Being logical and sensible, what new projects do you see OKC being able to support as a business in the next 5-8 years??

what hotels, entertainment venues, etc.

I think we can support a Hyatt Regency or equal convention hotel.

I think we can support a boardwalk development on the river like this:

http://www.kemahboardwalk.com

One high quality department store: most likely Nordstrom

One or two of the Whole Foods/Trader Joe's (if the liquor laws are relaxed)

One new high quality downtown hotel, such as Hyatt or
W - possibly in a mixed-use tower with condos

A contemporary art museum downtown to complement the more traditional existing OCAM

Probably double the number of downtown condos/apts that are currently planned. 2% of most metro areas will live in a downtown, assume OKC can support half that and that's 10,000

You are aware that Nordstrom's most direct competition is Macy's, that is now here?

wouldnt the goal be 26,000 downtown residents?

(if OKC Metro is 1.3M, 2% of the metro is 26K downtown).

I still think a Nordstroms taking up the entire Century Center space would be a good fit.

1. A second major league franchise.

2. Fry's (they are an electronics company)

3. Ruby Tuesday's.

4. Hyundai assembally plant.

5. Bloomingdales

6. A second Comp-USA (on the southwest side)

7. A major theme park

8. Jet Blue and some other airlines.

There are more, however, I just am not able to think of them now.

Swake: Many cities have Nordstrom and Macy's. In St. Louis where I live. Nordstrom's competitors are seen as Sak's and Neiman-Marcus. Macy's is roughly equal to the May Company stores (Foley's) that preceeded it. It more closely resembles a dressed-up Dillard's than a Nordstrom.

Hot Rod: 26,000 should certainly be the goal. But I don't think OKC will get there in 5-8 years.

I think we can aspire to at least another two LifeChurch dot T-V franchises.

A W in OKC would turn a lot of heads.

I second nods to Whole Foods, Hyatt Regency, and Nordstrom's. They're all possibe downtown and will be successful if thoughtfully planned.

1. A second major league franchise.

2. Fry's (they are an electronics company)

3. Ruby Tuesday's.

4. Hyundai assembally plant.

5. Bloomingdales

6. A second Comp-USA (on the southwest side)

7. A major theme park

8. Jet Blue and some other airlines.

There are more, however, I just am not able to think of them now.

The second CompUSA probably won't be happening for a long time - if at all. CompUSA is on the block and looking for buyers as other big box retailers, that also sell computers, are killing them in the marketplace. Rumors are that things are so bad, the current Mexican owners, if unable to find a buyer, could shutter some - or all - the stores to stop the bleeding.

------------------

I think we can aspire to at least another two LifeChurch dot T-V franchises.

I've noticed many of your posts, especially lately, seem to be bitter and antagonistic.

I'd be curious to know why.

Swake: Many cities have Nordstrom and Macy's. In St. Louis where I live. Nordstrom's competitors are seen as Sak's and Neiman-Marcus. Macy's is roughly equal to the May Company stores (Foley's) that preceeded it. It more closely resembles a dressed-up Dillard's than a Nordstrom.

I'm not saying you can't have both and I agree Nordstrom's is a little nicer on average than Macy's, but, Nordstrom's is not really that different and wouldn't add much.

Nordstrom's, IMO, is no Sak's, Bloomingdales or Neiman's.

I've noticed many of your posts, especially lately, seem to be bitter and antagonistic.

I'd be curious to know why.

The weather?

I'm pretty sure Nordstrom wouldn't be caught dead in Crossroads Mall, so I think it would be an upgrade.

Isn't there already Ruby Tuesday's in Norman? And for Midtowner, Lifechurch.tv is already working on a NW campus that should be open by winter. That's one out of the 2 on your wish list.

Isn't there already Ruby Tuesday's in Norman? And for Midtowner, Lifechurch.tv is already working on a NW campus that should be open by winter. That's one out of the 2 on your wish list.

No. The one in Norman is Red Robin. They also have one just north of Pennsylvania and Memorial. Ruby Tuesday's is locating in Tulsa, however, for some unknown reason, they are passing on Oklahoma City.

Yes, I'm not questioning about Red Robin, I'm familiar with them and have eaten at them many times. I still think there is a Ruby Tuesday in Norman however. I could be wrong. Either way, I don't think a Ruby Tuesday is something OKC has to wait 5-8 years to support. It is a chain restaurant for crying out loud, we could have supported one 20 years ago.

I agree. Forget the chain restaurants. All there is here is restaurants. No wonder there are so many fat people, all we think is eat.

all we think is eat.

We do not!

Actually. On second thought ... a good cheeseburger sounds really great right now.... lol

Music maestro!

A music venue on the river (amphitheater like in Tulsa) would be great!!! We have Soundbites in Kerr Park - which is great - but need a major music venue in proximity to downtown.:congrats: :congrats: :congrats:

I think we can support a Hyatt Regency or equal convention hotel.

I think we can support a boardwalk development on the river like this:

Macromedia Flash Detection HTML Example (http://www.kemahboardwalk.com)

Funny you would bring something like that up. In my pre-Oklahoma days I had a small little house in the Bayou Vista area just south of Kemah that I usualy could be seen at during the weekend. I would love to see something like Kemah here but we just don't have an ocean.

Rather than start a new thread, I'll jump in on this one. Maybe I have not been paying attention lately, but, it seems as though, in the last 6 months(approx.) there has been very little news of new projects for the OKC metro area. Is there not much going on? Have I missed something? Are we slowing down in progress? Someone elighten me, please.

I would say, not too many new projects have been announced but ones that have previously been announced are now well underway or wrapping up. This will only spur more development although much more has yet to be announced.

The biggest recent thing I can think of is the continuing progress of Banta's Midtown Renaissance, which I think is a great project.

The Triangle development is just getting started, I'm sure we'll be hearing a lot about the many pieces that make up that project in the next few years. Also construction has begun on the I-40 relocation, which will eventually spur additional development down there. That's one of the most exciting projects in the city because it has so much potential to really add more housing/retail to the area of downtown by Bricktown and the Ford Center/Convention Center.

I think we can support a boardwalk development on the river like this:

Macromedia Flash Detection HTML Example (http://www.kemahboardwalk.com)


Looks like Kemah Boardwalk is developed by Landry's Restaurants.
Kemah Waterfront (http://www.specialtyretail.net/issues/June99/waterfront.htm) (interesting read I think)

Landry's Restaurants run restaurants like Saltgrass, Joe's Crab Shack, Rainforest Café.... among others. Landry's Restaurants, Inc. (http://www.landrysrestaurants.com/home.htm)

The company also owns aquariums, hotels, and other entertainment properties, including the Vegas Golden Nugget Hotels and Casinos. Chairman and CEO Tilman Fertitta owns almost 30% of the company.

Take a look at this project of theirs:
Tower of the Americas (http://www.toweroftheamericas.com/)

Their Specialty Growth Division includes the following properties: Kemah Boardwalk-Galveston County, Texas, Downtown Aquarium-Houston, Texas, Downtown Aquarium-Denver, Colorado, Galveston Island Convention Center, Holiday Inn on the Beach-Galveston, Texas, Inn at the Ballpark-Houston, Texas, Flagship Inn and Pleasure Pier-Galveston, Texas and Tower of the Americas-San Antonio, Texas.

Mr. Jeffrey L. Cantwell serves as Senior Vice President of Development. (JCantwell@ldry.com)

That would be an interesting development. How about we all bombard them with emails?

Yeah I had noticed that before. I'm up for it. Email campaign!

yep, i'm sending mine now!

Yeah I had noticed that before. I'm up for it. Email campaign!


yep, i'm sending mine now!


Anyone else on board to email??

Anyone else on board to email??

guess not. lol

enough said.

http://www.pizzahutpark.com/Portals/0/images/park_nolegend5.gif

Okay, I'm lost...what does the above pic have to do with anything mentioned in this thread?

I think we can support a Hyatt Regency or equal convention hotel.

I think we can support a boardwalk development on the river like this:

Macromedia Flash Detection HTML Example (http://www.kemahboardwalk.com)

I would rather see something like Kemah go along the undeveloped portions of Lake Overholser.

Okay, I'm lost...what does the above pic have to do with anything mentioned in this thread?

T.W. has been pushing this sprawling mass of grass and painted lines as downtown development on this forum, in many differant threads. I don't think he gets the concept of land being worth MILLIONS in terms of the possibilities.

Spartan, this thread was in reference to the ENTIRE metro area. this needs to get done somewhere in the metro, IMO.

I'm guessing you're referring to an MLS stadium? Where would you like to see one? How about on the river somewhere?

i completely support that idea, Patrick. it would be a great addition, but many here seem to believe that the real estate is prohibitively expensive.

ideally, the stadium could be positioned on the river near a complex of casino hotels, but that would require a tremendous amount of obstacles to be overcome. that being the case, to what extent do you think the taxpayers of Oklahoma County would be willing to subsidize costs for such a venue, which would also be able to host concerts on the waterfront? a stadium that is similarly formatted like this is the one that is proposed to be built in vancouver.

follow the link, look at the images, and tell me what you guys think. the stadium seats approx. 15,000 at a proposed cost to build at $50 million USD.

http://www.whitecapsnewstadium.com/data/upload/renderings_city_sm.jpg
http://www.whitecapsnewstadium.com/data/upload/renderings_aerial_map_sm.jpg

Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium (http://www.whitecapsnewstadium.com/renderings.cfm)

http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/8131-core-shore-i-40-a.html

I was going by your statement in another thread, where you did indeed want to build a sprawling soccer complex in the heart of the Riverside neighorhood. You proposed a soccer complex and not just an MLS stadium.

That latter I would support, the former would be a huge waste of land...make up your mind.

easy there, geminy christmas!

i'm just wanting a feel from a particularly diverse group of OKC residents as to where such a facility would work best. if done right, this could seriously enhance the city.

i was not aware that the prior thread dealt with a propsed residential/retail only neighborhood. a facility such as the previously mentioned one in vancouver, situated on the river, with adjacent youth soccer fields for the city to host tournaments would be incredible. the big question is, how much would taxpayers support?

here's one going up in Germany currently. it seats 25,000 and actually cost only $39 million USD.

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/images/news/magedburg_091106_01.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/neubau/fotos/stadion_magdeburg/modell/100.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/neubau/fotos/stadion_magdeburg/modell/110.jpg

Theo, do you live in OKC? I get the impression that's a no, so I'll help you out with your question...I think voters in OKC would support something that can be proven to improve the community.

MLS is the fastest growing league, and I think that we would be a major blip on their radar, as we are on the NBA radar, if we build the right facility.

And that is not sensitive equipment either. Cities have been waiting for years to get on the NBA list, and we finally got on in a very big way, and there are cities with the NBA or even the MLS that take REALLY good care of their team. Salt Lake takes excellant care of their MLS team. San Antonio takes excellant care of their NBA team.

That said, you should really pay more attention to the threads you post in.

how about this one, Spartan? this is KC's proposed stadium, which may or may not get built.

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/536/aerialupdatero6.jpg

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/536/aerialupdatero6.jpg

i really like the in-ground design of this one. it would probably be quite loud.

I think a lot of whether voters would support it here, would depend on our chances of getting an MLS team.

we are a 100% lock for a team with a stadium such as those above. I would imagine that the MLS would declare as much were the matter to come to a vote.

I think a stadium on the river is a fine idea, but it needs to be a landmark, if OKC voters are going to pay for the top-of-the-line, and not just something simillar to Des Moines', considering how much larger we are.

The KC stadium would need to be built in the earthosphere, for starters.

i agree about it being a landmark. it should be set right on the river but built in such a way that the skyline is exposed, so it all kind of flows together. perhaps a design that plays off the cues found in the new airport terminal? that is a very unique design and might work well if implemented in a state-of-the-art soccer venue.

While I think it would be a fantastic idea for the future, I just don't see the city building that any time soon unless it were a completely privately-fueled investment (Another Gaylord team?)

Regardless, it is a good idea, especially to adjust for the growing influx of Mexicans and general Latin Americans. MLS is a fascinating sport. If we can build a skate park that really doesn't bring in any revanue for the city (which I can't fathom why there aren't any arcades around the complex or paintball fields. Something to generate revanue off of the skaters.) I can't see why we couldn't build a soccer field to please both the minorities and the majority.

While I think such an investment would belong in an area closer to a higher Latin concentration, it may do wonders on the south side of the river or closer to the proposed Latin neighborhood that was in talks of renovating. I think an MLS team would probably have waisted potential on the UCO field, though the good faith and measure is there. A project like this would also be great closer to the interstate for tourism.

I also know that many would continue to shoot down the idea of a new football stadium in favor of the two-team rivalry, however it amazes me that we are not an NFL city. Spartan (I believe it was you who had the riverfront proposal,) do you know if the area south of the river next to I-35 is has actually been zoned as a sports complex or just in talks? I think we could all agree it would be fantastic area for whatever would work best.

There is nothing in talks for a sports complex east of the boathouse.

That I know of, that is.

Agh, My mind was on the other side of the area, I meant to say I-44. Here's the plans I had been referring to that Shane had: Oklahoma City Development News 1 - Page 7 - SkyscraperCity (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=223555&page=7)

Does anyone have any more information on this proposal?

I really can't see MLS being very successfull in OKC. I live in Tulsa and I plan on going to a Hornets game later in the year, but I can't see myself traveling to OKC to watch a MLS game(but thats just me). A soccer team probably would work for the first couple of years, but I think it would eventually die down.

I think OKC could handle a NFL team (although its not going to happen). The city could build a stadium that holds around 75,000 and use it for Big XII championship games, some OU or OSU games, possible a college football bowl game, and eventually bring an NFL team to OKC in the future.

no way OU is going to play any of their home games in okc with the $$ that has been spent on the stadium in Norman. Plus OKC has nothing that could compare to the gameday atmosphere in Norman - campus corner, O'Connels, etc.

the MLS is going to be our only other professional sports option because 1. costs [stadium and ticket prices are reasonable]; 2. league runs through the summer and compliments the football season; 3. Oklahomans are going to support professional soccer better than hockey; 4. the MLS is a growing league with a promising future; 5. a soccer-specific stadium would enhance the city.

you want another pro sport, OKC? the only other option is pro soccer, and it WILL work.

the MLS is going to be our only other professional sports option because 1. costs [stadium and ticket prices are reasonable]; 2. league runs through the summer and compliments the football season; 3. Oklahomans are going to support professional soccer better than hockey; 4. the MLS is a growing league with a promising future; 5. a soccer-specific stadium would enhance the city.

you want another pro sport, OKC? the only other option is pro soccer, and it WILL work.

So what if numbers 1-4 are true? It still doesn't put butts in the seats.

And whad'ya mean OKC would support mls better than hockey? The Blazers have been a big success for over a decade. I don't know that we'd pack the house for every game of an NHL team, but I think it's been proven that hockey can work in this city. The only reason the Blazers have been down lately is because of the excitement of the NBA.

I could be totally wrong, but I just don't see mls being that huge of a hit in Oklahoma. It's a football state followed by basketball and baseball. It's a state where we have 45k people show up for a regular season game of high school football. I just don't see everyone going ga ga over soccer.

Heck, I think we'd have more success with a NASCAR track than soccer because NASCAR fans travel well. They follow their sport around like Dead Heads did with the Grateful Dead. So in that aspect it wouldn't be up to the metro alone to support it like it is for a pro home team sport.

And BTW, I don't buy into the thought that mls is our only other option for a pro sport but if it is, it still doesn't make it viable. Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should and just because we have it doesn't mean people will show up consistantly for it.

the MLS is going to be our only other professional sports option because 1. costs [stadium and ticket prices are reasonable]; 2. league runs through the summer and compliments the football season; 3. Oklahomans are going to support professional soccer better than hockey; 4. the MLS is a growing league with a promising future; 5. a soccer-specific stadium would enhance the city.

you want another pro sport, OKC? the only other option is pro soccer, and it WILL work.

We have four professional teams. The Hornets, the Blazers, The RedHawks, and the Yard Dawgz. These men ALL get paid to play. Therefore, they are professional athletes. Only the Hornets are Major League, however.

I suggest a space of about three blocks square with a 100 foot wide border of closely planted large trees surrounding an open grass park with absolutely nothing built in it. This city is rapidly losing every quiet open space in every park. Either someone thinks it's a good idea to build another mediocre restaurant or put in a building of some sort or a place for a sporting activity. I don't disagree that appropriate development is good, but undeveloped space is good also. There must be enough open space to fly kites. Central Park in NYC is the best example in the world of the value of open space. Sometimes less really is more.

Agreed, but wouldn't it be better to do so in a different area? That's prime real estate, too close to the Myriad Gardens. If OKC were ever to have a Central Park, I think it'd be better suited eventually in or outside of Midtown, possibly even across the highway, north of the medical district.

I do agree that most things going in are mediocre, but I would assume that most people know that we can't really screw this up. I think the expansion along with the river gives OKC the chance to do something really special (and to kill all of the "there's never anything to do in the City" dismissals :-).)