View Full Version : Downtown Housing , Update



okclee
03-15-2006, 12:27 PM
Where are They ??

The Hill
Legacy Summit
The Factory
Lower Bricktown condos
The Triangle
Block 42
Midtown
The Central Ave Villas
etc.
etc.

What is the latest on all of the future planned housing developments for downtown ? Why does it take so long for anything to happen ? We all want downtown to have retail, dining, entertainment , etc. Yet the housing isn't there. My wife and I talk frequently about moving downtown into one of these "future developments" , where are they ? I drive downtown and look around hoping to see something, but I don't see them. I wonder how many other people are like my wife and I, wanting and waiting for development.

Midtowner
03-15-2006, 12:29 PM
No worries. Rome wasn't built in a day.

okclee
03-15-2006, 12:38 PM
That doesn't answer my question, and I am not worried.

Does anyone have any new info on these "future developments" for downtown housing ?

Patrick
03-15-2006, 12:38 PM
Where are They ??

The Hill
Legacy Summit
The Factory
Lower Bricktown condos
The Triangle
Block 42
Midtown
The Central Ave Villas
etc.
etc.

What is the latest on all of the future planned housing developments for downtown ? Why does it take so long for anything to happen ? We all want downtown to have retail, dining, entertainment , etc. Yet the housing isn't there. My wife and I talk frequently about moving downtown into one of these "future developments" , where are they ? I drive downtown and look around hoping to see something, but I don't see them. I wonder how many other people are like my wife and I, wanting and waiting for development.

Many of these were just approved recently.

Ground work just started on the Legacy Summit. There were many delays due to a variety of factors, everything from needing to move utilities to financing.

The Hill has just completed the planning stage, and ground will move soon.
Same with Block 42.

The Factory is not happening. That was already announced.

The Triangle is in progress. This covers a large area and will probably occur a little at a time, as space is leased. Once space is leased in one building, they'll move to the next. This covers much of the Flat Iron district.

Lower Bricktown condos are still in the wrap up stages of planning, and should turn ground later this year, if not sooner. With Randy Hogan, you never know. So far, he's given pretty much what he promised though. Boy, did I just say that? lol!

It was just recently announced that the Sieber Hotel will be turned into residential. I'd say wait a year or two for this to start.


Paperwork, Urban Renewal, Financing...there's a lot of snags that have to be dealt with before these projects can begin. Unfortunately, it just takes time.

Oh yeah, I haven't heard anything about the Steel Yard recently.

Patrick
03-15-2006, 12:40 PM
These things do take time. 10 years from now, I'd bet things will look very different downtown.

Patrick
03-15-2006, 12:41 PM
Concerning retail, well, retail follows rooftops. I'd say retail will follow residential. Since we have little residential downtown right now, that explains the reason it's been so hard to get retail downtown.

okclee
03-15-2006, 12:47 PM
Great info Patrick, I appreciate it.

Sometimes I wonder if these projects are losing steam, because I don't see any info or any progress report. Your information sounds like everything is moving along nicely.

My wife and I plan to move downtown within the next year or two. We want options on where to move, and we hope that the Triangle is all what it is planned to be.

Patrick
03-15-2006, 12:54 PM
In my opinion, the success of the Triangle will depend on how early stages do. If early stages aren't very successful, you might se it come to a screaming hault. If they're very successful, it might spread like wildfire. Like I said, I'd say the Triangle will take at least 10 years to complete. AT LEAST!

Always remember, just because someone says they're boing to build something, doesn't mean they will. I can't beginto tell you how many different things Jim Brewer was gonig to build in Bricktown. And The Factory was all a big joke as well.

It all has to start somewhere though. With the success Deep Deuce has had, I'd imagine, success will follow at the Legacy Summit. Momentum will build, and hopefully more and more housing will follow. But momentum takes time.

I'd say the next completed developments you'll see will be over the next 3 or 4 years and will be Legacy Summit, Lower Bricktown Condos, The Hill, and Block 42. I don't see any reason why they won't be completed. The latter 3 will be the first For Sale residences in the downtown area. Legacy Summit will be apartments.

Hey, have you checked into The Classen? It's near downtown, and its coming along nicely. I only wish I had the money to buy there.

Patrick
03-15-2006, 12:55 PM
Great info Patrick, I appreciate it.

Sometimes I wonder if these projects are losing steam, because I don't see any info or any progress report. Your information sounds like everything is moving along nicely.

My wife and I plan to move downtown within the next year or two. We want options on where to move, and we hope that the Triangle is all what it is planned to be.

If I were you, I'd contat Randy Hogan (Lower Bricktown), Anthony McDermid (The Triangle), Grant Humphreys (Block 42), and the developers of The Hill now. I've heard many people are already inquiring about these properties. You better hurry.

BDP
03-15-2006, 01:11 PM
I've heard many people are already inquiring about these properties.

That's true. They have lists, and if some projections are right and you want to live downtown, you want to be on their list.

Karried
03-15-2006, 01:12 PM
You can access some DT Housing web sites directly from here.

http://www.downtownokc.com/Default.aspx?tabid=109

I know it is frustrating. I'm trying to find townhomes for clients downtown and it is a slow process.

ksearls
03-15-2006, 01:44 PM
Patience Grasshopper.

Take a look at the Skyline Snapshot, it is updated quarterly and will fill you in on all the news. The next one is due out in April.

http://www.downtownokc.com/Portals/1/PDF/skyline%20snapshot%201%202006%20new.pdf

Kim

Pete
03-15-2006, 01:56 PM
I don't know why more people don't consider Mesta Park and surrounding areas.

Last fall when I was in town, I went to look at a beautifully restored home on a very nice street in north Heritage Hills (19th Street, I believe) and it was better than new -- gorgeous landscaping, nice yard, quiet street -- and was listed for $270K.

You can certainly pay less if you don't mind some renovatation.


I'd much rather buy in those neighborhoods than in many of the locations soon to be under constuction.

That is, unless the new construction could offer a great view or be on the river or offer something truly unique.

ptwobjb
03-15-2006, 01:59 PM
The Hill has been sending out some mailings, I recently got one in the mail detailing floor plans and some other info. No solid numbers on pricing or construction dates. They seem to be putting off the pricing...probably testing the waters to be honest. I know they are aiming high on prices and want to see who bites.

Check out their website at:
http://www.thehillokc.com/

Block42 also has a website but you can see that link in the downtownokc website mentioned above.

Another option for renting is the Montgomery, a real nice property right in the middle of downtown. I live there right now and really enjoy it.

HOT ROD
03-15-2006, 02:29 PM
Concerning retail, well, retail follows rooftops. I'd say retail will follow residential. Since we have little residential downtown right now, that explains the reason it's been so hard to get retail downtown.

I disagree with this. the ZIP code 73102 has a density of 4500 residents (NOW) and is less than 1 sq mile. the other ZIPs around 73102 are also the most dense in OKC.

I think they need to rethink that argument! OKC's centre is not New York or Chicago, but it does deserve retail! And it HAS the population to support it, ESPECIALLY local and urban oriented retail! The pop is there, in the centre and it will continue to grow.

I expect 73102 to be 10,000 in density by 2010, why would retail have to wait until that milestone! when as it stands, downtowners hop in their cars and shop in the suburbs (because they are forced to).

John
03-15-2006, 02:54 PM
Once the 6th St/Downtown/Bricktown exit ramp is completed, the progress will pick up considerably, due to the numbers passing through.

shane453
03-15-2006, 05:55 PM
I think Park Harvey is already in progress, is it not?

And I think the Sieber hotel article said that they were trying to get started by February (last month). The Midtown people are really trying to get off the ground fast, so that wouldn't surprise me at all if it were true.

Patrick
03-15-2006, 06:24 PM
That is, unless the new construction could offer a great view or be on the river or offer something truly unique.

Ditto on Heritage Hills and Mesta Park. Paseo is also coming back slowly. Edgemere and Crown Heights are also nice.

For the reason stated above, I'd really consider the Classen. Awesome views of OKC.

Patrick
03-15-2006, 06:24 PM
I think Park Harvey is already in progress, is it not?

Doug may have more information on that, since his office was located there.

Patrick
03-15-2006, 06:26 PM
Another option for renting is the Montgomery, a real nice property right in the middle of downtown. I live there right now and really enjoy it.

I envy you.

Patrick
03-15-2006, 06:28 PM
I disagree with this. the ZIP code 73102 has a density of 4500 residents (NOW) and is less than 1 sq mile. the other ZIPs around 73102 are also the most dense in OKC.

I think they need to rethink that argument! OKC's centre is not New York or Chicago, but it does deserve retail! And it HAS the population to support it, ESPECIALLY local and urban oriented retail! The pop is there, in the centre and it will continue to grow.

I expect 73102 to be 10,000 in density by 2010, why would retail have to wait until that milestone! when as it stands, downtowners hop in their cars and shop in the suburbs (because they are forced to).

I think the issue there, is that many of the residential areas right in the general vicinity of downtown aren't very upscale. Heritage Hills is an exception. Mesta Park really is too far away to be figured into that equation. Unfortunately, areas south of I-40 are included in the figures, as are some of the slums to the west.

ptwobjb
03-15-2006, 08:38 PM
These things take time. Not too many people think of downtown when they think shopping. But as the residential projects build up downtown, this will start to change. But it won't happen over night.

ptwobjb
03-15-2006, 08:40 PM
I envy you.

I really like living downtown. The only problem is security -- we've had several cases of cars being broken into and I had a motorcycle stolen a few months ago. But the Montgomery and city have been very responsive and are working on significantly increasing security in the parking areas.

These type of things are to be expected when new developments are starting in traditionally run down areas.

Midtowner
03-15-2006, 10:31 PM
ptw, we have basically the same troubles down in Sycamore Square. Mostly petty stuff like car stereos getting stolen -- no cars yet.

That's life in the big city though :)

John
03-15-2006, 10:45 PM
I think Park Harvey is already in progress, is it not?

There is quite a bit of work going on at the Park Harvey. I'm not sure of their timetable, but there is always construction activity going on whenever I'm passing by.

Patrick
03-16-2006, 10:59 AM
ptw, we have basically the same troubles down in Sycamore Square. Mostly petty stuff like car stereos getting stolen -- no cars yet.

That's life in the big city though :)

Shoot those things happen everywhere. We have a friend who just got her brand new pickup stolen at Rain Dance apartments at 122nd and Penn. Apparently, that happens regularly at that apartment complex and the management doesn't seemt to care.

Patrick
03-16-2006, 11:00 AM
Oh, one other housing project to add to the list. Don't forget that KerrMcGee is turning most of their buildings (except for the tower) into condos. Not sure when that project will start.

metro
03-16-2006, 06:35 PM
I think Park Harvey is already in progress, is it not?

And I think the Sieber hotel article said that they were trying to get started by February (last month). The Midtown people are really trying to get off the ground fast, so that wouldn't surprise me at all if it were true.

Park Harvey is well under way with an expected completion date of September of this year. Yes, also several other midtown projects are underway including the Sieber Hotel and Hudson Ave. Lofts, Banta's numerous projects, etc.

downtownguy
03-16-2006, 08:50 PM
Block 42 and The Hill were proposed one year ago. Unless you've done a development yourself, you can't begin to appreciate what's involved in these projects.

soonerguru
03-17-2006, 08:22 AM
Mesta Park too far? It's adjacent to Heritage Hills. Dewey, I believe, is the street dividing it.

I would classify Mesta Park as being an extension of Midtown.

BDP
03-17-2006, 09:19 AM
I would include everything up to 23rd as a potential retail base, especially everything east of Classen. While I agree that some of these areas are a little farther, it doesn't have much in services beyond the basics. These people are very used to driving up to the expressway and further for retail services. Anything downtown will be as close or closer to them than a great deal of their current shopping options. And given that most of these people choose these areas as a lifestyle choice, I'm willing to bet that they would be more drawn to urban shopping even if it was slightly less convenient. Obviously, any unique shops or, at least ones unique to the city, could draw metro wide and possibly serve the entire area with one central location rather than 3 outer locations, significantly decreaseing their cost of goods sold per square feet. The flip side to that is that OKC cost per square foot is usually not much of a hindering factor to begin with.

I understand the slow response of retail. I think we've discussed it before, but OKC's lack of density, even in these areas, don't fit the number crunching models of many major retailers (except, of course, Wal-Mart, for which we are the "perfect" market). Obviously, any increased numbers help, but as the city gains more and more clout as a viable economic market, business will realize that OKC can be a successful exception to some of their expansion models.

The Old Downtown Guy
03-17-2006, 11:46 AM
A lot of retailers, including grocery stores use a 20 to 40 minute drive time to help them establish their surrounding draw and would be totally shocked to see how uncongested and easy it is to get around in OKC by car. With the exception of the 5:00 rush minute on I-35, I-40 and I-235, I can get from nearly any point A to nearly any point B in OKC in thirty minutes or less. IMO, almost any upscale large department store or a grocery store with the appeal of a Whole Foods would prosper at any location between NW 23rd and the OK River and Lincoln to Classen. What we sure don't need anywhere near downtown is a repeat of the Bel Isle pile of the same 'ol crapola.

BDP
03-17-2006, 12:47 PM
Good points ODG. The trick is to get the decision makers to look past some of the raw data and get on the ground to uderstand the market better. Despite having 600 square miles of land, a 40 minute drive easily gets you from one side of the city to another, usually with time to spare. If you're not careful, 40 minutes of driving puts you in Norman or Guthrie.

soonerguru
03-17-2006, 01:52 PM
Right on, ODG! Couldn't agree more.

May I register my frustration at what feels like a blisteringly slow pace toward downtown housing in this city. We have been talking about this residential renaissance now for about a decade. And what do we have? The Deep Deuce, two aging dinosaurs, and the Montgomery. How many units are even the Montgomery? I only ask this because this promised transformation of our downtown into a "24 hour" lifestyle is crawling at a dreadfully slow pace.

As an alternative, check out Little Rock:http://www.downtownlr.com/index.php?fuseaction=p0008.&mod=23&PHPSESSID=c46f853b2f1f394c2a2525408131a7e6

That city has quietly moved very quickly on hundreds (thousands?) of downtown units of all stripes: lofts, condos, rentals, townhomes, high rises, medium rises. That, and they have created a vibrant downtown MARKET area, with ECLECTIC, LOCALLY OWNED, UNIQUE, shopping, dining and entertainment, with a real STREET CAR, that wends its way throughout their downtown area.

Sometimes I think the folks in OKC like to pat themselves on the back too much. I've no problem with high morale and a little good ole fashioned cheerleading, but we have a LOT of work to do to make this a remotely urbane city, and we are NOT there yet. Worse yet, there doesn't seem to be much urgency to make it happen faster.

We need to get on the stick and start making these projects move quicker. It's sad to think OKC has fallen behind Little Rock on urban revitalization.

Moondog
03-17-2006, 02:29 PM
Sometimes I think the folks in OKC like to pat themselves on the back too much. I've no problem with high morale and a little good ole fashioned cheerleading, but we have a LOT of work to do to make this a remotely urbane city, and we are NOT there yet. Worse yet, there doesn't seem to be much urgency to make it happen faster.

I agree! Sometimes I wonder if some of these people who harp on how great and successful Oklahoma City is have ever left town. Sure, it's come a long way. But there's a lot more to be done.

BDP
03-17-2006, 03:36 PM
That city has quietly moved very quickly on hundreds (thousands?) of downtown units of all stripes: lofts, condos, rentals, townhomes, high rises, medium rises.

A lot of what they have on that site says ..coming soon. And how long did it really take? Have you followed it from the beginning? When OKC's downtown hosing comes online, it will be considered quickly and quietly by most people and definately by the people in Little Rock. A lot of it is perspective.

I agree OKC is behind and shouldn't be patting itself on the back for anything concerning downtown at this point. It is not living up to its potential, but it is moving towards it. Actually what has happened in 10 years is impressive and happened quietly to most people outside of OKC.

It's hard becuase of how much better it is getting, but also how much opportunity some of these developers are just pissing away. In my mind 2007 will be a year like 98/99 when you could actually feel the city changing with things in bricktown. Next year we will really know if housing and increased hotel space will work in OKC.

shane453
03-17-2006, 05:20 PM
May I register my frustration at what feels like a blisteringly slow pace toward downtown housing in this city. We have been talking about this residential renaissance now for about a decade. And what do we have? The Deep Deuce, two aging dinosaurs, and the Montgomery. How many units are even the Montgomery? I only ask this because this promised transformation of our downtown into a "24 hour" lifestyle is crawling at a dreadfully slow pace.

You could look at it as things are going slow, or you can look at the fact that we have 2,048 units proposed for the inner city, many of them in the last half of last year. If the residential part of the renaissance has been going on for a decade, I didn't know about it. I think residential is just now kicking in (other than the few mentioned projects above).

jdsplaypin
04-18-2006, 08:43 PM
Has the skyline snapshot been updated? My comp. wont load it for some reason.

Midtowner
04-18-2006, 08:47 PM
I have a feeling that with downtown's central location, as far as a housing renaissance, the party's just getting started. As gas prices go up, people are going to seek out more centralized locations. OKC is very lucky in that downtown is about as central as it gets.

escan
04-19-2006, 08:24 AM
Just to chime in on the retail portion...we live in Crown Heights and I would gladly drive anywhere in the OKC area for a decent grocery store. There was an article in USA Today yesterday about "destination groceries" w/ gourmet cheeses, organic veggies, etc. (Think Whole Food or Trader Joes) and I hardly ever get out of the area from Bricktown to Hefner (ish), but would for a great grocery. Our big drawback, I've heard, is the fact that some of these stores rely heavily on wine sales and you can't buy a stinking bottle of wine in the grocery store here.

okcpulse
04-19-2006, 11:32 AM
I agree! Sometimes I wonder if some of these people who harp on how great and successful Oklahoma City is have ever left town. Sure, it's come a long way. But there's a lot more to be done.

Well, now, I left town. I live in Houston now. And hearing the positive things they are saying about Oklahoma City, a pat on the back is well deserved.

But yes, much still needs to be done. In building a successful big city, there should never be that point of 'Okay, we're done. We have an awesome city and there's nothing else that needs to be done'. Oklahoma City should never let that happen.

okcpulse
04-19-2006, 11:34 AM
I've heard, is the fact that some of these stores rely heavily on wine sales and you can't buy a stinking bottle of wine in the grocery store here.

As I have said many times, write you legislature. The greatest chance of Oklahoma's liquor laws ever changing drastically to where grocery stores in Oklahoma can sell wine is if a new set of liquor laws are put to the vote of the people.

Uptown
04-19-2006, 11:37 AM
Allowing liquor to be sold in grocery stores might clean up some of the low end liquor stores we have in town, that are currently nothing but blight.

John
04-19-2006, 01:06 PM
Tattoos are about to become legal. I think stupid liquor laws should be the next 'thing' people go after, whether it be liquor at groceries, chilled beer/wine/champagne at liquor stores, or 3.2 beer.

Once we get those bass ackwards laws knocked dead, we'll have some of the retailers mentioned above giddy about the OKC market.