Most of us saw the story in the paper several days ago talking about West End's death in Dallas. You think Bricktown will follow a similar fate in years to come?

Depends Patrick... I think if Bricktown becomes a unique place, then it could surivive indefinitely. If it continues to accept... no, embrace mediocrity, then it will go the way of the West End.

What really killed the West End were other entertainment districts which differentiated themselves and were/are not cookie-cutter clumps of chain restaurants.

Bricktown has a ballpark and a movie theater. I do not recall the West End having either of those. I think it'll survive.

I think a key point to Bricktown's success is it's uniqueness. Putting in a bunch of chain restaurants is just going to make it seem like everywhere else...why drive to Bricktown (if you live in say, Edmond or Moore) if the same restaurants are a mile down the road from you now? Locally-owned restaurants are totally the way to go.

Also, RETAIL would certainly help. Hopefully we'll be getting some more high-end, unique shops. But not too high-end, or you'll price people right out.

It also needs to have a proportionate number of family-friendly fun and adult fun. I'm not talking playgrounds next to strip clubs...but at least something for the kiddos to do before their curfew and continuing entertainment for those of us who are older.

The ballpark and movie theater will help...though a movie theater in itself is not that spectacular, it's by far the nicest one and it should be kept that way.

It also needs to have a proportionate number of family-friendly fun and adult fun. I'm not talking playgrounds next to strip clubs...but at least something for the kiddos to do before their curfew and continuing entertainment for those of us who are older.

The ballpark and movie theater will help...though a movie theater in itself is not that spectacular, it's by far the nicest one and it should be kept that way.

We can't forget the amusement ride "Dungeon/Santaland"

That's exactly why I brought the amusement ride down there. It's a family-friendly fun thing to do. The Dungeon during the spring, summer and fall which converts to a winter wonderland ride during the winter. No other bricktown in the U.S.A. has one. NONE!!!
And more is on the way :spin: .

What is that? Where is it?

If you want to see what makes for a lasting entertainment district, look for the ones that have been around a long time, Westport in Kansas City and Brookside in Tulsa, neither are downtown but both have been nightlife areas for many decades. Both have bad but free parking, large residentials populations, and mostly local establishments.

They are going to have to continue to redevelop the same area with new attractions to keep it mixed up. If we get put in this position of where itis the same thing to do, over and over again, it will eventually die out. Yes people will go there for ball games...the rest though gets old. The movie theatre is great, but you can't have that as an attraction by itself.

The movie theatre is great, but you can't have that as an attraction by itself.

The movie theatre isn't by itself.

Now, while I like movies, a movie is something to go and do when there isn't something better to do. Do you go to movies when you are on vacation?

Attractions are nice, but aren't end all be all, desitination spots are more important, and they can be things like the canal ride or a unique (or least tourist popular) restuarant.

Famous/good local food is always better than national chains. The chains always seem to fade as they reach oversaturation. Planet Hollywood and Hard Rock come to mind as past or fading favorites.

Current national trendy chains like Elephant Bar and Rainforest Cafe will eventually fade too. Cheesecake Factory may do better longer as they are more focused on food than gimick, but building in the parking lot of a mall in OKC is a bad sign of oversaturation.

Attractions like the new Land Run Memorial will better stand the test of time, but a danger sign in Bricktown is the overall weak mix of restuarants.

One idea I would have to help keep Bricktown from suffering the fate of the West End would be for the city to buy/build a building in the heart of Bricktown and lease at reasonable rates only to locally based retailers. This could jumpstart the lagging retail end of Bricktown and help to keep the district from being mindlessly killed by unrealistic rental rates from current building owners that have largely empty buildings. It will also help it to be a better draw over time by keeping the area more unique. More retail would also make the area more popular to live in or near.

Also, a free garage would help, at least have free parking in that massive city garage on the other side of the highway. That would really help.

I know you all hate Tulsa comparisons but Brookside has been around for over 50 years, with ZERO attractions. The heart of Brookside is only four blocks long with over two dozen restuarants and bars and probably more than two dozen other galleries, coffee shops, gyms, stores, etc and very few are not local.

but a danger sign in Bricktown is the overall weak mix of restuarants.

Can't say I agree that there's a weak mix of restaurants.

I think one of the coolest Bricktown features (or feature near Bricktown) is OKC Rocks, though I would like to see a more modern building in it's place. As mentioned before, we're getting too many chain restaurants in a place that begs for it's own color. In addition, I'm tired of seeing restaurants period. This is an entertainment district, and while it's tolerable to have restaurants in Bricktown, it almost seems as if people can't come up with any ideas and say, "Ah, hell...let's put in a restaurant."

OKC Rocks adds adventure to Bricktown and is unique. I think floating the canal COULD'VE been cool if OKC connected the canal and made the passageways wider. I know there is a problem with elevation, but moving dirt from place to place is not all that difficult.
It would've been really cool if OKC run the canal through the Myriad Botanical Gardens, though elevation wouldn't allow for that. Those are sacred grounds I wouldn't want touched unless they keep the area as close to original as possible.

Dungeon Master, I believe your idea is great but I think the dungeon idea only fits well in October. In addition, the effects and ride seem cheaply produced. However, I praise your vision and I'm thankful we have people like you to help make Bricktown a better place for everyone. Please take the above as constructive critism.

I'll end this with saying, I like "The Brick" and everything else in "Bricktown Proper". Everything south of Reno (Except OKC Rocks) needs to be bulldozed.

it needs a comedy club!

it needs a comedy club!

Exactly! I mentioned something about a comedy club and how it would fit perfectly in Bricktown a few months ago. Some liked the idea and others said it wouldn't fit into the "family" atmosphere. I respect everyone's argument, but I think a comedy club is just one more venue for entertainment missing from Bricktown. Until that happens, anything with the word "laughing" in it's title will be Laughing Fish.

Here is a list of some other things I wouldn't mind seeing in Bricktown.

1. Brick
2. A really cool museum (of what, I don't know)
3. More lights

I planned on adding more, but I can't think of anything else at the time. I do have a few ideas for "Riverside". I'll start a thread on that later.

I think it will last 15 years and then it will be a bad part of the city with gangs and alot of crime and the buildings will be falling apart.

I think it will last 15 years and then it will be a bad part of the city with gangs and alot of crime and the buildings will be falling apart.

Got anything to back up this generalization?

One aspect Bricktown has that the West End does not is the canal. You could even equate the American Airlines Center to having the ballpark at Bricktown in the way of a restaurant/bar draw. I do believe the canal needs to be developed and made better. I think one could also make a comparison to the San Antonio Riverwalk as well which is a long time tourist draw. Before anybody crucifies me for that comparison I do realize the canal is relatively new in comparison to the San Antonio Riverwalk. People love water and I think the canal is something that makes Bricktown one better than the West End.

Dungeon Master, I believe your idea is great but I think the dungeon idea only fits well in October. In addition, the effects and ride seem cheaply produced. However, I praise your vision and I'm thankful we have people like you to help make Bricktown a better place for everyone. Please take the above as constructive critism.

AFCM, I appreciate your honesty while I differ on the comment of "cheaply produced". (I'm asuming you rode the ride) No, it's not Walt Disney but it's not your carnie ride set-up or your store bought props. I have a full time job at the Air National Guard. My dream is to build something to entertain families while working this full time job. I've invested savings & loan after loan to get it to a standard that I have not met yet. Every dime (plus extra from each paycheck) is going right back into the ride and I've been doing that ever since I started. Heck I just spent $3,200 on animatronics for this Christmas. If only people new what it took to get something like this (and any other business) going and especially down in bricktown. But don't get me wrong on that. I will not put out a crappy product either.
As for your idea of the Dungeon during October, I can agree on that to a certain point but when the "Ripley's Haunted Adventure" in San Antonio (right across the Alamo) is open year round (making money & providing entertainment) then why couldn't there be something like that here. Well, here it is, and it's more than a walk thru haunt. (I've been thru it and wasn't impressed) Yes, I don't have Ripley's money, but I've provided a fun thrill for thousands of folks already this summer. Younger kids, older adults, the physically challenged and everybody in between (excuse me but I think I just listed the folks that can't or won't go into bars). Just to let you know, we poll just about everyone that walks out that door and the positive feedback is around 90% to 95%. Yes, my goal is 100% and I will strive for that every day. The ride is getting better as time goes on and it's because I still re-invest back into it until "I" get that 100%. Did Wal-Mart become a super store over night? NO. That's how businesses work, especially individual owners with the only thing they have to work with is their own money and devotion to entertain others.
Again, I appreciate your honest opinion and hope you come back again this Halloween, Christmas or/and even next year to see how the ride has improved according to your standards. It's the least I could ask for.
This is just constructive critism on top of constructive critism while explaining the developement in a very short message of how reality really is.
Thank you.

I know you all hate Tulsa comparisons but Brookside has been around for over 50 years, with ZERO attractions. The heart of Brookside is only four blocks long with over two dozen restuarants and bars and probably more than two dozen other galleries, coffee shops, gyms, stores, etc and very few are not local.

I see your point, swake2, but Brookside in Tulsa is in the same league as Western Avenue in OKC. Both do not have attractions but are strong neighborhood districts with locally owned businesses.

Got anything to back up this generalization?

You know the difference between the tools you buy at Sears and the tools you buy at Walmart? I feel the quality here is the same as Walmart. Pretty and very plastic, as far as substance not much of it, it costs more to maintain that its worth. I see popularity dieing down and with that the funds to keep up the security and the maintenance dissappearing. Then what you have is a bunch of drunks running from bar to bar throwing beer bottles and trash everywhere and then the fights and crime will get worse. Then the people who want to take their families out for dinner and a movie will go elsewhere. Some people will be too afraid to even park here with all the broken glass let alone walk these streets to go from bar to bar that they will also go else where. I think that the only thing this place will be is a parking lot for the ballfield and the Ford center eventually. I work down here and that is just the feeling I get. I hope I am wrong.

You know the difference between the tools you buy at Sears and the tools you buy at Walmart? I feel the quality here is the same as Walmart. Pretty and very plastic, as far as substance not much of it, it costs more to maintain that its worth. I see popularity dieing down and with that the funds to keep up the security and the maintenance dissappearing. Then what you have is a bunch of drunks running from bar to bar throwing beer bottles and trash everywhere and then the fights and crime will get worse. Then the people who want to take their families out for dinner and a movie will go elsewhere. Some people will be too afraid to even park here with all the broken glass let alone walk these streets to go from bar to bar that they will also go else where. I think that the only thing this place will be is a parking lot for the ballfield and the Ford center eventually. I work down here and that is just the feeling I get. I hope I am wrong.

I strongly disagree, and I feel your predictions are a little hasty. Can you back up your claim to say it costs more to maintain that it's worth? Are you saying that the police are not doing their job? I was down there just a couple of months ago and things were as great as they were every year I've visited.

Folks, no one here is giving credit where it is due, and people are starting to forget the quality establishments Bricktown DOES have and spend too much time worrying about the cheap stuff south of Reno.

Quality establishments have opened in Bricktown in the last several years, such as Nonna's (I don't see that restaurant and art gallery going anywhere anytime soon), LiT (which has been around for a long time and still attracts good clientele), Citywalk (in the same boat as LiT) and a number of other establishments. The RedHawks and the ballpark, combined with the canal, have too much of an interest in Bricktown for popularity to fall wayward.

I see Bricktown evolving, transforming and finding its identity. The district is just barely maturing, and everyone is ready to pull the plug just because a few mistakes were made? A baseball stadium and canal are not in the West End. There was really no anchorship.

Does Bricktown need to correct mistakes it has made recently? Of course. Honestly, Bricktown will likely see better days after the condo and two hotels are completed.

The only failures I've seen in the Bricktown area can be credited to developers without vision. By failure, I do not mean that these developments will fail, but I mean this:

"Residence Inn??? WTF were you thinking?"

Developers thus far have not been disappointed when they've built truly first class operations. Why build glorified motels when we could be building full-on conference hosting hotel facilities like Hyatt Regency?

I think Bricktown is still very young. Still growing; learning to walk and finding out what works and doesn't work. A lot of people have put a lot of money into that part of town, and the City is motivated to do it's part to insure public safety. I'm betting Bricktown will be around for a long,long time.

They should of put the arts building in bricktown. Also the Oklahoma history center should of gone by the canal, by the land run statues.

And the native center should of gone down there somewhere although I don't think near the land run statue would be an appropriate place.

That would be three things other than eating, drinking, or seeing a movie that a person could do in Bricktown. And it would of lead to more retail in bricktown (more foot-traffic in the area).

But it's not too late to put in a casino down there.

Gambling, along with shopping are two of the main activities people do on vacation.

For right now I'll settle for burying those horrendous-looking power lines.

They should of put the arts building in bricktown. Also the Oklahoma history center should of gone by the canal, by the land run statues.

And the native center should of gone down there somewhere although I don't think near the land run statue would be an appropriate place.

That would be three things other than eating, drinking, or seeing a movie that a person could do in Bricktown. And it would of lead to more retail in bricktown (more foot-traffic in the area).

Everything doesn't have to be in Bricktown. Those attractions are all better suited where they are. We have the people, we just need the developers to get the retail in here.

For right now I'll settle for burying those horrendous-looking power lines.


I like that idea!