This is so absolutyly ynbelieveable to me!I cannot evem listen to this or watch this story anymore about how these 6 people died.If you havent heard the 911 tape you will get sick to your stomach hearing it!This Jackass killed this family in my opinion!I realize before anyone starts the hate mail which you can do privatly.This JERK that took this call kept asking this poor dying woman the same questions REPEATEDLY!She told him her house was on fire,Her porch was on fire and he WASTING precious moments I must add just acted so un believably non-chalant.She screamed her address and he keeps on asking his stupid questions.This family might have had a half a chance.Again I know there were bars on the windows and there routed of escape were blocked but they Were trying to make it to the garage.I dont know Im so upset right now over this I just am in utter horror.I bet if this was his mother and his own family he wouldnt be making his family fell stupid by telling them whae they are taking their last breaths to "go outside"I cant even imagine that being the last words I ever heard on this earth knowing I was trying like hell to do that and Some dumbass on the other end sounds like he could care less. :eek:

Hindsight is 20/20.

I'll bet he feels awful.

Well, what I don't understand is, if the people in the house really needed time to get out, why didn't they just try to get out of the house and worry about calling 911 after they got to safety. It's also kind of funny that they werefound in the garage....why couldn't they open the garage doors to get out. Seems like there are usually plenty of exits from a garage. I know I wasn't there. So I just probably don't understand.
What's really scary about this is that the homeowners had bars on their windows. Never ever put bars on your windows....they're a fire problem waiting to happen. Spend the money on a security system and a big gun instead!
Regardless, it's still sad. I'm extremely sorry this had to happen.

Bars are fine as long as there is some kind of emergency release accessable from the inside. I'll bet he felt smart when he saved money and didn't get those kinds of bars.

For the parents that built that death trap, I would nominate them for the Darwin awards. I'm angry at them, however, for the deaths of their children. It seems very irresponsible now.

You'd be amazed at the fire code requirements on commercial and multi-family housing. There should be some fire code items (bars) that are not grandfathered in and should be forbidden from regular properties without the appropriate release mechanisms.

Blaming the dispatcher seems incorrect to me. The people who should have been able to accurately understand the danger, were the people who died. I can't stand to listen to the 911 tape. I wouldn't wait for a dispatcher to tell me to get out...

Questions:
Were they overcome by smoke when they were *standing up*? What genius thought that bolting bars on the windows was a good idea? Did they have a family escape plan?

Suggestions for those eligible for the Darwin Award:
Call 911 on the phone to save your property AFTER you get the kids out. Alarm systems discourage theft without making your kids live (& die) in an actual prison.

These people made several mistakes. All have been addressed on this forum except one. NO SMOKE DETETORS.

I have one in every room of the house including my garage. I test them weekly.

Plus, I think the city should make burglar bars totally illegal. Even the ones with quick releases. Who is to say these people would have been in too much of a panic to release the latch.

Did the dispatcher do anything wrong? Not in my opinion. The address should have already been on his screen. In fact, I probably heard the dispatch as he was still on the phone with the woman.

The dispatcher would have no way of knowing they were in the house, however, yes, he could have asked immediatly if anyone was inside. It is a judgement call, especially in an age where the corded phone is going the same direction as the telegram... Into obsolesance.

If I was on the city council, I would have already consulted the city attorney about introducing a city ordinance outlawing WITHOUT grandfather clauses, any burglar bars. They are dangerous. Yes. A .357 magnum, the teeth of a family dog, and an intrusion alarm are much more effective. Plus, had these people invested in an alarm, the fire department would have been on scene before these people even realized they had a fire.

It took quite along time just to report it. I lisetend to the entire run on my scanner. The first unit in, I think engine 23, reported visible smoke from two miles away. The dispatcher reported people trapped when she gave 603 (district chief) the report and unit review. She did not say how many as she may not have known.

I had to do something, and had heard two victims, however, did not hear the other four. That was a shock.

Did this one effect me? Yes. Especially since I heard the call from the fire department's prospective.

I have never had burglar bars, I do not want them... Ever. They are ugly, dangerous and make the place look like a prison.

What could have been done that would have made these people alive today? Easy. 1. NO BURGLAR BARS OF ANY KIND. 2. WORKING SMOKE DETECTORS. 3. DO NOT BLOCK EXITS. 4. IF THERE IS A FIRE, GET OUT BY THE CLOSEST EXIT. I do not understand why these people went via garage and not back door. 5. DO NOT BLOCK EXITS. 6. GET OUT BEFORE CALLING THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. Chances are, someone else will call any way. The typical fire has as many as a dozen calls. 7. INSTALL A MONITORED FIRE ALARM.

These can and DO save lives.

The friends and families of these people have my sympathy. What a tragic and preventable loss.

(Ignore my signature on this one, it can not be removed from just this post. I would if I could since it is really not appropriate for this particular post)

This is indeed a tragedy, when 6 lives are snuffed out quickly by fire. I know people that have burglar bars on their homes, and I would never, ever, have something like that put on my windows or doors. If I ever have a fire at my house, I want my children to be able to break a window, if they have to, to get out.

Although the dispatcher had been on the job for 15 years, and Major Stanaland said that he handled the call properly, I still have my doubts about the way he handles it.

When he initially received the call, I feel he should have verified the address(which was already on his screen), found out how many people were in the house, and then instruct them to get out. At that point it did not matter how the fire started or where it was...all he needed to do was to get the pertinent info and then dispatch the fire units. He didn't need to know names, phone numbers, or anything like that. The fire units on their way would know that there were people trapped inside.

Actually, you are instructed to get out of the house and then call the fire dept. from another house. I'm sure the dad meant well when he put the bars up, however, he, like all of us, would have never guessed that his house would catch fire.

I really feel that if the dispatcher had not kept her on the phone so long, that maybe, just maybe, the outcome of this would not have been so tragic.

Ok I want to respond a little to all of the responses above I just read them over.I was Caught up in the moment and maybe a smidge emotional last night.Who me?lol Anyway the call they played in the news repeatedly the guy never tried to get her address they said thats the first thing he should have done.And for some reason he asked her 4 times what doe you see if the is a fire,isnt this pretty much the dumbest thing you can ask.Another thing it was just simply the non-chalant matter of fact I don't give a **** attitude he had.He did not try to calm her down,that upset me.also ive heard that in a fire knock on everything I will never find out,you become very disoriented yes even in your own houseful of black choking smoke total chaos and heat I cant even imagine.But Patrick They did despertly try to get out from what I heard yes they had the bars which I heard did not have the release.The other sad fact is they were getting ready to move which add the random piles of boxes all over the place.I'm sorry guys I cant change the way I feel about the dispacher,But 110% agree with the views on the bars.Thats really a shame and yes they should have had a escape plan.Yes guns are great for people that like them I guess but I personally don't like them whatsoever for personal reasons.But I do think A big burly Rottweiler or Doberman would totally change your plans of robbing someones house.lol.I can also identify with this woman and her family and maybe this is wrong for me to assume but I don't know out of the few of us who has families I always figure you guys are all single(except for patricks engagment)what I'm trying to get at is this getting caught up in church ,and the fair,end of summer picnics and family reunions ,soccer practice and back to school I think its easy to get caught up nd so busy having 2 boys I can identify with this maybe ,unfortunatly this is why they didn't have a "plan".But then there is this question as well there was a neighbor over there she would not have known and even if the family did the boxes might have hindered it.All in All if anyone is getting these bars installed on your windows please get the release because of instead of protecting your family from harm you could be Paying money to harm them.

Keep in mind the fact that the address is on the screen as soon as dispatch receives the call reporting the indicent. Plus, questions are judgement calls.

Is it important to know if there are flames in sight versus smoke in sight? Yes. If it is mainly flame, and the people are inside the building as was in this case, the flames could retard efforts to escape and maybe a police unit can be dispatched code three to start search and rescue. The woman should have had the common sense to get out first (sorry, that is the way I feel about it) THEN call.

The dispatcher did not ask if anyone was inside the structure. Granted, that is true. However, did you know over 90% of all telephones are cordless? As far as he knew, she grabbed her phone then escaped. Reasonable doubt as to whether that was a question needed early. Most people would have left immediatly, maybe grabbing a cordless phone on the way out. I know I would grab the phone and the dog, then climb out the egress window.

As soon as it is determained to be a structure fire, one of two alarms are dispatched. This one a residential alarm. Three engines, a resuce ladder, two district Chiefs, and a fourth unit as what they call a "red team." The latter strictly for search and rescue.

This house was several miles from two stations. It tells me that we really need more fire stations. Inner city has one about every ten square miles if not closer.

I am proud of our firefighters no matter what. Also the dispatchers. They really tr. Plus this woman was quite agitated. She was panicing instead of trying to get her people out. I still wonder why the garage and not a back door.

Plus. I said earlier that ALL burglar bars should be illegal. All buildings should have both smoke detectors and sprinkler systems. Had this home been so equiped, this message would not exist since no lives would have been lost. The sprinklers would have estinquished the fire before it flashed over.

Several cities mandate sprinklers in residences. We should also. A few hundred bucks is a small price to pay in place of several thousand for a funeral.

Sprinklers cost a hell of a lot more than a couple hundred bucks. Pluse they're a huge drain (forgive the pun) on water pressure. My old fraternity house back at the alma mater had an estimate done on putting sprinklers in (it's only a 5-bedroom house) and it was going to run us about 20K.

There are cities across the United States that require sprinkler systems in residences.

I do not know much about them, however, I have seen home improvement programs show systems that are designed specifically for residential use that are not as high in price as you quote.

Plus. even if it was 20 grand, what is more important? Spending more money or being dead. Sprinkler systems save lives, structures, and insurance premiums.

Plus, this system I mentioned uses very little water pressure. Some, from what I understand, use CO2. Basically they are fire extinqusihers.

Spending money vs. being dead? It's a false choice. Spending the money just assures you a lower chance of being dead. You can obtain similar results just by having fire exits in the correct places, smoke alarms, etc. all at lower financial cost.

Also, with sprinkler systems, you often have the disadvantage of false alarms. Imagine what would happen to your carpet, floors, furniture, electronics, etc. if one of your kids bumped a sprinkler while throwing something across the room, setting it off? You'd sure be glad you had those suckers.

I think that sprinklers have their places. In large office towers, it makes complete sense. In large dormitories -- at least in the halls to prevent fires from spreading, it makes sense. In individual homes? No. There are usually plenty of escape routes (doors, windows, etc.)

An argument can definitely be made (and I just made it) that sprinklers in private homes have more cons than pros.

Of course, that's a decision that you should be allowed to make for and with your family. If you want 'em, more power to ya sport.

The residential sprinklers do not look like the ones in commercial buildings. The odds of a bump setting them off is quite slim as they are recessed.

Granted. An exit could be blocked and as demonstrated HAS been. Out of respect for those lost, I will keep it there on that aspect.

The sprinklers are 100 percent heat activated. It has to be unbareably hot for them to activate. Plus, the CO2 or water rushes out VERY fast and that is that.

It is best that we declare an impasse. I am totally in favor of them as I KNOW they can save lives and the odds of a misfire are VERY slim. Cost is secondary.

I Do grant, there are other things that can contribute to loss of life. Again, that has been seen.

It is with any subject. It takes time to convince the opposition that something is good for them... even if it means no beer and cigarettes for a few years to pay for it.

Although these sprinkler systems could help stop house fires, I think the price of these systems would really cause the price of houses to inflate, thereby hurting our housing market. The price is really so high, it will never become standard in residences.
The best solution here would've been to eliminate the bars or install a different type of bars. Maybe fire code restrictions need to be revamped and certain types of bars banned.

Check the following. usaf.fema.gov/hfs/sprinklers/shtm.

According to this site, residential sprinklers cost between one dollar and $1.50 per square foot for new construction. Probably a bit higher for retrofit. They did not say about cost for retrofit.

It also has information on myths, some of which have been mentioned on this thread.

This means for my home, it would run about $3,000 for a system. I have a 2,000 square foot home with a two car garage.

My guess is the cost to a home would rise by less than 10,000 for a home of equal size. Not a great increase. Plus there are insurance discounts for these.

That's actually not too bad. Seems like that cost would make installation in new homes well worth the extra cost. Insurance companies ought to offer reductions in premiums for installing such a system. This would not only reduce destruction caused by house fires, but it wouild also reduce payouts for repairs and rebuilding by insruance companies.

I started to read the posts and couldnt continue on after mr anderson pointed out his experienced tips. DONT BLOCK THE EXITS, FIRE DETECTORS, NO BARS ON WINDOWS. Those are absolutely logical.

From a 911 dispatcher perspective (now retired) this is the protocol we used in NYC.
Ask WHAT IS THE EMERGENCY, Verify call back number, obtain address if not on immediately accessible, ask are you outside and instruct to leave the house immediately and NOT return, ask who else is there (in the event they dont make it out), keep the called on the phone as we walk them trough fire safety routine, stop, drop, roll, touch walls/doors, close them behind you when u get to another room. Of course his job was to keep cool, calm and collected. I have not heard the tape and dont think I can.

Of course this should be a lesson but when living in a poor state lets hope the elected officials will make the 911 telephone system a priority and update it immediately as well as outlaw bars!

That dispatcher is scarred for life. This will follow him around the rest of his life.

Angel

Hey Angel, that's cool that you're a retired 911 dispatcher!

Anyways, you're so right in what you say. Common sense techniques could've prevented these deaths. Thanks for your perspective, and by the way, welcome to the site. We hope to see you around here more often!