure where Macerich Property group is spending their money at Crossroads, but it definitely isn't on the appearance of the mall. While other malls are spending millions on upgrades, the owners of Crossroads continue to fall behind in the OKC market.

mranderson
10-28-2004, 01:47 PM
I know a lot of companies keep some non profitable properties, locations or other interests for capitol loss. It off sets the capitol gains and sometimes is so large, it can actually eliminate their taxes, showing zero earnings or even loss of earnings.

The common, non business community calls this a "tax write off."

I know every major city has at least one dump mall. Last time I checked, the Dallas area it was Richardson Square Mall. Other types of companies have similar situations. Even a lot of rental property owners have dumps they can count as a capitol loss. The loser is the tenant. They are treated like dirt, given low end appliances and other neccesities, and the home is usually not well maintained. In directly, Crossroads is that property.

The owners may be using it for their capitol loss. Of course, it could also be (this is redundant) they could care less. Or other reasons including not realizing what they are doing to the economy of South Oklahoma City. Christi Parks has been at Crossroads for many years. I think over 20. She should know what is going on and realize the negitave impact their lack of renovation and promotion is doing.

Of course, she could also have been brainwashed by being ordered to say what she did. Either way, we lose. Crappy mall, crappy management, crappy ownership, and thiose gangsters that line the mall like roaches.

floater
10-28-2004, 08:56 PM
Spokespeople like Christi Parks aren't paid to express their views. They're paid to spin and promote. Cynicism aside, I don't know why Macerich isn't doing more.

We may be seeing the end of indoor mall age in OKC, making way for the outdoor lifestyle centers. Penn Square Mall is different; many of their tenants have outdoor stores. It's just that we haven't offered the right development to locate them outside. Until this Flatiron Town Center comes around, Penn Square will remain the region's premier shopping destination. That's not a bad thing; at least we have one.

Patrick
10-28-2004, 10:28 PM
Hmmmmm.....I bet Simon Property Group wishes now that Urban Property Inc. would've left Penn Square as an open air shopping center! For those of you that may not know, Penn Square back in the day was sort of like Utica Square in Tulsa.....an open air shopping area. I guess the only thing in the city that even begins to come close is Brixton Square, but that's not a really good example.

USG'86
02-05-2005, 01:17 AM
I think it may be a bit unfair to compare Crossroads with Woodland Hills with respect to investing in improvements. Woodland Hills is unique in that it is the largest mall in Oklahoma. Additionally, It has no comperably-sized competition in Tulsa. The decision to invest in a mall makeover for Woodland Hills was likely an easy one. Eastland Mall would be a better comparison to Crossroads. Eastland is newer (technically older, but that's another story), but geographically and socio-economically speaking, very similar. Remember, Location, Location, Location.

The financial health of the surrounding neighborhood cannot be overlooked when evaluating the potential of Crossroads or Eastland. Eastland is currently in much worse shape than Crossroads, but is owned by Simon. Obviously, if Simon can see enough potential in Penn Square to invest multi-millions on infrastructure repairs, but lets the centerpiece fountain at Eastland go dry, we might learn a little about their priorities. It's not like Simon can't afford to keep the fountain running! They have all but given up on Eastland. They can certainly afford to bring the mall into the 21st century, but they are aware that that would be a waste of resources in a property with a near 50% vacancy.

Granted, Crossroads isn't that bad yet, but the comparison is still fairly accurate. It's in a poor location that's getting worse by the day. I don't see the outlook getting much better for Crossroads. It's at a point right now that a major, major renovation could tip the scales in its favor. However, it would be a very risky investment because it could be for naught. Eastland opened in the mid 80s. The party only lasted about 15 years. 20 years later and it's a virtual ghost town. It's next step in the evolutionary process will either be a business park (like Shepherd Mall), a Flea Market (like Festival Mall in Arlington, TX), or bulldozed and redeveloped (like Prestonwood Mall in Dallas). It'll be a while before Crossroads gets to that point, but it seems once they get to a certain point and management gives up, it's a slippery slope to the end. I give Crossroads another 10 unless something drastic happens to the community, not the mall itself.

Patrick
02-05-2005, 01:30 AM
First off, USG'86, welcome to OKC Talk, we're glad to have you!

I agree with you fully. Business smarts say that the corporation is going to invest in areas where they'll get a good return. Unfortunately, as you mention, investing millions in Eastland Mall or Crossroads Mall, probably wouldn't give a good return, but investing millions in Penn Square and Woodland Hills has resulted in huge returns from high end national retailers paying high rents at those malls.

Crossroads Mall is on the edge. It still has 4 anchors and can be saved if Macerich acts quickly. Unfortunately, malls like Eastland and Heritage Park are long gone with huge vacancy rates.

I know many of us are sad to see malls slide into history, but fortunately, most are being put to other uses, as you mentioned with Shepherd Mall. Shepherd Mall has been useful in attracting two major call centers to the metro, Farmers and AOL. So, it's just useful to the metro in another area.

I appreciate your informative and extremely detailed post!

Jay
02-05-2005, 01:52 AM
Chances are Eastland Mall is up for sale. Simon just recently sold Heritage Park Mall in Midwest City to private developers. If you have ever been in Heritage Park you will know its like stepping back into the 80's. The mall is dark with cobblestone floors and many vacancies.

I would not be suprised if Crossroads is for sale. Quail Springs and Penn Square have both been through several makeovers over the past few years. Crossroads has only been through two makeovers over the last decade. The latest makeover at Crossroads was a joke. They completely missed the boat on what customers wanted. They tore out the old ramp and removed the fountain. They added a playground, a carousel and a glass elevator. Then put down tacky grey retail grade carpet to cover the remaining space. You almost get the impression they spent too much money on the elevator and skimped on the rest.

I think its only a matter of time before Foley's or Dillards decides that its just not feasible to stay open at Crossroads. Who ever goes first you can guarantee the other will follow. JcPenney will probably tuff it out until the end. Just like they did at Shepard Mall.

At this point and time the only thing that will save Crossroads is Urban Renewal.

USG'86
02-05-2005, 02:18 AM
Thanks, Patrick.

You know, while reading your reply I had a rather disturbing epiffany. I suspect Crossroad's biggest competition right now is the Super Wal-Mart.

The only reason I go out there now is for Best Buy, and that doesn't even get me inside the mall. About my only excuse for going inside is to reminisce about the old days, or if Dillards & Foley's is having a big sale. If management could entice Best Buy to move inside, that could tip the scales for the mall just enough.

Another anchor that would be great in Crossroads would be Steve & Barry's University Sportswear. They're typically a single-story anchor store, but that'd be better than an empty Wards. They're a sort of like an Old Navy, but not quite as trendy. Interesting but very inexpensive clothing. It would be very unique to Oklahoma.

Goin' to bed now.

USG'86
02-05-2005, 02:25 AM
Okay, well that was weird. I just read on the southside update thread that Steve & Barry's has just moved into Crossroads. I think it's a perfect fit. People may grow a bit weary of the quality of the clothing, but so far that hasn't slowed down Old Navy much.

I tend to agree with oklacity75's dire assessment of Crossroads. However, I don't think we should be writing it's obit just yet.

Luke
02-05-2005, 08:42 AM
THe more I think about it, the more I think mall management at Crossroads doesn't want to be upscale. Their market is the slightly-above-wal-mart quality stuff. And the last time I was there it was packed... with, let's say, a different breed of cat than you might find at Penn Square.

Think about this, though. Just like those who frequent Penn Square may feel slightly uncomfortable going to Crossroads, I'll bet that those who visit Crossroads frequently don't feel very comfortable at Penn Square.

Different strokes for different folks. And I think Crossroads is right up a lot of folks alley.

mranderson
02-05-2005, 08:45 AM
Crossroads should be a blend of upscale and medium scale shops. make it out of the price range for the gang bangers... Wait... Their price range is shoplifting. Crossroads can survive with a major renovation and better shops. Not low end shops like dollar stores. Leave those for the strip centers.

Patrick
02-08-2005, 12:45 AM
I agree....Crossroads could move a little more upscale than they are now, simply by renovating the mall to bring it into the 21st Century, and by adding more national retailers.

Quail Springs doesn't really have any upscale stores...it has a good mix of mid to low scale stores. They don't have upscale stores like Pottery Barn, Williams Sonoma, Banana Republic, J. Jill, J. Crew, etc. But, they have national retailers like New York and Company and Express. They seem to cater mostly to families. Crossroads could do the same.

I find it quite weird when everytime I go to Crossroads, I walk by Christopher and Banks, an upscale clothing store, and I always comment on how out of place that store looks at Crossroads. Why? It's all image. Crossroads could help the problem out by renovating the mall.

You know, the probably have the second nicest Dillards in the city. It's a 3 level Dillards....not too shabby! The only 3 level Dillards in the city. The mall has some great things going for it, mall management just needs to do more to capitalize on it.

Thunder
07-13-2008, 08:27 PM
Do anyone know the reason why they pulled out the fountain? Wasn't that some kinda icon for Crossroads?

The deaf community never picked Crossroads for the city's monthly Silent Dinner. Guess who the winner? Penn Square. Why? Because the managements did it right with the food court being together.

For Tulsa, the city's Silent Dinner is at Woodland Hills. Why? Same glorious reason as Penn Square.

It would be tough to give Crossroads a total reconstructions throughout the mall, but the best that I can see that all the resturants and food place be moved to the center area surrounding the carosel and playground. They should move the carosel to the other side of the elevator, take out the entire playground, and set up tables and chairs along side with a new fountain.

As for the playground, just take up a vacant space big enough for a new playground with the actual better stuff for the kids. The mall can charge parents for dropping their kids off there while they shop. Yeah, parents and children would have to wear paper wrist with matching vertification code or computerized photograph taken during dropoff to confirm ownership.

As stated by someone else, replace the rails with glass similar to Penn Square, put in modern tiles, more skylights and plants.

Isn't the rent/lease one of the major factor for businesses to leave Crossroads? The management needs to be smart by lowering the prices on spaces and that will attract businesses. The more businesses come, the more customers visit, and the more money is spent. For example (just a number example), it is better to charge $50 a space and have 25 tenets than $100 a space and have 10 tenets.

okcustu
07-13-2008, 08:44 PM
Hmmmmm.....I bet Simon Property Group wishes now that Urban Property Inc. would've left Penn Square as an open air shopping center! For those of you that may not know, Penn Square back in the day was sort of like Utica Square in Tulsa.....an open air shopping area. I guess the only thing in the city that even begins to come close is Brixton Square, but that's not a really good example.

its nice in all to have an open air shoppping center but look at Dallas both Nortpark and Galleria are enclosed as is Houston's Galleria and doubt the Flatiron town center will be as large as Penn

MonkeesFan
07-13-2008, 08:47 PM
Do anyone know the reason why they pulled out the fountain? Wasn't that some kinda icon for Crossroads?

The deaf community never picked Crossroads for the city's monthly Silent Dinner. Guess who the winner? Penn Square. Why? Because the managements did it right with the food court being together.

For Tulsa, the city's Silent Dinner is at Woodland Hills. Why? Same glorious reason as Penn Square.

It would be tough to give Crossroads a total reconstructions throughout the mall, but the best that I can see that all the resturants and food place be moved to the center area surrounding the carosel and playground. They should move the carosel to the other side of the elevator, take out the entire playground, and set up tables and chairs along side with a new fountain.

As for the playground, just take up a vacant space big enough for a new playground with the actual better stuff for the kids. The mall can charge parents for dropping their kids off there while they shop. Yeah, parents and children would have to wear paper wrist with matching vertification code or computerized photograph taken during dropoff to confirm ownership.

As stated by someone else, replace the rails with glass similar to Penn Square, put in modern tiles, more skylights and plants.

Isn't the rent/lease one of the major factor for businesses to leave Crossroads? The management needs to be smart by lowering the prices on spaces and that will attract businesses. The more businesses come, the more customers visit, and the more money is spent. For example (just a number example), it is better to charge $50 a space and have 25 tenets than $100 a space and have 10 tenets.


Are you deaf because I am deaf myself. I been to the deaf community at Penn Square Mall years ago, do they still do the silent dinner currently?

Thunder
07-13-2008, 11:06 PM
You could say that I'm deaf. Ask Karried. lol

The deaf community, just about the whole thousands of them, know me as Thunder.

Yeah, they still have silent dinners at Penn Square and SLRS host them.

TSHA host the one at Woodland Hills in Tulsa.

There are other silent dinners for smaller towns and other social gatherings, such as deaf coffee chat, which Starbucks is the winner. lol

How you manage to not be around the deaf people for years?

MonkeesFan
07-13-2008, 11:25 PM
You could say that I'm deaf. Ask Karried. lol

The deaf community, just about the whole thousands of them, know me as Thunder.

Yeah, they still have silent dinners at Penn Square and SLRS host them.

TSHA host the one at Woodland Hills in Tulsa.

There are other silent dinners for smaller towns and other social gatherings, such as deaf coffee chat, which Starbucks is the winner. lol

How you manage to not be around the deaf people for years?

Because they spread bad rumors about me, that's why

Thunder
07-13-2008, 11:48 PM
Bad rumors? We all get bad rumors! LOL Hell, some spread bad rumors of me, but overall they know I'm a nice guy. I've given to the community from time to time when I can. I would even give the OKC deaf club a brand new building with all the bells and whistles if I ever do win the lottery. lol

If you wanna talk, you can reach me on YIM or AIM >>> ThunderOKC

MonkeesFan
07-13-2008, 11:54 PM
Bad rumors? We all get bad rumors! LOL Hell, some spread bad rumors of me, but overall they know I'm a nice guy. I've given to the community from time to time when I can. I would even give the OKC deaf club a brand new building with all the bells and whistles if I ever do win the lottery. lol

If you wanna talk, you can reach me on YIM or AIM >>> ThunderOKC

Cool dude, you can YIM or AIM >>>>Spacehog80 although I am not online now, I'm at boring work, who knows though, we might have met before....

Thunder
07-13-2008, 11:55 PM
Know of any alien looking guy from Del City? lol

MonkeesFan
07-14-2008, 12:13 AM
Know of any alien looking guy from Del City? lol

Haha, no unless I met you in Norman or Oklahoma City

Thunder
07-14-2008, 01:34 AM
It's easy. One eye, three legs, two antennas. You wanna know how many arms? lol

MonkeesFan
07-14-2008, 02:40 AM
It's easy. One eye, three legs, two antennas. You wanna know how many arms? lol

8?

Thunder
07-14-2008, 09:18 AM
4 lol

MonkeesFan
07-14-2008, 01:49 PM
4 lol

Haha

thanksarthur
07-14-2008, 09:58 PM
Hmmmmm.....I bet Simon Property Group wishes now that Urban Property Inc. would've left Penn Square as an open air shopping center! For those of you that may not know, Penn Square back in the day was sort of like Utica Square in Tulsa.....an open air shopping area. I guess the only thing in the city that even begins to come close is Brixton Square, but that's not a really good example.

Nichols Hills Plaza is a lot closer, in fact almost identical to Utica Square and very similar to Highland Park Village in Dallas. As for Crossroads, upscale is not the way to go. While I know people are going to argue the whole 73170 zip thing it just doesn't add up. First of all 73116 is by far a wealthier zip code. It has higher home values, higher average incomes (NH is $125k), more homes over $1m, and the highest education of any other zip code. That is why it makes sense for Penn Square to have a Williams-Sonoma and Mr. Ooley's and the Coach store. People can afford to buy it. With Crossroads it's simply not the case. It is just slightly above Wal-Mart quality, maybe almost to Target level but no more. And that's what works. People who have higher disposable incomes just don't live down there or shop there.

okcustu
07-14-2008, 10:39 PM
no its not by plaza is all locally owned boutiques and is slightly more upscale than most of Utica but miles below highland park they have polo and Hermes and etc

jbrown84
07-15-2008, 02:07 AM
They should move the carosel to the other side of the elevator, take out the entire playground, and set up tables and chairs along side with a new fountain.

As stated by someone else, replace the rails with glass similar to Penn Square, put in modern tiles, more skylights and plants.

You're racking up quite a bill. Not going to happen.

mmonroe
07-15-2008, 07:47 AM
it is better to charge $50 a space and have 25 tenets than $100 a space and have 10 tenets.

A whopping $250 difference.

Thunder
07-15-2008, 03:46 PM
A whopping $250 difference.

Can you read that the numbers were example only?

jbrown84
07-15-2008, 03:50 PM
They can only drop the rent so much. I highly doubt they are charging anything more than just what they can get away with. This isn't a Bricktown situation.

soonerborn1958
08-05-2008, 06:16 AM
Nichols Hills Plaza is a lot closer, in fact almost identical to Utica Square and very similar to Highland Park Village in Dallas. As for Crossroads, upscale is not the way to go. While I know people are going to argue the whole 73170 zip thing it just doesn't add up. First of all 73116 is by far a wealthier zip code. It has higher home values, higher average incomes (NH is $125k), more homes over $1m, and the highest education of any other zip code. That is why it makes sense for Penn Square to have a Williams-Sonoma and Mr. Ooley's and the Coach store. People can afford to buy it. With Crossroads it's simply not the case. It is just slightly above Wal-Mart quality, maybe almost to Target level but no more. And that's what works. People who have higher disposable incomes just don't live down there or shop there.
I don't envision NHP ever becoming a Highland Park Village. FENDI and HERMES retail stores in OKC?? We shall see...

sethsrott
08-05-2008, 11:38 AM
I don't envision NHP ever becoming a Highland Park Village. FENDI and HERMES retail stores in OKC?? We shall see...

OMG! Are you insinuating that we might get those? Is this an inside source or just speculation??? I MUST know!!

jbrown84
08-05-2008, 11:42 AM
I think he's saying it's highly unlikely.

okcustu
08-10-2008, 08:13 AM
We have tohold our horses we don't even have very many mid level stores Polo Steve madden lacoste the sharper image in the macys wing is vacant as is the Limited's temporary store by Penny's

jbrown84
08-10-2008, 01:00 PM
Yes there are several empty spaces in Penn Square. Fmr. Sharper Image, fmr. Gadzooks, and the fmr. temporary Limited on the lower level by Penney's. Last I heard, according to Patrick, there was a long waiting list of tenants for Penn.

Patrick
08-10-2008, 05:01 PM
Yup, long waiting list. But, just takes the right space for the right tenants, and it takes time to actually get those potential tenants to sign the dotted line. There really are fewer empty spaces at Penn than most other malls across the country, and most of the empty spaces at Penn already have tenants in the works. That being said, mall owners like to keep a few spaces for temporary tenants, for when other tenants relocate (like with The Limited)....so you'll always see some empty spots in transition.

That being said, the mall manager at Penn told me that they'd love to have Forever 21 in their mall, and Forever 21 would love space at Penn Square, but they "simply don't have the space that Forever 21 demands" right now. So Forever 21 will be on the waiting list for awhile for Penn. See, that's how it works in leasing retail space in malls. Quail Springs has more open space throughout their mall right now, so they had the space to offer what Forever 21 was needing. Most Forever 21's require a large space. As the mall manager at Penn told me, "they wish they weren't land locked and had more space to lease."

Penn Square Mall is the healthiest mall in the state. They have the highest sales per square foot of any mall in the state, on par with even some of the more upscale malls across the nation......about the same as The Galleria in Houston.

Luke
08-10-2008, 08:26 PM
I noticed Williams Sonama was expanding. Found out that there used to be a Disney Store in that spot at Penn Square. I'm a Disney fan and have to go to Quail Springs to get my fix. (That sounds pathetic, I know).

Disney recently repurchased their Disney Stores (from the people who own Children's Place) and then shut down hundreds of them. Thankfully, it appears the Quail Springs Disney Store has been spared and will live.

That said, I doubt Disney is looking to expand their stores after shuttering that many. One can wish Penn Square will get one though. :)

Rover
08-10-2008, 08:59 PM
The new center North of Quail Springs is to be an open air shopping center like the popular new concepts elsewhere. I am seeing these pop up in multiple places in the US. They are more like small downtowns...more urban...more fun than malls.

Patrick
08-11-2008, 03:18 PM
Disney Stores aren't doing well nation-wide. Penn's store was one of the ones cut several years ago. We'll see if the Quail store stays open or not. They're definitely not expanding. They may just keep the Quail store open because it's the only Disney Store in the market area.

Luke
08-11-2008, 03:24 PM
Yeah, apparently since Hoop Retail who owned the Disney Stores sold them back to Disney, Disney decided to close down 98 of the 350 stores. Thats a sizeable chunk to just shut down. So, since Quail made it through the transition, I'm feeling pretty good about it being around in the near term.

I'm wondering what will change at the Disney Store now that Disney proper has the brand back under their wing.

jbrown84
08-11-2008, 03:44 PM
Patrick, any idea why the Penn Square Suncoast was given the boot in favor of "La Mode", a fine supplier of women's uniforms by Dickies...?

okcustu
08-11-2008, 10:46 PM
they sell street walker uniforms at Body Central by Macys

metro
08-12-2008, 08:27 AM
I noticed Williams Sonama was expanding

Great! It's about time we get a decent sized WS

progressiveboy
08-12-2008, 10:43 AM
Yes there are several empty spaces in Penn Square. Fmr. Sharper Image, fmr. Gadzooks, and the fmr. temporary Limited on the lower level by Penney's. Last I heard, according to Patrick, there was a long waiting list of tenants for Penn.

Would love for Penn Square to get Restoration Hardware (Tulsa has had a store for several years. Steve Madden would be nice too. Others coming to mind would be Fossil, Lucky Brand Jeans, True Religion, another trendy store for the young ladies would be Juicy Couture.

jbrown84
08-12-2008, 05:22 PM
Steve Madden must surely be on the waiting list for Penn because they have one in Woodland Hills.

Patrick
08-13-2008, 07:54 PM
Patrick, any idea why the Penn Square Suncoast was given the boot in favor of "La Mode", a fine supplier of women's uniforms by Dickies...?


I'll ask the mall manager. I do know that La Mode is just a temporary tenant though.

jbrown84
08-16-2008, 04:53 PM
Oh okay. Thanks.