Note: This is NOT meant to be a debate thread where we all bash each other's beliefs. I'm simply curious.

Okay, so I know we have a lot of Christians on this board; some of them are Catholics, some Protestants; and then maybe a few undecided people or people like me who are completely non-religious.

I've encountered quite a few people in my life who were very religious, but could never really tell me "why" they were religious, or "why" they believed what they believe. I find that difficult to understand, because if you are going to believe in something, to me it seems you should have a reason.

Why do you believe what you believe? Have you had personal instances that caused you to believe in God? Was it because you were brought up in the church and it's all you know? Or for those who are skeptics, why are you skeptical? I know why I am, but I'm curious about others.

Like I said, I just want to know. I may not be "religious" or a Christian, but religions in general interest me.

I went to church regularly as a kid and remembered doubting many of the more wild stories being told (Ark, Apple, Walking on Water)...I simply think religions were created to give people a meaning for their lives and to explain complex things

With millions of people worshipping different gods I for one just don't know who is indeed right if any are

bandnerd... quid pro quo.

i'll write something if/when i get time later. -M

I'll share my thoughts in due time.

cool... and i would, but the man expects me to work and i expect me to grab some lunch. -M

[QUOTE=bandnerd;71388]Note: This is NOT meant to be a debate thread where we all bash each other's beliefs. I'm simply curious.

Okay, so I know we have a lot of Christians on this board, a few Catholics, and maybe a few undecided people or people like me who are completely non-religious.

I've encountered quite a few people in my life who were very religious, but could never really tell me "why" they were religious, or "why" they believed what they believe. I find that difficult to understand, because if you are going to believe in something, to me it seems you should have a reason.

Hi bandnerd

You have to be careful about talking about religion; it stirs up interesting emotions.

First of all, Catholics are Christians just like Protestants and Orthodox traditions. We have some different beliefs and traditions, but we are all Christians.

To answer why do we believe: It is just a matter of Faith. Maybe it is something that cannot be explained. We believe we are here for a reason and not by some random accident.

My question to you is what do you believe?

To put Catholics as a separate group from Christians (especially as the wife of a Catholic) is beyond me.

Religion for me adds sense of identity as well as what was said before -- a need to explain events and believe in a higher power. Being a Catholic is for me a tradition, one of the few that I feel I must keep as a second generation Filipino-American.

Okay, I wasn't trying to separate anyone here...I meant to say Protestants and Catholics, they ARE different forms of Christianity, after all. Or maybe I should have put a semicolon after Christians and said that some of them were Catholic. It's all semantics. That's not what I'm asking about.

gsan--I am well aware that religion is a tricky topic. Why else would I have put the disclaimer at the top?

I have already stated that I will give my answers in due time. I have not been home for a few hours (it is fall break for teachers and I have a bit of a shopping issue) and I am now on my way out to lunch with my husband. I am also aware that Catholicism is a form of Christianity, being married to a Catholic, and all.

earl's rib palace was great. so, to the question... why?

i'll preface my answer with the fact that i grew up in faith and continue in that same faith... that probably made it easier to believe, i can't deny that. however, i question everything... so i'm not just going with the flow. i have two brothers and neither are particularly faithful, so it's not as if my parents had a stranglehold on my spiritual life.

i enjoy science and logic... so if anything about 'religion' appeals to me it's that. there are so many complex processes that make this universe 'work' that it's hard for me not to believe that there isn't some kind of intelligence behind it all. as human beings, we are more than just the sum of our parts... it's hard for me to believe that everything we think and everything we feel is just some illusion brought about by various nerve impulses and chemical responses.

so... that probably begs the question, why do i believe in the christian god? the history seems to be there. other than the earliest records in the bible, history and scripture appear to agree. there is little historical doubt that jesus existed. furthermore, i find that the lessons taught in the new testament have a certain timelessness in them. while they deal with complex subjects, they are just as helpful today as they were nearly 2000 years ago. scripture was written over the course of many years by several different authors, yet it does not contradict itself. numerous manuscripts exist with little variation... so its hard for me to believe that scripture was later edited in order to force consistency. all of that together is either one great coincidence or something bigger was guiding these authors.

john 1:18 says, 'no one has ever seen god.' so... last, as it is has been mentioned, is faith. -M

mmm...That does sound reasonable

What is your thinking on the millions of folks that are just as passionate about their religions?....Are they just misinformed?

Actually just want to hear from someone that's not so in your face on this issue

easy180,
thanks. as to your question, i hold the view that if one particular way is correct then to do otherwise would be incorrect. i would therefore hold that those individuals, while passionate, are misinformed. in fact, i would go further to say that there are some groups that claim to be christian that i believe to be misinformed. -M

Okay, back from lunch.

I am not a Christian, I do not attend any church. I have not attended church since just before my 18th birthday. I have been twice since, once to a Pentacostal (sp?) church with my sister (her fiance was a member and we were picking him up) and once to a Mass with my husband. I was married in the Catholic church, for my husband, because that is what he wanted, and I knew that it was important for him to have his marriage to me recognized by the church. I know this may seem hypocritical, to not be a Christian and to be married in a church, but our priest thought that it showed I understood a very important part of marriage--compromise--by allowing this opportunity for my future husband.

Religion was never something that was discussed all that much when I was growing up. We attended the local Methodist church when I was very young; but when I was a young girl, about 6, my dad injured his back badly and was house-bound a lot. So we decided to make Sundays "family days" and spent the whole day together. We did this my entire life up until I moved out. I didn't hang out with friends that day, or really go anywhere unless with a family member. I treasure those times that I had with my family, especially my dad, because in light of recent events that have taken him away from me I don't have much left except for those memories.

I attended a local Baptist church for a couple years as a teen. I was kind of an outcast at school, and it was a lame attempt at making friends. It took me some time, but I realized I was always going to be an outcast, even if I attended church with these people. As time wore on, I became more uncomfortable there as people shunned me more and more. I finally decided to stop going after the youth minister told me I was going to hell for believing in evolution and immediately offering me pizza afterwards (it was Wednesday night youth group). I thought that strange.

I do have respect for people who are religious, or spiritual, and are consistent with it. I don't like hypocrites, and that was what I encountered growing up. People who would "pray for your eternal soul" but treated you like dirt the rest of the time. I thought Christianity was supposed to be about compassion, and tolerance, and love...but what I was exposed to was hypocricy, hatred, and intolerance for differences.

As I grew up into an adult, I found that I was pretty good at taking care of myself emotionally. I wasn't quite an atheist, but I was very good at looking inward for my answers to difficult problems. It was an interesting phase for me, and a very educational one. I am still a very introverted person when it comes to finding my answers for life's difficulties, like dealing with my dad's various cancers, my parent's divorce, the loss of friends, etc. I might ask other people for opinions, but ultimately I think on these things and make peace with myself.

I consider myself to be a science-minded person. I know that science is not perfect, and it doesn't have all the answers...yet...and I'm perfectly okay with that. I like life's little mysteries, it's idiosyncracies...I know that mankind has not been here long, and there is so much to learn and do, that it will not all happen in my lifetime, and that's okay, too.

I do not expect people to understand where I'm coming from, as we have all had different lives and experiences. I will make a case for my beliefs, however, when people start pushing their religion down my throat. I understand it is difficult to accept those who are different, but I have come to terms with myself, so I would hope that others would give me that same courtesy.

I appreciate those who have participated in this thread so far, and have kept it civil. I understand that this is a touchy topic to discuss, because there are so many viewpoints. I think it should be possible for us to discuss religion in a civilized manner, and you have proven me right.

I was right! W00t w00t!

easy180,
thanks. as to your question, i hold the view that if one particular way is correct then to do otherwise would be incorrect. i would therefore hold that those individuals, while passionate, are misinformed. in fact, i would go further to say that there are some groups that claim to be christian that i believe to be misinformed. -M

Never mind

gsan--remember, this thread is not for debate. Whatever anyone believes, they believe, and we're not here to debate that. I just wanted to see why others believe the way they do. No reason to get defensive here.

I have seen God work miraculous ways in my life. Through my daily quiet times with God, he has guided my life and spoke to me through his word. I wouldn't be where I'm at today if it wasn't for his direction.

God loved me enough to send his son to die on the cross for me. His own son, murdered for a belief, so that I can have eternal life. I need nothing else.

gsan,
i didn't get a chance to read your original comment... if you have a question about my beliefs, ask it... i promise to give you an honest answer. -M

bandnerd, this is why I have faith in God. If this earth is all there is, I think I would lose it. this is such a sad place now to live in. I want to believe that God has better plans for what I believe he created. I look at it this way. I do not have nothing to lose believing in the "fruits of the holy spirit" which makes the world a better place. If it's all a sham I did not lose out, if God does exist and I dont believe I lose out in a lot of things. My God makes this world liveable in my eyes. I can go on every day believing there is always something better right around the corner. I am far far far from religious, I think religion is a way to justify judging others. Believing has nothing to do with religion. Faith is what it is all about. A personal relationship with the Lord. A conviction in your heart from the Holy Spirit. Show me a very religios person and you can bet behind closed doors they are very legalistic and a hypocrite.I have seen many of the above on this site.

For me, it comes down to what Truth is. Truth in history, Truth in the unseen things like love and relationships, Truth in science, Truth in evidence...

After all, there can be only one Truth, whatever that may be.

gsan,
i didn't get a chance to read your original comment... if you have a question about my beliefs, ask it... i promise to give you an honest answer. -M

mmm-

I actually replied before reading your entire post. My response made no sense once I took a little more time to read the previous posts.

My mistake.

It depends on the religion. If it is something like Penticost or other holy roller type, then nothing appeals to me. If it is someone who harrasses me to try and "convert" me, then nothing.

I have been studying Catholism and find it very interesting. Mostly the tradition, although since Vatican II, it is not like it use to be.

Bandnerd, great topic.

When I was very young, I went to church.. no doubt in my mind that everything I was taught was real.. no questions, no doubts. Even in high school, I had some of my happiest times in Campus Life Christian clubs in school and youth groups.. then I had a science teacher who was adamant about teaching evolution and I started to question my beliefs.. the logical part of my brain just wouldn't shut up.. I wanted to believe... I loved when I believed without question ... it was a peaceful, beautiful feeling to know that someone more powerful has your back so to speak.. but still today, there are some things I can't reconcile..

Since this is not a debate thread, I think I will participate, and give my thoughts on "religion."

First of all, in my opinion, religion is man made. That's why there are so many denominations out there.....Catholic, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, Pentecostal Holiness, Mormon, Jehovah Witness, Church of Christ, Assembly of God, etc........God didn't make religion, man did. God made Christianity, through Christ.

What I find interesting are those people that tell me that they want to be a part of a certain denomination, because that denomination doesn't condemn smoking, drinking, gambling, etc......but that's not what church is all about.

I grew up in a Christian home and was in church all the time. I never did anything else on Sunday's but go to church in the morning and evening. When I was young, I could not imagine others not going to a church on Sunday, but as I grew older, I finally realized that there are many reasons people don't go.

My faith in Christ is very strong, because I have seen God work might miracles in my life and lives of my friends and relatives. Do I have times that I doubt God? Yes. Everyone is human, so at one time or another we doubt God. The times that we doubt God are when we have been the furthest away from Him.

In order to live the Christian life, your life must be Christlike, and you must have faith in God, and believe in Him. That's the only way that I make it through the day.

There is one thing that I can't stand, and that is a hypocrite. Bandnerd pointed out that she came across many of those Christians that were real hypocrites. I agree that there are many out there. We have many in our church, but I don't let them bring me down. I am not going to let a hypocrite get in the way of worshipping God. They have to answer to God when they die, and so do I.

Another thing that appeals to me about Christianity is the fellowship I get to have with fellow believers. I have been a part of my church for over 26 years now, and have become close to many of the members. We are a family. If I have a problem in my life, or I am in need of something, my church family is there to help......mainly because God has commanded us to help each other.

I am not the type to shove Christianity down anybodies throat. I am there to share the love of Christ with others, and that's all I can do. They either accept Christ or reject Him. That's their decision. I will say that many of my unChristian friends (yes, I have many), have come to me on numerous occassions and have asked me to pray for them, or they have a question about God. Again, I don't shove anything down their throat, I just answer their question and share my testimony.

Bandnerd, I am really sorry for your bad experience in a Wednesday night youth service. The youth minister was clearly in the wrong by the way he approached you. For the last 7 years, I have been very involved with the teenagers at church, and there are certain ways and techniques that you use to reach these teens without telling them flat out that they are going to hell. If our youth minister ever heard any of his youth leaders approach a teenager like that, they would no longer be working with the youth.

Right now, I am still working with the youth, as well as being the Sunday School director for our church. It keeps me very busy and I spend many, many, hours at my church preparing and searching for new ideas for Sunday School, and for the youth, but I love what I am doing.

God has blessed me unbelieveably, and I believe it takes a special faith in Christ to really understand how much Christ loves us and how God sent His Son to die on the cross for us.

I have many unchurched friends that I pray for on a daily basis, but I don't hound them. I just show Christ's love through my speech and my actions, and pray that somehow I can eventually reach them for Christ.

Keith, you are the type of person that would make me want to go back to church. That's what it should be about.

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Religion has no appeal to me. Spirituality, on the other hand, is something I attempt to grasp. It may be something closer to 1950s Saturday afternoon sci-fi than anything one would find in a church. I believe in something bigger. That something bigger means beyond labels. Miracles? They have them in all belief systems, from Christianity to Buddhism to atheists who live by science alone. Prayer? What kind of "God" needs a simple human to plead, beg, ask for forgiveness - on and on. I've never understood prayer and I was a churchgoing guy for many years. But I wondered even then, when praying for someone, what it was I was really doing. Is "God" sitting back and waiting for 27 people to ask him to "heal" someone? 47? 123? Was there a magic number? Did getting on a "prayer chain" increase the odds for a miracle? If so, why? Was it all like a contest to win favor and health? The power of the mob? Why were we having to ask anyway? "He" knew! At some point, for me, it became a rather silly ritual. However, looking into the night sky and seeing the stars and knowing that all those stars is a sun like our own, with a solar system of its own, with planets and moons. When I look at that, I know I am part of something bigger. Something that would blow our minds away. Beyond understanding.

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Well religion is hard for all of us to understand clearly, but it can be comforting to have atleast a minor understanding. I'm lucky that Father Wood at my church is patient enough to let me meet him to ask him quetions...and I can't always remember the answers either, but I do know the answers are there.

Can I call myself a Christian? Yes. With a straight face? Yeah... Do I feel bad about not knowing as much as I should about things like that...that really matter? Of course.

As I said in another thread, True Christianity exemplifies those who are loving, joyful, peaceful, patient, kind, good, gentle, faithful, and who have self control. The hypocrites that loudly wear the "Christian" label and condemn everything and everyone are exactly the type on whom Jesus came down hard. It's a heart thing. If one's heart has changed, one's actions will follow.

It's bothersome that so many have had bad experiences in churches. Honestly, I can't say that I wouldn't have done the same thing if what some of you mention had happened to me in a church environment. The good thing is that no matter who misrepresents Christianity, the Truth is still there for any who seek it.

As I said in another thread, True Christianity exemplifies those who are loving, joyful, peaceful, patient, kind, good, gentle, faithful, and who have self control. The hypocrites that loudly wear the "Christian" label and condemn everything and everyone are exactly the type on whom Jesus came down hard. It's a heart thing. If one's heart has changed, one's actions will follow.

It's bothersome that so many have had bad experiences in churches. Honestly, I can't say that I wouldn't have done the same thing if what some of you mention had happened to me in a church environment. The good thing is that no matter who misrepresents Christianity, the Truth is still there for any who seek it.

But so much of it is geographical. You were born in America, so, you follow the teachings of the New Testament and Christianity - almost by default.

If you were born in India, you most certainly would feel strongly about Hinduism. If you were born in Japan, you would probably be a Buddhist, born in Iran? A Muslim.

Religion and belief by geographical default has always struck me as bewildering. We accept it from the cradle like we accept our language and national identity. But the creator of all that there is knows no national boundaries, which, after all, were only created by centuries and millennia of war and bloodshed.

My concept of God is more of Earth as a giant petri dish, where something bigger watches, learns and is far greater than man-made mythology that its believers more or less inherit from their country of birth.

------------

So that would me thee a deist? Cool...Thomas Jefferson was one.

Again, it comes down to Truth. Much of the Truth of the Bible can be verified historically by extra-Biblical sources. Other Biblical Truths resonate with humanity spiritually. Ultimatly, Christianity is rooted in faith based on evidence. Not faith based on faith like so many say. Christians should always be able to give a reason for the hope that they have with a spirit of gentleness and respect.

The Bible claims that God has given us the light of conscience and the light of creation. No matter the country in which you're born, everybody has conscience and creation that point to a creator. When we respond to this light, more is given.

So, the Bible is the root of all truth? Why not the Koran? They're both books. Both claim to be the ultimate truth. Some of the characters even cross over between them. Was one a rough draft that was accidentally published and spark a whole new religion? ;) Seriously though, it all just seems suspect to me and that's just one example.

I'm more along the lines of what writerranger states. I guess it's an agnostic point of view. There's probably something bigger, but we as a being don't have the capacity to understand it. Much like an amoeba can't grasp Shakespeare. That being said, I really don't have a problem with what others want to believe. One's religion is a deeply personal thing. That's why it irks me when others attempt to force their views on others because they are so strong in their beliefs that they refuse to be respectful of other's.

well said Keith. I think you are one of the few that would state that in a public place. I grew up penticostal holiness, very legalistic in the church, as my uncle was the minister. It was a man pleasing church. I had to leave that church because my convictions from the Holy Spirit was different than the churches was.

If I can't think that there's something bigger out there, something beyond this earth, then my thinking must be pretty shallow.

If I can't think that there's something bigger out there, something beyond this earth, then my thinking must be pretty shallow.

You are dead on with the last 7 words you wrote

You are dead on with the last 7 words you wrote

Easy, this is NOT the Nosebleed section, and such a statement is taken as a personal attack. As I understand it, such personal attacks are not allowed in this forum. You took that statement out of context and used it to attack me.

Also, this thread was not meant for debate.

So, the Bible is the root of all truth? Why not the Koran? They're both books. Both claim to be the ultimate truth. Some of the characters even cross over between them.

Test them. Test them as you would any historical documents. Test the principals that Jesus says.

Truth is that which is in accordance with reality. Test the historicity of Biblical documents using science. Test the spiritual principals that Jesus recommends.

Those seeking for light will find light.

I'm sure that many have tested them, but nothing has been proven. So, again, it comes down to faith, which is more or less just a subjective gamble. Not a bad gamble though. I guess you could take the postion of better safe than sorry. But, it reminds me of a line from a Rowan Atkinson skit where he's the devil, welcoming newcomers to hell. "Okay people, start lining up. Christians over here, yes that's right...it seems the Jews were right after all." ;)

I've been through so many trials in my life, that without God, I'm not sure I'd be here writing this today. Some might say that's using God as a crutch, but I see it more as God leading and directing my life. There have been too many times to count when I've been almost sure I was going to take one path in life, but God directed me another way. I look back on those times now, and realize that if it wasn't for God taking me down the unpopular roads at the time, I would never have been able to see all that God had in store for me.

What is it about religion that appeals to me? Absolutely nothing. Religion is not what it's about. It's about walking daily with the Lord, in a give and take relationship. Knowing that He's there whenever you need Him, and that as long as you walk with Him, He will give you direction in your life, and take you down paths that are far better than you ever could have imagined.

That doesn't mean we should serve God to expect something in return. What it means, is that it's only when you truly surrender your life, giving all of yourself, that you truly experience the fullness of God.

Am I perfect? By no means. But, I try to live a life that's pleasing to God. I'm called to follow Him and try to be more like Him. That's the part that many Christians miss.

What is my purpose in life as a Christian? To follow Christ's example, and serve others. That's exactly why I'm going into the field of medicine, because I want to daily be able to serve those in need. Does that mean I have to wear Christ on my sleeve and cram religion down people's throats? Of course not. That's not the example that Christ gave at all. Christ gave an example of loving others and serving them, regardless of their sin. That's what I intend to do with my life as a physician...serve those in need, by working hard and providing the best medical care for those that are suffering and in need of a healing touch.

The Christian life is not about what you can get. It's about what you can give to others to show God's love to a hurting world.