I found this on the Tulsa forum. As long as Tulsans continue to think this way, we're going to continue to fall behind as a state. Until we all work together will we finally further the state along. By the way, it was because of us, the citizens of Oklahoma City, that we became the city we have become today....it was because of MAPS.


"It's okay. When OKC claims how great it is, we can point and laugh because we've been able to support ourselves quite well on our own.

Oh, by the way, I hate OKC.

---Robert"

Send Robert up here to Detroit....he wont last one minute before they chew him up and spit him out.

I've retired from trying to help make amends. It really doesn't concern me whether Robert hates OKC or not. What happened with GM was out of our control, and a national issue. Shoot, I expected this to happen the moment Keating announced the retooling to make SUVs. That was five years ago. Didn't get my hopes down about OKC.

BTW, have fun in Detroit, Robert!

Patrick, I think we should just ignore the rivalry... and ignore Robert.

We know we have a GREAT city!!

Go Hornets!!

well im a tulsan and i love okc. As much as i love tulsa their isnt much to do here. on the other hand their is so much to do in okc.

Lots of people hate cities for lots of reasons. It's unfortunate that he has to dwell on hating OKC, but I'm not really sure that we're out to impress Tulsans. I know I'm not too concerned about it. OKC is nationally recognized for its progress as a city. I think Tulsa's contempt for OKC will only hold hem back, because it will prevent them from doing things we've done, even if it makes sense for their city. There's nothing that drags Oklahoma down more than Oklahomans hating other Oklahomans. It's just not big enough to sustain such a petty and insignificant rivalry and still compete nationally. i certinaly hope that our goals equate to more than simply staying one step ahead of Tulsa.

Lots of people hate cities for lots of reasons. It's unfortunate that he has to dwell on hating OKC, but I'm not really sure that we're out to impress Tulsans. I know I'm not too concerned about it. OKC is nationally recognized for its progress as a city. I think Tulsa's contempt for OKC will only hold hem back, because it will prevent them from doing things we've done, even if it makes sense for their city. There's nothing that drags Oklahoma down more than Oklahomans hating other Oklahomans. It's just not big enough to sustain such a petty and insignificant rivalry and still compete nationally. i certinaly hope that our goals equate to more than simply staying one step ahead of Tulsa.

not all tulsans are like that. But I still dont understand how anybody from tulsa or okc can hate each other. They act like its a rivalry when it really shouldnt be.

Very true. Not all Tulsans are like that. I've met really nice people in Tulsa, most are my inlaws. But there are some in Tulsa that enjoy hating us. That is something that will probably never change. I, on the other hand, have met few people here in OKC that hate Tulsa. I know a lot of people here that think there isn't as much to do in Tulsa (I'm one of them, and I go there more than a dozen times a year), but we don't go out of our way to hate Tulsa.

I used to know a couple that lived here from Tulsa who had something very negative to say almost every day about our city. It got old, eventually.

Very true. Not all Tulsans are like that. I've met really nice people in Tulsa, most are my inlaws. But there are some in Tulsa that enjoy hating us. That is something that will probably never change. I, on the other hand, have met few people here in OKC that hate Tulsa. I know a lot of people here that think there isn't as much to do in Tulsa (I'm one of them, and I go there more than a dozen times a year), but we don't go out of our way to hate Tulsa.

I used to know a couple that lived here from Tulsa who had something very negative to say almost every day about our city. It got old, eventually.

As a Tulsan I like to read more news about OKC than I do Tulsa. Its just more interesting with everything that is going on downtown OKC.

not all tulsans are like that.

Very true. Sorry if I made it sound like I was saying that. My mistake for speaking generally. I think there are many Tulsans that see the benefits of having two vibrant cities in the state and derive enjoyment from both. As with many things, though, those with negative feelings are often heard more often and sometimes get a disproportionate amount of influence.

roboticbrad List five things that you can do in OKC that you can't do in Tulsa??????? I think you are HIGH roboticbrad

roboticbrad List five things that you can do in OKC that you can't do in Tulsa??????? I think you are HIGH roboticbrad

1) Go to NBA games
2) Ride on the canal and bricktown
3) See big name artists concerts
4) Frontier city (Bell's is a joke)
5) National cowboy hall of fame

I will keep going

6) Omniplex
7) Big 12 championship basketball games
8) Big 12 championship baseball games
9) the okc zoo is much better than tulsa's
10) and the fact that you can downtown and have fun unlike tulsa.

Very nice list! I'll bet there are quite a few more things to do but I don't have a lot of time to post... I'm off to Bricktown to see the Hornets tonight and have dinner and drinks first maybe at Toby Keiths ...

I think I'll check out the progress on the Land Run Monument - and then drive by the new History Museum.. nah, I'm out of time.. too much to do, too little time..

:LolLolLol

BTW - Friday, wheeee - Snow tubing park is opening as well as the Christmas tree lighting ceremony - the Ice Skating rink serving hot chocolate will be open Friday too.. the lights will be spectacular this year - some big companies donating lots more lights..

Ju

roboticbrad you need to move to OKC you seem like it so much. And stay off drugs.

roboticbrad you need to move to OKC you seem like it so much. And stay off drugs.
Dont get me wrong i love tulsa, but i am actually planning on moving to OKC. Plus i dont do drugs

Let's not fight... you can do drugs in both cities.

;)

roboticbrad you need to move to OKC you seem like it so much. And stay off drugs.

Wow. Nice comeback. :LolLolLol

Children, children - where's our Thanksgiving spirit??? :LolLolLol

Happy Turkey Day everyone!

HAPPY THANKSGIVING to everyone in OKC from In_Tulsa :hungry:

HAPPY THANKSGIVING to everyone in Tulsa from Patrick :hungry:

By the way, my main goal in starting the thread wasn't to start a Tulsa vs. OKC debate. I personally like Tulsa. The issue I have with Tulsa is some of the people that live there that have the mentality of the guy I quoted above.

BTW, I'll admit, there are some people in OKC that treat Dallas the same way as some Tulsans treat OKC. That isn't right either.

Tulsa is the states most beautiful city and that is a fact......In 5-10 years Tulsa will be reviatlized. They are trying to get a MLS team in town, a Toby Keiths restaurant is rumored to be on the way, the new arena, the big Indian statue, and the river is begining to boom in Jenks....

One thing i think why Tulsans are angry is that OKC gets som much sympathy from loosing 2,500 jobs and Tulsa hardly got any when it lost 25,000.....

another thing, OKC gets much more help from the State than Tulsa does...i.e-better roads, more major highways, money to redo downtown, train service or any attention from any state office.....sad but true.

I hope you are right and our state becomes what it should be - a vibrant, growing community that boasts two beautiful large cities in which tourists will come and visit, spend money and furthering our economic growth.

Competing with each other does no good - we need to make an effort to work together - not compare who has what and who is better...

~Tulsa~ Happy Thanksgiving! from OKC

The anger in Tulsa right now was from seeing a state task force for GM employees.

Tulsa had at least five companies that lost more jobs than the 2200 GM is losing, no task force, no state notice at all. Tulsa lost a total of 25,000 jobs and most of what came from OKC was gloating about "look how good we are doing compared to you", no sympathy from many in the city, no assistance from the state.

It's kind of like the thread on this board where you are offended that people would say anything bad and then you start trashing NO for the support they gave the team.

Why are you getting mad at Oklahoma Citians for the way the STATE government works? You guys elected them too. Oklahoma City has more interstates because it's a bigger city in both population and geography. We were lucky to get Amtrak back at all. It makes a lot more sense to create a new route connecting OKC to DFW than it does to connect Tulsa to Newton, KS. And as far as I've ever heard, the state's Main Street program has offered downtown revitilization funding to just about every town in the state.

I didn't realize the unfairness on the GM task force thing, but I can tell you that you guys had my sympathy when you lost so many jobs with Williams, Citgo, and Worldcom. That hurt the whole state, not just Tulsa. I'm glad to see you guys rebounding.

Tulsa is the largest city in the NATION without a public hospital, free interstate access, amtrack service or a public four year university.

In the nation!

The task force is just again another example.

Tulsa is the largest city in the NATION without a public hospital, free interstate access, amtrack service or a public four year university.



wow- I didn't realize that, what's wrong with the Tulsa city leaders???

Tulsa is the largest city in the NATION without a public hospital, free interstate access, amtrack service or a public four year university.

In the nation!

The task force is just again another example.

Last time I checked, OKC doesn't have a PUBLIC 4 year university either. The closest 4 year universities are in Edmond and Norman. All we have in town are community colleges and private universities.

Well, there's only 1 public hospital in the state...they just happened to locate it in OKC. But, you guys have all of the OSU clinics associated with the DO school.

Our I-44 is toll roads on both sides just like yours. It isn't our fault you guys aren't in a location to have a major north and south or east and west interstate. Concerning I-44, we're really in the same boat. I'll agree with you on the amtrak service. I think it needs to be extended to Tulsa and then to KC. I also agree that I-44 in Tulsa needs to be widened.

Tulsa is very pretty -- in midtown and Southern Hills. Otherwise, it has some serious beautification issues.

Downtown Tulsa, like OKC, has a lot of parking lots and empty lots -- not very attractive.

The drive in to Tulsa on I-244 is U-G-L-Y. East Tulsa is U-G-L-Y. Far southeast Tulsa -- where most people are migrating -- is an ugly suburban mess with the worst traffic in the state, bar none.

Tulsa has a lot of things to cheer about, a certain degree of sophistication, and a lot of old oil money. But Tulsa is a very quiet city with not a lot to do. I go there all the time and it has been stagnating for more than a decade.

Remember, five years ago Tulsa was crowing about itself as being a tech boomtown. If you're going to ride the wave like that, you're going to have a fall.

Oklahoma City has far better city leadership than Tulsa. This is something I thought I would never see, but it's true.

The USA Today article this week quoted one of the Hornets players as saying Oklahoma City has a lot of "energy." This is also a term I never thought I would see ascribed to our city.

In-Tulsa, you look like a whiner with your thinly veiled attacks on our city. You're obviously interested in it, though, or you wouldn't bother to spend your time visiting this website.

nicely put about visiting the OKC website. i never thought i'd agree w/a sooner. haha

I just want to teach you guys about a REAL city. Who knows maybe you will learn something that's why I visit this site.

MAPS was not created nor drafted so Oklahoma City could be considered "Better" then Tulsa, or any other city in the nation....MAPS was created to stop the downward spiral the city had taken, especially after the loss of the United Airlines Maintainance Facility. One big reason, from what I understand, that United didn't choose us was because there was literally "zero quality of life" in their opinion here. MAPS was drawn up to bring back a quote "Quality of Life". It was meant to finally start bringing back the city core, which had been in decline since before the oil bust. The city was just growing too apart physically and "emotionally". Heck, instead of having just one chamber of commerce, we have (and still do to this day) have two - the OKC COC and the SOUTH Oklahoma City Chamber....???? I don't understand this. But back to the point...
Oklahoma City's citizen's finally have something they are proud of. Revitializing downtown has brought back a spirit and energy to this city, the likes I've never seen. The city and its citizens realize they are on the verge of watching OKC transform into more then they could ever vision. OKC IS GOING GREAT PLACES! and nothing will stop the momentum, including loosing GM. Heck, the 1995 bombing, although extremely tragic, brought this city closer together in ways never imagined. This was all BEFORE any of the MAPS projects were even started. Overall, Oklahoma City is a city full of great hopes and dreams, and there is now not one person nor event who can slow her down. EVERY citizen is now a PROUD citizen of this great city. There is finally "Energy" in the air here.......and it is extremely contiguous to anyone who steps in its whelm. Oklahoma City's new attitude represents what we want to become is not an attitude of "We are better, na na na..." Oklahoma City is a place full of people who are proud and enthusiastic of her, and we are just happy to be where we are today. If other cities want to praise us, let them. If they want to copy what we did, let them. If they want to criticize what we did, let them........ WE know who we are, and are PROUD OF IT!!!! WE knew what we had to do, and we did it. We took that huge first leap back in Oct. 1993 when we voted on MAPS, and we have been together as a unified city ever since, All working together towards goal after goal, in the meantime keeping focus on the magnificent results that have only yet begun.

I wish everyone would give this crap a rest. I'm tired of hearing about it. Yes, there are some things that us Tulsans are pissed about, and rightly so, but we should be mad at the people we are electing not OKC.

Both of our cities offer great and fun things to do. Bricktown is wonderful, especially if you stay away from Toby Keiths. It is unique, and fun. Tulsa still needs work, but we are on our way back. If both cities work together it could benefit the state in ways you may have never thought possible. First thing, though, is we need to elect better people.

I'd like to say sorry, that one stupid okie redneck can't keep his mouth shut. I hope you realize that he doesn't speak for all of us.

Now how did you know i was a stupid okie redneck? :bright_id I gotta go cow tippin now.

EVERY citizen is now a PROUD citizen of this great city

Very well said - a little story - I took my first time out of town visitors ( CA ) to the tree lighting last night and walked around Bricktown - I was so PROUD of our city! It was amazing - the canal was brilliant, it was just gorgeous downtown. We didn't have time to do a lot of things but there was so much to do.. we did do the walk down the canal past the snow tubing, we went into Bass Pro - ( boating) we drove by the Myriad Gardens and that was stunning! We stopped at the Memorial and walked around - it was just so touching and everyone was so polite - we ended up Pablanos at North Park ( another huge hit) and came home hearing comments like " are there really still buffalo here? - I didn't expect OKC to be like this, I thought it would be like a prairie!" I had to laugh - but seriously, they were so complimentary and had no idea that it would be so nice and have so many things to do.. suffice it to say - they will come back.

we ended up Pablanos at North Park ( another huge hit) and came home hearing comments like " are there really still buffalo here? - I didn't expect OKC to be like this, I thought it would be like a prairie!
Well to be honest thats what I thought before ever visiting and since that first time I have returned 13 times in two years. People dont know what they're missing. Not that the whole prairie and buffalo idea is all that bad but what you have there now is definately worth the trip. I remember the day the federal building was blown up I was at work watching it on t.v and at that time Oklahoma City never even crossed my mind as wanting to visit it thinking it was just a dust bowl, boy all those years I was missing out. Visiting the memorial for the first time and trying to picture what I saw on t.v that day was kind of unreal.

Tulsa is the states most beautiful city and that is a fact......

How is this a fact? Its a matter of opinion, one person's trash is another person's treasure. Its all in your definition of beauty. The states most beautiful city could have a population far smaller than OKC or Tulsa.

I hope you realize that he doesn't speak for all of us.

I think we do realize, yet we should be more careful about making generalities about the opinions of Tulsans. Many of you offer great insights on this board.

It's good that In_Tulsa is proud of his community and where he lives, but it's a shame that he can only express it or feel secure in it if he's bashing OKC in some way. Tulsa has a lot of potential and I think if it can get some success from its current projects in the pipeline, then you'll see it improve much faster, just as OKC has. You'll also find that, with that success, unmotivated leaders will be weeded out and not have a platform to run on.

But it is a provess. OKC's been at it for over 10 years and we still have a long way to go before we feel we're where we need to be. But the biggest difference is that now people and leaders believe we'll get there, whereas 15 years ago, many couldn't even see the point in trying.

roboticbrad List five things that you can do in OKC that you can't do in Tulsa??????? I think you are HIGH

1. NBA Basketball
2. Eat and shop and ride along a canal in a downtown entertainment district
3. OKC National Memorial
4. Capital Complex and the new Oklahoma History Museum
5. Ice skating downtown in front of the Civic Center
6. OKC MOA and the largest collection of Dale Chihuly glass in the world
7. A thriving downtown
8. Regatta's along the river
9. I need not go on

1. NBA Basketball
2. Eat and shop and ride along a canal in a downtown entertainment district
3. OKC National Memorial
4. Capital Complex and the new Oklahoma History Museum
5. Ice skating downtown in front of the Civic Center
6. OKC MOA and the largest collection of Dale Chihuly glass in the world
7. A thriving downtown
8. Regatta's along the river
9. I need not go on

You Rock!

Really, let's take a look at your weak little list:

1, NBA, Ok, I will give you that, but, how many games are there? Gambling is a better tourist draw than the NBA anyway, not many people travel to see NBA games. I would bet that far more people travel here to go to Tulsa's major casino's than go to NBA games. You are about to get your first “racino” while Tulsa break ground on it’s fourth major casino (a $120 million riverfront project)
2, Ah, eat and shop in Bricktown. The cuisine is Bricktown is terrible for the most part, outside of like four places it is made up of bland national and regional chain fair. I can’t tell you how many people say Bourbon Street is the best restaurant in Bricktown. Well, that’s a Tulsa chain and the original location on Cherry Street isn’t even the best restaurant in Cherry Street, and that’s not a top restaurant area in Tulsa. Instead of eating there, How about eat and shop and visit the aquarium and Riverwalk along a real river instead of a slimy little canal? And exactly how many "shops" are in bricktown, three? Saying you can go “shopping” in Bricktown in a real stretch. Or, maybe you would like to eat and shop at Utica Square, the regions finest major shopping center (region as in more than just Oklahoma), or in Brookside, arguable the best district for food in the state, though I am sure Utica Square would like to argue that. Brookside does also have some very nice shops and galleries, hell, just chose one, it’s a toss up, if you plan on more drinking then go to Brookside, if more shopping is your speed then go to Utica. Or hey, do BOTH, they aren’t even two miles apart.
3, We have no memorial, true, but we do have some of the best art deco in the nation, not quite the downer that a bombing memorial can be. Not sure how many people travel to OKC just to see the memorial. And Tulsa does have a very spooky, if unofficial, memorial, the Bank of Oklahoma Tower (the states tallest building) is a nearly identical somewhat scaled down version of one of the twin towers, it was built by the same architect in the same style and manner right after the World Trade Center. You can’t go anywhere near downtown in Tulsa and not see the building and think of 9/11. The “memorial” is 60 stories high.
4, Ah, the state capital complex and the new History center. The history center looks nice, really top notch, but the capital complex I think was designed by Stalin and have you gotten rid of all the streetwalkers and hourly motels around the capital? That’s really a great look for the state you know. Unless you are looking to buy drugs, I’m guessing more people would like Tulsa's Woodward park/Rose Garden Complex with the new Tulsa Historical Society Museum (you can add Philbrook three blocks away, Utica Square four blocks and Brookside six blocks all right there too)
5, No, Tulsa has no outdoor ice skating. Um, how long does that run for each year?
6, Please, don’t try to compare museums in the two cities, it’s not going to go well for OKC. You have a nice glass collection from one artist and the MOA center is very nice. It’s your best museum and it’s very well done. It’s no Gilcrease or Philbrook, but it is very nice. And please, don’t start to compare the Cowboy center to Gilcrease, that isn’t a winning argument, ever, for OKC. Gilcrease is far and away the largest and finest collection of western art in the world. You do have an advantage in modern art, Tulsa has some very fine modern art galleries, Living Arts for instance, but we don’t have a major facility devoted to it, we do need one.
7 Come on, a thriving downtown, when was the last major office building built in downtown OKC? 1984?, what is your vacancy rate? 30%? You (for now) have fewer hotel rooms, far fewer residents and far less office space than Tulsa's downtown, and Tulsa has more recent major buildings that are taller with far more people working downtown. Or do you have some other definition of thriving?
8, Regatta's? Um, we HAVE a river. The Arkansas River has to see 100 times more visitors than the "Oklahoma" river each year, how about we start with Riverparks? 200,000 people for 4th of July fireworks, 100,000 for Oktoberfest, and then, you know, thousands of people that go to the many miles of parkland along the river everyday. Not to mention the 500,000 people a year that go to the Aquarium, who knows how many to the Riverwalk or the Creek casino. Comparing the Oklahoma River and Tulsa’s Arkansas River is stupid and not even close. Tulsa's river has many, many millions of visits a year.
9, You had better go on, because your list is crap. You have Bricktown, really, you did a good job there at first but the effort is lacking as of late. Outside of that and the NBA, what even rivals Tulsa? We have Cherry Street, 18th St, Blue Dome, Brookside, and the Brady District. We have the Old Lady on Brady, and the Cain’s Ballroom, we are building one of the most architecturally significant arenas ever built, We have the Riverwalk, the Oklahoma Aquarium, The largest collection of western American art in the world at Gilcrease, the states best museum campus at Philbrook, the always interesting ORU campus, One of best Museums of Jewish Art in this part of the nation in the Sherwin Miller, the new Air and Space Museum, the new Historical Museum. Some of the greatest Art Deco buildings in the world, Riverparks, The state’s only real upscale shopping center in Utica Square, the state largest mall and shopping district in the Woodland Hills region, The states only real upscale casino-resort with another even larger one on the way. I too could go on……..

Wow, some of those overstatements put our overstatements to shame.

:LolLolLol

Swake you have NEVER spoke more truth. :yourock:

:LolLolLol Overstatements!! My thoughts exactly!

911?? OMG - LOL, LOL, LOL


Sorry you think our Memorial is such a 'downer'. Should we redesign it for a more upbeat cheerful feel? Please, that is so ridiculous I'm having a hard time even responding to it.

It's not your Memorial it's the fact that OKC has nothing that tulsa does not have.

On the other hand, we draw over 700,000 to the Festival of the Arts downtown every spring, even when it rains, and it almost always rains.

Incidentally, the Riverwalk and the Aquarium aren't in Tulsa; they're in Jenks.

Thank you for playing. We have lovely parting gifts.

That building in Tulsa is a exact scaled down replica of one of the twin Towers....Mezzanine and all. I read this intresting thing about it is that the stuff they didnt use in the building of were sent to Tulsa and put on the bok building.

Why do we keep having stupid threads like this? What people in Tulsa think about OKC is irrelevant. It has zero impact so why waste the bandwidth?

[QUOTE=swake] Not sure how many people travel to OKC just to see the memorial.QUOTE]
The memorial was actually one of the things on my list to see in OKC on one of my visits.

yawn what?

yawn what?

Sorry, I hadn't even seen your thread when I was posting. That's why I edited it so you wouldn't think I was being rude. The "yawn" was for the entire thread.

I agree, it is a ridiculous thread. We should support each other not try to put each other down, I don't know why we all get so defensive.

On the other hand, we draw over 700,000 to the Festival of the Arts downtown every spring, even when it rains, and it almost always rains.

Incidentally, the Riverwalk and the Aquarium aren't in Tulsa; they're in Jenks.

Thank you for playing. We have lovely parting gifts.

Hmm, Tulsa International Mayfest anyone? Been to both, pretty much the run of the mill downtown arts festival, every city has one.

Jenks in Tulsa now. How do I get my gifts? :tiphat:

There is NO WAY IN HADES that the festival of arts gets 700,000....MAYBE 20,000-30,000.

That building in Tulsa is a exact scaled down replica of one of the twin Towers....Mezzanine and all.
That building was originally called the Williams Center.
Prunepicker

swake, what drives you to prove something we already know too much about?

You can rightfully claim Tulsa has the state's largest mall (only by 100,000 sq. feet), something I do not consider significant. Honestly, though, outside the Woodland Hills Mall, what other major indoor mall is there? Eastland is near death, and the Promenade is but a smaller version of Quail Springs Mall.

You can rightfully claim Tulsa has the state's tallest building, but only by 167 feet, something I don't consider significant. There is no argument Tulsa's downtown is larger than in OKC, and with lower vacancies, but that doesn't mean OKC's downtown isn't thriving. You ask when are last major office building was built. You guessed right... 1984, but when was Tulsa's last major office building project? 1984 (Midcontinent Tower- I love that building). Yes, the fifteen story Williams Technology Center was completed in 2001, but that's one office building project. Devon Energy is quickly filling up Oklahoma City's tallest tower, and already occupies 100 percent of a 19-story tower just across the street. Who is to say another office project can't be built?

Our higher vacacy rates downtown is the sole responsibility of the First National Tower, 70 percent vacant. But it's vacant because the building's owners are cheap, and no one would rent office space there. It is no where near accomodating. But vacant office buildings are being converted to first class living space. And with Class C office space disappearing, who is to say there will not be demand for more Class A space, resulting in construction of another tower.

Tulsa has major corporate history with its downtown that ran deeper than in OKC. That doesn't mean that downtown would remain relatively small in terms of buildings.

We already know about all of Tulsa's districts, and if other parts of Tulsa are being tossed into the ring, why not bring up Oklahoma City's Western Avenue District? 63rd Street? May Avenue? The Quail Springs shopping region (this one is coming on rapidly)? How about Lake Hefner and its East Wharf dining establishments, or Lake Overholser and Lake Stanley Draper? Call them ponds all you want, but they are still in our backyard. Jenks? Let's toss Edmond's downtown and Spring Creek into the mix, along with Campus Corner in Norman. Agreed, Jenks Aquarium and Riverwalk Crossing is awesome.

Since you missed the current events, the hourly motels are long gone. But Tulsa chewed us out because taxes were used for demolition. We want to completely overhaul the state capitol complex, but I'm absolutely positive you'd be far from applause.... since it would require state funding. But while you're busy knocking the Capitol district, don't forget the growing OU Medical Center and Biotech Park just south of the capitol. That Biotech Park is bringing in some serious high-paying jobs. And private companies, as well.

Yes, I agree Tulsa's museums are serious world class. And thank you for your compliments on our MOA. It still is a work in progress, but when you're in town, swake, and you have time (when it's warm), there is a rooftop cocktail party at the OKC MOA every Thursday evening. And it gives a beautiful view of downtown OKC since it is right there.

Drugs aren't sold at the Myriad Gardens, and that park attracts a lot of out of state tourists, even more than I thought. There's a free concert evey Sunday at the water stage. And there is always the nationally renowned Oklahoma City Zoo & Botanical Gardens, next to Remington Park, next to the Omnidome, nex to Lincoln Park Golf Course, next to Tinseltown 20, next to the National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum, next to Coles Gardens. We call it the Adventure District.

I've been to Cherry Street. Had drinks at Kilkenny's. Very nice place, and it reminds me much of 63rd Street near Western. Same amount of restaurants, same size roughly, and probably the same traffic.

No I wouldn't compare the Arkansas River in Tulsa to the Oklahoma River. But we have a ton planned for the Oklahoma River, in Oklahoma City, not in a suburb, and nex to downtown, starting with the Native American Cultural Center. But don't snap. Tulsa wasn't even interested when the opportunity was presented. Sure, hundreds of thousands of Tulsans hit the Arkansas for the 4th, and Oktoberfest, but 700,000 hit downtown OKC for the Festival of the Arts, 100,000 downtown for the 4th, 440,000 for the Oklahoma RedHawks Triple-A baseball in Bricktown, another 320,000 for the Oklahoma City Blazers, over 100,000 so far for the NBA.

And, at least 55,000 are on hand every year downtown for Oklahoma City's annual New Year's Eve Opening Night, a party thrown by the city that happens all over downtown, the final piece of Downtown in December, a month-long bundle of downtown activities to celebrate the holidays.

What's nice about Tulsa is that most of its districts are pretty much all close together. And although I am all for casino gambling, which IS a big plus for Tulsa, but what makes Tulsa superior to us? What makes us superior to Tulsa?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Just differences. And those differences will be preferred by different people on different levels. Tulsa is a nice city, but I will never prefer it over Oklahoma City. Want I have planned is for Oklahoma City.

But just because someone in Tulsa prefers OKC gives no one justification to say he's high. Those are his preferences. Argument over.

We should ban these trolls. Really, they add nothing to the discussion. Tulsa is a city in decline -- as it has been for more than a decade.

So they're blowing all of their money on a new arena. Nice job, Tulsa, you blew your wad on one building without a tenant.

Tulsa has no significant renovation plans that even begin to touch MAPS in terms of what they will achieve.

The "riverwalk" in Jenks is an embarassing, architecturally diminutive joke.

Tulsa has neither chain nor local eclectic restaurants downtown, and surely nothing that would approach the cuisinary quality of the Mantle, Mickey Mantle's and Nonna's.

Sorry, idiots, the gloves are off. Cain's is great, but there's nothing else happening in Tulsa. It has become a bedroom community with a bunch of dying rich blue-hairs still living in Maple Ridge. Everything else pretty much sucks.

You have lost nearly all of your employment base. Of the large petroleum-related firms, only Williams remains, and it is still coming out of bankruptcy. Every other significant firm has abandoned your city. Were it not for Dollar/Thrifty, there would be no significant corporate presence there at all.

Dennis Miller said it best: "Tulsa is a city in which all the people with their petrodollars drive their Mercedes Benzes from one convenience store to another."

Oh, and by the way, Tulsa leads the nation in convenience stores per capita.

I remember when Tulsa was a semi-vibrant city. It's little more than an aging museum piece now. Some style, little substance.

Thank you for visiting our board. Now, get the hell out of here. We don't value your opinion and you provide nothing to the board besides juvenile flames.

Get lost, goof boy.

soonerguru I am sorry to make you so jealous. There are some nice houses for sale in Tulsa just let me know I can fix you up. :irule: :welcome55 to TULSA :closed:

I have nothing to prove, it was a dumb list implying there was nothing good in Tulsa to rival OKC. I didn’t knock your city so much as the list was ridiculous.

As for vacancy rates and conversion downtown, both cites have these problems with vacant buildings, both have significant activity going on and upcoming in these areas. You have the deal with Kerr McGee and six buildings, we have Maurice Kanbar (owns Skyy vodka) converting six buildings, we have the Philtower being converted now and I know of three other buildings that work planned or ongoing now. None of that includes the RFPs that are out now from the city for $9 million in development aid for downtown residential development. I am in no way saying downtown Tulsa is thriving, but neither is OKCs. It’s, in fact, outside of Bricktown, in worse shape than Tulsa’s and does not have a thriving midtown area next door like downtown Tulsa does. Midtown development is on the doorstep of downtown Tulsa now with $500,000 infill condos at 21st and Riverside in the Uptown area just to the south of downtown and $300,000 urban townhouses in the newly named Pearl District just to the east of downtown.

I also know that OKC has other districts, I agree Western is kind of like Cherry Street, a little smaller and Paseo is kind of like Brady, only a little smaller and more compact. But, while Tulsa does not have a Bricktown, OKC does not have a Riverwalk area or anything like Utica, Brookside or 18th St, all of which have residential infill development going on in the range of $300,000 to $2 million a unit, Cherry Street even has some activity in this area but not quite that price range, yet. Tulsa’s real work needs to be done downtown, but OKC has a very long and harder road to do something in the midtown area.

I didn’t mean to say that the Mariad Gardens was a place to buy drugs, I was talking about capital area with all the hookers and such. I’m glad the motels have come down, that is a very rough area. I don’t mind that taxes were used, but where were Tulsa’s funds to improve a region of this city? The area to the north and east of OSU-Tulsa for instance?

I didn’t intend to include every event in Tulsa and it’s attendance, just some of the ones on the river to compare to one event that got some people out to a regatta. I have been to the Oklahoma River, and it was a weekend and we were about the only people there. Again, this would not be a comparison I created. And the Arkansas does run by downtown Tulsa, Riverparks is beautiful in that area, and the low water dam keeps the river full, and you really should check out Tulsa’s river plan, it’s massive, with a lot planned for the area near downtown.

And to talk about Tulsa’s river, you should include Jenks. First of all, Tulsa didn’t annex all the land for 40 miles in each direct like OKC did. Downtown Jenks is like eight miles from Downtown Tulsa and only like four from Brookside, it’s not really that far. So, the reason to include something in Jenks when I would hesitate to include something in as a shopping district like the Smith Farm thing in Owasso is proximity. I didn’t mention the Stonewood Hills complex in Broken Arrow that includes our slightly larger Bass Pro, even though that is a slight tourist draw. The Jenks Riverwalk area IS park of the Tulsa river system, it’s not downtown, but it’s not far. The Creek Casino is less than a mile to north for instance. The Creek Nation has in fact bought the land directly to the north of the Riverwalk and wants to build a complimenting development, that land is in Tulsa, the border on the west side of the river is 91st St. The Aquarium and Riverwalk are separated by the 96th St bridge and a pedestrian bridge, these link the Riverwalk to Riverparks and a major shopping district in Tulsa directly. On the Tulsa side of the river I didn’t mention that the King’s Landing is now under construction, a center that is somewhat smaller but very like the Riverwalk. The area of the river is going to be huge and to take the parts out that are in Jenks just doesn’t make sense. Next up is the likely move of Bell’s Amusement Park to Jenks just south of the Aquarium and a low water dam at about 111th that will let all these attractions from the Creek Casino to Bell’s be linked by water taxis. Tulsa has it’s own Native American Cultural Center planned for the river at 71st st, also on the west bank a mile north of the Creek Nation Casino complex. There is also talk of a new baseball stadium at 21st on the west bank of the river in Riverparks.

You might soon be able compare this area to Bricktown, but with what is planned and with downtown Jenks and ORU right next door, it’s going to be far larger, with far more to do. The hotel room count has to be close too. There is a new hotel in Jenks with a second under construction, I hear another is planned for the Tulsa side, and there are at least three other hotels in the vicinity on the Tulsa side.

And if you want to start comparing Norman and Tulsa, then I will include Claremore and Bartlesville. That just gets to be a reach.

As for Guru’s post, whatever, but, I would say that Tsunami Sushi, and Lola’s at the Bowery are better than any restaurant in Bricktown, Baxter’s and Caz’s Chow House are at least the equal of any, and that’s not even mentioning the private clubs downtown.

And I never said anyone was high, just attacked a list that said there was little or nothing in Tulsa compared to OKC.

There is NO WAY IN HADES that the festival of arts gets 700,000....MAYBE 20,000-30,000.

EDIT: I stand corrected. Here are the stats for the festival in OKC given to me by a friend who has been on the commitee to chose artists for the event:


Annually, the Festival draws an audience of nearly 750,0000
The Festival requires the support of nearly 6,000 volunteers
Over 500 fine artists from across the nation apply to be one of the 144 artists selected for the show


For my money, I like Momentum much better. Now that's a party.