I know we have talked about this topic before on a similar note. Those illegal, pesky signs that dot our roadways more and more each day along the public right of ways and medians. Political signs, or those advertising cheap tacky businesses have no place in our growing city. These are illegal and violate several city ordinances.

Would anyone be willing to help create or volunteer a task force and we can all do a sweep sometimes at assigned areas and clean these up? I know the city would be on board with this as well as OKC Beautiful. Please respond if you'd be interested in helping.

I would defiantly be interested inhelping if we can get a big enough group on board. Anything to improve the quality of our beautiful city:)

I know we have talked about this topic before on a similar note. Those illegal, pesky signs that dot our roadways more and more each day along the public right of ways and medians. Political signs, or those advertising cheap tacky businesses have no place in our growing city. These are illegal and violate several city ordinances.

Would anyone be willing to help create or volunteer a task force and we can all do a sweep sometimes at assigned areas and clean these up? I know the city would be on board with this as well as OKC Beautiful. Please respond if you'd be interested in helping.
I'm with you, metro. Count me in. I am also getting tired of seeing all of the illegal signs on the city right-of-way. As a matter of fact, I saw a city inspector one morning tearing down "garage sale" signs and other signs that were posted in the city right-of-way.

It's kind of funny watching these people putting these signs out.....they look around to see if anybody is watching, mainly because they know what they are doing is illegal. Then they put the sign up and actually run back to their vehicles.

Thanks for posting this Metro. My suggestion is to work in teams of three out of a pickup and start about 1:00 AM on a Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday morning. The streets would be relatively clear that time of day and a lot safer and easier to clean up. An intersection could be easily cleaned up in a couple of minutes by the two foot soldiers, who pile the nasty signs in the back of the pickup, jump in the cab and head off to the next intersection. I think that four teams could almost cover the City by 6:00 AM when we could meet for breakfast and photos of the booty.

I wonder if it would be a good idea to advise the Police in advance?

I was wondering the same thing ODG... what if a business owner became upset? I know quite a few corner strip malls who put their own little cardboards signs out in front of their stores ... can you imagine.. a restaurant owner with a meat cleaver chasing after us all?

LOL, metro, you go first, check it out and clear the way - just kidding, I would love to help.

Wait, did you say 1:00am??

I was wondering the same thing ODG... what if a business owner became upset? I know quite a few corner strip malls who put their own little cardboards signs out in front of their stores ... can you imagine.. a restaurant owner with a meat cleaver chasing after us all?

LOL, metro, you go first, check it out and clear the way - just kidding, I would love to help.

Only signs in the Public-Right-Of-Way would be removed. It is very easy to tell illegally placed signs from legitimate ones. It doesn't matter if it is in front of your own business, if it is in the Public-Right-Of-Way, it is illegal. But there is very little of that kind of problem. Most of the problem is at intersections.


Wait, did you say 1:00am??

Much earlier than that and traffic could be a real problem and we might get hasseled by the Police for dashing across streets and being stopped near an intersection and backing up traffic. Most of these signs are put out the middle of the night and IMO, that would be the best time to remove them as well. Sleep is over-rated anyhow.

Also, I have a few friends that I might be able to get interested in a vigilante art project like this. If we can get about a half dozen or so folks from OKCTalk, I think I could get about four others to join in.

I've advised our campaign team not to litter.

Yes, and political season is upon us and they are already getting nasty. When I ran for office, I didn't use those tacky little illegal signs, of all people a lawmaker/politician should know better. Anyhow yes most people consider those pesky signs in front of their own business okay although most of the time it is still public right of way or city easements as well as those type of signs are still illegal anyways no matter where they are. Let's get this task force going, like someone said I advise about 3 per pickup truck. I'll talk to the city and others and address any concerns and get back with all interested parties. Let's do this.

Count me out! I like those little signs.

Just to be sure what you will be picking up, will it be only the small campaign-like signs that are on ROWs, or will it be all advertising including those benches with advertising on them that sit on the ROWs, and how about those realtor signs that happen to be sitting on ROW?

Oh, over on 36th, I saw a sign that advertises a meeting of the residents of the area---Go get it! LOL

This seems to be a thread where it is just a sight nuisance you want to eradicate, but it would seem that public safety being a factor, while you are at it, you might pull some of the trees that have been planted too close to the road and block the view of motorists as they try to come out onto a busy street.

I am out-of-town and have been busy, but I HAD to take a second to respond to this.....I hate the commercial advertising for private business. However, the political signs are a sign of a thriving democracy and we shouldn't be bitching about "littering." In fact, while I disagree with the war in Iraq, we have troops dying everyday to help bring some semblance of democracy to that country. There are countries that would give ANYTHING to be able to stick a political campaign sign in the street. Are they pretty? No. Does that matter? Only if we are so comfortably encased in our day-to-day existence in OKC, Middle America, USA that we forget what those signs represent. They say there is a grassroots effort to elect a candidate who may, or may not support the status quo - some radically different than how I, you, and most of our neighbors might believe. They are symbols of defiance to the millions of dollars poured and "littered" into our living rooms by entrenched political power. To worry about the "littering" aspect of this is, to me, not stopping to think about the larger symbolism of an active democracy that they represent. The laws regarding this are loosely enforced - as they SHOULD BE. After the election, they get tough on the fines - that's good. Of all the things this group could get together to do, the good this forum could do, organizing into after-dark anti-political sign vigilantes should be FAR down the list, in my opinion.

Democracy requires tolerance for old American traditions that speak a very real truth about who we are as a people. Yes, it would be nice if they were just in front yards, but since the days of the American revolution, posting political bills on poles and signs in the roadways have been a part of the political landscape that says, "VOTE FOR ME, for my IDEA," but they should be a reminder that we have a CHOICE, that democracy is alive - and well - in America. And that includes corners like NW 63rd and May Avenue in Oklahoma City, USA.

I would urge those who see this as such an awful thing to look around the world, think of the context of what those signs represent and rethink your position.

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I think you guys are blowing this out of proportion. I understand and can respect your opinions on the campaign signs. Our main concern is the private business signs you mentioned, such as Mattresses $99 or Lawn Mowing, etc. Stuff like that. I was just saying in addition to the thousands of these private business signs in medians and PRW, campaign signs will be dotting them as well making it even more unsightly. You definitely don't see this problem anywhere else more than here. Definitely not Seattle, Austin, Portland, etc. If we're going to start competing with cities like this, we got to work on our beautification.

Good try at discrediting our thoughts (assuming you mean whiterranger and me.), but I think it is Metro who has blown the perceived problem way out of proportion. Do you by chance have a sign shop and expect to sell more signs if the ones that are posted are taken?

No. I work for a non-profit. And don't you think if a "customer" of a sign shop got tired of people pulling their signs up that they would quit buying them rather than buying more?? Sounds like it may be the other way around, do you own a sign shop and are worried about losing business? This is a problem that the city council is even starting to address as a major problem.

Anyhow back to topic. My thread was to see who IS up to the task of possibly removing these? Who's in?

ODG? Keith? Immortal?

Thanks Metro, I'm available. Once a date and time is set, I will try to enlist the help of a few friends.

As far as the over-the-top posts about the destruction of democracy as we know it; jeeze guys, lighten up. It's this simple; placing any sign in the public right of way or on a utility pole is prohibited by OKC City Ordinances. There is a democratic process of establishing and enforcing laws. Our country is founded on it. How can you possibly object to people suggesting that laws prohibinting sign litter should be enforced and then taking a proactive approach to the enforcement?

I have removed hundreds of these trashy signs over many years and I am aware of dozens of other people around OKC that have done the same. Our City Council has made some effort to clean this mess up, but they never get it completely done. Perhaps a few citizens can make the difference.

BTW, there is a saying in political campaigning:
"Signs in yards vote; signs at intersections don't."
I don't like to see all those political signs either, but I don't ever pull them up unless I have worked for the campaign and am out cleaning up after the election. Every campaign I have ever worked on doesn't want to just wholesale put signs on the roadside, but there is usually one candidate that aparently thinks they can get a few votes that way and then there goes the neighborhood and every other candidate starts doing the same thing.

As far as the over-the-top posts about the destruction of democracy as we know it; jeeze guys, lighten up. It's this simple; placing any sign in the public right of way or on a utility pole is prohibited by OKC City Ordinances.

ODG, Nothing personal, but I am a bit offended that you referred to my post and my feelings regarding the political signs as, "over the top posts about the destruction of democracy," and asking me to lighten up.

Was my post too "quaint" and "apple pie" for you? I meant it. With all my heart I meant it.

I think, frankly, the over-the-top posts are those who are all broken up over campaign signs and calling it, "littering" and bragging they don't use them in THEIR campaigns. To me, it's an insult to those who have died to give us the freedom to put those damn signs up. As for, "It's this simple; placing any sign in the public right of way or on a utility pole is prohibited by OKC City Ordinances," all I can say is that I am perplexed at this uniquely Midwestern concern over this as a "problem." Have you ever been to Chicago, NYC, Philly during a campaign season? Signs EVERYWHERE. One man's "ugly" is another man's symbol of freedom to fight for every vote and idea.

As for the ordinance....this has been fought in other states and truth be told, those ordinances concerning this type of thing aren't worth the paper they are printed on. The constitution of the United States trumps an OKC city ordinance. The one case from another state that almost went all the way to SCOTUS was a clear statement from the court that public right of ways, poles, etc. were owned by the people of the community and could be used in the free exercise of the democratic process. Unanimously, the Supreme Court refused to hear the case which upheld the lower court decision.

Again, nothing personal, but those who feel as strongly as you do about the "litter" of campaign signs can shove that ordinance where the sunshine of free political expression doesn't shine. And no, that's not up the *ss, but North Korea, China, Zimbabwe, Cuba on and on.

"Jeeze guys, lighten up," is my advice back to you. To me, it's petty as hell to worry about "beautification" and a little inconvenience at election time over what those signs represent. To me, THAT'S what is "over-the-top" and it shows how some take too many things in this great country for granted.

Still to cheesy? Sorry - it's the g&dda*mn truth.

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As for the ordinance....this has been fought in other states and truth be told, those ordinances concerning this type of thing aren't worth the paper they are printed on. The constitution of the United States trumps an OKC city ordinance.

Thanks writerranger, I would appreciate seeing some documentation on that, or at least some links to where that information can be looked at.

As for the other points you were trying to make in your post, let's just agree to disagree. OK?

ODG,

I'm sorry my message was so harsh. I am not feeling well today. I should learn when I feel this way to stay away from any forum. I'm in Houston getting my 92 year-old aunt moved to a nursing home in Oklahoma City and my brain is fried. I came here to the forum to take a break relax and instead (I just read my last post again) I was just plain mean. It's no real excuse because I didn't have to sign-on, but it's just a tough time right now. I have that information back in Oklahoma City in hard-copy form, I'll scan the documents when I get back and send them to you. Again, I'm really sorry.

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Our main concern is the private business signs you mentioned, such as Mattresses $99 or Lawn Mowing, etc. Stuff like that.

Is it just me or does writeranger keep missing this part of our post!! We're not talking so much about the political signs as we are the private business signs in the public ROW.

I think we have discussed this long enough to attract all those that are interested in going forward Metro. Perhaps a poll with four to six suggested days/times might be a way to proceed. I have already suggested mid-week in the wee hours, but of course there are other options; your call.

I agree ODG. The interested parties have spoken, everyone else just wants to chime in their two cents. My purpose was to see who IS interested. Let's wait another day for anyone who was tied up with this weekends Jazz or Film festival to have a chance, and then we'll move this project forward.

I tried to help by telling you I am not interested; I figured you would want to know who was not interested as well as those who are interested.

I am back in Oklahoma City tonight. Metro, Did you see my post of apology? Have you any empathy?

--

Is it just me or does writeranger keep missing this part of our post!! We're not talking so much about the political signs as we are the private business signs in the public ROW.

I agree with ODG that you just need to move forward with what you want to do. But I wasn't going to let this slip by. May I quote your own post BEFORE I posted my views?

Yes, and political season is upon us and they are already getting nasty. When I ran for office, I didn't use those tacky little illegal signs, of all people a lawmaker/politician should know better. Anyhow yes most people consider those pesky signs in front of their own business okay although most of the time it is still public right of way or city easements as well as those type of signs are still illegal anyways no matter where they are.

Later, Metro writes:

We're not talking so much about the political signs as we are the private business signs in the public ROW.

But I am somehow misinterpreting you?

As I said, I responded harshly to Old Downtown Guy (who I have grown to respect very much) and apologized. But since you had to go on and post the misinformation above - I thought I would correct the record. Those "missing the point" posts were only in response to what YOU wrote in your own words. You only changed your tune later.

Of all the good you could be doing....and you're organizing for this? My opinion is that's odd....but go for it! You have as much right to support it as I do to oppose it. Just remember as you pull up those political signs the MILLIONS in China, North Korea, Cuba, etc. who would dearly love to put a sign in the street and violate a silly "city ordinance" in the name of free political expression.

Of all the good you could be doing....and you're organizing for this? My opinion is that's odd....but go for it! You have as much right to support it as I do to oppose it. Just remember as you pull up those political signs the MILLIONS in China, North Korea, Cuba, etc. who would dearly love to put a sign in the street and violate a silly "city ordinance" in the name of free political expression.

It appears that all communication is open to interpretation. I don't think I mentioned political signs except in the post-election context, and I thought that metro was saying that he didn't approve of them either, but that they were not the target of our project. So in the interest of clarity; the signs that I will be removing during this little outing are the commercial advertising plastic and paper ones about 18" wide and 12" high attached to a metal wire frame or wood stake that are placed near the street and particularly in clusters around intersections that advertise health insurance, Christian singles groups, lawn mowing and all manner of other products and services. I will also remove cardboard boxes and other make-shift signs advertising garage sales, free pets, etc.

Regarding political signs; they are just as illegal when placed in the public r-o-w as any other sign and I don’t like seeing them there. I think their use along streets is a waste of campaign money and they should only be placed in legal locations on private property. Unfortunately, that is not the common practice in Oklahoma City. Hopefully, our effort may bring a little extra attention to this issue of public appearance and more discussion can be had by the political community. I will mention it to the candidates that I support and perhaps at some point in the future, candidates will begin to make public statements early in their campaigns regarding their policy about these signs and progress can be made toward eliminating their improper placement.

writerranger, I have very strong and long considered views about freedom of expression around the world, including the US and look forward to discussing them on this forum in the future, I just don't see this thread as being the place and time IMO.

I saw this thread a bit late, but would like to include my thoughts on the matter -especially since I design custom electrical signs for a living.

First, those tiny little temporary signs -no matter what they're advertising- are garbage. Non-functional garbage. Most are illegible at any significant driving distance. They are basically "blink-and-you-miss-it" trash signage. Such garbage should not be installed at all.

Many of those temporary signs posted around OKC (as well as other cities in our state) are in clear violation of the local sign ordinance. Some are placed in the ROW of a street or highway. Many others are placed in the utility easement. It seems kind of rare to find those little Coroplast signs and banners installed within the business' property line.

A lot of sign ordiances have additional limits on what kind of signs and how many can be installed within the property limits of a business. A temp sign is not automatically legal just by placing it away from the road.

Some sign ordinances are poorly designed, but many have improving driver safety as a common goal. I get pretty angry when some jerk sticks a couple banners right up on a street corner and blocks the sight triangle of traffic. That act could get someone killed in a car accident.

My feeling is the people putting up such signs should be given a very short amount of time to remove them or face a fairly expensive fine that can't even be thrown out by a judge. Simple as that. The punishment should be akin to a pricey littering fine.

I think it is risky to have a grass-roots effort put together in removing illegally placed temporary signs. Angry confrontations, fist fights or even worse can result.

My suggestion: form a grass-roots effort, but take photos and report the matter to the city. Make noise about it. If you see people putting up yard sale signs illegally on telephone poles or out in highway medians take pictures of them doing it if you can. Get those people in trouble -in a legal manner.

I love signs and believe they are an important ingredient in what gives a city its electrical life and personality. But the sign making profession has been infected with lots of no-talent idiots just looking to make a fast buck. There are few, if any skill requirements for someone to get a job making signs -or even start up a sign making shop. These vinyl-only sign making shops seem to multiply like a virus -and they churn out the same ugly, font murdered garbage.

There are so many of these kinds of vinyl-only businesses that many full service custom sign companies have stopped selling banners and other kinds of temporary signs to people. There's no profit in it. It's not worth the trouble. In the end, the customer needing a banner gets a product of increasingly lower quality. Professional sign designers have better things to do.

Then there's even a lot of hinky stuff happening in the permanent electrical sign business. Oklahoma has some pretty lax rules on what it takes to manufacture an electrical sign. Not many cities require UL Listed electronics and construction in an electrical sign. OTOH, Texas requires any sign manufacturer doing business of any kind there to qualify for a state contractor's license. Those aren't easy to aquire. Your shop must be UL, you must have at least one licensed master electrician on staff -and all others doing anything with electrical work must have a minimum journeyman's electricians license. Continuing education classes are also required.

The idea behind those strict contractors licenses is to weed out the hacks in our business and improve safety for the professionals in our business.

There's nothing quite like climbing into a poorly constructed sign cabinet on a service call and having it shock the crud out of you. Some of these things have bare, live wires just hanging loose!

The sign industry has a decent number of professionals who do great quality work and actually improve the look of a city. But the hacks reverse that progress. They ugly up things.

Bad signage accumulates. Enough ugly looking signs and signs that have fallen into disrepair can help make an entire area of town look run down. It contributes to blight. I also believe a lot of those cluttery, little temporary signs few can even read from the roadway adds further to the problem.

It is highly important for store owners to project good "store front personality". Having a bunch of little banners and such out by the road does nothing to project that.

Thanks for the post BobbyH. Perhaps the responsible members of the sign industry sould make an effort to raise the quality bar by reporting shoddy work to The City or suggesting higher standards be written into ordinances.

Well this thread deteriorated rather quickly.. it appears that an effort to clean up the unsightly signs littering our streets has turned ugly.. but good points have been made on both sides of the argument.. actually, I'm probably as guilty as the rest as I use Realtor signs to advertise properties for sale.

I see Metros point that he wants to help clean up the city... and I see the other sides where people want to express themselves... is there a middle ground?

Writerranger, I hope your aunt is settled.. and I appreciate your posts and concilitory efforts. You are a valued member on this board.

I would be interested in helping pick up signs.

At that time of the night the paper deliverly people are out and about to.

Perhaps the responsible members of the sign industry sould make an effort to raise the quality bar by reporting shoddy work to The City or suggesting higher standards be written into ordinances.

We try...at least when we are allowed to be included in the design of any new sign ordinance. But any sign ordinance is worthless without code enforcement. Often when we complain about code violations our complaints are often met with some resistance. The officials only think we're biased and trying to make things hard for our competitors.

As a possible solution, I feel small political signs, real estate yard signs, yard sale signs and other temporary displays are best kept within residential areas. Honestly, that is the only area where traffic is slow enough and ROW is narrow enough for any of these signs to be functionally readable. They just aren't effective when placed along a commercial street with wider ROW and higher speed traffic. This is why we have things like large, neon-encrusted pylon signs and billboards.

There still must be some control on how such tempoary signs are displayed, even if they are limited to residential areas with slow speed limits.

Political signs get a lot of attention in this. However, many communities require such temporary signs to removed within 24 hours after the election is held, or the candidate may face some fines. That kind of thing is not being applied to yard sale signs and temporary signs some businesses place out next to the roadway.

I agree Bobby H. Some well said points. I think in the BEST INTEREST OF PUBLIC AND OKCTALK MEMBER SAFETY due to strong opposing opinions, we alter our approach. I'll PM all parties who have expressed their interest and we'll move on from there. Thanks to all who want to clean up our great city that is becoming heavily blighted by these signs.

I am wondering where the signs have heavily blighted the area; I drove down Reno from Pott County to Portland where I went north, and I saw a very very few of the signs of almost any type.

Or did youall make a midnight run last night?

Writerranger, I hope your aunt is settled.. and I appreciate your posts and concilitory efforts. You are a valued member on this board.

How sweet and thank you for asking. Moving my 92 year-old aunt from Houston to OKC has been quite an experience. We got caught at Hobby and was stuck during the airport closure - what a flood! But, we finally made it to OKC and she's slowly adjusting. She had lived in the same house for 52 of her 92 years. It was hard on her (and me!) but it's all for the best. She's doing well now, I'm getting back in the groove and I thank you for your very nice post. Your comments were very kind and I thought it was sweet of you to ask about what was a very trying situation. You are too sweet. :Smiley105

Just FYI, the owner of land with a utility easement still retains a lot of rights on that land, just no say as to where the utility lines go, or whether or not the city can dig on their land. One of that owner's rights is to make decisions regarding which political signs get to be in his yard -- unless the signs violate some sort of other ordinance or covenant.

Yes, that's right Midtowner... I know a lot of HOA's do have covenants restricting commercial advertising.. but some will usually allow political signs..much of that depends on how active the homeowners are and what they will and won't allow.

writeranger... I'm glad to have you back and I'm hoping your aunt will get used to her new environment. 52 years! She must be a bit bewildered! Is she in a nursing home or staying with you? I thought I had read that she was going to a retirement home but I can't recall. She'll probably need a lot of compassion right now.. it must be difficult on everyone. Best wishes to your family.

She is very lucky to have you to take care of her.

One of that owner's rights is to make decisions regarding which political signs get to be in his yard -- unless the signs violate some sort of other ordinance or covenant.

Most sign ordinances, such as the one in Oklahoma City, do indeed outlaw commercial signs posted in or hanging over the line into the utility easement.

I hope everyone's cleaning groups went well. I know I'll get some flack for this but it's okay. I believe in improving the quality of life in OKC and in beautification efforts.

It looks like we are making some progress with the politicians this year. I've spoken directly with candidates and their staff and specifically addressed OKC's sign ordinances for signs in the public right of way. Most Candidates and staff's I've talked with are willing to remove any signs in public right of ways. (Andrew Rice, Mick Cornett, etc.) Istook's staff mentioned concern and that it was not legal, but didn't offer to clean up the signs. They mentioned their volunteers ask for the signs and they have "no control" over it. Most of the candidates I've talked with are willing to have a team remove them if you email or call them and let them know where problem areas are! Do a google to find out candidates websites!

To whom it may concern,

I was writing you requesting more information on what authority _________________ thinks he/she has allowing their campaign team to place yard signs in public right of ways. The signs are illegal and it is against Oklahoma City municipal code. Pretty much all of Chapter 3 of the code prohibits these types of signs,
especially in public right of ways. Check out Subsection 83 as well.
(http://www.municode.com/Resources/gateway.asp?pid=19994&sid=36:
<http://www.municode.com/Resources/gateway.asp?pid=19994&sid=36> )

Metro,

Istook, Bode and Cornett signs are on every corner at NW Expressway and Penn.

ok, thanks. i know classen is getting pretty bad too.

As has been mentioned here before, though campaign signs are just as unsightly as all of the other crappy sign litter that shows up at intersections around town, they are mol off limits as far as pulling them up until after the candidate is no longer in the race. Also, if you are seen pulling them up, people tend to assume that you are working for another candidate. Of course you can call them in to Action Line at 297.2535. If you call them in, you could ask for a report back just to see what happens. Could be interesting. Let us know what happens.

I think campaign signs are getting way out of hand this time around. OKC's ordinances do not exclude campaign signs, and putting them in the r.o.w. is still illegal, but it's just hippocratic BS for the City to continue to allow them. If OKC took a hard line on all sign litter in the r.o.w., including campaign signs, it would set us apart from the rest of the country for sure.

As far as my personal contribution to our OKCTalk sign vigilante effort, over the past week or so, my back seat has accumulated about 75 signs that formerly littered the OKC roadsides. Primarily removed from Classen Blvd., around the OUHSC, Midtown and a few other spots. I'm guessing that it takes a minute or so on average per sign. This is about twice what I normally pull up in a month, so having the extra motivation of this OKCTalk discussion has been a positive benefit for me.

Thanks to all who have and are participating in the cleanup effort.

. . .It looks like we are making some progress with the politicians this year. . . .

A few of the candidates are really laying off of the roadside blitz approach, but there are plenty that are going full blast. Some of the worst offenders are the District Judge candidates. They don't have much of a campaign other than hoping that their name is the last one someone sees on the way to the polls.

I agree ODG, the district judges are probably the worst.

Istook's staff mentioned concern and that it was not legal, but didn't offer to clean up the signs. They mentioned their volunteers ask for the signs and they have "no control" over it.

Perhaps if those political candidates started getting fined for sign placement violations they might make some bit of effort to get control out of how their spam -oh, I mean "signs" were placed.

Maybe if the campaign supporters realized they will hurt their candidate by illegally placing signs they might be more careful in how they do it. I am absolutely against the current "anything goes" attitude.

Further, if a candidate places a large banner or some other display out in the right of way near an intersection, his advertisement will increase the odds of a serious vehicle collision in an intersection. If such a case happens the violator should be held liable in both criminal and civil court. And that especially goes for all those freaking judges!

Thanks for posting Bobby H. I encourage you to take the time and email or call a few candidates, I guarantee you it will not go un-noticed.

Perhaps if those political candidates started getting fined for sign placement violations they might make some bit of effort to get control out of how their spam -oh, I mean "signs" were placed.

Maybe if the campaign supporters realized they will hurt their candidate by illegally placing signs they might be more careful in how they do it. I am absolutely against the current "anything goes" attitude.

Further, if a candidate places a large banner or some other display out in the right of way near an intersection, his advertisement will increase the odds of a serious vehicle collision in an intersection. If such a case happens the violator should be held liable in both criminal and civil court. And that especially goes for all those freaking judges!

So if I wanted to bankrupt my opponent's campaign, all I have to do is move some of his or signs to places where they ought not be?

Do you have any illusion that this wouldn't become a regular practice?

Sorry, but I have to get a little dig in here to those concerned about the "city ordinances."

Guess who went on a major sign-on-right-of-way push over the weekend?

None other than the Mayor of our fair city - Mick Cornett. Damn those ordinances!

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So if I wanted to bankrupt my opponent's campaign, all I have to do is move some of his or signs to places where they ought not be? Do you have any illusion that this wouldn't become a regular practice?

You have a good point. However, those illegally placed signs can create hazards for drivers. Since most of those signs are pretty ineffective and illegible for viewing along most commercial thoroughfares, I'm all for banning them completely on such roads.

Basically if none of the candidates can control where their supporters are placing the signs, if all those folks cannot be trusted in doing their jobs legally, then they should not be posting their trash at all. They need to lose that avenue of advertising since they appear to always abuse the priveledge.

Political signs should really be confined to the front yards in slow-speed residential areas.

I think if a person wants to trying and make a living and took the effort make a sign and post it on a public right of way and, as long as it was not a hazard, Why mess with the little guy?

It is a slap in the face to those people that make the big, intrusive billboards. They get to charge 100 dollars a day or more. What is the little guy left with? Only big cheese businesses get exposure. What about the little guy?

If we illegalize the small stuf, then, dammit, make them ALL illegal or shut the h.e.-double toothpic up and let all the signs shine in the glory of capitalism..

Soj


I know we have talked about this topic before on a similar note. Those illegal, pesky signs that dot our roadways more and more each day along the public right of ways and medians. Political signs, or those advertising cheap tacky businesses have no place in our growing city. These are illegal and violate several city ordinances.

Would anyone be willing to help create or volunteer a task force and we can all do a sweep sometimes at assigned areas and clean these up? I know the city would be on board with this as well as OKC Beautiful. Please respond if you'd be interested in helping.

:congrats: to Sojourner7.

It seems to me that those whom the little signs bother should get a life.

I think if a person wants to trying and make a living and took the effort make a sign and post it on a public right of way and, as long as it was not a hazard, Why mess with the little guy?

It is a slap in the face to those people that make the big, intrusive billboards. They get to charge 100 dollars a day or more. What is the little guy left with? Only big cheese businesses get exposure. What about the little guy?

If we illegalize the small stuf, then, dammit, make them ALL illegal or shut the h.e.-double toothpic up and let all the signs shine in the glory of capitalism..

Soj

I can appreciate your argument 7, but it just doesn't stand up to closer examination. On any given day, a couple dozen or so businesses have strewn the roadside with their little signs. Consider for a moment if a couple of hundred businesses took to the streets with a couple of hundred signs each. Not a pretty picture IMO.

Billboards are equally unattractive to most people and I, for one, wouldn't mind if every billboard in the state disappeared tomorrow, but that isn't going to happen. A few states have banned billboards completely and many cities are passing new anti-billboard laws. OKC recently passed restrictions on placement of new billboards along the realigned I-40 corridor. The billboard industry is one of the most active lobbying groups around and the placement of billboards is controlled by a lot of state and local regulations, but the industry has been very effective in getting laws passed that protect their particular version of capitalism. So, there will be plenty of billboards spoiling everyone's view for generations to come.

The City of Oklahoma City has a very easy to understand ordinance regarding the placement of every kind of sign and that includes a prohibition on placing any kind of sign in the public right of way or on utility poles. It distresses me that most candidates for political office, which presently includes the Mayor of OKC, seem to think it is OK to disregard this particular law during elections. At the same time they fill our mailboxes with cards and letters telling us what upstanding citizens they are and profess their particular version of "family values". Political signs on the roadside are illegal and an eyesore to boot. They are appropriate in the yards of voters and on other private property; a basic free speech right. Candidates that blatantly disregard City ordinances and allow their signs to litter our roadways should consider the harm they do to the appearance of our community and the hypocritical example they are setting.

:congrats: to Sojourner7.

It seems to me that those whom the little signs bother should get a life.

Thanks 5. but I already have a life and my life includes actively working to improve the appearance of the community I live in. If that is not a concern of yours, that's fine with me. However, our City has put in place an ordinance that prohibits all those "little signs", so your brash admonition doesn't carry much weight.

I think if a person wants to trying and make a living and took the effort make a sign and post it on a public right of way and, as long as it was not a hazard, Why mess with the little guy?

While everyone else is piling on, I'll throw in my response as well.

First, the highway right of way is off limits to all signs except those for controlling traffic. That should be enforced with a militant level of absolutism. No exceptions. Driver safety takes full precidence over some fellow's need to make a buck.

"The Little Guy" of whom you speak is often not qualified in any manner at all to be doing sign work. He should get another job.

There is a lot of folks designing signs who have little to no talent or any other qualifications to be doing that kind of work, other than they work cheap.

I think it should take more than the ability to hit a power button to turn on a computer to be able to design signs for a living. Right now that, and a pulse, seems to be the only job requirements in a lot of places.

With that being said, I'm pretty unsympathetic to thousands of "little guy" vinyl only sign shops and print shops trying to dabble in signs. Many of those folks don't know what they're doing. They have little clue of concepts such as environmental design or at least designing with traffic and visibility distances in mind.

My opinion is one should have more qualifications to do things like sign design. They don't necessarily need a four year BFA degree from some New York City art school. However some honest talent, apprenticeship with an accomplished sign designer and perhaps some formal training should be in order.

Signs lining our commercial corridors, whether they're permanent or temporary, have a tremendous effect on shaping the appearance of a city. If you have unqualified amateurs doing much of that work a city can wind up looking pretty trashy as a result.

I think I need to clarify my position here.

I'm not FOR signage.

I'm just saying that if we allow ANY 'road spam', then why should it not be on an equal footing with everyone and not just let the big guys get all the priveleges?

One thing to remember. Signs are advertising for a political candidate... And they DO work.

The candidate that advertises the most usually wins. You can count on it about 90% of the time. That and the fact most people are not educated on how to select a candidate, so they choose the incumbant... Then complain for two to four years because he or she sucks.

Yes. Some of these signs should not be allowed. However, leave the political season alone. The responsible candidates will retreave their signs in a timely manner.

Sorry, but I have to get a little dig in here to those concerned about the "city ordinances."

Guess who went on a major sign-on-right-of-way push over the weekend?

None other than the Mayor of our fair city - Mick Cornett. Damn those ordinances!

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Call up or email his campaign office. He has specifically warned his team not to put them in the public right of ways. If you report the incident, they will take care of it. The problem with all candidates is they let whomever take as many signs as they want, and those people put them in the right of way. Often, the volunteer teams are instructed NOT to do so. I'm emailing Mick today to pick them up from NW Expressway and down Classen also.

Call up or email his campaign office. He has specifically warned his team not to put them in the public right of ways. If you report the incident, they will take care of it. The problem with all candidates is they let whomever take as many signs as they want, and those people put them in the right of way. Often, the volunteer teams are instructed NOT to do so. I'm emailing Mick today to pick them up from NW Expressway and down Classen also.

I'm sure Mick will jump right on that. The truth is, they all say that they don't want their signs in the right-of-ways. This congressional race is a name recognition game and Mick knows how it is played. I still, by the way, stand by my position that all of this gnashing of teeth over our democratic process including these campaign signs at campaign season is silly. We must look so completely spoiled to concern ourselves with this to people who live in countries where a campaign sign advocating democratic change could get you killed. I don't get it....but....whatever, we've already fought that fight in this thread.

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writeranger, what if you had EVERY business in OKC as well as every politician doing the same? There wouldn't be enough grass in the right of way and certainly could not read the signs, the signs issue is not just about the politicians although they are easier to track down than Billy Bob's lawn service who doesn't have a permit to do business and works off his cell phone.

I say go get Billy Bob's Lawn Service. Advertising a commercial enterprise and promoting a campaign as free expression in a community election are two entirely different things.

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yes but those complaining about us that are concerned and complaining about the signs in r.o.w.'s are primarily talking about the private business signs and we have noted that several times in this very thread. The political signs are in addition to. But don't you think if we're going to elect a lawmaker that they abide the law? If you're trying to promote your private business in the right of way, what gives them the right to do so? If you or they don't like it you should suggest, or they should make an exemption allowing certain types of political signs in given areas for a short time period.

yes but those complaining about us that are concerned and complaining about the signs in r.o.w.'s are primarily talking about the private business signs and we have noted that several times in this very thread. The political signs are in addition to. But don't you think if we're going to elect a lawmaker that they abide the law? If you're trying to promote your private business in the right of way, what gives them the right to do so? If you or they don't like it you should suggest, or they should make an exemption allowing certain types of political signs in given areas for a short time period.

It's called tradition. Love it or hate it, It's an AMERICAN tradition. It dates back to 1776. In cities back East, the campaign signs are ("illegally") on light poles and anything that will support something being glued or tacked up. Here it's the roadways. Yeah, it's "illegal," according to the local ordinances. But it's a lot more involved than that. It's also a small (eyesore to some) inconvenience to see democracy in action. As I said before, I find it ironic that young men and women are DYING (as I type) to "bring democracy to Iraq," while back home in Oklahoma City, USA we're complaining about the "illegal" visual activity of an active democracy. Tradition - I guess that's all I can say.

The commercial signs advertising "Billy Bob's Lawn Service," - that can't be compared in my book.