Interesting. So the owners are trying to sell the theatre, hopefully to the Fowler VW guy.

Interesting. So the owners are trying to sell the theatre, hopefully to the Fowler VW guy.

Yes that was speculated on previously in post number 656,

Heard from a restaurant owner on 9th St. that there is a plan in place to convert the tower theater to a concept similar to the Granada in Dallas. He is familiar with the situation and seemed pretty sure that the project is going to happen. I know something like this was discussed a while ago on this thread, so I guess this would be an update. Not sure when it will start, I'll see if I can get more out of him on it next time I'm down there.

Hopefully he's right, would be a great anchor for the block. Here is a shot of the Granada.
3849

Heard from a restaurant owner on 9th St. that there is a plan in place to convert the tower theater to a concept similar to the Granada in Dallas. He is familiar with the situation and seemed pretty sure that the project is going to happen. I know something like this was discussed a while ago on this thread, so I guess this would be an update. Not sure when it will start, I'll see if I can get more out of him on it next time I'm down there.

Hopefully he's right, would be a great anchor for the block. Here is a shot of the Granada.
3849

That would be awesome! I love the Granada.

Yes, awesome if true!

Really, really hope this happens. If it does, 23rd Street will have officially reached a significant tipping point and I bet many more dominos will start to fall, ala Deep Deuce.

http://granadatheater.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/telegraph-canyon.jpg

http://granadatheater.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/21a1-605x550.jpg

Yes, awesome if true!

Really, really hope this happens. If it does, 23rd Street will have officially reached a significant tipping point and I bet many more dominos will start to fall, ala Deep Deuce.

http://granadatheater.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/telegraph-canyon.jpg

http://granadatheater.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/21a1-605x550.jpg

Awesome. This is a major thing OKC has been missing for a long time and if it comes to pass, it will be a major boon for the city. Maybe OKC can start attracting some popular independent acts that currently go to Tulsa and play at Cain's.

Is this the same thing that involved a Fowler VW owner in post 656?


Are things finally in the works for the Tower Theater as per Steve's blog?
An Interest Worth Watching | OKC Central (http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/12/29/an-interest-worth-watching/)

Yeah, I keep hearing John's name linked with the Tower Theatre and I believe he's the organizer of the Norman Music Festival so it makes sense that it would be a music venue. Maybe that would encourage a restaurant or two to go in on that block.

This would be huge. It's been my hope all along that it would become a music venue.

If this and the Gold Dome both became music venues, a mixed-use development a la the Edge and some more bars developed, this would easily be one of the most popular streets in the city. Add in an eventual streetcar route...

This would be huge. It's been my hope all along that it would become a music venue.

If this and the Gold Dome both became music venues, a mixed-use development a la the Edge and some more bars developed, this would easily be one of the most popular streets in the city. Add in an eventual streetcar route...

Didn't Steve say recently that someone had come forward with an idea for the Gold Dome? And depending on what Land Run decides to do with the land north of the Rise, you might see your mixed use 23rd St Edge.

I really get the feeling that if this comes to fruition, 23rd is just going to boom.

The Rise was a game changer, but a music venue redevelopment of the Tower Theater might be an even bigger deal.

The Rise was a game changer, but a music venue redevelopment of the Tower Theater might be an even bigger deal.

Agreed, it would provide a focal point for a legitimate entertainment district. Think something as good or even better than Tulsa's Brady district.

I love the idea of the theater being a music venue, but also the thought of the Gold Dome with something similar is a great idea as well. It would definitely be one of the most unusual music venues. Sometimes, I think we take unique architecture like the Gold Dome for granted. When people come to town and we drive by the Gold Dome they ALWAYS say something about it. It's just "there" for so many. Embrace what we have!

yeah, i keep hearing john's name linked with the tower theatre and i believe he's the organizer of the norman music festival so it makes sense that it would be a music venue. Maybe that would encourage a restaurant or two to go in on that block.

we need this to happen!

Update from Steve.

There may be some hope!

Tower Theater revival dream eludes Uptown | News OK (http://newsok.com/tower-theater-revival-dream-eludes-uptown/article/3881074)

If this deal hinges on the fact that he needs to sell the tax credits (transferable tax credits should be illegal IMO) then maybe it's time he sells the property and let someone else get it done. Then again it's his property so I guess he can do what he pleases. I guess I have nothing to add other than that transferable tax credits shouldn't be allowed.

If this deal hinges on the fact that he needs to sell the tax credits (transferable tax credits should be illegal IMO) then maybe it's time he sells the property and let someone else get it done. Then again it's his property so I guess he can do what he pleases. I guess I have nothing to add other than that transferable tax credits shouldn't be allowed.

Isn't that the method OKC used to fix up the Skirvin?

If this deal hinges on the fact that he needs to sell the tax credits (transferable tax credits should be illegal IMO) then maybe it's time he sells the property and let someone else get it done. Then again it's his property so I guess he can do what he pleases. I guess I have nothing to add other than that transferable tax credits shouldn't be allowed.

Tax credits are the government's and by extension (at least hypothetically) the people's way of incentivizing something. Now we can argue the merits of this or that particular tax credit, but the object of all of them is to increase the likelihood of a certain outcome happening. Selling a tax credit just seems like a logical outgrowth of this incentivization process. If selling the credit increases the likelihood of acheiving the desired outcome, then so much the better.

I'm not sure what the problem is with any of this. If its a bad tax credit it is a bad tax credit, sold or unsold. If it is a good tax credit than what difference does it make?

Update from Steve.

There may be some hope!

Tower Theater revival dream eludes Uptown | News OK (http://newsok.com/tower-theater-revival-dream-eludes-uptown/article/3881074)

Any idea what the name of the case is and which court it's in? I assume either the Eastern District of Virginia or Western District of Virginia if it's a federal issue that's going to have any effect in Oklahoma (though it would only be instructive and not binding if it is one of those two courts).

The comments on newsok.com never cease to amaze me. This is from the story:

Tony Patton · Top Commenter · Works at Oklahoma Natural Gas Company
"Give it to me and my wife and we will make it a clean, safe, solitary, recovery center and homeless shelter for the less fortunate of Oklahoma. EVERYONE who has vacant property should be doing something this easy. Especially as winter approaches."
Reply · 1 · Like

And yes, you read right, it got one like...

Nothing wrong with more homeless shelters and resources for them. I am all for that, but not at the Tower Theater. It seems that a lot of people here, especially those who comment on NewsOK, don't understand the value of creating a vibrant urban district or place making of any kind.

The guy owns the place. Hopefully he can eventually work it out. If it becomes a blight in the area it will have to be after the csl plasma and planned parenthood are out. Until then we only have or unhappiness with a loss of a good to worry about.

Also, hopefully the rumor of Fowler turning the spot into a music venue turns out to be true.

This guy is pretty serious about turning it into a homeless shelter and is trying to get the funding. What are the chances that could come to pass?

Tax credits are the government's and by extension (at least hypothetically) the people's way of incentivizing something. Now we can argue the merits of this or that particular tax credit, but the object of all of them is to increase the likelihood of a certain outcome happening. Selling a tax credit just seems like a logical outgrowth of this incentivization process. If selling the credit increases the likelihood of acheiving the desired outcome, then so much the better.

I'm not sure what the problem is with any of this. If its a bad tax credit it is a bad tax credit, sold or unsold. If it is a good tax credit than what difference does it make?

Because large companies that have nothing to do with a tax credit or the work that is being done to receive a tax credit will come in a buy those credits at a good discount, thus making their tax liability much less.

This guy is pretty serious about turning it into a homeless shelter and is trying to get the funding. What are the chances that could come to pass?

Surely zero.

This guy is pretty serious about turning it into a homeless shelter and is trying to get the funding. What are the chances that could come to pass?

Sarcasm? haha

Because large companies that have nothing to do with a tax credit or the work that is being done to receive a tax credit will come in a buy those credits at a good discount, thus making their tax liability much less.

A friend of mine sells tax credits for 95% on the dollar to some insurance companies, $50,000 at a time. Not like they are making a huge gain, they have to spend a lot to make it worth their while though.

A pending case about historic tax credits???? Funny this isn't affecting any other historic projects in the State. This is the most absurd excuse for the owner's lack of action yet!

Nothing wrong with more homeless shelters and resources for them. I am all for that, but not at the Tower Theater. It seems that a lot of people here, especially those who comment on NewsOK, don't understand the value of creating a vibrant urban district or place making of any kind.
Most of the commentary on news sites is inane at best, it is the bastion of the town idiots.


This guy is pretty serious about turning it into a homeless shelter and is trying to get the funding. What are the chances that could come to pass?

Surely zero.
Less than zero.....

So maybe a silly question, I can't tell from the floorplan how much of the 2nd floor on the front side is contiguous. That could be an office space at 9K sft. or even split it up for residential. Both have a demand in the area. With reatil on the bottom floor, it could happen. There's plenty retail activity around there as well.

Here's the thing though. This is going to have to be a long term investment project....not a flipper like so many developers want it to be. They won't be able to charge a high rent to recoup any renovation costs on any short-term because the retail in the area simply won't buy into it. There are too many cheaper alternatives given the economics of the area. You go charging a couple thousand a month and you're guranteed to not have a winning project. So i can appreciate the difficulty in getting things moving, but that's where things are going to have to break. Go into it with the desire to restore the place and have the economics of it be second to that, and you'll win here. Otherwise, it's just one more group of folks in a long line that just let the place rot.

It's a money pit, not a money maker. It was waaaaay too far gone. I'm sorry, but that's just how it is. I've been saying this for years and, so far, i've been right about each of these developers (much to the dislike of so many posters here). Time and time again someone will say "oh no, i know this guy. He's going to do it"....and it falls through and they sale at a loss.

I've heard from someone very involved with the 23rd Street revival that the tax credit issue is just another excuse by Dillion for not moving forward.

That there are plenty of people that have wanted to step in and invest or even buy him out, but he refuses and does not seem very motivated to do much of anything.


Dillion has owned this property for over eight years now and lots of people are starting to see his ownership as a real hindrance and would like for him just to sell the property and get out of the way of progress.

Any news on the ruling they were supposedly waiting on, or was that just a smoke screen (as mentioned by Pete's preceding post)?

I've heard from someone very involved with the 23rd Street revival that the tax credit issue is just another excuse by Dillion for not moving forward.

That there are plenty of people that have wanted to step in and invest or even buy him out, but he refuses and does not seem very motivated to do much of anything.


Dillion has owned this property for over eight years now and lots of people are starting to see his ownership as a real hindrance and would like for him just to sell the property and get out of the way of progress.

Gee it must be nice to have family cash to sink in a project and no community or financial obligations that require you to get an ROI.

I'm doing a NMTC appeal this week that I hope to be done with soon. This stuff ain't hard.

As for the fungibility or transferability of tax credits, eliminating that is the best way to render a tax credit program useless. Politically more salient than fighting it head on. There is no crime in selling a tax credit, I thought we wanted the free market to work for urban development?!?

Not exactly true Spartan, he still has to foot the bill of the actual property and annual property taxes; I wouldn't exactly call that "no financial obligations or ROI". As I understand it, the family business has been taking a hit due to the industry moving online and less brick and mortar. I don't know the state of their finances, nor their ability to rehab it, although I too would like to see the property move forward with redevelopment.

Alamo Drafthouse would be awesome in this space.

So what about Steve's reference to Dillon finally doing something with the theater? Is he going to repurpose it for something other than a music venue, or will we have rival venues next door to each other?

So what about Steve's reference to Dillon finally doing something with the theater? Is he going to repurpose it for something other than a music venue, or will we have rival venues next door to each other?

Fingers crossed...Alamo Draft House concept.

Fingers crossed...Alamo Draft House concept.

That would be a winner.

Fingers crossed...Alamo Draft House concept.

You and me both. It's the perfect fit for that space!

So what about Steve's reference to Dillon finally doing something with the theater? Is he going to repurpose it for something other than a music venue, or will we have rival venues next door to each other?

I really, really hope something happens here soon but they've talked about starting work many times over the last several years.

Perhaps momentum has come to the point where he almost has to do something now.

You and me both. It's the perfect fit for that space!

Not so sure Is there room for 6 screens and a bar inside the tower?

The space here is smaller than you may think.

The theater itself is just over 8,000 square feet; there is about another 16,000 square feet in retail/office space surrounding it.


Here is the quote from Steve's article:


Dillon said after repeated delays in redeveloping the theater and adjoining storefronts to the west, he is ready to move forward and has secured financing. Dillon previously indicated he was uncertain how to proceed due to legal questions involving the sale of federal historic tax credits.

“We've met with our bankers,” Dillon said. “We're moving forward even with the tax credits on hold. We hope to have a lease to fund the deal.”

I've thought all along that the move by the group to do the live music venue was nothing more than a proposal to light some fire under Dillon. Similar to the scheme by the Gold dome owners to find someone to put some money into it by threatening to raze it.

I've thought all along that the move by the group to do the live music venue was nothing more than a proposal to light some fire under Dillon. Similar to the scheme by the Gold dome owners to find someone to put some money into it by threatening to raze it.

I wondered the same. But this is a Dallas-based guy doing the other venue, right? If so, that would be a lot of effort just to get Dillon off of high center. According to Pete, this is an actual proposal going before city committees.

Ha. Maybe Dillon can raise some funds by charging for parking for the shows next door.

I was told that the proprietors of the music venue offered to lease the Tower parking until the Tower was re-opened, and Dillon refused.

Interestingly, he expressed worry about parking for the new venue in Steve's article.

"We hope to have a lease to fund the deal.”

I was told that the proprietors of the music venue offered to lease the Tower parking until the Tower was re-opened, and Dillon refused.

Interestingly, he expressed worry about parking for the new venue in Steve's article.

He seems adverse to cash flow.

^

I think he doesn't want them going in next to his property and is thus being uncooperative.

Dillon is appearing more and more like an idiot over this whole deal. Honestly, he's had proposals and deals and is shooting them down for what? Ridiculous.

^

That's a little harsh.

Dillon has done a lot of work -- not the least of which getting the iconic sign restored -- and bought in long before that district had much momentum.

All will be forgiven if he moves forward, particularly with a good concept.

it's simple...my guess is he wanted the proprietors of this other place to come up on their offer when they were in negotiations. they must have drawn a line and took this new route. now, dillon is trying to use his leverage with the parking.

it's simple...my guess is he wanted the proprietors of this other place to come up on their offer when they were in negotiations. they must have drawn a line and took this new route. now, dillon is trying to use his leverage with the parking.

Could be. At the end of the day, though, if this Granada group does move in and is successful, it proves viability, which may ultimately help Dillon with investors. Part of me suspects that he's pretty emotionally attached to the Tower and may just not want to give up as much control/interest as it may take to fund a renovation.

But at least we have a developer that is in it for the long haul, not just a quick turnaround guy. I've been a staunch critic of most of the so-called re-developers of Tower over the years. Everyone makes grand claims on what they're going to do to bring it back, and nothing happens...other than it being in worse shape than it was before. At least we've seen some progress here. It's slow going, but the changes 23rd has seen in the last 5 years are amazing. If there was ever a right time to be in the area, this is it. Are we going to see a movie theater, nope. But do we have options for something else, absolutely. Im sure hes been looking for years for what that "fit" is, and we have no idea from the outside what all is happening. But he gets a lot of extra slack in my book for hanging in there and continuing to try. I wish we had more like him...especially downtown.

What I would love to see done is for Marty to do the renovations (store fronts, offices upstairs and any major structural renovations that need to be done to the theatre) and then lease out the theatre to a third party. With a live music venue going in next door, I am not sure he knows what to do with it now. An Alamo Draft House would be a great idea in theory but all of their locations have multiple theatres, not just one like the Tower. I predict we will see something like the Will Rogers Theatre Banquet Hall within the next couple of years. The parking lot will be redone across the street in asphalt and will be full a lot of the time due to the increasing popularity of 23rd street.

Pete, do we know if Marty owns all of the parking across the street or just the area across from the Tower Theatre? There is a smaller lot to the west of the parking lot that could be someone else's property.

Does anyone not think it'd be cool to turn this into a small local movie theatre with one or two screens? I've been thinking this for awhile, but haven't said anything.

From KFOR yesterday:

Oklahoma City landmark is getting a facelift in new project

Posted on: 4:57 pm, November 18, 2013, by Andrew Donley, updated on: 06:04pm, November 18, 2013

OKLAHOMA CITY - Built in 1931,the Tower Theatre has been a landmark on N.W. 23rd St. for over 70 years and now it is getting a bit of a facelift.

This isn’t the first time the theatre has seen a update but it has been a while.

The facility was last renovated in 1968 before being abandoned in 1989.

It was left to deteriorate for over 20 years until it was purchased by a pair of brothers with a big idea.

Mike and Marty Dillion have known what they want to do with the theatre for a while but plans had been on hold.

They say they were waiting on federal and state funding to restore the building to its previous glory.

While federal funding is still on hold, they are now being backed by Quail Creek Bank.

By mid-summer of next year, the brothers plan to finish the first round of construction on shops around the theatre.

The second phase of the project will focus on the Tower Theatre itself.

However, they haven’t released information on a completion date yet.

Oklahoma City landmark is getting a facelift in new project | KFOR.com (http://kfor.com/2013/11/18/oklahoma-city-landmark-is-getting-a-facelift-in-new-project/)

By mid-summer of next year, the brothers plan to finish the first round of construction on shops around the theatre.

The second phase of the project will focus on the Tower Theatre itself.

Given the success of The Rise and the live music venue going in immediately east, they almost have to get the retail space on the market. That is what you see from the street anyway -- the theater is actually behind that front retail space.

To further elaborate what I was saying about the retail/office space versus the theater, you can see that of the 25,000+ square feet, that 16,000 of that is storefront space facing 23rd, 9,000 sf are in the 2nd level office space and then the theater itself is only 8,556 sf -- and it's actually located well behind the first-level store fronts.

The most important thing to the district at this point is to renovate the store fronts and bring some life to that long-vacant strip. The theater itself could be very cool, but it's actually only a third of the total space in this development:

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/urban-development-buildings/2960d1354203139-tower-theater-tower5.jpg