The revision to my downtown Oklahoma City clickable map is underway ... eventually it will replace the "current" clickable map located here: http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/downtownokc.htm but it will work the same way.

This is the "unpopulated" (but for a few buildings in Bricktown shown to illustrate my intention ... they will eventually have #s, also) new map image is this:

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/2006new.jpg

The Bricktown "buildings" shown are the Pitman parking garage, the unstarted Hampton Inn, the Brick, Harkins, Toby Keith's, the started Residence Inn, and Bass Pro.

What I'm asking is a critique of this map before I really begin to populate the map ... errors in the map, anything. The new map will contain more detail and a larger area than the former, with Shartel as the western boundary and 10th St as the northern.

I've made one-way streets "blue" for ease of noticing. The other items should be self-explanatory. The areas east of downtown proper are now to scale (or, at least, should be).

All suggestions, etc., are welcome ... I'd like to get this right and for it to be mo' better than the present map.

Looks like a good start to me. Looking forward to seeing the final product.

Thanks, Patrick. Here's the general progress so far (w/o #s ... color codes are:

Yellow: parking
Black: office or business (including utilities, e.g., OG&E)
Tan: miscellaneous (e.g., Trigen Energy)
Hot Pink: cultural or entertertainment or commercial
Green: hotels
Dark blue: government
Violet: residential

A few "buildings" have 2 colors, to indicate a separte segment within a main area (e.g., the Oklahoman building as part of the YMCA campus). I'm including proposed elements where they appear to be "sure things", e.g., the opening of Harvey between Sheridan & Park Ave, the 2 pending hotels in Bricktown, the opening of Dewey between Kerr & NW 4th and the apartments east of Dewey. I'm not as certain what to do with projects that are not certain (as far as I'm aware), e.g., the Flatiron District residential project(s).

Again, any critiques and suggestions are welcome. For example, I see in this particular attachment that I've miscolored the Civic Center Music Hall ... should be hot pink not blue.

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/2006new.gif

I like the way you have the different uses divided by colors. I'll be looking forward to seeing the final product with clickable images.

Thanks, Patrick.

After all the buildings and clusters ... I'm adding "clusters" to show multiple small buildings in a single area in one pic, e.g., the 3 or 4 small buildings between City Place & 101 Park will be shown as a cluster ... are populated in the map, the next step will be to create a numbering system ... the one I'd used before (strictly numeric #s) did not lend itself well to "change" ... and if anything is true about downtown OKC right now, it is that "change" is a constant ... weekly, monthly, etc.. I'm inclined to think that an alphabetical prefix (e.g., "P" for Park, "H" for hotel) combined with a number, e.g., 1, 2, 3) is the way to go, so that a building # might be H1, G3, P4, etc.

What are your thoughts about that?

BTW, I really appreciate your feedback ... me just talking to myself doesn't predictably come up with any "new" ideas ... I was sincere when I requested feedback, and, so far ... sob sob sob ... you are the only one! :(

An example of how the feedback helps: just now, in looking over this thread, I see that I've got the Courtyard Mariott and the Arena Parking located wrong ... they are not side-by-side E/W, they are side-by-side N/S! If I'd not been looking over this thread, I probably wouldn't have noticed.

Hey Doug,

Currently, I believe that Oklahoma and Walnut are one way (south and north, respectively) in Deep Deuce and Flatiron. I know they were going to change that, but I didn't think it had already been done. I could be wrong, though! Don't forget about the Amtrak Station (although I may be a little ahead of you-- sorry if I am). Also, there is an exit off I-40 eastbound that loops 180 degrees and comes out heading west on SW 4th at Harvey. Looks like a great start, that seems like quite an undertaking.

Hey Doug,

Currently, I believe that Oklahoma and Walnut are one way (south and north, respectively) in Deep Deuce and Flatiron. I know they were going to change that, but I didn't think it had already been done. I could be wrong, though! Don't forget about the Amtrak Station (although I may be a little ahead of you-- sorry if I am). Also, there is an exit off I-40 eastbound that loops 180 degrees and comes out heading west on SW 4th at Harvey. Looks like a great start, that seems like quite an undertaking.

THANKS! Yep, you're absolutely correct about the I-40 eastbound exit at Harvey ... since I've almost never used it, it was not in my head to think of it! Don't know about the other matters, but, if I have time tomorrow, I'll drive the streets (Oklahoma & Walnut ... the latter, of course, the extent possible) and see what I can see! Amtrak, though, is already there ... the yellow rectangle along Gaylord between Sheridan & Reno ... if California were an E/W street at that point, it would intersect the depot. The "canal" terminal is to the right (east) across the RR ...

Have I got that wrong?

I'm including proposed elements where they appear to be "sure things", e.g., the opening of Harvey between Sheridan & Park Ave,...


I could be wrong, but I was thinking that Harvey was only being reopened to the south end of the new Galleria garage. I don't think it is connecting all the way through to Sheridan, because they would have to tear out Festival Place (the fountains on either side). I think it's just being used as a main entryway to the new garage.

Brianok, the OK & Walnut advice you gave, below, is CONFIRMED by driving the routes today. Each remain one-way, and I'll modify my map accordingly. Thanks!

Hey Doug,

Currently, I believe that Oklahoma and Walnut are one way (south and north, respectively) in Deep Deuce and Flatiron. I know they were going to change that, but I didn't think it had already been done. ...
Jbrown84, you said

I could be wrong, but I was thinking that Harvey was only being reopened to the south end of the new Galleria garage. I don't think it is connecting all the way through to Sheridan, because they would have to tear out Festival Place (the fountains on either side). I think it's just being used as a main entryway to the new garage.
In my map, I was just guessing about the Harvey reopening since I've seen nothing definitive about the partial reopening of Harvey. I just figured that it would be most logical to open Harvey to the southern boundary of the Galleria parking (Sheridan) which would make that part of downtown more accessible from the southern side at Harvey. But, that was and is just a guess. Otherwise, the reopened Harvey would have its southern terminus WITHIN the Galleria parking area, lacking a southern connection to Sheridan, which may well be the case.

Do you have anything (e.g., website links) that helps to resolve this point?

Again, thanks to all for your input. I'm VERY glad to have it.

Doug, that's a lot of work! Very Cool -

Hi, Karrie! I've been missing hearing from you! Thanks for chiming in!

In my map, I was just guessing about the Harvey reopening since I've seen nothing definitive about the partial reopening of Harvey. I just figured that it would be most logical to open Harvey to the southern boundary of the Galleria parking (Sheridan) which would make that part of downtown more accessible from the southern side at Harvey. But, that was and is just a guess. Otherwise, the reopened Harvey would have its southern terminus WITHIN the Galleria parking area, lacking a southern connection to Sheridan, which may well be the case.

Do you have anything (e.g., website links) that helps to resolve this point?

No, I'm just going off memory. I don't remember necessarily reading that it wouldn't connect through to Sheridan, but I don't remember reading that it would. And having just walked around that area a couple days ago, I can say that there is no sign of any demolition to make way for Harvey south of the new garage. If they did plan to do that, they would have to demolish (as I mentioned above) Festival Place and it's northern fountain, as well as an apparently long abandoned enclosed escalator/stairs to the old Myriad Gardens tunnells (I assume that's what it is. I never noticed it before). Also, the road would have to be built over the old Galleria garage as well.

jbrown84, I think you're correct about Harvey. From the Skyline Snapshot 3rd Qtr. 2005:
When completed, the new garage will incorporate an architectural style compatible with nearby buildings and a new ingress/egress point from Harvey Avenue. A skywalk will link the two new multi-story garage structures.

So, it seems that the "reopened" Harvey will only be a "jut" (so to speak) from Park Avenue southbound into the Galleria Parking for traffice to/from Park Avenue. I think I'd have preferred extending a reopened Harvey to Sheridan, but I do believe that you are correct! Thanks for the heads-up!

As already said, the new "map" will be a much larger area than presently exists and I'm trying to include pics of most buildings embraced in the covered area.

Here's a building I'm wondering if any of you can help me with ... the former Holiday Inn on Main at Dewey ...

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/holidayinn.jpg

This view looks east along Main toward Walker with the Montgomery and the Walker/Sheridan parking garage in the background. The building is clearly being used for something, but, on my walkabout last Monday the doors were locked but signs of life were clearly evident, and it appears that the grounds are being well cared for. I couldn't locate any signs which gave a clue as to the building's use and/or occupants.

Anyone know anything about this?

Thanks in advance.

Following up on the "Holiday Inn" question, I now see in another pic I took on 1/2/06, below, a City of Oklahoma City flag in front of this building. So, apparently, it is either owned/leased/whaterver used by one or more OKC agencies ... if that helps in identification.

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/holidayinn2.jpg

Sure wish the would reopen that building as a hotel, even if it was a discount one line HI Xpress, OKC needs to appeal to all income levels -

And West Downtown surely needs a hotel!!! Especially a 10 storey one - like the one that already exists. ....

Wow I never noticed that building nor did I know there was once a Holiday Inn downtown.

Yeah. My memory is too crappy to remember when the building WAS a Holiday Inn.

It was also something else at one time or another, and I don't remember which came first, the Holiday Inn or the other identity. I recall that there was a pretty nice restaurant on the 1st floor.

Maybe those with better memories will jump in here with more detail. I'll probably drop by there today to see what I can find out.

I did go by and into the former Holiday Inn yesterday. Rather than encumber this thread with my findings, I started a new one here: http://www.okctalk.com/t5262-the-fo...principles.html . It describes a bit of research I did in figuring out how the old Holiday Inn at 520 W. Main is used today, right here in downtown Oklahoma City! To keep this thread on topic, I'd appreciate it if any observations might care to make about the Holiday Inn property be made in that fascinating thread, at least it is to me!

Back to topic please, the old HI which is now Character First has already been discussed on OKC talk numerous times

Back to topic please, the old HI which is now Character First has already been discussed on OKC talk numerous times
Thanks for your input, Metro. Do you have any substantive suggestions?

Here's the map progress (w/o labels) as I plod along ... I've added a small area at the bottom for the Oklahoma River so that the Chesapeake Boathouse will have a place (lower right) ... and I see now (as this is posted) that I've not yet corrected Walnut and Oklahoma which are still one-way streets.

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/2006new3.gif

Even though there aren't going to be "individual" building specified by #, I'm adding "strip" areas which can show segments of smaller buildings not in most (any that I know) maps of OKC, such as this area west of the Harbour Longmire Building (Main Place) ...

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/coneyisland.jpg

I'm not very far along with such "strips" ... I've got the area between City Place and 101 Park Avenue covered, below, as well as a few other. But, to make the current map more interesting, I'd like to include all such places that I can think of, and I'd appreciate your suggestions about that. For example, I'm going to include the strip between the Union Bus Station and the 1 North Hudson Building (Black Hotel), to be sure to include the venerable Lunch Box diner. Your suggestions are invited.

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/parkave1.jpg

Here's a building I know NOTHING about ... the City Hall "annex", so to speak. It's had facelifts over the years ... on Walker at Colcord Drive ....

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/walker_colcord.jpg

Can anyone enlighten me about the history of this building ... like ... it's original name, when it was originally constructed, and/or it's original use?

I'm also subsituting some exisitng images with others, such as the Devon Energy Building (Mid America Tower), shown below.

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/devon.jpg

The distortion shown on the building is a result of reflections from Chase and I'll probably defer to your judgment if you think it would be better to have "purer" images.

Thanks!

Deleting double-post of the above ... I can't see how to delete messages. Sorry!

Cool map Doug, I look forward to checking out your site again when it's complete. I did notice a few things though, and I might be nitpicking here.
There is another rail line just west of Byers that crosses at Reno.
1st Street does not conect to Walnut anymore; that was kind of a blind intersection by the bridge.
There appears to be an on-ramp on to IH235 from 2nd street.
I believe that Walnut and Oklahoma Avenues are supposed to be converted to two-way once the bridge is complete; and sixth street when the intersection with Harrison and Walnut is complete. Otherwise it looks great, I like how you are incorporating the "strips" of smaller building that are around.

Cool map Doug, I look forward to checking out your site again when it's complete. I did notice a few things though, and I might be nitpicking here.
There is another rail line just west of Byers that crosses at Reno.
1st Street does not conect to Walnut anymore; that was kind of a blind intersection by the bridge.
There appears to be an on-ramp on to IH235 from 2nd street.
I believe that Walnut and Oklahoma Avenues are supposed to be converted to two-way once the bridge is complete; and sixth street when the intersection with Harrison and Walnut is complete. Otherwise it looks great, I like how you are incorporating the "strips" of smaller building that are around.

Thanks, Travis! No such thing as nitpicking ... I want to get it as right as I'm able.

Yeah, I need to put in the other rail line. If I have time tomorrow, I drive around the other points you mentioned.

You can also see some of this with Google Earth, or the county assesors web site. The later is a lot slower but has more recent ariels. Both are a good way to waste a couple of hours.

Now that there's not too much to do (other than keep up with gossip) with the Hornets right now, I'm getting back to this project which I shelved during the past several months.

I've decided to start from scratch, kinda, and expand the "new" map's borders to NW/NE 13th Street on the north, Classen on the west, I-235 on the East, and SW/SE 10th street on the south. While there's not much down there yet, that area should be expanding once the crosstown gets relocated, and, already, you pretty much have to go that far south to include the Chesapeake Boat House south of Bricktown. So, I've decided to totally redraw the previous "draft" downtown map.

To assure accuracy, I've pasted together a Google Maps satellite "hybrid" (showing the satellite images with a street name text overlay) which will serve as the basis for the simpler image I eventually put together. The Google satellite image of the downtown area is pretty stale ... e.g., it doesn't include Bass Pro or the Chesapeake Boat House in lower Bricktown, but, as for street locations, it should be good.

I thought it might be of general interest here to make that Google Maps derived image available to anyone that wants it, and here it is ... I've reduced the graphics quality somewhat for internet loading purposes, but without too much loss of sharpness.

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/aerial2006z.jpg

Here is the graphic overlay for the new downtown Oklahoma City map. I've not started "populating" it with buildings and that's the next step after being sure that I've got the main map done correctly. While I think that I have, it's easy to miss stuff ... so if any of you see any errors (or have other suggestions), I'd very much like to have them. PARTICULARLY, I've assumed (but do not know) that the I-40 relocation roughly coincides with the railroad tracks on the south side of downtown ... based on this graphic (pdf file) at the very nice Chesapeake Boat House web site, taken from downtownokc.com's website ... http://www.chesapeakeboathouse.org/images/maps/pdf_downtownmap.pdf . If that relocation identification is NOT accurate, I'd appreicate your advice on the point, as well as on any other errors/suggestions. Here's my draft, w/o buildings:

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/downtown2006.gif

i'm quite certain that you're correct about the location of i-40's relocation... i believe it's called alternative d. odot's site has this to offer on the subject, here (http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/public-info/i40-okc/)

-M (btw, your site on downtown history is GREAT. thanks for putting that together.)

Thanks, mmm.

I notice that I left out "Park Place" between Walker & Robinson and NW 10 & NW 11th.

Ok. I think I've got the map overlay done ... but if any of you see errors, I'd appreciate your advice. I'm ready to start adding buildings.

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/aerial2006x.gif

Thanks for any input.

Looks good, Doug.

I'm well on my way (but certainly not done) with populating the map overlay with buildings and points of interest. Below is the current status and I've decided to include projects that appear to be "certain", particularly those that are underway or are about to be.

In this category, I think (but am not certain) that I've got The Hill at Bricktown located correctly (ne corner of Deep Deuce bounded by Stiles on the west, I-235 on the east, NE 2 on the north and the RR right of way on the south. Is this accurate?

As always, critiques and error-noticing are appreciated. Here's where it's at:

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/aerial2006z.gif

The current state of the "map" is in the prior image, which will update as work progresses.

But, I have a particular request as to this property at 707 N Robinson, NW corner of 6th & Robinson:

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/deq.jpg

I didn't take the above, but it appears at the Price Edwards web pages. From the pic (I've not yet eyeballed it closely to count the floors), it looks to be 10 stories.

Can anyone (1) give some information (contstruction date, who was the original owner w/o me having to look it up the hard way), and (2) advise what occupied that space before the building was constructed?

The County Assessor's on-line records don't go really go back before Southwestern Bell transferred this property to the current owners, the Oklahoma Department of Environmental Quality, in 1997. Because of that transfer, and because it looks pretty much like what you'd suppose a "telephone company office building" to look like (pretty ugly) (before SW Bell acquired Central High School and spiffed it up nicely), I'm guessing that it was originally built by SW Bell. But, as to what was there earlier, I have no present clue.

Anyone?

No takers, on the above, I guess. Well, if anyone reading this later has any info as to the above property, ala the above message, please do chime in.

New Topic For the Map Development... Looking At River Stuff For Past, Present & Future Downtown

Switching gears, last night I was doing some internet searching with what started out as Wheeler Park (in the far SW corner of the revised map) and one thing (as always) has led to another. Wheeler Park ... about which I knew nothing ... led to Delmar Garden(s) (I saw the last word spelled both ways last night) ... led to the North Canadian / Oklahoma River ... all of which led me to conclude that it would be good to add a page or several in the new downtown Okc map stuff (current and vintage) on that river's past, current, and future impact on downtown Oklahoma City.

The North Canadian's floods (I'm studying up a little but don't know much yet) have played a role in downtown Oklahoma City, as was seen in the Delmar Gardens thread. See http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/474-delmar-gardens-questions-downtownguy.html .

The flooding continued well after Delmar Gardens became a part of history. From the National Weather Service page at http://www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/news/toptenweather.php is this snippet:


North Canadian River Flood - October 13-16, 1923. Floodwaters from the North Canadian River produced extensive damage in downtown Oklahoma City.
I have NO CLUE if the Corps of Engineers changed the riverbed location of the North Canadian when it did its work in the 1950s (I think). From http://environ.okstate.edu/OKWATER/2005/abstracts/Downes.pdf is this snippet:
The North Canadian River was a leading reason pioneers chose Oklahoma City’s location, although many considered the river "too thick to drink, too thin to plow." Major floods in the 1920s and 1930s led to significant property damage and loss of life, and residents demanded that the river be tamed. In the late 1950s, the City of Oklahoma City and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers initiated a flood control project to realign and channelize a portion of the river through the center of town. The primary objective of the project was to contain the 100-year flood queue within the rip-rap walls of a trapezoidal channel, and the design was a complete success from that perspective. Unfortunately, the floodway replaced a natural riparian environment with a blighted drainage ditch that had to be mowed three times a year.
Then, I wondered, where was the riverbed for the North Canadian before the Corps of Engineers relocated and revised it to prevent the flooding ... when was it changed by the Corps of Engineers? Where and how large (acreage) was the Delmar Gardens of which Wheeler Park was /is a part?

So far, I've not found satisfactory answers to such questions and I'm still looking. In the process of looking for an "old" river map (or verbal descriptions giving its location), I ran across an Oklahoma AIA image showing design awards for various Oklahoma projects. See http://www.aiaok.org/design_awards.php . On such award (2005, maybe) was for "Studio Architecture - North Canadian River Strategic Master Plan Oklahoma City".

As The Downtown Guy pointed out (in the text which Patrick quoted in the Delmar Gardens thread), the impact of the river has been significant over time to downtown Okc ... and is becoming so again. So, while I'm looking for more "history" as to the river, here's a nice drawing at the Ok AIA website for the the Master Plan which received the award:

http://www.aiaok.org/images/design_awards/concept_map_small.jpg

A much better and larger image of the above is at http://www.aiaok.org/images/design_awards/concept_map.html . A "cropped" and resized part of that larger image, showing only the downtown element, is shown below:

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/rivernew1.jpg

While the above shows what is or may be contemplated, it doesn't show "what was". Using Google Map's satellite features for approximately the same area, a satellite image taken several years (5-7?) ago shows the area to look like this:

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/rivernew2.jpg

Superimposing street names & emphasizing the Crosstown relocation and showing the location of the current Farmers Market (which was within the area of the Delmar Gardens, as was Wheeler Park), the image looks like this:

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/rivernew3.jpg

This gives a few clues as to the general area that was Delmar Gardens & Wheeler Park. This source, http://www.ok-history.mus.ok.us/enc/amuseparks.htm , says that Delmar Gardens occupied 140 acres.

IF Delmar Gardens DID occupy 140 acres, and IF it were completely rectangular, a possible hypothesis is that Delmar Gardens occupied a space similar to that shown in the image below, which highlights an approximate 140 acre regangularly shaped area. Of course, I am totally guessing about the shape, but not about what 140 acres would approximate. So, at least, it helps to visualize the general size of Delmar Gardens, including the space known as Wheeler Park. It wasn't a small park (again, assuming that it occupied 140 acres)!

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/rivernew4.jpg

BTW, if you're curious as to what the North Canadian may have been like in VERY old downtown, it may have been something like the more pristine Stinchcomb Wildlife Refuge located north of Lake Overholser where the North Canadian is apparently still pretty much the way that it used to be. For some very nice pics and a description of that area's history, see http://www.okcoutdoornetwork.org/Stinchcomb.htm . A few of the images appear below:

http://www.okcoutdoornetwork.org/images/Kayak_dog.gif http://www.okcoutdoornetwork.org/images/Stinchcomb_4.jpghttp://www.okcoutdoornetwork.org/_derived/Stinchcomb.htm_txt_beaver_1.gif

Of course, the above pics were taken on "kindler gentler" days in the river's history! I've not been to that area in several years, but if you like outdoors and are willing to explore, it's well worth the effort.

One thing to consider. The river is currently a bit south of where the original riverbed used to be. The Corps moved the riverbed south to stop flooding downtown.
I wouldn't be surprised if Delmar Gardens stretched a bit further to the west than what you have shown in the diagram.

One reason we may not have more information on Delmar Gardens is because, you have to consider, it was only in existence for 7 years. That's not very long.

while this is total speculation, it may be possible that the railroad followed the original course of the river. given that, the original course of the river may have been around present-day sw 13th & 14th. really interesting stuff... i'll bet that the historical society has okc maps from early last century. i'd love to see some of those... guess i'll have to plan a field trip there sometime. -M

Doug, I am so impressed with your work!

I wish our river could look like the above.. what are the plans for landscaping? Anyone know?

I haven't been following the landscaping but if the river looked anything like that around downtown, and the banks were more aesthetically pleasing.. with picnic areas and walking & biking trails - canoes, kayaking and even white water rafting - the river would all be enjoyed so much more.

Doug, I am so impressed with your work!

I wish our river could look like the above.. what are the plans for landscaping? Anyone know?

I haven't been following the landscaping but if the river looked anything like that around downtown, and the banks were more aesthetically pleasing.. with picnic areas and walking & biking trails - canoes, kayaking and even white water rafting - the river would all be enjoyed so much more.
:boff: WHITE WATER RAFTING??? :boff: Well, maybe some controlled "wave" machines could be implanted in the Oklahoma River so that it "looks" like it has "surf", or at least, "current," but still avoid the problem of downtown flooding! :tweeted:

Just kidding, Karrie, my love! I'm just getting into the downtown "river" stuff so I'm ingnorant of plans about landscaping and/or dealing with tempestuous water! The guys/gals at Chesapeake Boathouse might have someting to say on the topic, though!

For "pristine" North Canadian, it might be best for you to go north of Lake Overholser and follow the natural meanderings of the North Canadian ... and, seriously, if you've never gone up that way, it's a good outing but it does take some time to explore ... take a vehicle that can handle rough terrain if you plan to follow your nose up that area and follow the North Canadian where it naturally meanders and go where you (or the river) wills. But, you've got to have an attitude of "whatever it takes, it is OK" and just perservere with your exploring. It is NOT civilized space, which, of course, what makes it such a delight. But, you've got to be prepared to zig-zag over unpleasant unpaved roads in a west-north-west-north etc. direction to get to the out-of-the-way surprises and pleasures of the wild, right here in the middle of central Oklahoma! But, I'm not thinking that "downtown" is interested in "surprises" of the natural kind!

I know I heard somewhere that there was talk of a company trying to incorporate some sort of white water rafting ( with the use of machinery of course - aka wave machine/rapids maker - if there is such a thing?)

Maybe I was dreaming or wishful thinking! I could have been missing my California rivers... they look like the above - Russian River = pristine white water rafting.. I'm feeling homesick seeing those pics.

During the past couple of days, I've noticed that the code gets messed up so that images, quotes, etc., don't work. Yesterday, it seemed to get fixed, but now it's broken again.

What's up?

Yes, Todd is performing maintenance and he is fixing it all this weekend.. Go Todd!

I've come across some interesting stuff for the vintage map revision since my last post. I'll show a couple of them here.

1st, from http://www.wkinsler.com/highways/city_maps/index.htm


The plat maps on this page come from the official 1930 state map. They show the city limits roughly as they would have been at the time and give the names of the streets that were parts of the highway alignments. Note that a great many changes have been made!!

"The accompanying plats show the marked routes of the State and U.S. Highways thru some of the larger towns."-Official Map of the State Highways of Oklahoma. July 1, 1930.
http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/vintage/1930okc.jpg

The next is from http://www.1st-hand-history.org/Exdocs/Exdoc72/album1.html which presents a 61 page report, "Executive Document 72, 51st Congress, 1st Session, 1890, Letter from the Secretary of War Conveying Copies Of Correspondence Relating the State of Affairs in Guthrie and Oklahoma City, Indian Territory, 1888-1890". The pages are scanned JPG files. I'll include several of them ... here's the 1st & the 3rd pages I'll use:

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/vintage/1890letter1.jpg

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/vintage/1890letter3.jpg

The writing style is interesting, but lots of detailed history is presented, for those who like such things. Now, I know (I'd suppose) where the street "Stiles" comes from ... and in other pages, "Couch Drive", he being the 1st mayor of Oklahoma City.

It will be awhile before my map revision is "ready for prime time", but you can use the above link if you want to read this stuff now.

i'd often wondered where delmar garden was and this thread sparked me to do a bit of research on the subject. just in case anybody is still curious, here's what i found...

according to a historic marker on the farmer's market property, delmar garden extended westward from reno & western. this piece of a 1906 okc map confirms that location. -M

http://members.cox.net/magnvs/blog/delmar.jpg

The Oklahoma County assesors web site has aerial photos that might help.

The Oklahoma County assesors web site has aerial photos that might help.
Thanks, Jimbo, I've used many of the pics at the assessor's website in the "vintage" section of my downtown pages, and, you're right, it's a good source, particularly for old-timey stuff.

I've added the Secretary of War's report in the 1889 decade of my vintage pages, and a few other things, at http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/vintage/1889.htm for those who may be interested.

I spent an hour or so in the downtown library today to see what I could find about the Delmar Gardens' location. Really, nothing new that gives the definition I'm looking for.

But, fwiw, this is from a 1907 atlas (very similar to mmm's) ...

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/vintage/1907.okcdelmarx.jpg

and this image blends the old and the new, so that the relative locations of the river are visible:

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/vintage/1907.okcdelmary.jpg

I've added the Delmar Garden / Wheeler Park pages at my website. It can be accessed in the main entrance (http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtownOKC.htm )or in the vintage 1900 decade, or here, directly: http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/vintage/delmarwheeler.htm

If you find any errors or have suggestions, I'd like to have them. Enjoy!

Now, it's back to the future!

Block 42

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/block42.jpg

Question: EXACTLY where is the Block 42 project located, more particularly its west and east borders? Skyline Snapshot says,

Block 42 is a new Downtown residential development project consisting of 20 town homes and 22 elevator-accessed flats. Block 42 will be located between the central business district, Bricktown and the Oklahoma Health Center on NE 4th Street between Walnut and I-235.
It's evident that Block 42 will be on the north side of NE 4th ... but how far east/west does it span ... and is it's general shape oriented east/west or north/south?

If the general shape is oriented east/west, is it wider than 1 block on NE 4th, spanning Central as shown below (I'm guessing), or does it end at where Central would be? If the general shape is oriented north/south, then the map below would be incorrect as it's boundaries would have to be NE 4 and NE 5.

Anyone know?

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/block42.gif

Block 42 follow-up.

I drove by the area this afternoon ... judging by the picture in the previous message, there's not enough space for the project to fit into the space between NE 4 & NE 5 (for a vertical alignment) but there's plenty if the width faces NE 4 for a horizontal alignment, so the east/west alignment shown in my "guesstimate", above, is almost certainly correct. But, there are no signs on the property and no signs of anticipated construction.

The question remains, does anyone know how far east the project will go?

Yes, it is just North of the Central Avenue Villas and Deep Deuce. On the north side of NE 4th, just as you highlighted in yellow.

Yes, it is just North of the Central Avenue Villas and Deep Deuce. On the north side of NE 4th, just as you highlighted in yellow.
Thanks a bunch, Metro!

Metro (and anyone else who might know), I've found this Triangle masterplan (only an excerpt which I've edited to add a few street names and to crop and resize and draw a few lines) below. The large complete file is at http://www.thetriangleokc.com/vision.html ... click on the map image there to open a larger pdf file containing the whole map.

IF the tan U-shaped area is the same thing as Block 42, its general shape would indeed run north/south (as far as the principal structure is concerned) instead of the east/west layout I'd previously guessed at. However, its grounds (or whatever) are shown as extending slightly past Central, as you said.

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/block42b.jpg

Soooo ... is the area querried about above accurate as to Block 42's location and overall layout?

From that image, Doug, it looks like that might have been a proposed new school in the Triangle area, as that certainly looks like a football field with bleachers on each side.

The little pink dots to the right of the field is the house/s that were torn down to make room for Block 42.

Block 42 will be centered on Central Avenue oriented west to east. It will be directly across from the large pink box (the Central Avenue Villas) shown on the south side of 4th directly east of Central. The Triangle map dosen't show Block 42 because they are two seperate development companies. Hope this helps...

Hummmm ... this gets confusinger and confusinger ... I'd thought that the Central Avenue Villas were located at the SE corner of Central and NE 4 ... which would put the Villas south of Block 42, not west of Block 42 (which I think to be the "pink" area in the "Triangle" map ... just the "pink" area in the map, not the Villas).

But, as to Block 42 itself, it sounds as though I've got it right ... the tract's boundaries are Walnut on the west, SE 4th on the south, SE 3rd on the North, and just a bit past Central on the east, with the main body of buildings located on the west end but facing east (toward I235) and looking into a courtyard or something.

Right? Wrong?

well i'm certainly not helping the confusion! Central Avenue Villas are the YELLOW box on the SE corner of 4th and Central...

Doug,

Go to www.block42.com. Click on "Enter." A new window will launch and you can click on "The Residences" button. On the next page, click on "Virtual Tour." On the next page, click on "Watch Video" and pick your preferred video format. Next you will see a fly-by animation of the property that should help you orient the project. (Basically, you've got it right.)

Doug,

Go to www.block42.com. Click on "Enter." A new window will launch and you can click on "The Residences" button. On the next page, click on "Virtual Tour." On the next page, click on "Watch Video" and pick your preferred video format. Next you will see a fly-by animation of the property that should help you orient the project. (Basically, you've got it right.)
Thanks, Some Guy. I'll give it another try ... though I thought I'd already done that, but maybe I wasn't patient enough!