Peace on Earth, Not Necessarily Aboard Aircraft

By Keith L. Alexander

Tuesday, December 27, 2005; Page D01

It's holiday time and that means -- theoretically at least -- peace on Earth and good will toward men (and women).

But two recent airline incidents raise the question: Does good will apply to the skies?

One episode involved the wife of a world-renowned televangelist who was removed from her Continental Airlines flight after what witnesses said was an altercation with a flight attendant.

The other involved a 90-year-old passenger who was removed from his assigned seat on Delta Air Lines to accommodate a Saint Bernard.

The incidents occurred within weeks of each other at a time when airlines were at their busiest and airline employees -- suffering from understaffing because of recent layoffs -- were overworked.

Last week, Victoria Osteen, wife of the televangelist Joel Osteen, pastor of the Houston-based Lakewood Church, was removed from Continental flight 1602 to Vail, Colo., after she "failed to comply" with a flight attendant's request, according to a report filed by the airline to the FBI.

The Osteens, like many of the passengers on the flight, were headed to Vail for a family ski vacation. Donald Iloff, spokesman for the couple, called the episode a "90-second misunderstanding."

The misunderstanding occurred when the Osteens boarded the first-class cabin and Victoria Osteen noticed a liquid spill on her seat. She asked one flight attendant to clean it, but the attendant was unable to do so at the time because passengers were boarding. Osteen then asked another flight attendant. That attendant was also busy and instead gave Osteen napkins to clean it herself.

What happened next differs depending on who's telling the tale. According to two written complaints filed by the attendants to union officials, Osteen became angry and barged toward the cockpit saying that she "wanted to speak to someone in charge." One attendant tried to stop her and she pushed the attendant aside, according to the reports. A second attendant stepped forward and Osteen grabbed that attendant by the wrist and engaged in an argument outside of the cockpit.

Touching a flight attendant is a federal offense, according to the Federal Aviation Administration. Iloff said that he didn't know if Osteen had touched the attendant.

Osteen was removed from the aircraft and her husband and two children accompanied her. For nearly two hours, the flight waited at the gate as the Osteens' bags were removed. The family later took a chartered Continental flight to Vail, according to a source within the flight attendants union.

Continental spokeswoman Julie King refused to elaborate, saying only: "The matter has been resolved."

(rest of story here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/26/AR2005122600828.html )

I can't stand snotty flight attentdants aka - glorified waitresses, now they know they can be rude to anyone and the customer has no recourse. Some of them can be so mean! I've personally witnessed them being extremely rude to some passengers..
But, on the other hand, sounds like someone is in need of an exorcism lol - I guess we're all human.. everyone has bad days. I've always thought that if you treat people nicely and with respect, they tend to do the same... but you'll find your jerks everywhere in every situation.

However, I wouldn't want to sit on a wet seat either, who knows how it got wet?

Not fun being in the public eye and being held to such high standards I imagine. She preaches too.. what's the saying, practice what you preach ?ha,ha.

The standards should be higher for those who are supposed to be Christian-like examples. What happened to turning the other cheek? Really, if a flight attendant is busy helping other clients board the plane, what is so tough about soaking up some liquid with a towel which has been provided to you? That never merits a temper tantrum unless you're a spoiled beeotch.

If she weren't a) extremely attractive, resulting in b) being married to Joel Osteen, do you even think she would be flying up front on that plane?

The bottom line is that if you're riding the coat tails of someone else to wealth, you ought to show a few ounces of humility from time to time. Especially when a large part of your wealth came from a religion which is supposed to teach humility.

You get a thumbs-up for that one.

Wow. Superiority complex, anyone?

Just clean up the stupid spill. It was probably just a drink from before. Put the little blanket they give you over it and move on with your life.

Maybe that explains Joel's next book "Your Best Flight Now"...

I guess if Saint Martha of Stewart can go to prison for securities fraud, then Saint Victoria of Osteen can have a bad day too.

Nothing surprises me anymore. There are people that I've placed on such a high pedestal that turned out to be so vain and materialistic. It disappoints me. Are there no humble, honest people out there anymore?

Drumsncode, the problem is that it's not necessarily "we" placing her on that pedestal. She and Joel have assumed that pedestal by making their living (a really healthy living) at preaching "God's word" (and that's in quotes because whether or not they teach that is open for debate).

The standards should be higher for those who are supposed to be Christian-like examples. Last time I checked she's human just like anyone else.

Last time I checked she's human just like anyone else.

Patrick, I'll admit that people make mistakes. However, normal people do not throw temper tantrums on first class over tiny things such as this.

She has placed herself quite willingly under the microscope, and should know well that such things would attract the wrong sort of attention.

That said, do you think that you would throw such a tantrum on first class? As pugnacious as I can be, do you think I would? Heck no.

Patrick, I'll admit that people make mistakes. However, normal people do not throw temper tantrums on first class over tiny things such as this..

She's a woman with estrogen, right? Not being sexist, just pointing out that PMS could've played a culprit here.

Patrick, if you or I had done this, we would very likely be charged with a felony crime for assaulting a flight attendant. If our wives had been the culprits, I doubt the venerable PMS defense would be very affective.

Uh, PMS doesn't excuse felonies, Patrick. And frankly, if PMS makes you grab strangers in an angry fashion when you don't get your way, then frankly, you need to get some real help.

I'm not very nice when I have the whole pms thing going on, but would I grab a student by the arm and demand something? Or another teacher? Or a flight attendant? I think not, because I realize that I am not above the law, hormones or not.

In her letter, which can be read at at www.lakewood.cc, Osteen stated:

"Regardless of how some have portrayed the situation, please know that it was truly a minor misunderstanding and did not escalate into what you saw or read in the news. Contrary to those reports, it was my choice to remove myself from the situation. Nonetheless, it was a most unfortunate event and I truly regret that it happened."

Osteen's letter continued, "The last thing I would ever want to do is let any of you down. And I promise you that I did not act in any way that would cast a bad light on you, my family, Lakewood Church or our Lord Jesus Christ. I value the position that God has placed me in and I can assure you that I will always walk in love and integrity. While I am not perfect, I will always seek to be a peacemaker and seek the high road."
The incident apparently stemmed from a spilled liquid on Osteen's seat in the first class section of the airplane. A church spokesman said the spill was not cleaned up to Osteen's satisfaction, and the family left the plane voluntarily.

She would never have any reason to spin the incident into something more minor than it actually was, huh?

Miss a flight because of a spill on a seat? Do you think Jesus would have let a "spill on a seat" get in the way of reaching his destination?

Furthermore, "First Class"? Would Jesus have traveled "First Class"? Seems to me he came into Jerusalem on the back of a donkey... hardly "First Class" transportation.

In her letter, which can be read at at www.lakewood.cc, Osteen stated:

"Regardless of how some have portrayed the situation, please know that it was truly a minor misunderstanding and did not escalate into what you saw or read in the news. Contrary to those reports, it was my choice to remove myself from the situation. Nonetheless, it was a most unfortunate event and I truly regret that it happened."

Osteen's letter continued, "The last thing I would ever want to do is let any of you down. And I promise you that I did not act in any way that would cast a bad light on you, my family, Lakewood Church or our Lord Jesus Christ. I value the position that God has placed me in and I can assure you that I will always walk in love and integrity. While I am not perfect, I will always seek to be a peacemaker and seek the high road."
The incident apparently stemmed from a spilled liquid on Osteen's seat in the first class section of the airplane. A church spokesman said the spill was not cleaned up to Osteen's satisfaction, and the family left the plane voluntarily.

Which runs directly contrary to two flight attendant's affidavits -- both of who were there, unlike hubbie who "removed himself from the situation."

Why would he "remove himself" from the situation when he in the same letter says that he "will always seek to be a peacemaker and seek the high road"? I suppose letting your wife go apescat on a flight attendant over a little bit of nothing is being a peacemaker/high road sort of guy.

So first, he lies about it happening, even though he wasn't there, or removed himself from the area. Then, he contradicts himself by saying that he "always" doesn't do what he just said he did. There's just not a wholelot of substance in the letter if you asked me.

His note is probably the lamest thing I've ever read. Always walk in love and integrity...think I just threw up a little in my mouth :spin:

Sounds like his wife has a slight ego problem...just a slight one though

Last time I checked she's human just like anyone else.
Agreed. I believe we are all human and make mistakes. It's just that some people like to make a bigger deal out of it than it actually is.

Agreed. I believe we are all human and make mistakes. It's just that some people like to make a bigger deal out of it than it actually is.

I'm sure everyone locked up in the county jail wishes we all had the same forgiveness for their 'mistakes' which probably would carry a lesser sentence than Osteen's wife's apparent crime were she not white, pretty, and wealthy.

Funny how some are pro-death penalty, and pro-lock-m-up-n-throw-away-the-key, crime & punishment conservatives when we're punishing blacks, hispanics, and poor folks. When it comes to white, pretty preacher's wives, their hearts overflow with forgiveness.

I guess by your standard, we ought to go through the County, State, and the Federal prison systems, and pardon any convict who says that their crimes were 'mistakes' as well.

Her story represents hypocracy at its best.

Furthermore, "First Class"? Would Jesus have traveled "First Class"? Seems to me he came into Jerusalem on the back of a donkey... hardly "First Class" transportation.
And did Jesus ever vacation in Vail, CO? I guess when you preach to such a large congregation, you don't have to take the vow of poverty or even modesty.

Agreed. I believe we are all human and make mistakes. It's just that some people like to make a bigger deal out of it than it actually is. You mean like when a member of a girls country singing group exercising her constitutional right to criticize our government's leader(s), some people make a bigger deal out of than it actually is (http://www.okctalk.com/58355-post1.html), and hoping that these girls' singing careers "go under", is that what you're referring to?

I think the point is that when you have a very public ministry where you uphold certain "positive thinking" standards, when you fall short of those standards in a way that the rest of us likely wouldn't get away with, people are likely to point out that it is indeed a bigger deal than what Joel and Victoria want it to be.

The difference Brad, is that it's not like the Dixie Chicks were trotting about the world preaching about the goodness of No Child Left Behind, the War on Terror, and fealty to the Republican Party and the President. They weren't being phony at all -- just speaking their minds.

On the other hand, we have Mrs. Osteen acting like a spoiled brat on first class on one hand while preaching Christian values, positive thinking, and taking your vitamins on the other hand.

The hypocrisy is tangible on so many levels, in so many places, and with so many people.

I couldn't agree more.

111: Why do many of the evangelical/charismatic types here defend Mrs. Osteen's antisocial behavior? Would they perhaps condemn the same behavior from say, a 20-something man of middle-eastern descent?

Because, for many, criticism of Mrs. Osteen is tantamount to attacking Christianity as a whole. I am an evangelical Christian (even though there are some who have called this into question without foundation) who holds Christians up to a higher standard than non-Christians and certainly will criticize anti-social behavior from those who so publicly promote their "positive thinking no matter what the circumstances" version of Christianity.

Your point is well-taken and, unfortunately, well-founded.

The difference Brad, is that it's not like the Dixie Chicks were trotting about the world preaching about the goodness of No Child Left Behind, the War on Terror, and fealty to the Republican Party and the President. They weren't being phony at all -- just speaking their minds.

On the other hand, we have Mrs. Osteen acting like a spoiled brat on first class on one hand while preaching Christian values, positive thinking, and taking your vitamins on the other hand.

The hypocrisy is tangible on so many levels, in so many places, and with so many people.

Hypocrisy: Someone who claims to be Catholic yet holds views that completely contradict their faith.

The above was meant to be a joke, and was meant to get the attention of a single member of this forum. LOL!

Hypocrisy: Someone who claims to be Catholic yet holds views that completely contradict their faith.

You have an ambiguous word here -- "their."

Do I contradict my own faith? Or do I contradict someone else's?

The Catholic church is very accepting of divergent viewpoints as to religion. I do affirm the nicene creed though. The rest is iceing on the cake.

Also, for what it's worth, I'm not a rich preacher. Nor am I the spouse of a rich preacher.

I'm just pulling your chain. Read my addendum.

Patrick, you added that addendum ex post facto, right?

Patrick, you added that addendum ex post facto, right?

Absolutely! :) Just like I do when I have to cover myself in a medical record. LOL!

Absolutely! :) Just like I do when I have to cover myself in a medical record. LOL!

Hiding behind that white little line of PLICO, are we? ;)

Whether its first class or not, a wet seat is not acceptable to me.

I'm sure there is more to this story than was told by the news. Who knows what the woman is even going through?
Perhaps she had a break down and reacted irrationally; whatever rational or irrational even is.
As far as what normal people do, I'm sure all of us have done some abnormal things from time to time.

That poor tortured woman... Asked to wipe her own seat while the flight attendants were helping others?

In a post 9/11 society, I have a hard time justifying someone tearing to the front of the plane and banging on the cockpit door until they have to be physically removed from the plane.

I don't think "all" or "most" of us have done anything of that nature at any point in our lives.

Wasn't my point but whatever.Your are right! She is one bad momma.
We need to have our elder women drag her into the streets then cut off her hair and beat her.
Then we can exile her.

I don't think she touched the cockpit door. I think she grabbed the attendants wrist at the most. Of course that is not acceptable behavior either.

If someone grabbed my wrist I'd probably have assaulted them. Oh wait..I have done that before and I got in trouble for it. It is much worse to assault someone for grabbing my wrist, at least thats what my principal told me.

Wasn't my point but whatever.Your are right! She is one bad momma.
We need to have our elder women drag her into the streets then cut off her hair and beat her.
Then we can exile her.

I don't think she touched the cockpit door. I think she grabbed the attendants wrist at the most. Of course that is not acceptable behavior either.

If someone grabbed my wrist I'd probably have assaulted them. Oh wait..I have done that before and I got in trouble for it. It is much worse to assault someone for grabbing my wrist, at least thats what my principal told me.


According to passenger accounts, the Osteens were sitting in first class. Soon after the plane's door was closed, the FBI says Victoria Osteen was removed following what Continental would call only a disturbance. The Osteens' spokesman confirms it involved a flight attendant, but that's all. However, one passenger tells Eyewitness News she was alerted to the front of the plane when she heard a commotion.

"She violently ran towards the cockpit, scaring everyone around her," said passenger Knicky Van Slyke. "Everyone was terrified about what was going on. And a bunch of flight attendants ran up and had to restrain her. She was banging on the door."

"Of the cockpit?" we asked.

"Yes."

Passengers say Victoria was removed first. Joel and the children followed. Meantime, everyone waited.

"They unloaded all the luggage to get their luggage and deplaned her, Joel, and the kids," said passenger Dawn Dixon.

Passenger Chad Clay said, "They kept telling us they were waiting on some passengers to find their luggage underneath in the plane, and it was going to be delayed for looking for that luggage."

According to the Transportation Security Administration, federal air marshals were never involved. Local authorities also know nothing of this event. Continental would not discuss details.

The Osteens' spokesman denies a physical altercation, denies Victoria ever banged on the cockpit door, and says she left on her own.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=3741989

Apparently, that's not what the folks on the plane told the press. Also, it's interesting that the spokesperson for the Osteens lied. Who are you going to believe? People with no vested interest in this event who simply saw it happen? Or would you rather believe the person's spokesperson after she did something extremely stupid and potentially criminal?

i don't choose to believe any of them, but I still say lets perform a public humiliation. Lets drag her out of her house.

I wonder what charges I'd be pressed with if I had stood up and punched the lady out when the attendants were trying to restrain her. Like the middle eastern guy in the Jodi FOster movie where her child dissapears.
That was actually the first thing to cross my mind when i began reading this thread.