Just curious what you think about this....

If a person who is mentally ill with schizophrenia committed suicide do you think God would grant them enternal life? If this person had a good heart but had an illness that took control of them should they have to pay for it by eternity in hell? I don't think so.

I don't think a person should be frowned upon by anyone, major deities included, for taking their life for any reason. It's sad, yes, especially when the cause of their suicidal thoughts are from disease. I don't understand this whole "sin is sin" concept where swearing is just as bad as murdering an innocent, and where being gay is as bad as genocide. How does that make sense? I think if there is a higher power, they have the ability to make decisions based on the person, not some set of rules. Rules are often made to be broken.

Does a fish think it's unsanitary to swim in his own pee?

What the heck kind of question is that? How could anyone purport to know what divine judgment awaits someone.

Now, if I were going to examine this logically (which is an error when you're talking about religion), I'd first assume the premise that God gave us free will so that we may be able to choose between good and evil. For those who do not possess free will (some extreme cases of schizophrenia, etc.), where's our standard to judge whether they exercised that free will in a responsible manner?

Of course, if you're a Calvinist, none of that matters, to hell they go.

It was just a question to see what other people felt about it. I feel like God truly knows a person's heart and if they are suffering from an illness that he would have mercy on their soul.

It was just a question to see what other people felt about it. I feel like God truly knows a person's heart and if they are suffering from an illness that he would have mercy on their soul.
It was a good question, too. Don't worry about MidTowner, because he is rude and obnoxious to everyone. BTW, sin is sin, whether it is swearing or murder. No sin is worse than another sin, according to God. As society, we grade sins. We may believe murder is a worse sin than swearing, but God sees sin as sin.

In my opinion, a person who is mentally incapacitated, and has been all of their life, are not capable of knowing right from wrong. For that reason, I believe they will go to heaven. Now, if that person was normal growing up and the disease hit them all of a sudden, then it depends on the decision they made when they weren't sick. During the time they were healthy, they knew right from wrong, so they had the ability to make the serious decision to accept Jesus in to their heart. Once they made that decision, then they are going to heaven no matter what.

It's the same as the death of a baby. The baby is innocent and doesn't get the chance to learn right from wrong. If the baby dies, then that baby goes to heaven.

As far as suicide is concerned, if that person has accepted Jesus as their Saviour and they kill themselves, I do believe they will go to heaven.

God is a merciful God, however, if the person has the mental ability to understand right from wrong, then they need to make that choice. Choose God and heaven, or not choose God. I do agree, though, that he is merciful enough to let those that are mentally ill all their life to die and go to heaven.

Eternity, hmmmmmm? Eternity has no beginning nor end, right? Then, if that is so, we are in eternity as we speak, so do we begin to reap our just rewards as we live or after we take our last physical breath? And do we attribute our rewards to a higher power or Karma, or are they both one and the same? Sometimes, questions are better than answers to help someone reach their own conclusions

It was a good question, too. Don't worry about MidTowner, because he is rude and obnoxious to everyone. BTW, sin is sin, whether it is swearing or murder. No sin is worse than another sin, according to God. As society, we grade sins. We may believe murder is a worse sin than swearing, but God sees sin as sin.


Personal attacks are agains the TOS.

:omg:

Personal attacks are agains the TOS.

:omg:

Geesh. Scribe needs to read this one.

Anyhow, a psycho doesn't know right from wrong. They're exempt from hell.

If god knows that person and knows that person is mentally ill and can commit suicide then god will and can find a way for that person to get help. He may not be able to help all the ones that need it but the mojority of them will one way or another find help or help will knock on there door. Take me for example, I became severe depressed came close to it, had a plan, but for some reason I never had understood I told the one person that caused me to break in my depression, he pushed me over the edge, I told him of my plan and exactly word for word what I was going to do, and he went to my boss, was at work at the time, they took me to the hospital. NOw was that luck or was god watching over me and saying not yet, I am helping you out, I don't know. I am still puzzled still today why I said what I was going to do. That was alomost two years ago. I think if the person has a good heart did not so anything bad like burglary, murder, or beat someone then I think they will be treated right and go to the right place wether they commit sucide or are taking for other reasons.

I want to see in the Bible where it says all sins are equal. I've never seen that passage, if it exists.

I just can't wrap my little unreligious mind around the concept that I am just as bad as Sadam Hussein because I occasionally swear and he caused the deaths of hundreds or thousands of people. How is that equal?

So a schizophrenic would go to heaven...what about a "normal" person who commits suicide?

I just can't wrap my little unreligious mind around the concept that I am just as bad as Sadam Hussein because I occasionally swear and he caused the deaths of hundreds or thousands of people. How is that equal?

I can't wrap my little religious mind around that concept either, bandnerd.

So a schizophrenic would go to heaven...what about a "normal" person who commits suicide?

This is a "Think" question, Daisy. What is normal?

Uhhh...an individual who is not diagnosed as mentally ill. For example, a person who is not a schizophrenic.

That is the common definition. However, there is not really a "normal." What is normal for one is not normal for another.

Uhhh...an individual who is not diagnosed as mentally ill. For example, a person who is not a schizophrenic.

So, the difference in Heaven and Hell is a diagnosis? My unreligous mind can't wrap around that concept either.

I tend to think that Hell is just having to do it all over again until you get it (whatever IT is) right and Heaven is where you actually get an A on your life's report card and get to go on your life long dream vacation, where ever that may be.

Kind of like "Groundhog's Day." Cool concept lol.

If you commit suicide you're obviously mentally ill. You have depression, which is a mental illness.

The question is not one of normalcy vs. non-normalcy. It's one of can the person mentally separate right from wrong.

So, the difference in Heaven and Hell is a diagnosis? My unreligous mind can't wrap around that concept either.

I tend to think that Hell is just having to do it all over again until you get it (whatever IT is) right and Heaven is where you actually get an A on your life's report card and get to go on your life long dream vacation, where ever that may be.

Hell is an eternal punishment of separation from God.

Here's Billy Graham's view on degree of sins:


Q: Are all sins the same in God's eyes?



A: It is always difficult and dangerous to attempt to list sins according to their degree of seriousness. In one sense, all sins are equal in that they all separate us from God. The Bible's statement, "For the wages of sin is death ..." (Romans 6:23), applies to all sin, whether of thought, word, or deed.

At the same time, it seems obvious that some sins are worse than others in both motivation and effects and should be judged accordingly. Stealing a loaf of bread is vastly different than exterminating a million people. Sins may also differ at their root. Theologians have sought for centuries to determine what the essence of sin is. Some have chosen sensuality, others selfishness, and still others pride or unbelief. In the Old Testament, God applied different penalties to different sins, suggesting variations in the seriousness of some sins. A thief paid restitution; an occult practitioner was cut off from Israel; one who committed adultery or a homosexual act or cursed his parents was put to death (see Exodus, chapter 22 and Leviticus, chapter 20).

In the New Testament Jesus said it would be more bearable on the day of judgment for Sodom than for Capernaum because of Capernaum's unbelief and refusal to repent at His miracles (Matthew 11:23-24). The sins of Sodom were identified in Ezekiel 16:21 as arrogance, gluttony, indifference to the poor and needy, haughtiness, and "detestable things." When Jesus spoke of his second coming and judgment, he warned that among those deserving punishment some would "be beaten with many blows" and others "with few blows" (Luke 12:47-48). He also reserved His most fierce denunciations for the pride and unbelief of the religious leaders, not the sexually immoral (Matthew 23:13-36).

However, remember that whether our sins be relatively small or great, they will place us in hell apart from God's grace. The good news is that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins and the sins of the whole world at the Cross. If we will repent and turn to Jesus in faith, our sins will be forgiven, and we will receive the gift of eternal life.

Hell is an eternal punishment of separation from God.

Hi Jack,

Just exactly how long is eternity?

So a schizophrenic would go to heaven...what about a "normal" person who commits suicide?

I don't think it is "normal" to commit suicide. Whether a person has been diagnosed with a mental illness or not they obviously have a problem to be able to take their own life.

I just thought that I had heard before that committing suicide is an unforgiveable sin in the bible...

I don't think it is "normal" to commit suicide. Whether a person has been diagnosed with a mental illness or not they obviously have a problem to be able to take their own life.

I just thought that I had heard before that committing suicide is an unforgiveable sin in the bible...

No, that's a man-made sin. Bible doesn't mention it.

Hi Jack,

Just exactly how long is eternity?

From dictionary.com:

2 entries found for eternity.

e·ter·ni·ty http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3 Fq%3Deternity) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gif-tûrhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifnhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gif-thttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/emacr.gif)
n. pl. e·ter·ni·ties
Time without beginning or end; infinite time.
The state or quality of being eternal.
<LI type=a>The timeless state following death.
The afterlife; immortality.
A very long or seemingly endless time: waited in the dentist's office for an eternity.

What do you mean? Only sins that aren't "man-made" are mentioned in the Bible?

What do you mean? Only sins that aren't "man-made" are mentioned in the Bible?

LOL!. Yeah. For example, another man-made law is that you have to go to church every Sunday or you're going to hell.

Hi Jack,

Just exactly how long is eternity?

Next time you don't know the definition of a word, I've found that the dictionary helps. You might try it out. :Smiley112

Suicide isn't mention in the bible but references to men killing themselves are mentioned.

From dictionary.com:

2 entries found for eternity.
)
n. pl. e·ter·ni·ties
Time without beginning or end; infinite time.
The state or quality of being eternal.
<LI type=a>The timeless state following death.
The afterlife; immortality.
A very long or seemingly endless time: waited in the dentist's office for an eternity.

So Jack, Eternity is without a beginning nor end, correct? Then are we not in eternity as we speak? So, why would one think that eternal reward or punishment begins at a certain point in eternity, why would anyone think that our rewards or punishments (if one believes in that sort of thing) only chooses to begin after one takes their last natural, physical breath?

What do you mean? Only sins that aren't "man-made" are mentioned in the Bible?

It depended on the agenda of the interpreter at that particular time what was included in each and every interpretation. And yes, everyone has/had an agenda. Why do you think that the "King James Version" is named just that? It was his version. The first set of scribes that he hired to interpret the bible were not interpreting it as he personally saw it, so he not only fired them, but had them killed...the next set of interpreters learned from the example and thus, you have the "King James Version" of what is now referred at the Holy Bible. One has to remember that the bible or what went into the bible was not a day by day account of what was happening at the time. It was set to words by those who listened to others who got their stories from their families and whoever had an opinion or agenda at the time. It was all subject to interpretation when it was repeated down through the years, then again when it was put to text, then again many times each time it was interpreted from one language to another, and finally, today's clergy that think that they have it all figured out. One cannot take literally the Bible, otherwise, hands would be severed for thieves, adulterers would be stoned, etc, but on the other hand, how can one just pick and choose what to believe at all? So, your question about what is included in the bible? It will have to remain unanswered and commmon sense will have to prevail.

So Jack, Eternity is without a beginning nor end, correct? Then are we not in eternity as we speak? So, why would one think that eternal reward or punishment begins at a certain point in eternity, why would anyone think that our rewards or punishments (if one believes in that sort of thing) only chooses to begin after one takes their last natural, physical breath?

I'm not Jack, but I'll answer. Actually, we're not in eternity. Eventually life on earth will end as we know it. The sun only has enough hydrogen gas to power itself for so many years. Also, life ends when you die. But, eternity extends after death. Everyone enters eternity, it's simply a matter of where you spend it. Rewards and punishments after death are based on how you lived your life and what decisions you made during your life. You have a span of typically less than 100 years to decide your eternal fate, after death.

I'm not Jack, but I'll answer. Actually, we're not in eternity. Eventually life on earth will end as we know it. The sun only has enough hydrogen gas to power itself for so many years. Also, life ends when you die. But, eternity extends after death. Everyone enters eternity, it's simply a matter of where you spend it. Rewards and punishments after death are based on how you lived your life and what decisions you made during your life. You have a span of typically less than 100 years to decide your eternal fate, after death.

Patrick, thank you for your response. You seem to be choosing to intrepret life, eternity, rewards and punishments from Christianity's limited perception of reality. Assuming you use Buddhism's perception of reality, life and eternity have no beginning or end; That life itself is eternal. Life is energy and therefore, cannot be destroyed. How do you know that life ends when your physical body dies? Are you basing that on your own experience or the experiences of those you know who have returned from the dead? By it's very definition, eternity has no beginning nor end, how can you say that we are not in eternity now? In the same context, how can you say that it starts when someone dies?

.......if God lives in eternity and eternity is timeless........hmmmmm?

The question is not one of normalcy vs. non-normalcy. It's one of can the person mentally separate right from wrong.

Actually, the DSM-IV has a fairly acceptable version of what is 'normal' for the purposes of a discussion like this :)

And yes, you're right. It's more a question of mental lucidity than normalcy.

Actually, the DSM-IV has a fairly acceptable version of what is 'normal' for the purposes of a discussion like this :)

And yes, you're right. It's more a question of mental lucidity than normalcy.
You're funny:LolLolLol

You're funny:LolLolLol

You're over 50 years old.

Amazing.
:headscrat

That is amazing. Kind of surprising... but then again, maybe not.
.

Our spirits live in eternity. Our spirit is alive right now and will be alive after our body here dies if we make the right decisions in life. Therefore, our spirits live in eternity.

It depended on the agenda of the interpreter at that particular time what was included in each and every interpretation. And yes, everyone has/had an agenda. Why do you think that the "King James Version" is named just that? It was his version. The first set of scribes that he hired to interpret the bible were not interpreting it as he personally saw it, so he not only fired them, but had them killed...the next set of interpreters learned from the example and thus, you have the "King James Version" of what is now referred at the Holy Bible. One has to remember that the bible or what went into the bible was not a day by day account of what was happening at the time. It was set to words by those who listened to others who got their stories from their families and whoever had an opinion or agenda at the time. It was all subject to interpretation when it was repeated down through the years, then again when it was put to text, then again many times each time it was interpreted from one language to another, and finally, today's clergy that think that they have it all figured out. One cannot take literally the Bible, otherwise, hands would be severed for thieves, adulterers would be stoned, etc, but on the other hand, how can one just pick and choose what to believe at all? So, your question about what is included in the bible? It will have to remain unanswered and commmon sense will have to prevail.

GrandMaMa, I'm so glad you brought this up. I've often wondered, when people say "the bible says", which version are they using? Which one is correct? Which passages are to be taken literally?

Shucks, I'll stick with the 10 commandments...they at least make sense to me. :)

[QUOTE=okcgoddess]Our spirits live in eternity. Our spirit is alive right now and will be alive after our body here dies if we make the right decisions in life. Therefore, our spirits live in eternity.[/QU

If our spirits live in eternity, and our spirit is alive right now and will be alive after our body here dies, when did it begin? When eternity began? If eternity has no beginning nor end, then that must apply to your spirit as well, right?

[QUOTE=okcgoddess]Our spirits live in eternity. Our spirit is alive right now and will be alive after our body here dies if we make the right decisions in life. Therefore, our spirits live in eternity.[/QU

If our spirits live in eternity, and our spirit is alive right now and will be alive after our body here dies, when did it begin? When eternity began? If eternity has no beginning nor end, then that must apply to your spirit as well, right?


Well obviously I don't know all the correct ways to explain and define eternity. But I do know what I believe to be true in my heart and what feels right. I do believe my spirit has been in existence even before my human life was. I also believe that my spirit will continue to exist in heaven after my human life ends here. No one can possible tell you when it all began. We are just humans... science can't explain everything.. especially the spiritual side to humans.

I don't think you can honestly get the true answer to your questions on eternity. You have to go with what your mind and soul tells you, IMO. God of course knows how and when it all began.

GrandMaMa, I'm so glad you brought this up. I've often wondered, when people say "the bible says", which version are they using? Which one is correct? Which passages are to be taken literally?

Shucks, I'll stick with the 10 commandments...they at least make sense to me. :)

Which ten commandments? Protestant, Catholic or Hebrew? In fact, there are even differences within the particular bibles.

So, again, we will have to go "within" to know good and yes, again, common sense will have to prevail.

[QUOTE=GrandMaMa]


Well obviously I don't know all the correct ways to explain and define eternity. But I do know what I believe to be true in my heart and what feels right. I do believe my spirit has been in existence even before my human life was. I also believe that my spirit will continue to exist in heaven after my human life ends here. No one can possible tell you when it all began. We are just humans... science can't explain everything.. especially the spiritual side to humans.

:congrats: I couldn't agree with you more! And that was my point. It's what's in your heart, and yes, if you go there,(within) you can tell truth from what others are spouting as truth with such authority. Fact is, unless our body has died and we have gone on to whatever there is, all we do know is what is inside of us, everything else is strictly heresay. I also commend you for not claiming to know all of the answers, but giving yourself the credit it justly deserves.:yourock: