I went. It was interesting. Carter Burgess "unveiled" their concept master plan for light rail in the OKC metro. There was probably 35 people there who talked about the possibilities. Routes indicated over 25 years would stretch from Norman to Edmond with express busses in HOV lanes up Northwest Expressway and the airport.

However, I aggree with Mick Cornet; the use/support for Light Rail will require "a change in mentality by our citizens". He is quite correct. Most people do not appreciate public transportation and are bound to there cars.

One segment of Carter-Burgess's plan calls for a local "Modern Street Car" throughout downtown. I think that they should install that first as it would be a minimum investment and people would support it as more people move downtown. It would also help alleviate the parking disparity by allowing people to park in other places and use the street car to get in.

The most important part is that people from all over will be pleasantly surprised and expect expansion of the system. Then they can move into the other "commutter" areas.

This needs to be part of Maps III. Since it looks like Henry will stomp Istook out office, maby it will slip through the Mormon Mophia.

Portland, Dallas, Jacksonville, San Francisco started small and grew. We need to do this for our future.

They have a rubber tire system which I think would get a lot more use if they would allow people to buy monthly passes for unlimited use.

I just don't always have a quarter on me, so I walk.

They have a rubber tire system which I think would get a lot more use if they would allow people to buy monthly passes for unlimited use.

I just don't always have a quarter on me, so I walk.

Monthly passes are key. After I moved back from Bologna, I missed taking the bus everyday from my apartment to the center. Fortunately, OSU has developed an awesome public bus system that I can ride around town to get my fix.

The light rail in the Netherlands is awesome...

Amsterdam
http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Erajvdb/lra/afb/combino2.jpg
http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Erajvdb/lra/afb/adam02.jpg

Rotterdam
http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Erajvdb/lra/afb/rdam-tramplus01.jpg

RijnGouwelijn (Leiden)
http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Erajvdb/lra/afb/rgouw-breestr001.jpg

Thanks for the great pics of Amsterdam--- You know what i'm talking about..

Indeed Urban Pioneer, 25 years is too long to wait. By then Istooks Mormon Mafia will have too far advanced his ally and our competitor Salt Lake City. It will take a mentality shift here which I think exists more than people realize but we need to do more public awareness. A electric street car system downtown would be a great start and fairly inexpensive. Heck, we could even raise the Hotel Tax a few cents more and still be lower than most cities and this would easily pay for a system.

Yes Steve, I attended as well and wanted to say hello to you but had another engagement, and left right at 7:00 just as the guy began to sort of rant about there being a lot of buried street car tracks (which is ture) that we could dig up and get a streetcar line going right away. I think that is a little Polly Annaish and more about being pissed that so much of OKC's rail infrastructure has been discarded and more of the same on the horizion. I would like to believe that it was that simple too, but I don't think it is. It's sort of like remodeling an old house. Sure, you have some things to start with, but uncovering, recovering and refurbishing is usually just as expensive and more time consuming than building from scratch, but a hell of a lot more romantic. I am also still pretty pissed about all that OKC has tossed in the ash bin as well, but am trying to channel that energy to better use these days.

I am still open to other opinions, but curently, I disagree with doing the street car porion first, although I would personally benefit from having that system in place ASAP rather than seeing it completed when I am about 90 based on the time line in the presentation. To demonstrate the broader public benefit necessary to get the Feds on board, The City must improve the existing bus system first. Also, I think that the Phase I light rail segment as proposed would attract lots of ridership and really ignite enormous demand for more.

One thing that I have suggested in written comments and will follow up on with City Council is that the some of the existing rubber tired trolleys be used to implement service on the entire propsed Modern Streetcar loop ASAP. The equipment should be available based on Larry Hopper's comments that they have scaled back somewhat on the downtown/bricktown routes. That would serve as a market test for the potential future ridership of the proposed Modern Streetcar Line and provide immediate linkage between the OU and St. Anthony Medical Centers, Downtown, Midtown and Bricktown.

I also totally agree with using passes. Fumbling with quarterts is a pain.

I understand and agree with most of your points old downtownguy. We need to implement some kind of system bus or the tire trolley's now and expand on them.

Great point, downtown guy. I would contend, however, that the buses have a certain stigma in this market that shiny new trains would not. To put it bluntly, ridership woes are not just due to the lousy service routes and times, and people's fixation with automobiles, but also due to the snobbish, "whitey" view that "we aren't the kind of people who ride the bus." It's ridiculous and infuriating, but that perception is there in OKC.

It's not just the Nichols Hills folks, it's the young yuppies who aspire to live in Nichols Hills who view things that way.

There's a class enigma to bus ridership in Oklahoma City -- and probably throughout the South.

Rubber tire trolleys are more of a novelty, if anything, and they aren't associated in people's minds here with transportation. They're something to ride once a year for fun to get a little closer to the fireworks. That's unfortunate, but that's how they have been introduced. Something kinda "fun" for the tourists.

We need actual transportation, not cheesy throwback crap. Modern rail trains would set a new standard, and their impact cannot be theoretically measured by a few dry runs with rubber tire tourist trolleys.

Part of changing the mentality about transportation is to actually provide some to people in a way they can integrate into their lives. A bus service that stops running at 6 p.m. ain't getting it done. A trolley that delivers tourists to Bricktown but forces them to get back on by 10 p.m. if they want a return trip to their hotel isn't getting it done.

I am not suggesting that middle-class OKC will start riding busses if COTPA adds new routes and improves their schedules. However, there is a large population in OKC that for any number of reasons don't have access to an automobile for transportaion on a day to day basis. And, before we can expect to attract Federal money to light rail or streetcar projects in OKC, we must upgrade our basic mass-transit system.

I agree that the present version of rubber tired trolleys are not a long term transportaion solution. They are rather uncomfortable and are only OK for short distance use in the downtown/bricktown area. But if the equipment is available, why not put it to use now as a way of testing the water. If an acceptable ridership developes, the trolleys could be replaced by a similar sized but more modern vehicle as a way to provide an important transportation link while the "real thing" is being engineered, funded and built.

A district has been defined and a steering committee has been formed to develop the "medical corridor" between St. Anthony and OU Health Sciences Center. A transportation link is a vital part of that planning and development process. We shouldn't wait 25 years to have it in place.

Just because we can't do exactly what we want now, why pass up the opportunity that is right in front of us?

We need some buses like these...

http://www.lightrail.nl/SmartBus/buspics/almere001.jpg
http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Erajvdb/lra/afb/zuidtangent001.jpg

Yes we need more busses. But, OKC needs to step not into the future, but into reality. Lets plan and implement for once. Downtown is about to explode and we at least need local modern street cars in place to anticipate that boom. People will have to park in fewer places, be able to carry their groceries from that "oh so future grocery store", and actually be abe to live amist the congestion caused by our convention center and hornets games. Do any of you live down here? Its absolute hell geting accross downtown when the Hornets have home games. I welcome it, but a trolley in a dedicated lane that weaves through congestion is welcome versus the rubber tired trolleys that only move as fast as traffic allows. Modern stret cars have signal and lane priority. Portland's Powell street- street car and San Fran's Market Street- Street Cars are a great example. We need to plan for the future but learn from the cities of today.

amen urban pioneer!