A friend at work insists that the Crystal Bridge and Myriad Gardens will be torn down to make way for an office building and parking lot. Has anyone else heard about this?

Your friend has been smoking too many botanicals.

wow, thats probably the dumbest thing I have ever heard!!!

Considering there is still tons of un- and under-developed property all around there, the idea doesn't make logical sense.

And, I believe OKC is pretty much done tearing things down for a while (with the exception of the old Crosstown Expressway :) ).

http://packy.dardan.com/walky/albums/album11/afz.thumb.jpg

No way that ever happens. The only way I see losing the bridge is if it begins to bleed so much money that we can't afford it anymore. Maybe a building goes up in that scenario, but if a parking lot is proposed, I will start a riot. There's so much parking, it almost rificulous as it is.

Mow if they said something was happeing with the car lot, I might be quicker to believe that.

There's so much parking, it almost rificulous as it is.


Huh? So *much* parking?

You and I must be going to different Downtown Oklahoma City's. Parking is an absolute nightmare.

-SoonerDave

Actually, quite the contrary. The city of OKC announced recently that they're going to do a complete overhaul of the Crystal Bridge. Over the next year or two, they're going to replace every glass panel on the bridge. It's time, due to age.

As far as costs, it simply comes out of the parks dept. budget. Admission to the bridge, is simply extra.

There's actually been talk of expanding the gardens in the future, not eliminating them.

BTW, is your friend at work named Jack? Sounds like something Jack would've come up with.

You and I must be going to different Downtown Oklahoma City's. Parking is an absolute nightmare.

You're kidding, right? That's all we build are parking lots. You can go down there when there's a game, a convention, a civic center and a festival in bricktown and park on the street within 5 blocks of any of these things. It's amazing.

I meet my wife for lunch downtown all the time and never have to pay for parking. It's everywhere.

I've never had a problem parking downtown. Pick a parking garage, any parking garage. There are tons of parking garages downtown. What's the problem? Is the problem that you have to pay to park? Well, that's the case in every major downtown area.

What I do on game nights is park away from the Ford Center over in the Arts District at a Parking Meter (free after 5PM). Works like a charm! Let everyone else fight over the $10 parking next to the Ford Center and under the Cox Center. I don't mind walking.

You can park in the parking garage at Walker and Sheridan for "free" (there is no toll collector usually after 5 pm). It's about a 5 minute walk to the Ford Center from there. Kind of nice actually, right past the Gardens and stuff. Even when there is a collector, the price is much lower than the gouging that takes place right next to the Ford Center.

Let everyone else fight over the $10 parking next to the Ford Center and under the Cox Center.

Yeah, I'd much rather walk past the traffic than sit in it.


Well, that's the case in every major downtown area.

And our rates are cheaper than most, as well.

Last time I was in San Antonio, I paid $12 to park near the Riverwalk.

I still don't understand why so many parking structures -- particularly the new ones at the Galleria -- have been built recently.

When I worked downtown in the 80's, there were more people working downtown than now and parking wasn't a problem at all.

I think one reason for the newer, more recent parking garages is because so many of the existing parking lots have been taken up by new construction. The most recent example is the lot immediately southeast of the Bricktown Balllpark which is becoming a hotel. The lot that was directly south of the ballpark is now the Sonic building.

The problem isn't cost, its availability. On a moderately busy Friday night near the Harkins Theater, its not at all uncommon to find *zero* spaces available - taken by all those customers making urgent stink bait purchases at Bass Pro, eating at Toby Keith's, or going to the movies.

The parking garage on Sheridan isn't a bad idea, and it deposits you in the middle of the pedestrian area in Bricktown. However, it isn't always practical to plan to park at a particular location at 5pm if you can't get your family together quite that early.

The garage south of the new Courtyard wasn't built for a lark; it was built as part of a broader recognition that there aren't enough spaces in Bricktown. I regret that I cannot quote it chapter-and-verse, but I do recall more than one or two commentaries/studies about the Bricktown and downtown areas that said one critical problem was the critical lack of both hotel rooms and parking - and how that problem was only going to worsen as lots are converted into retail or commercial venues.

Yes, I realize you could go to xyz garage on the corner of 5th and Unlit Alley and walk forever, or wait for a trolley, or park at zyx lot by just getting there three hours before everyone else and just homestead. There's a practical reality at hand here; however ,those people who just don't have the sense to get there at 4pm or use those seemingly abundant garages are also the customers that will spend the money to make Bricktown survive. If our best answer for them is "Get there earlier, or ride a trolley on the opposite side of town," we're making our customers seem like a decided inconvenience.

-SoonerDave

The people you are talking about have to do the same things to park in other downtowns.

You seem to have the Oklahoma "I should be able to park 100 feet or less from the front door" mentality. You are right about the Harkins lot often being completely full, but there are usually spaces in the new lot next to the Land Run Monument, and I'm sure there is always space in the Power Alley garage, which is not in a dark alley and is not very far from anything in Bricktown.

The people you are talking about have to do the same things to park in other downtowns.

You seem to have the Oklahoma "I should be able to park 100 feet or less from the front door" mentality.

Bingo!

Parking is not a problem in either Bricktown or Downtown.

The people complaining are the same ones who keep driving around looking for the closest spot at the gym, too. ;)

The people complaining are the same ones who keep driving around looking for the closest spot at the gym, too.
I agree and the blue haired mall walkers that park in the handcap parking.

Folks, the trolleys cost like 25 cents. Yup, that's all. So park in Santa Fe Garage for free (they don't usually collect money after hours and if they do it's only $2) and ride the trolley to Bricktown.

You don't see people in NYC parking right next to the Empire State Building. Nope there's little parking in Manhattan, and the parking that is there is outrageous. People depend on the subway.

The arena south of the Courtyard wasn't built for Bricktown....it's the same distance from Bricktown as Santa Fe Garage. It was built for the Ford Center and the Courtyard.

The lack of parking has been to blame for the lack of expansion downtown. Perhaps COTPA, Oklahoma County, and OKC have embarked on a Field of Dreams strategy? (If we build it, they will come)

You can't have a dense, thriving city and at the same time have curb side parking 10 ft from every possible attraction for every possible car that comes and visits. If that's the what you want, then visit Memorial road, where every single store comes built with a gigantic parking lot.

The Santa Fe parking garage is perhaps a 5 minute walk from anywhere in Bricktown. It doesn't require you to get there early, or do any outlandish task except walk for 5 minutes. Most people spend more than 5 minutes driving in circles looking for a closer parking spot anyways.

The garage south of the new Courtyard wasn't built for a lark; it was built as part of a broader recognition that there aren't enough spaces in Bricktown.

It was built for the Ford Center and due to perception not practicality. It was built for the lazy mentality of Oklahoman that would rather have parking convenience than beauty in their city.

As for Harkins, The walk from car to box office is hardly ever longer than that same walk on a Friday night at Quail Springs. And for those that are unlucky enough to park on the other side of the canal, I am sorry that we built this ugly water way that takes up your parking spaces and forces you to walk down it. :rolleyes:


I do recall more than one or two commentaries/studies about the Bricktown and downtown areas that said one critical problem was the critical lack of both hotel rooms and parking

Are you sure about that? Maybe some commentaries of people complaining that they can not fall out of their car into the front door of where they are going, but I do know that the city has done studies which say that our parking will support full scale events at both the Ford Center and the Cox Convention center and, you know what, it's already been proven that it can several times.


Yes, I realize you could go to xyz garage on the corner of 5th and Unlit Alley and walk forever, or wait for a trolley, or park at zyx lot by just getting there three hours before everyone else and just homestead

What are you talking about? Three hours? Anyone who goes three hours early to avoid walking 30 minutes at the most is insane! You could walk around the entire perimeter of OKC's downtown four times in three hours. Get there 10 minutes before the event, park on the street and walk. If you have a condition that prevents you from walking at normal speed, I sincerely apologize. And if there are not enough spaces for handicap people, I 100% agree we need more, as everyone should be able to enjoy downtown. But, if not, seriously, OKC's downtown is small and you could walk from one end to the other in under an hour easily, let alone walk 5 blocks in 10-15 minutes at the most. There aren't even many long lights to wait for.

Honestly, the only reason me and others here get so upset at this attitude is that we hope that downtown can be something unique to the city and the region. Catering to the "must be at park at the front door mentality" only dilutes this hope, especially when there is more than ample parking at this point. The only way one can say there isn’t enough parking is to mean that there isn’t enough parking exclusively attached to each destination. Well, the solution to that is a strip mall where people actually drive the parking lots as they go from place to place, never walking, never interacting, never exploring, never acting like a community at all. I guess just out of the 600 square miles of this type of living, some people feel that OKC could use 1 square mile of more community and pedestrian based development.

And parking arguments aside, next time there is an event like a concert or ball game, park in one of the garages. I guarantee the time you sit and wait to get out of the garage and through traffic with everyone leaving at the same time will be longer than the time you would have spent walking to and from a space 5 blocks away. This has been true in OKC since before we even dreamed of an NBA team.

It is the easiest downtown to park in I have ever been in. It would be a shame to piss it away on more parking lots because some can't walk 5 blocks.

First of all, let me respectfully say I'm stunned at the abrasive attitude some people have here if you dare suggest the need for more parking at Bricktown. The clear implication here is you must be some lazy, fat, drooling idiot with some "Oklahoma" mentality (whatever that is) - and the inherent derision in the comment is wholly inappropriate.

I'm not some drooling idiot, and I don't expect to park 10 feet in front of a building. I resent the inference. I stand behind the notion that it is silly to expect to establish as your long-term Bricktown plan to park in a garage on the opposite side (if not completely outside) of the area and ride a trolley in just go to the movies! As far as "homesteading," it was another poster in this thread that brought up the notion of showing up at a particular spot at 5pm. Is that intended as a solution for parking on a Friday night for a movie that starts at 7? I also *agreed* with the notion of parking in the "power alley" garage - as I have done numerous times.

If you work downtown, then it is obviously easy to suggest "park at this garage and just trolley/walk over, it's no big deal." But it *is* a big deal to the family that's never or only rarely visited downtown when you tell them how cool Bricktown is, but tell them they should park in a garage such that they can't even see their destination. It isn't about parking "ten feet from the door," it's about *lines of sight*.

I fully realize that parking around the Empire State Building and other larger downtown/metropolitan areas is different. That's a good thing. I want a nice downtown entertainment district, but I don't *want* OKC to become Manhattan, or New York City, or (fill in the blank). Perhaps something that's being lost here is the reality that Oklahoma is a commuter-oriented city in a commuter-oriented state, and that means cars are a reality that must be dealt with.

Keep in mind that new residential space is on the way to Bricktown/downtown, and that implies space to park tenants' vehicles, too. That continues to paint a picture of diminishing out-year parking for Bricktown, made all the worse as more hotels, shopping, and other venues are erected. Its a problem created perhaps as an indicator of our own success, I suppose.

Lastly, before we dismiss them (and I guess that means me, too, by association), that all those drooling, fat, "Oklahoma-mentality" idiots that are so roundly disparaged here are also prospective paying customers. Even if the reality is that there are millions of ideal parking spaces available, the perception that parking is inadequate exists. Solving that problem needs a solution more creative than telegraphing the message that people who think that way are just idiots.

-SoonerDave

the perception that parking is inadequate exists. Solving that problem needs a solution more creative than telegraphing the message that people who think that way are just idiots.

We agree!


If you work downtown, then it is obviously easy to suggest "park at this garage and just trolley/walk over, it's no big deal." But it *is* a big deal to the family that's never or only rarely visited downtown when you tell them how cool Bricktown is, but tell them they should park in a garage such that they can't even see their destination.

Doesn't that make it sound cooler?


Lastly, before we dismiss them (and I guess that means me, too, by association), that all those drooling, fat, "Oklahoma-mentality" idiots that are so roundly disparaged here are also prospective paying customers.

Which is interesting. They are obviously going to BT because it is different from their local black top strip mall. Why ruin that unique experience by using prime real estate for parking that could otherwise be used to enhance and even better that experience? I think that was the original intent of my post to begin with and why I couldn't stomach the idea of using anything valuable for more parking.

Bricktown is interesting in large part because it is not a parking lot, nor can you see a lot of parking from it. The two things that bring it down the most are the surface lot right in the middle and the ballpark garage, that basically trashes an otherwise lovely view from the ball park.

The clear implication here is you must be some lazy, fat, drooling idiot with some "Oklahoma" mentality (whatever that is) - and the inherent derision in the comment is wholly inappropriate.

I hear you on the fat and drooling thing. As pointed out before, there are people who drive around for a close parking spot when going to the gym. But, is it not lazy to insist we have more parking in a downtown full of parking just because there isn't parking equal to capacity at each specific destination? Isn't laziness where that perception comes from? What other motivation would we be catering to than laziness by building more parking?

Seriously, we are a commuting city with an average commute of around 17 minutes. Isn't that actually reason to have an area where you get out of the car and walk, because 1) we're always in our cars and 2) we have time to walk even after commuting?

I am still confused as to how the power alley garage ever got approved in its current state. Hopefully someday in the future, it can be bricked, and I'm not talking about the trashy 'brick' tiles on the ground floor.

Oh, and I don't want to sound as if I'm saying laziness is a trait exclusive to Oklahomans. That's why valet exists.

SoonerDave, please don't take the debate here personally.

The parking issue has been discussed many times and is a bit of a hot-button.


As much as we all want OKC to become some sort of urban mecca, that has to be balanced against the fact that many in town have the perception there is a parking problem in Bricktown.

I personally don't see it but I do recognize that people do stay away because they don't like the hassle and expense. I suppose that's part and parcel of any concentrated entertainment district.

crystal bridge or parking? what was this about again? i could have sworn there was a thread for dt parking.

I guess some people habitually have more problems finding a place to park downtown than others. Frankly, I never have a problem; day or night no matter what I’m driving downtown to do. Of course, weather permitting, I would rather walk and usually do. One of the benefits to living near downtown. I walk to the music hall, art museum or ballpark and drive to the grocery store . . . no problem parking downtown . . . plenty of parking in front of the grocery store.

Perhaps there is a perception that if you are going to Bricktown, you should park east of the tracks and if you are going to a concert at the Ford Center, park on the west. I know for a fact that the Santa Fe Garage is very underutilized and often the parking is $2 when other places are $6 and up.

Parking problem or not, on the first Fourth of July that the canal was opened, over 250,000 people came and went through Bricktown. That's nearly one fourth of the entire population of the OKC Metro downtown on the same day and there was easily 25% less parking than there is now.

Downtown Oklahoma City is no different than any other city in one important regard. If there is something that people want to see or do, they will get there to see or do it; come hell or high water; plenty of parking or not. We don't need more parking as much as we need more really interesting, exciting, beautiful places to visit and things to do downtown.

Every time I hear or read complaints about a lack of downtown parking, I remember what then Ward 7 Councilman Goree James said when The Spaghetti Warehouse opened in Bricktown. Nearly all the other surrounding buildings except Neal Horton’s two buildings across the street were vacant. The streets were dirty and dark and the sidewalks were in bad shape. People were driving down there to eat and there were only a very few parking places near the building on Sheridan and one or two small parking lots. The Daily Oklahoman was interviewing the Councilman and the reporter passed along the gripes about a lack of parking that had been going around. Councilman James responded with:

“It’s been a long time since we have had a problem with congestion in downtown Oklahoma City and we hope to be seeing a lot more congestion down here in the future.”

I love it.

What we really need to do is get the word out to visitors (in tour guides and on websites, etc) that much cheaper and even FREE parking exists just outside of Bricktown. That way those that dare to do a little walking around corners and crossing busy streets can park in the Santa Fe and Galleria garages and those that are worried they'll get lost or mugged on the two block trip can pay a premium to park in the less-full surface lots right next to Zio's.

I'm not a fan of the city parking folks for scalping the garages.

If ticket holders aren't allowed to charge more for their tickets, raising the prices at the garages shouldn't either.

crystal bridge or parking? what was this about again?

It's about the possibility of a parking lot replacing the crystal bridge, so it's about both.

Yeah, the title of this thread is a little 'Jack'-esque.

...and it is about downtown parking.

I am not Jack. Anyway, my friend says that the plan is for three buildings on the property that now houses the crystal bridge and myriad gardens. Two office buildings and a parking garage. As far as other properties being better suited for development.... that is true, but they are privately owned. The city owns the garden, and development of the land would certianly be more profitable than the garden.

The block that comprises the Myriad Gardens is underutilized, that's for sure.

Seems like offices and hotels could be added at any of the four corners and could even take over some of what is now the park without dectracting from it much.

That whole property could be put to much better use.

The block that comprises the Myriad Gardens is underutilized, that's for sure.

Seems like offices and hotels could be added at any of the four corners and could even take over some of what is now the park without dectracting from it much.

That whole property could be put to much better use.

I think this would be a huge mistake. The nice thing about the gardens is that they're right in the middle of downtown and free of any skyscrapers, parking garages, etc.

Anyways, I've talked to the parks dept, and they've told me the rumor is just that.

The city owns the garden, and development of the land would certianly be more profitable than the garden.

Too many people in this city are concerned about making profits. That's why OKC is in the shape it's in, and needs tons of money to be spent to beautify it. Taking anything away from the Myriad Gardens will only decrease beautification efforts in this city.

The block that comprises the Myriad Gardens is underutilized, that's for sure.

Seems like offices and hotels could be added at any of the four corners and could even take over some of what is now the park without dectracting from it much.

That whole property could be put to much better use.

I completely disagree. The gardens don't need to be any smaller. They are a great tourist attraction and add a lot to OKC's quality of life. If we want hotels or skyscrapers around it, we can replace the surface-level Galleria garage and Bob Howard Ford.

Look at Central Park in New York, all the buildings are across the street from it, not in the park itself.

The SE corner of the gardens was to have had a hotel or convention space as part of the original plan and could easily accomodate either, considering there is only a surface parking lot and not much else there currently.

It would be awesome to have a resort-style hotel at the location that had a huge atrium that fed into the park and became a gateway.

But certainly, there are other properties all around that should be developed as well.

But certainly, there are other properties all around that should be developed as well.

That should be the first priority, although I suppose the surface parking could go as long as it's limited to that small area and doesn't encroach on the Gardens.

The block that comprises the Myriad Gardens is underutilized, that's for sure.

Seems like offices and hotels could be added at any of the four corners and could even take over some of what is now the park without dectracting from it much.

That whole property could be put to much better use.


The city owns the garden, and development of the land would certianly be more profitable than the garden.

I don't think you could get a total of three urban planners or architects on this planet to agree that putting buildings where the Myriad Gardens are is a good idea.

The park is a hugh asset to downtown. Just as in art, the negative, more empty or softer spaces are equal in importance to the more dynamic or intense spaces. It will not be removed for any purpose. In addition, the presence of the park doubles or triples the value of the adjoining land.

Just imagine if the planners had left the Biltmore standing, they could have moved a few blocks south and we still could have had the unfinished 'Galleria' project and Myriad Gardens and a large 'convention' hotel. (and a larger skyline, to boot)

But nooooo! ;)

Whoever says the Myriad Gardens is underutilized needs to reconsider their thoughts. Tons of stuff goes on at the Myriad Gardens. It's basically the centerpoint of every major downtown event, whether it be a charity run, the Arts festival, Christmas in December, or whatever. Just go there on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon and you'll find tons of professional photographers out there taking wedding pics. The day I had my engagement photos out there, we ran into at least 4 or 5 other engaged couples taking pics.

I think if anything we need to develop the Myriad Gardens further. A few years back, the Meinders water garden filled the NE corner of the park. How about designated gardens in the other corners of the park? I'd love to see a rose garden, similar to that out at Will Rogers Park.

If anything, I think the Myriad Gardens should be expanded, not made smaller. It's one of our best assets as a city. It always seems to be the focal point for convention goers and every other visitor downtown.

How about we build some more green houses?

The Bridge is one of, if not the best attraction downtown OKC has, it's outstanding and unique, this thread is stupid, it's going nowhere, OKC should expand the bridge if anything.

The Bridge is one of, if not the best attraction downtown OKC has, it's outstanding and unique, this thread is stupid, it's going nowhere, OKC should expand the bridge if anything.

I couldn't agree more.

The Bridge is one of, if not the best attraction downtown OKC has, it's outstanding and unique, this thread is stupid, it's going nowhere, OKC should expand the bridge if anything.

As I said, it's getting a complete makeover soon....all of the glass panels will be replaced.

. . . . this thread is stupid . . . .

I don't agree with you on this particular point Swank. I believe that all open discussion is valid and beneficial even though the rumor that is the basis of the discussion may be ill-advised as is the one that began this thread. It is better to raise these issues, present these ideas (and rumors) and share our insights, experience and opinions rather than quash debate.

I seldom agree with Jack and don't support the concept of just throwing things on the table to stir controversy, but some of the threads he has started have had a beneficial outcome, IMO.

I agree with the often used phrase "there are no foolish questions" when it comes to public discussion.

COTPA is an interesting organization. A friend of mine was in a position where he got to look at some of the COTPA bonds, financial info, etc. It's an amazing organization. Can anyone tell me why the Santa Fe Parking Garage runs in the red? How in the hell does a parking garage not make a profit?

The new garage on Hudson and McGee was built on land "donated" by ONG. In exchange, ONG was provided with many of the parking spots for free. What a way to get a free parking garage built for you.

The Santa Fe garage is very under utilized to use a term from earlier in this thread. COTPA is also has no marketing skills what so ever. The Santa Fe garage is right across the street from Bricktown and COTPA has made little or no effort to attract Bricktown users even though there is an underpass leading to Bricktown directly across from the garage's main entrance. I was at a COTPA board meeting about seven or eight years ago and someone in the audience suggested that they put up a big neon sign on the Santa Fe garage that said "Bricktown Parking", put in a pedestrian crosswalk and spruce up the underpass into Bricktown. Several people on the board said they thought it was a really bad idea and there was no further discussion. Look at the surface parking that is no easier to use, and is much pricer that has been constructed in the last five years.

There was also a downtown traffic and parking study about ten years ago (no doubt gathering dust down at COTPA) that suggested developing a smart parking information system that would direct event attendees to garages with vacant spaces available. I think there is a new director down there and they did the fixed guide-way transportation study recently, but in general they don't come off as a very creative group. I think COTPA actually stands for Central Oklahoma Transportation & Parking Apathy

The Sante Fe lot will get more action when the Skirvin reopens.

Pretty sure that's where they direct most of their guests and event attendees -- at least they used to.

The Sante Fe lot will get more action when the Skirvin reopens.

Pretty sure that's where they direct most of their guests and event attendees -- at least they used to.

With both the Skirvin & Renaissance staying busy, the Santa Fe Garage will stay pretty busy.

One thing that needs to be addressed, especially with the Skirvin getting closer to opening is updating the elevator lobbies of the garage. The 70's era paint scheme really is an eyesore. I think an updated color palatte and some cool numbers on the elevator doors could make the garage more attractive, going into the new 'Skirvin era'.

Hey Malibu, I like that. . . the new Skirvin era. Downtown will have definitely turned a corner when the Skirvin reopens. Big party.

I was downtown today with some friends--mostly from out of town--and after impressing them with the inside of First National and visiting the Tinder Box cigar shop, we walked down to the Gardens. There were people everywhere walking, taking pictures, taking senior pictures and wedding pictures, etc. And Swake is right. The Crystal Bridge is definitely one of if not THE most unique attractions in OKC. It's not going anywhere.

Yeah the elevator lobbies in that garage will be embarassing if they don't get a major update.