The outcry regarding another horrific mass shooting is justified. While the conversations pointing blame on the result of violence the conversations regarding the cause seem to be lacking. It seems when combining an overwhelming love/interest in our country violence from entertainment ie; movies, music, gaming along with an alarming rise in mental health issues -these two issues create the perfect storm for violent outburst as we tragically see in Texas. Even in Tulsa this week, one homeless man stabbed another homeless man to death and reports state 'mental illness'.

While talk of gun control, etc are justified in part -the larger and more difficult issue is how to deal with so much mental illness. Its my hope that among those in leadership we can hear of possible help for so many in our country who mental illness is a danger to others and themselves.

No easy answers -but its vital we devote time and resources toward helping the mentally ill.

The USA is not an outlier among the countries of the world with more mental illness than others.
Unfortunatly this gets mentioned as a way to avoid what the variable is in this country compared to other societies.
If the cause was truly mental illness then where is the funding to treat it?

The outcry regarding another horrific mass shooting is justified. While the conversations pointing blame on the result of violence the conversations regarding the cause seem to be lacking. It seems when combining an overwhelming love/interest in our country violence from entertainment ie; movies, music, gaming along with an alarming rise in mental health issues -these two issues create the perfect storm for violent outburst as we tragically see in Texas. Even in Tulsa this week, one homeless man stabbed another homeless man to death and reports state 'mental illness'.

While talk of gun control, etc are justified in part -the larger and more difficult issue is how to deal with so much mental illness. Its my hope that among those in leadership we can hear of possible help for so many in our country who mental illness is a danger to others and themselves.

No easy answers -but its vital we devote time and resources toward helping the mentally ill.

Basic comparative politics shows that this argument doesn't really get at the root cause. The US isn't an outlier among modern developed democracies when it comes to diagnoses of mental illnesses, counselors per capita or total spent on mental health. Neither is the US an outlier when it comes to access to violent movies, video games or music as our media is consumed all aorund the world.

What makes us different, and why these tragedies happen more here than any other developed democracy on earth, is guns.

Addressing mental health is good. Better healthcare overall is good. But we're fooling ourselves if we think that these measures will somehow stop events like yesterday from happening if we don't concurrently address guns. (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html)

The USA is not an outlier among the countries of the world with more mental illness than others.
Unfortunatly this gets mentioned as a way to avoid what the variable is in this country compared to other societies.
If the cause was truly mental illness then where is the funding to treat it?

But most other developed nations have some form of nationalized healthcare and the US doesn't even though US citizens spend more on healthcare with less actual healthcare unless you are a veteran like myself and have socialized healthcare which every citizen should have the right to healthcare

Most people can't afford mental healthcare in the US.

Countries with universal healthcare include Austria, Belarus, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Isle of Man, Italy, Luxembourg, Malta, Moldova, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Ukraine, and the United Kingdom.

Sure, in the US if you have access to a ton of money you get great everything and anything you need/want which is about 1% of the population

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries-2/

Nationalized healthcare and treating MI are two different things that should not be part of the same discussion when regarding mass murder and the causes.
The link below addresses this and the lack of mental illness treatment in countries not expieriencing the carnage that we face on a weekly basis.


https://m.dw.com/en/pay-up-or-put-it-off-europe-fails-to-treat-mental-health/a-56812344

Nationalized healthcare and treating MI are two different things that should not be part of the same discussion when regarding mass murder and the causes.
The link below addresses this and the lack of mental illness treatment in countries not expieriencing the carnage that we face on a weekly basis.


https://m.dw.com/en/pay-up-or-put-it-off-europe-fails-to-treat-mental-health/a-56812344

I disagree about healthcare and mental healthcare being two different things they are both healthcare. That is like saying dental and vision are not the same as healthcare it makes zero sense.

Maybe the world needs to take a look at how the VA in the US handles healthcare. I have zero issues getting mental healthcare using the VA in OKC or any other place I have lived. Access to healthcare is better than no access at all same with mental healthcare.

Of course easy access to firearms and having it in the constitution makes it very difficult.

This a good site

https://www.william-russell.com/blog/countries-best-mental-healthcare/

You might disagree but then why are people in these countries with guaranreed healthcare not getting treated? And why are these untreated people not shooting up schools?
As far as dental not being covered healthcare , have you been to the UK?
Read the link I provided.

You might disagree but then why are people in these countries with guaranreed healthcare not getting treated? And why are these untreated people not shooting up schools?
As far as dental not being covered healthcare , have you been to the UK?
Read the link I provided.

they are getting treated just not 56% of them, like I said some care is better than none and the US's problem of the 2nd amendment and the ease of access to firearms along with no affordable access to mental health care

I have been to the UK, Germany, Turkey, South Korea, Japan and Canada plus a few other countries and I read the link you provided

You might disagree but then why are people in these countries with guaranreed healthcare not getting treated? And why are these untreated people not shooting up schools?
As far as dental not being covered healthcare , have you been to the UK?
Read the link I provided.

This a good site as well

crazy, seems across the board that countries do not invest much into mental health care

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/may/mental-health-conditions-substance-use-comparing-us-other-countries

It's not just the ease of access to guns, it's an entire American gun culture that goes back for generations.

I've mentioned this before but guns are way, way more common in places like Oklahoma where many people grew up shooting in rural areas and/or hunting.

Compare to somewhere like L.A. where even though there is much more violent crime, guns are not part of the culture at all. Same is true in most big cities.

Yet, I have friends in gated communities in Edmond that swear they need guns "to protect their family". Almost all of these people grew in areas or families where guns had been a part of their life. Also, somewhere along the line the NRA went from a gun safety and recreation group to being on the constant warpath in the culture wars.

It's something that is handed down from generation to generation, it's just that a lot of these people now live in suburbs rather than on farms or in small towns.

It's not just the ease of access to guns, it's an entire American gun culture that goes back for generations.

I've mentioned this before but guns are way, way more common in places like Oklahoma where many people grew up shooting in rural areas and/or hunting.

Compare to somewhere like L.A. where even though there is much more violent crime, guns are not part of the culture at all. Same is true in most big cities.

Yet, I have friends in gated communities in Edmond that swear they need guns "to protect their family". Almost all of these people grew in areas or families where guns had been a part of their life. Also, somewhere along the line the NRA went from a gun safety and recreation group to being on the constant warpath in the culture wars.

It's something that is handed down from generation to generation, it's just that a lot of these people now live in suburbs rather than on farms or in small towns.

I don't disagree with what you said but I do believe ease of access is crazy in the U.S.

when I bought my HK 9mm I did it on my lunch hour, walked out with a firearm and ammo in 20 minutes.

The ease of access is directly related to the culture.

It's seriously embedded in the U.S. and thus nearly impossible to change, especially with the past influence of the NRA. But their power has been greatly diminished, so maybe that will be the first step towards some sort of sanity.

I don't disagree with what you said but I do believe ease of access is crazy in the U.S.

when I bought my HK 9mm I did it on my lunch hour, walked out with a firearm and ammo in 20 minutes.

Word.

As a conservative and supporter of the 2A, I'm at the point where I would accept expanded background checks as a fact of life. In order to get a CCP in Canadian County I had to jump through a lot of hoops before it was issued, i.e. fingerprint, background check, training, and the approval of the County Sheriff. I thought this was a PITA but reasonable when considering the responsibility and privilege I was being given. I imagine that in most Counties the mentally ill are probably known by LE due to the probability that they have come up on the "radar" at some point. Constitutional Carry did away with the requirements for an extensive background check...I think. Also, it's a shame that we have to do it, but I'm supportive of expanded security measures at EVERY school in Oklahoma. The money we've thrown away on foreign matters could be more wisely used to beef up security in our schools. I'm not going to go into detail but I have been a Security Consultant and performed inspections and made recommendations for enhanced security for many large Companies. Access control should be at the forefront of a good plan for our schools. It wouldn't be too expensive to lockdown schools and provide all authorized students and personnel with keycards, etc. Video cameras are relatively inexpensive and when used with "mantrap" entrances they would provide pretty fair security. Like I said, it's a shame we're at this point, but it is what it is. I don't believe taking guns away from honest citizens would help much.

As a conservative and supporter of the 2A, I'm at the point where I would accept expanded background checks as a fact of life. In order to get a CCP in Canadian County I had to jump through a lot of hoops before it was issued, i.e. fingerprint, background check, training, and the approval of the County Sheriff. I thought this was a PITA but reasonable when considering the responsibility and privilege I was being given. I imagine that in most Counties the mentally ill are probably known by LE due to the probability that they have come up on the "radar" at some point. Constitutional Carry did away with the requirements for an extensive background check...I think. Also, it's a shame that we have to do it, but I'm supportive of expanded security measures at EVERY school in Oklahoma. The money we've thrown away on foreign matters could be more wisely used to beef up security in our schools. I'm not going to go into detail but I have been a Security Consultant and performed inspections and made recommendations for enhanced security for many large Companies. Access control should be at the forefront of a good plan for our schools. It wouldn't be too expensive to lockdown schools and provide all authorized students and personnel with keycards, etc. Video cameras are relatively inexpensive and when used with "mantrap" entrances they would provide pretty fair security. Like I said, it's a shame we're at this point, but it is what it is. I don't believe taking guns away from honest citizens would help much.

I think it should be much harder to buy AR-15s. Why an 18 year old could walk in and easily obtain that plus multiple rounds of ammunition is a problem, IMO.

In almost every mass shooting, there are reports that law enforcement was made aware of a person in distress. Yet, in those cases, there is nothing legally for them to do. You may seem like a wackadoo to me but if you haven't committed a crime -- or, as one of the NRA-killed proposals enumerated, had had a restraining order filed against you -- there is nothing law enforcement can do to take your firearms.

I'm not in favor of disarming the population, plus, the very idea of it is total fantasy. But I think we need to seriously reconsider access to ammo and in particular firearms that make it easy to waste dozens of people in a matter of seconds, such as the AR-15.

I'm glad you support expanding background checks. I would hope that if that is done (HINT: It won't be done because half of the Senate will totally stonewall it), it would close the loop that allows private sales and sales at certain gun shows to happen without a background check.

I agree with hiring security consultants to protect schools, but look at Oklahoma! We don't fund education adequately as it is. Adding entire security protocols seems like a good idea but costs money. If the money is not appropriated this will just be an unfunded mandate, such as the silly window-dressing bill proposed by the legislator in Oklahoma today.

Making it harder (even almost impossible in some cases) to go out and buy an AR so you can waste a bunch of kids or people in Las Vegas enjoying a country music concert is not an example of "taking guns away from honest citizens." That is how it is reframed and mischaracterized by politicians who are doing the bidding of the gun lobby. Remember, the NRA exists to support gun manufacturers, first and foremost. And, gun manufacturers make a lot of money when people are freaked out and buy lots of guns and ammo. When their members are told firearms are going to be confiscated or outlawed, people run to gun shops and buy more guns and ammo. This has led to a ridiculous and unsustainable number of firearms in our country. It's also led to a precipitous decline in reasonable civic conversations, such as this one, about gun reform. The gun lobby is constantly using fear-based tactics to keep its constituency angry and afraid, which is corrosive to our national politics but keeps people running to buy more firearms.

It's not like this anywhere else on earth. Other major countries have mental illness, and violent movies, and people who don't go to church, and the Internet, and guess what? They don't have mass school and Wal-Mart and grocery store shootings every other week. We do. Yes, it's cultural, but it's also a result of the ridiculous availability of weapons of mass murder and piles and piles of easily obtainable ammo.

For someone such as yourself, or someone who is licensed and has to continue to renew their license, such so-called assault rifles could be made available, but there should be a serious background check and follow-up background checks on top of background checks. Further, any weapon like that used in a mass murder through carelessness, such as the one used in Sandy Hook which was not adequately locked up, should make the gun owner culpable in the mass homicide.

if you have a weapon of mass murder in your home, it should be your responsibility to keep it locked away and secured.

This is just common sense, and in no way infringes on people's constitutional rights. It shouldn't be easier to buy an AR-15 than a friggin beer. At least in Oklahoma now you can legally buy a joint at 18-- but it still takes longer to get the license for that than it does to buy a ************* AR-15 and go mow down a bunch of elementary kids and their teachers.

90% of Americans support background checks. It’s elite Republicans who are funded and lobbied by the NRA that prevent popular laws from passing. These laws could pass tomorrow if even just a couple Republicans cared.

Unfortunately, there’s a lot of evidence that quantity of guns equals quantity of gun deaths. I’m under no illusion that passing common sense gun control laws will solve the problem. But it could help. And we have to try. No parents should have to go through what happened. And the murderer’s accomplice were Texas Republicans who just recently made it so 18 year old could get a gun without any barriers. You can’t buy a beer or rent a car at 18. It’s all pathetic.

Thoughts and prayers.

90% of Americans support background checks. It’s elite Republicans who are funded and lobbied by the NRA that prevent popular laws from passing. These laws could pass tomorrow if even just a couple Republicans cared.

Unfortunately, there’s a lot of evidence that quantity of guns equals quantity of gun deaths. I’m under no illusion that passing common sense gun control laws will solve the problem. But it could help. And we have to try. No parents should have to go through what happened. And the murderer’s accomplice were Texas Republicans who just recently made it so 18 year old could get a gun without any barriers. You can’t buy a beer or rent a car at 18. It’s all pathetic.

Almost every gun sale in America has background checks. Buying a beer is not a constitutionally protected right.

I think it should be much harder to buy AR-15s. Why an 18 year old could walk in and easily obtain that plus multiple rounds of ammunition is a problem, IMO.

In almost every mass shooting, there are reports that law enforcement was made aware of a person in distress. Yet, in those cases, there is nothing legally for them to do. You may seem like a wackadoo to me but if you haven't committed a crime -- or, as one of the NRA-killed proposals enumerated, had had a restraining order filed against you -- there is nothing law enforcement can do to take your firearms.

I'm not in favor of disarming the population, plus, the very idea of it is total fantasy. But I think we need to seriously reconsider access to ammo and in particular firearms that make it easy to waste dozens of people in a matter of seconds, such as the AR-15.

I'm glad you support expanding background checks. I would hope that if that is done (HINT: It won't be done because half of the Senate will totally stonewall it), it would close the loop that allows private sales and sales at certain gun shows to happen without a background check.

I agree with hiring security consultants to protect schools, but look at Oklahoma! We don't fund education adequately as it is. Adding entire security protocols seems like a good idea but costs money. If the money is not appropriated this will just be an unfunded mandate, such as the silly window-dressing bill proposed by the legislator in Oklahoma today.

Making it harder (even almost impossible in some cases) to go out and buy an AR so you can waste a bunch of kids or people in Las Vegas enjoying a country music concert is not an example of "taking guns away from honest citizens." That is how it is reframed and mischaracterized by politicians who are doing the bidding of the gun lobby. Remember, the NRA exists to support gun manufacturers, first and foremost. And, gun manufacturers make a lot of money when people are freaked out and buy lots of guns and ammo. When their members are told firearms are going to be confiscated or outlawed, people run to gun shops and buy more guns and ammo. This has led to a ridiculous and unsustainable number of firearms in our country. It's also led to a precipitous decline in reasonable civic conversations, such as this one, about gun reform. The gun lobby is constantly using fear-based tactics to keep its constituency angry and afraid, which is corrosive to our national politics but keeps people running to buy more firearms.

It's not like this anywhere else on earth. Other major countries have mental illness, and violent movies, and people who don't go to church, and the Internet, and guess what? They don't have mass school and Wal-Mart and grocery store shootings every other week. We do. Yes, it's cultural, but it's also a result of the ridiculous availability of weapons of mass murder and piles and piles of easily obtainable ammo.

For someone such as yourself, or someone who is licensed and has to continue to renew their license, such so-called assault rifles could be made available, but there should be a serious background check and follow-up background checks on top of background checks. Further, any weapon like that used in a mass murder through carelessness, such as the one used in Sandy Hook which was not adequately locked up, should make the gun owner culpable in the mass homicide.

if you have a weapon of mass murder in your home, it should be your responsibility to keep it locked away and secured.

This is just common sense, and in no way infringes on people's constitutional rights. It shouldn't be easier to buy an AR-15 than a friggin beer. At least in Oklahoma now you can legally buy a joint at 18-- but it still takes longer to get the license for that than it does to buy a ************* AR-15 and go mow down a bunch of elementary kids and their teachers.

And AR 15 is not a military weapon. And it is not a a very powerful weapon. It is a .223

Maybe vilifying police and demanding that police not be in schools is a little unhelpful

And AR 15 is not a military weapon. And it is not a a very powerful weapon. It is a .223

Maybe vilifying police and demanding that police not be in schools is a little unhelpful

Who is doing that? Bizarre cheap shot from you that has nothing to do whatsoever with my post. This is the kind of off-topic comment that you often resort to when controversial subjects are being discussed.

I don't know what you're trying to suggest here but I don't see anyone here vilifying police. That is a straw man argument that doesn't relate to the discussion up thread.

Regarding the police, the school in Uvalde had an armed officer on duty, who exchanged gunfire with the assailant. Also, many police arrived quickly but the killer was allowed to continue his assault for up to 90 minutes according to this article.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10855093/Furious-father-Texas-school-shooting-victim-slams-police-failing-stop-gunman-HOUR.html

Almost every gun sale in America has background checks. Buying a beer is not a constitutionally protected right.

Operative word.

Almost every gun sale in America has background checks. Buying a beer is not a constitutionally protected right.

My 16 year old cousin walked into a gun show in Canadian County with cash, walked out with a gun. No questions asked, no ID, nada. I could've done the exact same thing if I wanted to and it's not like this was a decade ago. We are the same age and I am 19 now. You can do the math on that but to correct you, almost every registered gun sale in America has background checks.

Hard to understand how we can spend $40B at the drop of a hat on Ukraine miliary aid, but can't do the same thing to harden security at schools--infrastructure changes and an appropriate security guard-to-student ratio for EVERY public school in the nation would be a good start. I just don't get how we can spend for one thing with rapidity, but something like this can't get the same treatment. I feel like hardening school security would have widespread public support and bipartisan political support. That is doing SOMETHING. It is a place to start since gun control legislation can't seem to get traction.

If only semantics about AR-15’s not being classified as a military weapon or it using a .223 cartridge eliminates it from being viewed as a “powerful weapon” could have saved those fourth graders at school or those shoppers at the grocery store. Oh well, I guess since it meets the criteria for what is allowed then that relinquishes our responsibility to do anything to attempt to diminish the increasing regularity these events occur.

And AR 15 is not a military weapon. And it is not a a very powerful weapon. It is a .223

Maybe vilifying police and demanding that police not be in schools is a little unhelpful

Hmm. Then why are both used as the standard rifle and round for the US Military? The M4 is a just a newer derivative of the original 1959 AR-15 and the 5.56×45mm is a nearly identical derivative of the .223 round...

And AR 15 is not a military weapon. And it is not a a very powerful weapon. It is a .223

Maybe vilifying police and demanding that police not be in schools is a little unhelpful

Same caliber as an M-16. Why did the miliary use such a " not poweful weapon"?.

Hard to understand how we can spend $40B at the drop of a hat on Ukraine miliary aid, but can't do the same thing to harden security at schools--infrastructure changes and an appropriate security guard-to-student ratio for EVERY public school in the nation would be a good start. I just don't get how we can spend for one thing with rapidity, but something like this can't get the same treatment. I feel like hardening school security would have widespread public support and bipartisan political support. That is doing SOMETHING. It is a place to start since gun control legislation can't seem to get traction.

Yet the speed Congress passed legislation in response to peacefull protests outside the homes of S.C. justices was mind numbing.

Turning schools into prisons and teachers into armed guards is not a solution.

And AR 15 is not a military weapon. And it is not a a very powerful weapon. It is a .223

Maybe vilifying police and demanding that police not be in schools is a little unhelpful

The AR 15 originally designed by ArmaLite was made for infantrymen and a .223 is almost identical to the 5.56 and the rifle itself is identical to an M16/M4 except the AR style rifle does not have the option of 3 round burst like the M16/M4 have, this style of rifle was designed to kill in combat and to say otherwise is disingenuous at best.

Almost every gun sale in America has background checks. Buying a beer is not a constitutionally protected right.
They run a NICS search. I almost hate hearing that called a background check. We have an NICS run on every potential new employee to determine if they're even goin to have a chance at passing a background investigation. NICS really only catches arrests and other legal or court actions. Not a chance of catching any instabilities that should keep someone from buying a gun.

The whole situation is extremely disturbing. Yes, "something" has to be done. I've worked in facilities that have extreme security measures and never thought I was in a prison. Unfortunately these times demand unprecedented actions and when an 18 year old, non-military young person, can purchase a weapon without local LE at least looking into his/her background, then it is time to probably update the law. I wouldn't consider this a "gun grab" in any way. Back in the day we didn't have live action, realistic, shooter type video games to occupy our time. Mental illness is probably amplified by spending huge amounts of time in this type of activity. Obviously not all people that play these types of games are negatively affected, but if you add mental illness, drug use, youth, and isolation to the mix your looking at a time bomb. There's a lot to be done. I pray that these innocent kids RIP and their parents find some kind of solace.

Same caliber as an M-16. Why did the miliary use such a " not poweful weapon"?.
Exactly. Military and law enforcement use .223s. And obviously they have enough stopping power. As much as a 30-06 or a 7mm no. But definitely enough. Or in the hands of a mentally ill person too much.

They run a NICS search. I almost hate hearing that called a background check. We have an NICS run on every potential new employee to determine if they're even goin to have a chance at passing a background investigation. NICS really only catches arrests and other legal or court actions. Not a chance of catching any instabilities that should keep someone from buying a gun.

Yes, that's why I think we should go back to the County Sheriff and local PD for input. The Constitutional Carry, although popular, is probably going too far. If one is an honest citizen then they should not object too much, knowing that the intent is not to limit purchase but to weed out the "nuts."

I’d like to see a movement to repeal the federal immunity to civil liability given to gun manufactures. They should be liable for any negligence their company commits just like every other product manufacturer. We need to financially disincentivize the manufactures of these products in the market.

so much for the party of pro life haha

I'm not a dem or rep by the way they both are corrupt

Yes, that's why I think we should go back to the County Sheriff and local PD for input. The Constitutional Carry, although popular, is probably going too far. If one is an honest citizen then they should not object too much, knowing that the intent is not to limit purchase but to weed out the "nuts."

personal carry rights are likely to be significantly expanded by SCOTUS very very soon

Exactly. Military and law enforcement use .223s. And obviously they have enough stopping power. As much as a 30-06 or a 7mm no. But definitely enough. Or in the hands of a mentally ill person too much.

military and police also use a 9mm hand gun which is also not very powerful ..

of course all of that is in context it is still a fire arm thus is is still powerful

Yet the speed Congress passed legislation in response to peacefull protests outside the homes of S.C. justices was mind numbing.

Turning schools into prisons and teachers into armed guards is not a solution.

But it IS a solution. Apparently not one YOU like, but it IS a solution. Just sweeping it away as you did is just not honest debate.

military and police also use a 9mm hand gun which is also not very powerful ..

of course all of that is in context it is still a fire arm thus is is still powerful
And just like .223 rounds 9mm has proven for years to be quite deadly.

But it IS a solution. Apparently not one YOU like, but it IS a solution. Just sweeping it away as you did is just not honest debate.

It is not a solution because it will never happen. Nothing will happen as far as legislating goes until Citizens United is overturned by the moronic supreme court that upheld it in the first place...tell me SCOTUS is not corrupt with a straight face

But it IS a solution. Apparently not one YOU like, but it IS a solution. Just sweeping it away as you did is just not honest debate.
You are correct in claiming it is a solution. So is repealing the 2A. Either solution has an about the same chance.

It is not a solution because it will never happen. Nothing will happen as far as legislating goes until Citizens United is overturned by the moronic supreme court that upheld it in the first place...tell me SCOTUS is not corrupt with a straight face

what does citizens united have to do with the 2nd amendment

Second Amendment Gun rights are getting ready to be expanded by the court anyday now ..

what does citizens united have to do with the 2nd amendment

Second Amendment Gun rights are getting ready to be expanded by the court anyday now ..

I didn't say anything about 2A

with citizens united corporations can throw as much money at politicians as they like legally and in turn creates corruption. Politicians do not represent the people they represent their donors.

The US is not a democracy it is an oligarchy and a kleptocracy

90% of Americans support background checks. It’s elite Republicans who are funded and lobbied by the NRA that prevent popular laws from passing. These laws could pass tomorrow if even just a couple Republicans cared.

Unfortunately, there’s a lot of evidence that quantity of guns equals quantity of gun deaths. I’m under no illusion that passing common sense gun control laws will solve the problem. But it could help. And we have to try. No parents should have to go through what happened. And the murderer’s accomplice were Texas Republicans who just recently made it so 18 year old could get a gun without any barriers. You can’t buy a beer or rent a car at 18. It’s all pathetic.

Since a high percentage of mass shooters are in the 16-20 age, the minimum age for buying a gun should be set at 21 in every state. As what happened to raise the drinking age to every state to 21, the federal government would have to withhold some kind of federal funding to get every state to comply.

Who is doing that? Bizarre cheap shot from you that has nothing to do whatsoever with my post. This is the kind of off-topic comment that you often resort to when controversial subjects are being discussed.

I don't know what you're trying to suggest here but I don't see anyone here vilifying police. That is a straw man argument that doesn't relate to the discussion up thread.

Regarding the police, the school in Uvalde had an armed officer on duty, who exchanged gunfire with the assailant. Also, many police arrived quickly but the killer was allowed to continue his assault for up to 90 minutes according to this article.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10855093/Furious-father-Texas-school-shooting-victim-slams-police-failing-stop-gunman-HOUR.html

It's now been revealed that after crashing the car, the shooter roamed around the school for at least 12 minutes before entering, and was never confronted by anyone, including the school resource officer. Also, harrowing video was released showing frantic patents begging the police to take action. The shooter was in the building murdering children for about an hour before he was shot.

It seems that entire press conference by Governor Abbot yesterday was a sham.

The school had conducted an active shooter drill as recently as March, but they didn't seem remotely prepared. I don't really blame them, because paramilitary defense is not what we are paying these people to do.

Do school resource officers need to be prepared to confront shooters with tons of ammo and AR-style weapons? Yes, they do, because that is the weaponry of choice of school shooters.

I see no easy solution here but surely we can make an effort to make weaponry of that sort very difficult to obtain.

The ease of access is directly related to the culture.

It's seriously embedded in the U.S. and thus nearly impossible to change, especially with the past influence of the NRA. But their power has been greatly diminished, so maybe that will be the first step towards some sort of sanity.

I just have to say, l have many, many Republican friends across the country - across the board in terms of overall conservative beliefs. In my "old man" years of life, l have never heard one of them utter the words or the initials of the NRA. The NRA takes in a lot of political money from the gun lobby (naturally) and wealthy conservatives trying to weild influence.

I see Dems as mistaking political influence over politicians vs. the overwhelming majority of Republicans who pay little-to-no attention to it. The average Rep may agree with some stances of the NRA but trying to say it has vast influence is missing the point. The right-wing gun culture centers on sport shooting, a sense of protection, military training, overall interest in guns and a growing distrust of government in general.

The NRA is a gun-based boogeyman who l don't necessarily agree with on many issues that is a convenient target in situations like Uvalde just like the left throws out FoxNews and the right plays the George Soros, Steven Colbert, MSNBC/CNN cards.

The problem with mass shootings is far deeper than just easy access and the NRA. ANYONE who mows down other kids suffers from mental problems and these problems are widespread in the high school and post HS age group. My son's HS in CO had a shooter and over 1/2 a dozen suicides. To stop all of this, people MUST STOP PLAYING POLITICAL BS GAMES and start taking some very hard looks at the hatred that is constantly overwhelming them.

They see hate and violence and the political sh*t slinging from both sides - all of us all the way to the POTUS (past and present) are guilty. Kids get on social media and see more hate. They see bullying from classmates, hate from teachers who don't like their work or opinions, online bullying, race blaming, hate in history lessons from wars fought, additional hate from "new" history, hate from BLM, hate of BLM, hate from anarchists, hate of anarchists, hate from Capitol invaders, meme hate online, late night talk show hate, online video hate, online gaming hate, violent video games where killing wins points, endless online hate trolls...... there are SO many more. Let's not forget violence, drugs, rampant crime, out of control housing costs, plummeting buying power, supply shotages, global warming and tensions from Russia and China.

These killings are from induced mental illness and hoplessness, plain and simple. These kids may truly be deranged but they also lack guidance, family support, direction, social fullfillment, social skills and morality. Uvalde was an hispanic kid that killed (l think) all hispanic victims and family. Some killings are race-based, some are revenge-based, some are political and some are pure mystery.

I don't have all the answers and l have surely left out many of my thoughts. What l do know is l'm glad the politics threads are gone because politics has become nothing but hate - those threads included and l accept my share of responsibility - but there are a dozen or more of you still out there who bear some responsibility, too.

It's gotten so everyone blames everyone else for everything. Politicians Our national leaders villify the other party for high crimes and treason knowing full-well their party did the exact same thing. Dems villify Reps for Jan. 6 but ignore Hillary Clinton & the DNC fabricating the entire Russia narrative and possibly committing treason. Reps want abortion banned but won't commit money for children's health.

It's all responses to overwheming hate twisted into the individual justifications for going out and killing a bunch of people. Kids who want to justify their own hate and go out as "notorious" killers who got publicity.

Like l said, l don't have answers so l won't debate this but the simplistic response is to blame the NRA, Republicans, easy access to guns, gun culture, the 2nd amendment, the SCOTUS, blah, blah, blah. Not one gun pulled it's own trigger. Sick kids did and there are a lot more of them out there who just committed quiet suicide, grew out of it, got help, turn to lesser violence, get addicted to drugs, carry lifelong baggage. Kids need help that leaves out hate, leaves out blame, leaves out politics, leaves out gender, leaves out everything but helping kids learn how to cope with life.

Peace out.

It's not just the ease of access to guns, it's an entire American gun culture that goes back for generations.

I've mentioned this before but guns are way, way more common in places like Oklahoma where many people grew up shooting in rural areas and/or hunting.

Compare to somewhere like L.A. where even though there is much more violent crime, guns are not part of the culture at all. Same is true in most big cities.

Yet, I have friends in gated communities in Edmond that swear they need guns "to protect their family". Almost all of these people grew in areas or families where guns had been a part of their life. Also, somewhere along the line the NRA went from a gun safety and recreation group to being on the constant warpath in the culture wars.

It's something that is handed down from generation to generation, it's just that a lot of these people now live in suburbs rather than on farms or in small towns.

P. S. - No offense meant, Pete, just disagreement with your statement... lf you don't think LA has a gun culture of it's own, you're not looking. LA alone had 570 reports of shots-fired in just the first 2 months this year. LA has a culture which condones gun violence to gain respect and to resolve simple issues as do most all big cities. It's simply a different gun culture foundation.

The main issue I feel we're overlooking is the mental health crisis our country seems to be facing. Each mass shooting perpetrator or even one on one murder from 'some' homeless individual comes from mental health crisis. I wished someone, far smarter than I am, could somehow come up with a plan to help those who, without mental health intervention, will likely cause innocent death of many just as we've experienced in recent years. Yes, guns are a large part of the problem. But poor mental health is by far the larger problem.

Hard to understand how we can spend $40B at the drop of a hat on Ukraine miliary aid, but can't do the same thing to harden security at schools--infrastructure changes and an appropriate security guard-to-student ratio for EVERY public school in the nation would be a good start. I just don't get how we can spend for one thing with rapidity, but something like this can't get the same treatment. I feel like hardening school security would have widespread public support and bipartisan political support. That is doing SOMETHING. It is a place to start since gun control legislation can't seem to get traction.

We've been spending money on hardening schools since Columbine and we can all see how well that has worked out, it's clearly time to try something else.

nothing will happen as long as citizens united continues to be upheld

incase you don't know what CU is

In 2010, the organization won a U.S. Supreme Court case known as Citizens United v. FEC, which struck down as unconstitutional a federal law prohibiting corporations and unions from making expenditures in connection with federal elections.

I just have to say, l have many, many Republican friends across the country - across the board in terms of overall conservative beliefs. In my "old man" years of life, l have never heard one of them utter the words or the initials of the NRA. The NRA takes in a lot of political money from the gun lobby (naturally) and wealthy conservatives trying to weild influence.

I see Dems as mistaking political influence over politicians vs. the overwhelming majority of Republicans who pay little-to-no attention to it. The average Rep may agree with some stances of the NRA but trying to say it has vast influence is missing the point. The right-wing gun culture centers on sport shooting, a sense of protection, military training, overall interest in guns and a growing distrust of government in general.

The NRA is a gun-based boogeyman who l don't necessarily agree with on many issues that is a convenient target in situations like Uvalde just like the left throws out FoxNews and the right plays the George Soros, Steven Colbert, MSNBC/CNN cards.

The problem with mass shootings is far deeper than just easy access and the NRA. ANYONE who mows down other kids suffers from mental problems and these problems are widespread in the high school and post HS age group. My son's HS in CO had a shooter and over 1/2 a dozen suicides. To stop all of this, people MUST STOP PLAYING POLITICAL BS GAMES and start taking some very hard looks at the hatred that is constantly overwhelming them.

They see hate and violence and the political sh*t slinging from both sides - all of us all the way to the POTUS (past and present) are guilty. Kids get on social media and see more hate. They see bullying from classmates, hate from teachers who don't like their work or opinions, online bullying, race blaming, hate in history lessons from wars fought, additional hate from "new" history, hate from BLM, hate of BLM, hate from anarchists, hate of anarchists, hate from Capitol invaders, meme hate online, late night talk show hate, online video hate, online gaming hate, violent video games where killing wins points, endless online hate trolls...... there are SO many more. Let's not forget violence, drugs, rampant crime, out of control housing costs, plummeting buying power, supply shotages, global warming and tensions from Russia and China.

These killings are from induced mental illness and hoplessness, plain and simple. These kids may truly be deranged but they also lack guidance, family support, direction, social fullfillment, social skills and morality. Uvalde was an hispanic kid that killed (l think) all hispanic victims and family. Some killings are race-based, some are revenge-based, some are political and some are pure mystery.

I don't have all the answers and l have surely left out many of my thoughts. What l do know is l'm glad the politics threads are gone because politics has become nothing but hate - those threads included and l accept my share of responsibility - but there are a dozen or more of you still out there who bear some responsibility, too.

It's gotten so everyone blames everyone else for everything. Politicians Our national leaders villify the other party for high crimes and treason knowing full-well their party did the exact same thing. Dems villify Reps for Jan. 6 but ignore Hillary Clinton & the DNC fabricating the entire Russia narrative and possibly committing treason. Reps want abortion banned but won't commit money for children's health.

It's all responses to overwheming hate twisted into the individual justifications for going out and killing a bunch of people. Kids who want to justify their own hate and go out as "notorious" killers who got publicity.

Like l said, l don't have answers so l won't debate this but the simplistic response is to blame the NRA, Republicans, easy access to guns, gun culture, the 2nd amendment, the SCOTUS, blah, blah, blah. Not one gun pulled it's own trigger. Sick kids did and there are a lot more of them out there who just committed quiet suicide, grew out of it, got help, turn to lesser violence, get addicted to drugs, carry lifelong baggage. Kids need help that leaves out hate, leaves out blame, leaves out politics, leaves out gender, leaves out everything but helping kids learn how to cope with life.

Peace out.

Well, I can't help but to agree with you. The Politics forum had deteriorated for sure, and I also accept my part of that. I do kind of miss it though. Probably not for the weak of heart for sure. There certainly seems to be a pretty hard line drawn between different groups in the Country, and I wish we could come a little closer to the middle. I feel like I have given concessions in the gun ownership requirements area. I would go for some kind of expanded background check in order to keep high power rifles out of the hands of youngsters, particularly ones with "problems." I also do not like "constitutional carry" particularly. We certainly won't solve the problems in this forum but I think we can see a little cross section of the problems. Thanks for sharing your thoughts/frustrations.

P. S. - No offense meant, Pete, just disagreement with your statement... lf you don't think LA has a gun culture of it's own, you're not looking. LA alone had 570 reports of shots-fired in just the first 2 months this year. LA has a culture which condones gun violence to gain respect and to resolve simple issues as do most all big cities. It's simply a different gun culture foundation.

I'm talking about suburban people with guns, which should have been obvious.

Nobody I knew out there had a gun or even talked about them. Here, it's the complete opposite.

I just have to say, l have many, many Republican friends across the country - across the board in terms of overall conservative beliefs. In my "old man" years of life, l have never heard one of them utter the words or the initials of the NRA. The NRA takes in a lot of political money from the gun lobby (naturally) and wealthy conservatives trying to weild influence.

I see Dems as mistaking political influence over politicians vs. the overwhelming majority of Republicans who pay little-to-no attention to it. The average Rep may agree with some stances of the NRA but trying to say it has vast influence is missing the point. The right-wing gun culture centers on sport shooting, a sense of protection, military training, overall interest in guns and a growing distrust of government in general.

The NRA is a gun-based boogeyman who l don't necessarily agree with on many issues that is a convenient target in situations like Uvalde just like the left throws out FoxNews and the right plays the George Soros, Steven Colbert, MSNBC/CNN cards.

The problem with mass shootings is far deeper than just easy access and the NRA. ANYONE who mows down other kids suffers from mental problems and these problems are widespread in the high school and post HS age group. My son's HS in CO had a shooter and over 1/2 a dozen suicides. To stop all of this, people MUST STOP PLAYING POLITICAL BS GAMES and start taking some very hard looks at the hatred that is constantly overwhelming them.

They see hate and violence and the political sh*t slinging from both sides - all of us all the way to the POTUS (past and present) are guilty. Kids get on social media and see more hate. They see bullying from classmates, hate from teachers who don't like their work or opinions, online bullying, race blaming, hate in history lessons from wars fought, additional hate from "new" history, hate from BLM, hate of BLM, hate from anarchists, hate of anarchists, hate from Capitol invaders, meme hate online, late night talk show hate, online video hate, online gaming hate, violent video games where killing wins points, endless online hate trolls...... there are SO many more. Let's not forget violence, drugs, rampant crime, out of control housing costs, plummeting buying power, supply shotages, global warming and tensions from Russia and China.

These killings are from induced mental illness and hoplessness, plain and simple. These kids may truly be deranged but they also lack guidance, family support, direction, social fullfillment, social skills and morality. Uvalde was an hispanic kid that killed (l think) all hispanic victims and family. Some killings are race-based, some are revenge-based, some are political and some are pure mystery.

I don't have all the answers and l have surely left out many of my thoughts. What l do know is l'm glad the politics threads are gone because politics has become nothing but hate - those threads included and l accept my share of responsibility - but there are a dozen or more of you still out there who bear some responsibility, too.

It's gotten so everyone blames everyone else for everything. Politicians Our national leaders villify the other party for high crimes and treason knowing full-well their party did the exact same thing. Dems villify Reps for Jan. 6 but ignore Hillary Clinton & the DNC fabricating the entire Russia narrative and possibly committing treason. Reps want abortion banned but won't commit money for children's health.

It's all responses to overwheming hate twisted into the individual justifications for going out and killing a bunch of people. Kids who want to justify their own hate and go out as "notorious" killers who got publicity.

Like l said, l don't have answers so l won't debate this but the simplistic response is to blame the NRA, Republicans, easy access to guns, gun culture, the 2nd amendment, the SCOTUS, blah, blah, blah. Not one gun pulled it's own trigger. Sick kids did and there are a lot more of them out there who just committed quiet suicide, grew out of it, got help, turn to lesser violence, get addicted to drugs, carry lifelong baggage. Kids need help that leaves out hate, leaves out blame, leaves out politics, leaves out gender, leaves out everything but helping kids learn how to cope with life.

Peace out.

That is a great point. I could care less about the NRA but I really enjoy my AR15. It is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of feral hogs in both Oklahoma and Texas. I am planning to take out a few more in 2 weeks. My observation is that all but 2 of these type of mass shooting were done by someone who is under 21. There are a lot of angry kids out there and they get military style training and drills everyday on their Xbox and PS systems.

This is going down a familiar, polarized political path.

Thread closed.