We don't need a larger airport, people. Who wants to Oklahoma City? If we had a hub, I could see it, but we don't. With our number of departs every year, we can't support much more than 20 gates.

We don't need a larger airport, people. Who wants to Oklahoma City? If we had a hub, I could see it, but we don't. With our number of departs every year, we can't support much more than 20 gates.

See my post on the other airport thread.

It is the same as usual. Build it and they will come. We need to plan ahead before we get caught with out pants down. We are already a laughing stock because "size matters" and Will Rogers lacks it.

It's apparent you don't understand the condition of the industry these days. "Build it and they will come" won't work any longer these days. Not gonna happen. The days of airlines giving leeway to markets are long gone. OKC was ignored up to some extent by the airlines IMO back when it had a chance, but now air service is added only if the airlne can make a profit. And OKC won't become a hub and a second terminal isn't needed. Don't blame the airport trust for that, it isn't their fault. It's just that our traffic isn't that much. At least the marketing effort has been better than in past days, and it has produced some results. Even when our traffic has been growing back up to 2000 levels, airlines have been cutting back service or switching to smaller planes just to get load factors above 90%.

It's apparent you don't understand the condition of the industry these days. "Build it and they will come" won't work any longer these days. Not gonna happen. The days of airlines giving leeway to markets are long gone. OKC was ignored up to some extent by the airlines IMO back when it had a chance, but now air service is added only if the airlne can make a profit. And OKC won't become a hub and a second terminal isn't needed. Don't blame the airport trust for that, it isn't their fault. It's just that our traffic isn't that much. At least the marketing effort has been better than in past days, and it has produced some results. Even when our traffic has been growing back up to 2000 levels, airlines have been cutting back service or switching to smaller planes just to get load factors above 90%.

I have been around business since I was eight years old. I have more understanding than most people do. Plus, the nay sayer attitude will not work. We must keep a positive approach.

Just imagine if Mick Cornett had said "the NBA will never work in Oklahoma City," or Ron Norick had said "this MAPS thing will not work here." Then where would we be? Think about that... Especially before you tell someone you do not know what YOU think they do not know.

I agree with keeping a positive approach, but getting the NBA in town and getting more airline service are two completely different things. Having poor ticket sales in a particular market for a season or two is bad, but it isn't going to make the NBA want to pull out so easily. If an airline route on the other hand doesn't do that well for a long period of time, you can bet it's going to go. We almost lost the COX service to Newark, just that COX did a good thing by adjusting flight times and getting fares to reasonable levels.

Some things are easier to sell, some are harder. And airlines need to be convinced that new routes will do well, they're very picky about it these days. There are people who say that there are already too many hubs in this country, and I agree. It's why Pittsburgh and Columbus lost their hubs, as did DFW with DL. So I don't really see how a new hub can even be remotely possible at OKC, especially with DFW so close as is. On the other hand, a mini-hub like at IND and AUS is a possibility, but first we have to minimize the loss of passengers to DFW who drive down there to fly nonstop somewhere.

And I only said what I said because anyone who thinks a hub and a second terminal is possible at OKC needs to check the facts seriously.

"I agree with keeping a positive approach, but getting the NBA in town and getting more airline service are two completely different things."

As usual, you are missing the point.

Airlines are cutting back, not growing. Delta just closed a hub, they didn't create a new one. Airlines aren't looking for new hubs. If anything, they're looking to streamline their operations.

Oklahoma City is doing the right thing by improving its existing airport, not building a larger one. A larger airport would only sit empty, and be a waste of tax payer money.

Build it and they will come worked for the NBA, but part of that was luck. If Katrina hadn't come and given Oklahoma City a chance, I doubt the NBA would be courting us right now. Don't count on a similar event leading to Oklahoma City getting a hub.

OUMan and ChristianConservative

Like I said, it doesn't need to be built at once. All I am asking for is a plan. When Hartsfield was built Atlanta was smaler than OKC is now. They day they opened they didn't have 87 milion passengers. They grew to that number.

I just checked out the Hartsfield web site and they have their comprehensive plan on-line. Not only is it available, but so is their competition plan. I'm not sure if WRWA has either of these documents - on-line or not. Granted, the "build it and they will come" philosphy may or may not work but I know one thing is for sure "don't build it and they won't come" works evertime it is tried.

Let just say that by chance OKC does land a large corporate headquarters or two. Is the current building expandable? What if an airline does want to build a hub in OKC? Does all of the recent construction have to be scrapped? Will it take another 6 years to build 12 more gates? Who knows.

^^ATL grew to that number only because the city of Atlanta grew and ATL established itself as a hub with Eastern first, then Delta. And when Hartsfield opened it was smaller than our current airport terminal. In fact, it didn't even have a terminal, they used old hangars for a while as makeshift terminals.

If OKC lands a corporate headquarters or two and high-paying jobs which require frequent travelling are added, the current terminal can be easily expanded-just add the east concourse. Also, doesn't matter if new corporate HQ don't come here, if the traffic figures keep climbing, new gates will be required. But it's not going to happen overnight and we're not in dire need of gates.

You know, in the end the only thing that warrants adding of more new routes and gates is passenger traffic. If the traffic is there, the airlines will add routes and service and then the east concourse will be built.

Look at the current state of the airlne industry and any reasonable person would tell you that no airline is even thinking about new hubs in a market like ours. I hear people say "oh, what a shame, the new concourse isn't going to be built, this is not the way to get new air service, great way to show the airlines how important our market is." I can't help but laugh. Airlines don't really care how many gates an airport builds, if the passenger numbers aren't there, they won't add new service. You can tell airlines as much as you please about the new facilities and grand plans, they're going to ask just one question: is the new route feasible? If not, bye bye. It's as simple as that. There are cases where a route did better than expected, although this is more common in international service, and quite rare in a market like ours.

Like I already said, all the hub airports we have today didn't just build terminals and concourses and keep them running till they got hubs. Just doesn't work that way. The airline first announces its intention of expanding THEN the facilities get built. That's the way it was done at ATL, DFW, IAH, PHL and every other hub airport in the U.S. Also, most of these airports are in cities which had major railway stations.

And no, if traffic rose to record-breaking levels, the current terminal wouldn't need to be scrapped-that would be kind of absurd. This terminal can handle 757's and 767's. In fact, I'm sure the designers made provisions so that it could be expanded way more than 25 gates if need be.

It didn't take 6 years to build the west concourse. That was built in about a year's time. The east concourse is eight gates and it can be built in about the same time as well.

Can't really compare airports in terms of traffic, but to give you an idea, Austin-Bergstrom's passenger terminal has 25 gates. Passenger traffic there in 2005 amounted to over 7.6 milion passengers. Still, there are TWO gates left empty. And airlines there are managing just fine. Some are adding flights, some are actually increasing capacity with larger planes. Is the airport suddenly building an entire new concourse? No, that would be kind of stupid. But the officials are updating the master plan. Only thing is AUS's pax traffic growth rate is higher than ours. And the current terminal down there can be expanded to have 55 gates, says so on the airport's website.

Miami is a little different than Orlando. There is a lot of opportunity for connecting traffic to international destinations south, whereas Orlando is mostly O&D traffic.

Miami is around 44 pax a day in Q1 of this year, and Orlando was over 220 pax per day. Huge difference...but Orlando failed.

People that continue to make moronic statements of a hub in OKC know absolutely nothing of the airline industry. It is like no other. Every possible thing including a bird farting seems to impact it. OKC is doing it right...nice and slow. There is more room out there than you can imagine. Right now we are having to use the jetbridges for loading regional jets...versus full size jets. If things turn around, we move the RJs out ot the remote ramp or stack them in more and use the bridges for what they are meant for.

The airline industry will continue to be in a flux. Noting the early mention of Newark service...this has been cut to one flight a day from two.

What does the future hold? If airline execs and Wall Street have their way...more hookups similar to US Airways and America West. The current rumors include US Airways swallowing Northwest, and United taking on Continental. What does this mean for OKC? Probably a large impact.

I would expect US Airways to immediately shutter the Memphis hub. There would be a rush to consolidate the fleet, which would remove aircraft for expansion.

United/CO would be a little less intrusive on OKC with its lack of major exposure.

Delta is also in the process of downsizing Cincinnati...once the best connecting hub in the nation. OKC has lost 2 of 5 flights to that market...one that use to be mainline.

Hubs continue to vanish as airlines move to become more efficient.

Miami is around 44 pax a day in Q1 of this year, and Orlando was over 220 pax per day. Huge difference...but Orlando failed.


That alone should be telling enough, and people think we can support flights to MIA. Now if in fact an airline starts service there, there's an outside chance that some pax who usually take connecting Latin American/Mexico/South American flights might prefer heading to MIA and the market might develop, but IAH still rules when it comes to connecting South AmericanMexico/Caribbean flights for people headed out from OKC.

About the Newark flights, on weekdays I noticed there are still two flights, or am I looking at expired schedules?

If we start getting more mainliners here it will be great news. For now though, consider it good fortune that we still have decent mainliner service with CO, UA, WN, AA and DL. And NW brings in the DC 9's occasionally.

I always thought that the MEM hub was the next on the verge of going out, but what venture stated only confirms my suspicion.

So, they are going to miss their target date for the fourth time, coming in at least two months later than what Kranenburg just promised a few months ago. And even then, it sounds like they won't be done... Might just have the security check point completed.

And of course, no updates to the website since early July.


***********************


Air conditioned: Will Rogers preparing for holiday travelers as expansion nears completion
by Brian Brus
The Journal Record
10/10/2006

OKLAHOMA CITY – Passenger traffic through Will Rogers World Airport is expected to begin increasing this week even as the final touches are being put on a security checkpoint expansion, airport spokeswoman Karen Carney said Monday.

“We’re really looking to have it substantially complete by the first of November, just prior to Thanksgiving travel,” she said. “You can see it’s already starting to get busy. Fall break is one of our busiest times of the year with college students going home.”

The airport has been working through a $110 million, bond-supported expansion and renovation since 2002. The first phase focused on the front of the airport’s main terminal building and involved widening the access road and modifying the parking areas. The second phase has been mostly in the eastern end of the terminal where three gates, a security checkpoint and ticket counter have been installed.

A third phase involving a concourse extension has been designed but remains in the planning stage, depending on the airport’s traffic capacity needs.

The work has pushed Delta Airlines to temporary counters, Carney said. Airport officials hope to give those employees enough time to move back before holiday traffic kicks into high gear, if the company so chooses.

“We feel it’s critical that we have that second security checkpoint open. … It’s going to help alleviate a lot of congestion in the lobby as well as create more space for people to get through the checkpoint better,” she said.

The airport has reported passenger traffic continues to rise as it has for the last five years. The entire airline industry slumped after terrorist attacks in September 2001. Oklahoma City has experienced a steady improvement.

Carney said an increase in business travel also coincides with students taking time off from the school semester. After that, “our next big surge will be Thanksgiving and we’ll run at high capacity through New Year’s.”

“When we get into these time frames, with student luggage and people carrying Christmas presents back and forth, we see a lot of inexperienced travelers,” she said. “It really is a challenge with the new security rules, because they really can be complicated, and it slows down the screening process. … Our staff tries to help as much as they can, but it can get hectic.”

With DFW so close, I think it's foolish that we even discuss hub status here. Let's be realistic and try to make Will Rogers the best regional airport in the nation, and stop trying to be something we'll never be here. I'm not being negative, just realistic.

And we have a comprehensive plan in place. It's called the East Concourse. If the need for more gates comes up, we build the East Concourse.

The whole reason for the new airport design was that it was easier to expand. Additions to the east and west are easy money.

"With DFW so close, I think it's foolish that we even discuss hub status here."

DFW is over 200 miles south of here. That is NOT close. Besides, Will Rogers has a great deal of land and can easily become a hub. DFW is maxed out. (I have been there many times, so I should know) Plus...:ou

"With DFW so close, I think it's foolish that we even discuss hub status here."

DFW is over 200 miles south of here. That is NOT close. Besides, Will Rogers has a great deal of land and can easily become a hub. DFW is maxed out. (I have been there many times, so I should know) Plus...:ou

DFW maxed out? lol! They have plenty of available space with the infrastructure Delta left behind.

There is no reason whatsoever to be striving for hub status. Instead, we need to do exactly what the airport trust is doing: seek more direct flights to major destinations.

I can't think of any airline right now that is considering adding hubs. If anything, most are cutting back. And, if there is a need for hubs again, they're going to go back to the markets they left behind, not a new, unexplored, undeveloped market.

Add me to the list of those who do not believe that a "build it and they will come" philosophy is best when it comes to airport construction. As a matter of fact, it can have a downright negative effect.

Approximately 20 years ago St. Louis's principal commercial airport, Lambert International, was bustling. At the time it was the international HQ and principal hub for TWA. Lambert had 85 gates in all with about 70 of those being serviced by jet bridges since the overwhelming majority of flights were on mainliners including a fair share of jumbos such as L-1011's, DC-10's and 747's. A few years later, Southwest made a big push into St. Louis, sparking the airport authority to construct a temporary east terminal with 8 additional jet bridges. In 1988 the temporary east terminal was replaced with a brand new, state of the art structure replacing the 8 temporary gates with 16 permanent gates. Meanwhile, the powers that be in southwestern Illinois (representing the eastern quarter of the metro St. Louis population) felt that Lambert had reached maximum capacity and that a "reliever" airport should be built and serve a role not unlike that of Chicago Midway, or the southern California relievers such as Orange County, Burbank and Ontario. As a result, Mid America Airport went into service in 1997.

Well, we all know what happened to TWA - a series of bankruptcies was followed by an asset purchase by American Airlines. Seeing no need to have a hub in between its existing O'Hare and DFW outposts, American drastically reduced its St. Louis presence and has replaced most of its mainliners with RJ's - if I had to guess I'd say AA runs 80% of its STL flights with RJ's.

Today, Lambert is an absolute mess. Concourse C which during the 80's was the international concourse, is a virtual ghost town. It's jet bridges were configured to service jumbo jets and are now only able to service the occasional 757 that flies a regular route. Several of the jet bridges were dismantled about 2 years ago or cannibalized for parts for other still operational bridges in other areas of the airport. Suffice it to say that passengers arriving on the few flights that do still come into C are treated to a less than flattering first impression of STL. There are also vast stretches of Concourse D (TWA's main domestic concourse configured to service DC9's, 727's and the like) that are abandoned. Very few of the abandoned gates that passengers have to pass on their way to baggage claim are lit and most don't appear kept up at all. It's really quite embarassing and airport officials are only just now starting to address these problems. Meanwhile, over in SW Illinois, Mid America Airport sits virtually deserted. Allegiant Air flies occasional charters in and out. Other airlines (Great Plains, Pan Am) have attempted service there prior to fizzling out altogether. No major airline has ever even expressed a passing interest in utilizing the airport, and with the large scale availability of gates at Lambert, it's doubtful Mid America will ever enjoy any type of regular commercial service. Airlines looking to move into the St. Louis market or expand existing service have literally dozens of gates to choose from at Lambert.

The St. Louis example might be a bit of an extreme tale - clearly at the time of expansion and construction there was an articulable if now downright legitimate justification for airport expansion, however all it took was one event (in this case the downfall of TWA) to create a huge problem. Obviously nobody's advocating an expansion of Will Rogers to 85+ gates, however even a doubling of gates beyond the amount presently needed will create an image of a failed airport. So long as the space exists for expansion and there are plans on the books that can be utilized to build needed expansion, airlines will not overlook OKC as an expansion option. I think it's in Will Rogers's and OKC's best interest to focus on completing the ongoing phase of expansion and to concentrate on running a clean and efficient airport that gives the appearance of being busy but not overwhelmed. Obviously if all of the gates are constantly in use and airlines are clamoring for gate space, then there's justification for going ahead with the east concourse, but if not, I think it's best to perfect what you've got and hope that there's interest among the airlines to bring more and larger planes to OKC. A ghost town of an airport does nothing to impress out of town businesses who might be looking at your community - it makes you look like fools or has-beens.

In any event, I haven't flown into WRWA in over 12 years. I'm coming in the first week of November and I'm really looking forward to seeing the improvements. When I lived in OKC I really liked the "old" WRWA - it may have been small, but it was well run and I never felt like I had to get there an hour before my flight or fear missing it.

That terminal will be filled without a hub in no time. Besides, the best reason for Oklahoma City to be a hub is because of our size and potential. And another excellent reason...:ou

That terminal will be filled without a hub in no time.

With what traffic? Airlines are cutting flights, not expanding them.


Besides, the best reason for Oklahoma City to be a hub is because of our size and potential. And another excellent reason...:ou

Nothing against you personally, but there's not a lot of intelligence in that statement. A more intelligent statement would be as follows: "the best reason for Oklahoma City to be a hub is if an airline signs on and has an interest in expanding the Oklahoma City market." Building a 50+ gate terminal or larger, as you have suggested, at a time when airlines are cutting flights and reducing hubs, is completely absurd. The last thing we want is a Crossroads Mall -esque airport.

Add me to the list of those who do not believe that a "build it and they will come" philosophy is best when it comes to airport construction. As a matter of fact, it can have a downright negative effect.

Approximately 20 years ago St. Louis's principal commercial airport, Lambert International, was bustling. At the time it was the international HQ and principal hub for TWA. Lambert had 85 gates in all with about 70 of those being serviced by jet bridges since the overwhelming majority of flights were on mainliners including a fair share of jumbos such as L-1011's, DC-10's and 747's. A few years later, Southwest made a big push into St. Louis, sparking the airport authority to construct a temporary east terminal with 8 additional jet bridges. In 1988 the temporary east terminal was replaced with a brand new, state of the art structure replacing the 8 temporary gates with 16 permanent gates. Meanwhile, the powers that be in southwestern Illinois (representing the eastern quarter of the metro St. Louis population) felt that Lambert had reached maximum capacity and that a "reliever" airport should be built and serve a role not unlike that of Chicago Midway, or the southern California relievers such as Orange County, Burbank and Ontario. As a result, Mid America Airport went into service in 1997.

Well, we all know what happened to TWA - a series of bankruptcies was followed by an asset purchase by American Airlines. Seeing no need to have a hub in between its existing O'Hare and DFW outposts, American drastically reduced its St. Louis presence and has replaced most of its mainliners with RJ's - if I had to guess I'd say AA runs 80% of its STL flights with RJ's.

Today, Lambert is an absolute mess. Concourse C which during the 80's was the international concourse, is a virtual ghost town. It's jet bridges were configured to service jumbo jets and are now only able to service the occasional 757 that flies a regular route. Several of the jet bridges were dismantled about 2 years ago or cannibalized for parts for other still operational bridges in other areas of the airport. Suffice it to say that passengers arriving on the few flights that do still come into C are treated to a less than flattering first impression of STL. There are also vast stretches of Concourse D (TWA's main domestic concourse configured to service DC9's, 727's and the like) that are abandoned. Very few of the abandoned gates that passengers have to pass on their way to baggage claim are lit and most don't appear kept up at all. It's really quite embarassing and airport officials are only just now starting to address these problems. Meanwhile, over in SW Illinois, Mid America Airport sits virtually deserted. Allegiant Air flies occasional charters in and out. Other airlines (Great Plains, Pan Am) have attempted service there prior to fizzling out altogether. No major airline has ever even expressed a passing interest in utilizing the airport, and with the large scale availability of gates at Lambert, it's doubtful Mid America will ever enjoy any type of regular commercial service. Airlines looking to move into the St. Louis market or expand existing service have literally dozens of gates to choose from at Lambert.

The St. Louis example might be a bit of an extreme tale - clearly at the time of expansion and construction there was an articulable if now downright legitimate justification for airport expansion, however all it took was one event (in this case the downfall of TWA) to create a huge problem. Obviously nobody's advocating an expansion of Will Rogers to 85+ gates, however even a doubling of gates beyond the amount presently needed will create an image of a failed airport. So long as the space exists for expansion and there are plans on the books that can be utilized to build needed expansion, airlines will not overlook OKC as an expansion option. I think it's in Will Rogers's and OKC's best interest to focus on completing the ongoing phase of expansion and to concentrate on running a clean and efficient airport that gives the appearance of being busy but not overwhelmed. Obviously if all of the gates are constantly in use and airlines are clamoring for gate space, then there's justification for going ahead with the east concourse, but if not, I think it's best to perfect what you've got and hope that there's interest among the airlines to bring more and larger planes to OKC. A ghost town of an airport does nothing to impress out of town businesses who might be looking at your community - it makes you look like fools or has-beens.

In any event, I haven't flown into WRWA in over 12 years. I'm coming in the first week of November and I'm really looking forward to seeing the improvements. When I lived in OKC I really liked the "old" WRWA - it may have been small, but it was well run and I never felt like I had to get there an hour before my flight or fear missing it.

Now this is what I call an in depth, intelligent discussion on the issue.

With what traffic? Airlines are cutting flights, not expanding them.



Nothing against you personally, but there's not a lot of intelligence in that statement. A more intelligent statement would be as follows: "the best reason for Oklahoma City to be a hub is if an airline signs on and has an interest in expanding the Oklahoma City market." Building a 50+ gate terminal or larger, as you have suggested, at a time when airlines are cutting flights and reducing hubs, is completely absurd. The last thing we want is a Crossroads Mall -esque airport.

I grant. In time we will need 60 gates. However, the next smallest major airport of any city our size has 25 gates. We have 17. We need 30 now. Plus. "Crossraods Mallesque?" Funny. I have yet to see any armed gangbangers in the terminal at Will Rogers.

I grant. In time we will need 60 gates. However, the next smallest major airport of any city our size has 25 gates. We have 17. We need 30 now. Plus. "Crossraods Mallesque?" Funny. I have yet to see any armed gangbangers in the terminal at Will Rogers.

mranderson, we aren't even using all of the gates we have. Karen Karney has said that when the 3 new gates for Delta open, we'll have 2-3 gates that will be vacant. I think we need to be smart and fill those gates first before we consider any more construction at the airport.

We need 60 gates like we need a hole in our heads.

By Crossroads Mallesque I meant, a large structure with a lot of empty space. That's what a 30 gate airport would be at the present time.

If we built 30 gates now, we'd have 16 vacant gates and 14 filled gates. Pretty sad having more vacant gates than filled gates. What kind of message is that sending? That sounds like a failed plan to me.

Again, size of the city doesn't matter. Demand should dictate expansion, not city size.

^^We'll actually have 18 gates right now. One gate alone can handle upto 10 flights a day if need be, so dont even tell me "ok, one more gate, big difference." After DL/DL Conn move to the three new gates in the main terminal's airside, there will be three empty gates in the west concourse. The airport could easily handle 20-25 more flights with those gates, besides, I can't even count how many times venture and I have said airlines can and do often share gates.

The terminal is perfectly sized right now, 18 gates is more than enough. If it just so happens, the airport could add two-three more gates by building part of the east concourse (which is how the Greater Niagara Falls International terminal was built-they added a few gates at a time in the final stretch of the terminal expansion). The 60 gates you mentioned won't need to come until 15+ years from now, not at the rate traffic is growing.

The 25 gates at the next smallest airport you mention is Austin Bergstrom International, which also has a similar metro area population. It's obvious you haven't looked at its pax traffic or the kind of businesses the city has, or you wouldn't be even saying "we need 30 gates because the next smallest airport has 25." The airport has already handled 4.8 million passengers this year through July alone. That's a jump of 8% YTD over the same period last year. In effect, it has handled more passengers in the first 7 months of this year than OKC handled in all of 2005!

Compare that to OKC, where the YTD pax traffic from January through July ths year was a little over 2.1 million, an increase of only 2.06%. And with August's totals, it's 2.42 million. And you think we need a 30-gate terminal when AUS is handling more than double with 25. May I remind you that just adding gates won't do anything to get more passengers or bring more air service?

mranderson, we aren't even using all of the gates we have. Karen Karney has said that when the 3 new gates for Delta open, we'll have 2-3 gates that will be vacant. I think we need to be smart and fill those gates first before we consider any more construction at the airport.

We need 60 gates like we need a hole in our heads.

By Crossroads Mallesque I meant, a large structure with a lot of empty space. That's what a 30 gate airport would be at the present time.

If we built 30 gates now, we'd have 16 vacant gates and 14 filled gates. Pretty sad having more vacant gates than filled gates. What kind of message is that sending? That sounds like a failed plan to me.

Again, size of the city doesn't matter. Demand should dictate expansion, not city size.

The perfect reason to have more gates. It is called being prepared.

When this city grows, we will need the gates. Plus, "build it and they will come." We have proven that many times. It never hurts planning ahead.

Those 16 "empty" gates would be filled with the planes serving the cities we are not yet serving plus the other new airlines we need. No failed plan. It is visionary. Many cities build for the future. The additional gates would prompt the airport distrust to get off their tuchases and aggressively seek the much needed air service with REAL jets, not puddle jumpers.

Size DOES matter. It is an embarassment to have a large city and such a small major airport by gate size. It puts a very bad scar on the city. We have too many of those now as it is. Plus. Have you ever heard the expression "creating demand?"

^^First, building an airport concourse or terminal doesn't come cheap, it costs money, you can't build an entire terminal/concourse and "keep it ready" for airlines to come whenever they please. Doesn't work that way.

Second, only you seem to think it's an embarassment to have such a large city and not have a comparable airport by gate size. Repeating, number of gates is determined by passenger traffic, not by how large/small a city is. If you can't understand that, you won't understand why we have an 18 gate terminal instead of a 30 gate one. So far, judging from forums and people who have been in the new terminal, there have only been positive reviews and all passengers comment on how great the new terminal is. And you think it's a scar just because it has too few gates in your opinion.

You know, "creating demand" is easier said than done. The airport has a good marketing program that not only pitches the airport to airlines but also the city. It's definitely better when airlines take notice of the improvements in the city in recent years. But as the article posted here mentioned, it is difficult for airlines to add service when costs are so high. But in your world, that really doesn't matter does it?

mranderson, read OUman's comment above yours. It makes more sense than your comment.

Everyone that I know that comes to OKC says, "oh that's a mighty fine ballpark you have. One of the nicest we've ever seen." They don't say, "oh, you just have a minor league team. You suck."

Apply the above to Will Rogers World Airport.

That's not to say that we shouldn't try to grow. But at the same time, we need to be smart in the way we spend money as a city. Building "bridges that lead to nowhere" is absolutely ignorant.

The perfect reason to have more gates. It is called being prepared.

OKC is prepared. It will not take much time to build the second concourse if needed. The planning and drafting has already been done, and there's always the chance that whomever the tenants of the new concourse would be may want some specific changes made to the existing construction plans. It's much cheaper to build fresh than retrofit in most cases


When this city grows, we will need the gates.

It never hurts planning ahead.

Again, having the drawings in hand and being ready to break ground is planning ahead. It's practically a turnkey operation to expand the airport if and when the need presents itself. In the mean time, it appears that the airport is already more than well equipped to handle an increased load on its existing infrastructure. I'm sure that there is also a plan in place to construct an adequate temporary facility to service new flights during construction in the event the present infrastructure is not capable of handling the heavier loads.


Size DOES matter. It is an embarassment to have a large city and such a small major airport by gate size. It puts a very bad scar on the city.

Trust me - it's an even bigger embarassment to have passengers on inbound flights have their first impression of your city be a half-empty ghost town of an airport. Ask anyone who's flown into St. Louis or Pittsburgh lately what they think of those airports. Building another concourse when there doesn't exist a present or even reasonably forseeable need for one makes your community look like Miss Haversham.

keep in mind that mranderson says he's going to run for our city council in the future

keep in mind that mranderson says he's going to run for our city council in the future
:bow: :lol2:

keep in mind that mranderson says he's going to run for our city council in the future

Hmm. I'm gonna resist commenting on that for now.

Hmm. I'm gonna resist commenting on that for now.

Smart man!

Just to be clear, my frustration is not that we won't be adding the east concourse at this point but with the constant delays in completing the rest of the main terminal, 2nd security point, extra bagage claim, etc.

This part has been delayed countless times, always with a new promise that in turn goes unmet.

The present staff has done a terrible job communicating all this with the public -- only providing updates when we or the press harrasses them.

And things have not improved with the new director; in fact, in his only interview in his first year on the job, he said he was concentrating on getting the current construction done by September, which has now come and gone.

I agree that we are in a good postion to add new gates as needed but I continue to have grave concerns about the airport leadership.

^Yeah, I agree with you that updating the airport website needs to be done on a regular basis and needs to be consistent. Not keeping an up-to-date airport website isn't good especially for people out of state.

On the other hand, about the main terminal's east side: I recall that there were some issues that needed to be addressed after the attacks due to security concerns and so the interior of the new main terminal needed some changes in the plans, and that's maybe why this final stage in Phase II is taking much longer than expected. But there should be updates on this, I'll agree.

*nm*

This is a quote from Kranenburg this past July:


By 2005, the airport construction was pretty much under control. We only had a few issues that we were working out with the engineer and contractor to try to resolve. We are scheduled to be completed by September of this year. We want to make sure we come in on time.

This September date was after they updated the website to say August (which it still says, no matter that is two months passed) after pushing back the date 2-3 times, each time using excuses about security changes.


There seems to be absolutely zero accountability here and does not exactly inspire confidence in the rest of their dealings.

Just to be clear, my frustration is not that we won't be adding the east concourse at this point but with the constant delays in completing the rest of the main terminal, 2nd security point, extra bagage claim, etc.

This part has been delayed countless times, always with a new promise that in turn goes unmet.

The present staff has done a terrible job communicating all this with the public -- only providing updates when we or the press harrasses them.

And things have not improved with the new director; in fact, in his only interview in his first year on the job, he said he was concentrating on getting the current construction done by September, which has now come and gone.

I agree that we are in a good postion to add new gates as needed but I continue to have grave concerns about the airport leadership.

Partly, you'd have to fault the contractor. Contractors are notorious for delays, and at this point, the completion of the project is really out of the hands of the trust. The best solution to the problem is to choose a contractor next time that can stick by his word.

Just heard that the new gates and 2nd security check point (and I assume the rest of the remaining expansion space) will be open tomorrow.

As I mentioned on another thread, I was through there on Sunday and everything looked close but there was still a wall separating the new part of the gate area and the new baggage claim and ticket counters were roped off.

My guess is that they'll be some on-going finish work for a little while longer.

So, as an out-of-towner, what are your thoughts about the airport in general?

I absolutely love the new design.

I know some initially thought the bold design of native slate, stainless steel and bright green signage was a bit too much, but I think it really works. And I also like the city is showing some self-confidence by going with something that is a little risky and unique.

Plus, the very high ceiling heights and lots of natural light make a big difference. Makes the place look much bigger than it is and really improves first impressions.


*************************


Will Rogers World Airport renovations complete
By The Associated Press

City officials celebrated the completion of a five-year, $110 million expansion and renovation to the Will Rogers World Airport, where a new terminal is scheduled to open on Tuesday.

With new additions like a second security checkpoint and new baggage-handling system, travelers are expected to see a more efficient system at the airport.

Larry Donelson, 58, an Ohio businessman who passes through Oklahoma City at least once a month, said he noticed the changes.

"It seems really nice ... it's beautiful and efficient," Donelson said. "It's a lot different."

Lance Benham, president and CEO of the Benham Companies, architects and engineers on the project, said it will "give everyone who travels by air a firsthand look at how Oklahoma City has progressed and prospered."

"The terminal will be a gateway, and it will show our progress and our determination to become a world class airport and destination city."

Mayor Mick Cornett said the air terminal, with stone-accented walls designed to provide a rustic feel, reflects the spirit of Oklahoma and will help benefit commerce in the area.

The project, funded by revenue bonds, began in 2001 and increased the overall size of the airport by about 283,000 square feet.

"For the past couple of years passengers have seen spectacular improvements as a result of the terminal renovation project," said airport director Mark Kranenburg. "The completion of this phase of the project just adds more to what is already an outstanding facility."

Other added features are larger departure lounges; new flight information displays, including two jumbo screens available to passengers immediately after passing through security checkpoints; wireless Internet access; new escalators and elevators; expanded ticketing lobby and landscaping and interior designs.

build the casinos, and the air traffic will arrive in droves. no reason not to get this approved in a zoned area along the canal for the impending movement of I-40. we desparately need to get this done ASAP.

I will be the first to say the current terminal is a UNIVERSE away from what it replaced, but something needs to be done to keep on top of the small stuff to keep this new jewel from looking run down in months...

1. I was in one of the restrooms next to baggage claim
and noticed that the toilet had seperated from the wall and it was clear that mold had collected in the gap....not the look of a NEW airport.

2. Whoever picked all the general light fixtures needs to be the one to get a lift and put a vacuum snoot in them to get all the bugs out.....every one of them has a nice collection of dead bugs...and these are inside the airport, not out....

3. Walls are scuffed everywhere it seems

4. Not a maintenance issue, but the people mover looks very low end, just like before the remodel. Plasma screens and a little higher end wall treatments with nice advertising would have provided a more high end appearance.....

Overall, I'm very pleased with the look, but with some tiny detailing, they could have something knocked out of the park....the two airports in my opinion that get the small stuff right are Bethlehem, PA and Norfolk, VA....those airports are absolutely spotless......
and both have remodels over a decade old.....

^^Email the airport directly with these observations. They'll definitely jump on this stuff especially as the terminal expansion/renovation has just been completed.

Did anyone else see this past week that Monday, Nov 20th is Karen Carney's last day? She is moving to a similar position in the private sector.

NewsOK.com | Powered by The Oklahoman and NEWS 9 (http://www.newsok.com/article/keyword/2969890/)

I wish her well and feel the airport will only benefit from this change.

Don't know if you guys saw this, but the airport authority hired a new PR person.

The WRWA website is now being updated with news releases on a regular basis but parts of that site are still woefully out of date, particularly the airport guide which still shows the terminal under construction and doesn't have the all the current gates, ticket counters, baggage claims, etc.

I just send an email to Jennifer congratulating her on the appointment and thanking her for the timely news updates. Also mentioned the airport guide, so hopely that will be changed sometime soon.

*******************

3/16/2007
Department of Airports Names New PR, Marketing Manager
WILL ROGERS WORLD AIRPORT (March 16, 2007) – Jennifer James McCollum, APR, is the new Public Information and Marketing Manager for the City of Oklahoma City Department of Airports. McCollum previously served the City of Oklahoma City Utilities in the same role.

McCollum will be responsible for developing and managing a variety of programs for Will Rogers World Airport and two general aviation airports, Wiley Post and C.E. Page. Her responsibilities include researching, planning and conducting strategic public relations and marketing campaigns; recruiting passenger and air cargo service; airport volunteer programs; managing the airport’s Web site and serving as spokesperson for the Department.

McCollum began her career as a print journalist, and over the last 17 years, has held key public relations positions in local, state and federal government including serving in the Office of Public Affairs at Tinker Air Force Base during the Gulf War and Base Realignment and Closure. She spent five years as Director of Public Relations for the State Arts Council of Oklahoma.

McCollum graduated in 1989 from Southern Nazarene University with a Bachelor’s degree in political science and speech communication, and has completed 24 hours of graduate work in English and literature from OU and UCO. She has won several awards throughout her career including commendations from the Air Force Materiel Command and U.S. Department of Energy, a $5,000 marketing award from Ford Motor Company, and in 2003, the 40 Under 40 award from OKC Business. She recently received a writing award from the Oklahoma Society of Professional Journalists. A longtime member of PRSA, in 2006, she earned her Accreditation in Public Relations (APR).

McCollum lives in Oklahoma City and is married to Robert McCollum. They have two children, Juliette, 9 and Sullivan, 19 months.

Here's Jennifer's prompt and enthusiastic response to my email:


Thanks for writing.

I completely agree about the guide and the photos. The Web site needs a great deal of work. My challenge is working with the current design and trying to navigate through construction that is not very user-friendly (for me, anyway). I've had several discussions with Mark about the Web site, and we have several changes in the works, but they are very costly and are going to take time. I am going on maternity leave in about eight weeks, and so we've decided to hold off on major changes until I return. Having said that, the vendor is currently updating the Airport Guide. I thought he had already completed all that, but I'll follow up with him. Some of the changes you can expect in the future are a photo of the week feature, which will change every seven days (on the home page); an airport blog that Mark and I will primarily author (we'll have some guest bloggers on occasion); and a photo gallery, so we can showcase the new terminal. Also, I'd like to do away with the scrolling divs. They are annoying to me. I wish all of this was already completed. I think the Web site is so critical to public information and marketing efforts, and should be regarded as a weekly publication, if not daily.

Anyway, thank you for writing and for sharing your concerns -- and thanks for noticing the changes to the site. I hate it that I am so limited in what I can do right now, but it will get better - hopefully by mid-fall.

When I find out about the airport guide updates, I'll email you again.

Thanks, again.
Sincerely, jen

Sounds like Jennifer is the right person for the job.

Yep.

And to be fair, it seems Mark Kranenburg is doing a good job thus far.

We've added several non-stop flights and I know he's done a lot to bring other types of revenue into the airport authority.

I agree, Malibu.