Wow. Not even sure how to react or comprehend this comparison. KFC failed on NW 23. So by the logic of this thread, so will the new restaurant set to open in one year atop Devon tower.

LOL. Some posters just like to be critical and argue. Logic doesn't enter into it.

Century Center was never very well designed IMHO. The ventilation wasn't very good and restaurant odors permeated the hallways. It seemed like the building was designed for no particular usage. As they say, a point in all directions is no point at all. Hopefully it gets totally rethought.

Wow. Not even sure how to react or comprehend this comparison. KFC failed on NW 23. So by the logic of this thread, so will the new restaurant set to open in one year atop Devon tower.

I'm not saying it will fail, I am saying that they are trying the same concept but with glass instead of concrete. People instinctively don't go into office buildings unless they work there. The new garden wing is built between a parking garage (literally at the end of dead end street so good luck getting women to walk down that stretch of Harvey at night) and a park that has its own food service. On the other side of the park will be a monolithic convention center. Now granted the garden wing will have 4,000 employees attached to it so it will fair much better than CC that only had a 300 room hotel attached. The rotunda was billed as a tourist attraction so I am asking; what tourist and what is the attraction? Other than the novelty I am not seeing it, and novelty has a short shelf life.

As for the top floor restaurant – that has a legitimate attraction but once again is far removed from foot traffic and is accessible by going into an office building. However, I am sure it will have a steady clientele because it won’t depend on walk-up diners. Now if the restaurant in the garden wing was directly accesible from the outside it would be a different story.

But as always, if in 2 years I am wrong I will gladly admit it. I was wrong about Bass Pro so I might be wrong about this.

Patrick's right, it's the "mall" problem. If there was a way to have the retail face the street it would make all the difference. As for the rest of it, barring some radical renovation, I surely couldn't oppose the wrecking ball and starting over.

I.M. Pei who initially designed the gardens & Galleria in the 60s was very disappointed with the underground concourse taking people off the streets. He stated that it killed the life of what could have been a very vibrant downton.

The last 6-7 posts have me confused. So.. what does KFC on 23rd have to do with Devon?

The last 6-7 posts have me confused. So.. what does KFC on 23rd have to do with Devon?

Cliffs Notes Version:

JTF: Devon repeating Century Center model with Garden Wing
Steve: That is like saying KFC closed so every restaurant in the area will close

There - you are all caught up.

I.M. Pei who initially designed the gardens & Galleria in the 60s was very disappointed with the underground concourse taking people off the streets. He stated that it killed the life of what could have been a very vibrant downton.

Sourcing please... not disputing this, just never saw this in any of my research and would value this added insight into his thinking, planning for OKC

Cliffs Notes Version:

JTF: Devon repeating Century Center model with Garden Wing
Steve: That is like saying KFC closed so every restaurant in the area will close

There - you are all caught up.
,
I'm disputing whether there is any way to compare the rotunda to century center. They are two very, very different buildings, purposes, etc. It would be more accurate to compare the rotunda to the atrium at Leadership Square

,
I'm disputing whether there is any way to compare the rotunda to century center. They are two very, very different buildings, purposes, etc. It would be more accurate to compare the rotunda to the atrium at Leadership Square

You're right, I am kind of combining two different strucutres - the rotunda and the garden wing. It is the garden wing (with its cafeteria that will be open to the public) that I am comparing to the CC. I just don't think many non-Devon employees will be going there after the newness wears off. If they are counting on the non-employees to make it succesful I think they will be disappointed. That was really my only point in that regards.

The rotunda is also open to the public and I have heard numerous times that they (Devon) thinks people will use the rotunda as a cut-through to get to MBG. I just don't see that happening.

I would urge you to just wait and see how it all fits together and looks before making any judgment. But seriously, no disrespect intended, but to compare anything on this block to Century Center is a bit crazy.

Your point #1 is what concerns me about the new convention center proposal. People instinctively don't "cut through" buildings to get where they want to go. I think Devon will also learn quickly that their rotunda doesn't attract the crowd they are hoping for.

Kerry, why do you think the rotunda was built to attract crowds? It is part of the corporate headquarters and, as such, was built to serve the purpose of the headquarters building. It's not a public building.

The rotunda was billed as a tourist attraction so I am asking; what tourist and what is the attraction? Other than the novelty I am not seeing it, and novelty has a short shelf life.

When was the rotunda ever billed as a tourist attraction? I've never heard that before. It's been considered by many to be a very attractive part of the office complex but it's not something that tourists would come here to see and Devon never built it with that purpose in mind.

If the rotunda is a tourist site we need to fire all the State of Ok Tourism Dept. officials.

The Garden Wing and rotunda is awful design anyway....it is not built up to the sidewalk. There is too much grass in front. Needs to be in Edmond. Now the Century Center....that is great....built right up close to the street.

I'll tell you what - I am perfectly willing to wait and see how it turns out for downtown. Where do these 2,000 people eat now? Where will they eat next year?

I've never heard of anyone promoting the Rotunda as a tourist attraction. It and the Garden Wing are first, and foremost, designed as part of a corporate headquarters. They are intended to provide public spaces for employees to mix, and to meet with people from outside the company. It's for collaboration and civic activities.

I'll tell you what - I am perfectly willing to wait and see how it turns out for downtown. Where do these 2,000 people eat now? Where will they eat next year?

Legit concern. Hopefully it raises the bar for all downtown restaurants. They will have to compete harder with better quality. Competition is good for the consumer.

Where do these 2,000 people eat now? Where will they eat next year?

Don't forget that Continental is bringing in hundreds of new downtown jobs as is a rapidly growing SandRidge and Enogex is in the process of moving into 130,000 square feet at Leadership Square.

Yes, Devon is adding restaurants but there will still be plenty of business to go around.

You're right, back fill will help a lot.

Besides the cafeteria and meeting space, what else, if anything, is planned for the inside. It has a really big footprint.

They have talked about having more restaurants and even some retail on the ground floor.

Not sure about the remainder but you are right, it's a lot of space.

Pete, are you talking about Devon or Century Center? Seems this has become another Devon thread.

My comments were about the Devon Garden Wing.


But you are right, we need to get back on the topic of the Century Center, no matter how depressing that may be.

How about selling the CC to Continental Resources for an activity/meeting center. Devon has one. SR is building one. Chesapeake has one. I believe it is a short tunnel walk from the old Devon tower.

Downtown OKC’s Century Center Mall sold for $2M
By Brianna Bailey
Posted: 06:09 PM Wednesday, May 23, 2012

OKLAHOMA CITY – Downtown’s long-underutilized Century Center Mall has been sold for $2 million to an entity with ties to Bob Moore Auto Group CEO Mark Moore. An Oklahoma limited liability company called 100 Main purchased the shopping mall at 100 W. Main on May 15, according to property records.

Pete - what did they get for $2 million, just the mall portion or did they get the parking garage as well? Do I recall there is also a basement owned by someone else or did I dream that?

Pete - what did they get for $2 million, just the mall portion or did they get the parking garage as well? Do I recall there is also a basement owned by someone else or did I dream that?

the city owns some of the parking .. with option to build 40 more feet of parking on top ..

once renderings are public .. i think people will like what the plan is for this space ..

While this is a move forward, there is only so much that can be done with a 2-story square building with parking on top.

Would rather see the whole thing scraped and put to a higher and better use.

BTW, at $2M for 141,000 square feet, that's only about $14 per sf.

That's outrageously cheap.


For comparison, Continental paid $70 per sf for the old Devon building and that was considered quite a bargain.

While this is a move forward, there is only so much that can be done with a 2-story square building with parking on top.

Would rather see the whole thing scraped and put to a higher and better use.

Pete, we shouldn't tear this down. This is a significant example of post-pre modern contemporary concrete minimilist ugly architecture from one of the world's leading kmart designers (Hackney University gang of 84) and needs preserved for our children. Losing this will decrease mass and destroy our urban environment. It is one of the few buildings we have which is built out to the street. Just needs a little love and care.

Sorry.....couldn't resist. :-)

Pete, we shouldn't tear this down. This is a significant example of post-pre modern contemporary concrete minimilist ugly architecture from one of the world's leading kmart designers (Hackney University gang of 84) and needs preserved for our children. Losing this will decrease mass and destroy our urban environment. It is one of the few buildings we have which is built out to the street. Just needs a little love and care.

Sorry.....couldn't resist. :-)

This +1

I know Rover was being funny, however, it isn't built out to the street. It is 30 feet from building to sidewalk. Also, it won an award for Adaptive Reuse for it's portrayal of a Soviet military bunker and hospital in the movie Red Dawn. Most people don't know that.

I know Rover was being funny, however, it isn't built out to the street. It is 30 feet from building to sidewalk.

Close enough. Just need to pave over that pesky green stuff. LOL
1717

I've seen renderings and plans of using this enormous setback, and filling it in with a multistory retail and office surrounding the garage to create a much needed streetwall.

From an architectural and urban standpoint, it's not that hard to fix. Simply turn the building inside out. The setback is not too huge and could be converted into a pedestrian-friendly hardscape. Installing canopies and a more attractive facade to screen the parking levels would go a long way to improving the appearance of the building. If 40' can be added, that is 3 more floors of parking that would help alieviate the CBD parking shortage. Given the small initial investment, if you added the above-mentioned features, it could be very profitable.

Pete, we shouldn't tear this down. This is a significant example of post-pre modern contemporary concrete minimilist ugly architecture from one of the world's leading kmart designers (Hackney University gang of 84) and needs preserved for our children. Losing this will decrease mass and destroy our urban environment. It is one of the few buildings we have which is built out to the street. Just needs a little love and care.

Sorry.....couldn't resist. :-)

Not going to lie.. I lol'd

I've seen renderings and plans of using this enormous setback, and filling it in with a multistory retail and office surrounding the garage to create a much needed streetwall.

I like that idea a lot. I also like the idea of adding awnings and having enterances facing the sidewalk. Hopefully each unit will have its own door to the sidewalk.

I'd be happy if they just turn on the lights at the entrances to the parking garage...

The Century Center and First National are the two remaining large downtown properties that are embarrassing reminders of past failures and a dead downtown.

So, the idea of fixing up and filling up one of them makes me feel better but there is also the realization that once that happens, we are likely stuck with something that will never be close to the highest and best use for that key property.

If they fill in the space between the building and sidewalk, and raise the elevation 40' I think it will do wonders for the area. If that lot was vacant today and someone came in with the idea of creating a 100' foot mixed use retail and office complex with an internal parking garge for 1000 cars it would be welcomed with open arms. Like Rover said in another thread, we need more mass at street-level, not skyscrapers.

That purchaser, that price .... color me intrigued.

Steve wrote an article in today's DOK about the new ownership and possible renovation. They talked about removing the concrete walls and replacing them with a glass facade. It looked great. Unfortunately I couldn't fine an online link on newsok.

Couldn't find the article on newsok.com either, so I'm including the whole thing from their on line "print version".



CENTURY CENTER’S SALE WILL BRING MAKEOVER, OWNER SAYS
BY STEVE LACKMEYER
Business Writer slackmeyer@opubco.com  


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/centurycenter52612.jpg


Steve Hurst admits that the Century Center Mall is an ugly building, but after representing an investment group in buying the downtown property for $2 million he is eyeing an extensive makeover.

The mall, built in 1977 and only briefly a success in the early 1980s, was purchased May 11 by 100 Main LLC. Plans call for an extensive renovation that will be coordinated with an upgrade of the adjoining Sheraton Hotel and possible expansion of publicly owned structured parking above the former retail space.

Hurst said the investment group bought 115,000 square feet of the mall from the hotel’s owner, American Property Management.

“There’s just an imaginary line of demarcation that separates what we bought from an area the hotel kept because they want to expand their meeting space,” Hurst told The Oklahoman on Friday. “The bones of the building are good. The ugly concrete panels can be removed and a new floor to ceiling glass facade will be installed.”

Hurst said the new owners will talk with city officials about their discussion as to whether to add two more stories to the parking garage — an expansion that would result in about 350 more spaces. The hotel’s owners, meanwhile, reported they plan to launch their own multimillion dollar room renovation that will be completed by spring 2013.

The acquisition was brokered by Zach Martin and Tim Strange with Sperry Van Ness, and leasing will be overseen by Andy Burnett and Danny Ojeda, also with Sperry Van Ness.

The plaza, the only real downtown retail built during the urban renewal era of the 1960s and 1970s, opened with a mix of restaurants, gift shops, clothing stores, a fitness center and even an FAO Schwartz toy store. The second floor was filled with offices during the oil boom of the early 1980s. The mall quickly emptied out with the following oil bust, and life never returned.

“For over 20 years, we have had this huge mall sitting vacant right in the middle of downtown,” Martin said. “It’s literally in between the Devon Energy Center, the Continental Resources building, the First National Center and the Chesapeake arena — but vacant. This redevelopment will be among the most exciting projects in downtown’s recent history.”

Hurst noted the property lagged behind revival of the surrounding area due to the timing of a loan the previous owners obtained using the mall as collateral. The property could not be sold until the loan came due, which occurred this month.

“You see Devon’s investment, you see the investment in the Myriad Gardens, the (rising) occupancy in Class A and Class B office space, and we’ll have a streetcar system that potentially could touch this property on multiple sides,” Hurst said. “Just in the past few years there has been more than $1 billion spent around it.”

Burnett and Hurst recently attended the International Council of Shopping Centers convention in Las Vegas, and both say that trip leads them to believe the property is ripe for redevelopment as a mix of office and retail.

“We’re looking forward to marketing 100,000 square feet of office and retail space in one of downtown’s best locations,” Burnett said. “The level of interest from prospective tenants has been encouraging.”

Hurst said multiple conceptual renderings have been created to show how the mall’s “ugly” concrete panels can be removed and replaced with a modern new glass facade. He cautioned the new owners will not be rushing into any changes.

“We get one shot at this,” Hurst said. “So we want to get the best tenant and the best use. We’re going to take our time.”

BTW, that rendering does not show them extending the building outward in any direction.

The 30' setbacks seem to be retained.

“You see Devon’s investment, you see the investment in the Myriad Gardens (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Myriad+Gardens), the (rising) occupancy in Class A and Class B office space, and we’ll have a streetcar system that potentially could touch this property on multiple sides,” Hurst said. “Just in the past few years there has been more than $1 billion spent around it.”

Another victory for the streetcar influencing development decisions. And it doesn't even exist yet.

Don't be surprised if that width on setback is used to add angled parking spaces from the street.

Don't be surprised if that width on setback is used to add angled parking spaces from the street.

I've been told that won't happen on Sheridan. Not sure on Park.

I think you mean Main, not Park. :)


Also, they just completely re-did Robinson in front of the Century Center (doing Sheridan now).

It would be a massive shame for housing to not be included in this development. I'm hoping the investment partners are creative enough and bold enough to look beyond office in the CBD core.

But this is extremely positive news.

Tear the monstrosity down.

Tear the monstrosity down.I'm with you on this.

I parked or worked in this place for something like 6 years. Although the rendering is without a doubt a tremendous improvement it looks as though they are keeping the spiral drives.... Which are terrible ideas... (Totally fun the first couple times, of course) On a daily basis you really start to see the dangerous problems. I can't see why someone wouldn't want to just start over with the spot... Maybe save the underground parking decks.


Side-note... As of 2002 there was this really weird space on the north side of the second floor of the mall (already more or less abandoned at the time) It had velvet walls and weird alcoves and lofts like some 1970s bordello porn set. Seriously kinky-looking space, people LOL. I have no idea what it was once used for. The space was later stripped down to nothing interesting. :)

I found this sketch on Hans Butzer's website.

If you look closely --and I realize this is all conceptual -- you'll see a restaurant in the southwest corner, something labeled "market" north of that and what appears to be a drugstore with a lunch counter in the northwest corner.

It does seem to mirror the rendering that was released a couple of months ago:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/centurycenterbutzer.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/centurycenter52612.jpg

I am looking forward to something happening with the Stage Center. Just about anything is better than what is currently there, visually (except a surface lot). Looking forward to an official rendering and site plan!

Catch. this thread is for Century Center (Stage Center has its own thread).

Those renderings look excellent, I hope it happens AND FAST!!!!!

Catch. this thread is for Century Center (Stage Center has its own thread).

Those renderings look excellent, I hope it happens AND FAST!!!!!

My bad. I was talking about the Century Center but for some reason I typed Stage. I agree, I hope something does happen soon!

I am looking forward to something happening with the Stage Center. Just about anything is better than what is currently there, visually (except a surface lot). Looking forward to an official rendering and site plan!

whats there is not coming down ... this would reclad the outside

whats there is not coming down ... this would reclad the outside

That is why I said "visually"

i think the visual cladding looks great, particularly if they really do optimize the ground floor offerings with restaurant, grocery/pharmacy, and shoppes.

i have been told the restaurant on the south west corner is pretty much a done deal

I know it wouldn't be sexy, but I'd love to see a Walgreens or CVS at this site, as it would provide much-needed downtown amenities in terms of general shopping and even a decent market.

It's also right in the middle of all of downtown and could serve almost all the visiting, working and living population from there.

I know it wouldn't be sexy, but I'd love to see a Walgreens or CVS at this site, as it would provide much-needed downtown amenities in terms of general shopping and even a decent market.

It's also right in the middle of all of downtown and could serve almost all the visiting, working and living population from there.

I think this would be great, just not sure if there are enough people living downtown for one of those companies to build a store there. But, it would definitely make things much more convenient for the current people living/working downtown. Seems like most other major cities have some sort of pharmacy in/near their CBD.

Something definitely should be done with that building. It is so deserted I earned my first soccer coaching certification in there and it included practice sessions in the large open area!! I think a Walgreens/CVS would be a good addition to downtown - it would be another sign of "normal" life down there.