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Are Texas and Oklahoma trying to join the SEC? Officials say

'no comment' on possible discussions

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2021/07/21/NAHT/d68335fb-055b-4f88-80a9-581fbfa0480e-SamOU.JPG?width=1320&height=930&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp

Texas and Oklahoma have been talking with Southeastern Conference officials about leaving the Big 12 and joining the SEC, according to a report published Wednesday in the Houston Chronicle...

Link: https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/football/2021/07/21/texas-oklahoma-officials-evasive-when-asked-possible-discussions-sec/8047054002/?utm_source=oklahoman-News%20Alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news_alerts&utm_term=news_alert&utm_content=OKLAHOMA-OKLAHOMACITY-NLETTER01

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It looks to actually have some traction.

You're talking about a SUPER CONFERENCE, this would be a WHALE...

hard pass... really hope this doesn't come to fruition. i'd rather the big 8 live on through the big 12 and i don't like the idea of 'super conferences' where teams in different divisions rarely play each other. i can tolerate a 12 team conference (awfully convenient, right?), don't like 14 team conferences, and am strongly against the idea of a 16 team conference. i like preserving the ou/osu rivalry. i'm also not crazy about being part of a conference that's associated with the deep south.

Yea, I would bet that this is not a serious thing for multiple reasons.

I'm for it. Better competition, not Texas centric, would likely have the benefit of not so many 11 am home games.

I'm also an OU grad. I can understand if you are affiliated with OSU or one of the other 8 schools you would be against it.

I am for it!
An issue would be the longhorn network. Maybe they would make it the SEC West network and the current SEC network a new SEC East network.

I am for it!
An issue would be the longhorn network. Maybe they would make it the SEC West network and the current SEC network a new SEC East network.

ESPN owns the LN AND SECN. It would not be an issue.

Besides Kansas in hoops, the rest of the Big 12 is pretty lame, especially when it comes to the big revenue sports (football and basketball).

If this is being seriously considered, I trust that Joe Castiglione and Lincoln Riley have already discussed at length and have very good reasons.

Football playoffs are likely to expand to 8-12 teams, which means you don't have to win your conference to advance. If 12, you could easily see multiple SEC teams included.

Also, the move to that conference has been a godsend for Texas A&M. They were near oblivion for a long time and last year finished just one spot out of the 4-team playoff even with that rugged conference schedule.


I suspect Lincoln and Joe know we need to face better conference competition in order to win more national championships.

And they also know it's very hard to recruit players to the Big 12 out of all those football-rich SEC states.

I suspect, like the fans, they are a bit tired of winning the conference every year, usually making the playoffs, then going no farther.


The Big 8/12 has undergone so many changes over the last few decades there isn't much tradition to maintain.

And since we play Texas in Dallas every year, the home schedule has been very boring and that matters if you want people to show up for future games, as they can all sit home and watch for free and have a much better vantage point.


Might be time to get ourselves into a better position for the long haul.

Lots of denials but the Houston Chronicle reported this:


An announcement could come within a couple of weeks concerning the potential addition of UT and OU to the league, the person said, which would give the SEC 16 schools and make it the first of a national super-conference.

I bet OU & Texas will lobby for this alignment:

West Division
OU
Texas
A&M
Mizzou
LSU
Arkansas
Ole Miss
Miss St.


East Division
Bama
Auburn
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
Tennessee
S. Carolina
Vandy

that's a nice little southwest conference reunion with texas, arkansas, and a&m.

i hear a&m is coming out against it... apparently they want to be the only texas team in the sec. i can see how this would water down some of the momentum they've been building... but if this is the real deal, i doubt they have the influence to stop it on their own.

^

A&M has a significantly better program than Texas does now, and the Horns won't schedule them.

This would force them into that game.

that's a nice little southwest conference reunion with texas, arkansas, and a&m.

i hear a&m is coming out against it... apparently they want to be the only texas team in the sec. i can see how this would water down some of the momentum they've been building... but if this is the real deal, i doubt they have the influence to stop it on their own.

Florida has vetoed Florida State or Miami joining the SEC for decades. I would assume A&M has the same power and if so, this is a nothing story.

I doubt one school has veto power over who can join the conference.

And even if so, I don't think A&M would necessarily block Texas.

^

A&M has a significantly better program than Texas does now, and the Horns won't schedule them.

This would force them into that game.

A&M does not want Texas in the SEC at all. There is a group of teams with an agreement to not vote in teams from a state where an SEC team already resides. The SEC already has the Texas market and the Oklahoma market won’t move any needles when it comes to tv contracts. The University of Texas doesn’t want to join the SEC as they think it would water down their academic brand. The Longhorns would have to give up their own network and complete control of their current conference. Doesn’t make a lot of sense for Texas or the SEC. If the rumor was the Big 10 it would be more believable IMO.maybe if the rumor was OU only. Texas to the SEC is not happening.

Florida has vetoed Florida State or Miami joining the SEC for decades. I would assume A&M has the same power and if so, this is a nothing story.

Same reason why Clemson isn’t in the SEC. There has to be a majority vote and there is a majority number of schools that have agreed to protect their territories and no vote any same state schools.

^

You are just speculating as we all are. The college football landscape is rapidly shifting. It wasn't that long ago that nobody could imagine A&M and Mizzou in the SEC, Nebraska in the Big 10 and Colorado in the Pac 12.

Who knows if it will happen but it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility, and it's interesting to think about. Just a few years back the Pac-12 and OU/Texas gave each other a long look.

And there are lots of valid arguments to be made in favor of such a change.

I'm not sure I would want this, but it does make a certain amount of sense.

^

You are just speculating as we all are. The college football landscape is rapidly shifting. It wasn't that long ago that nobody could imagine A&M and Mizzou in the SEC, Nebraska in the Big 10 and Colorado in the Pac 12.

Who knows if it will happen but it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility, and it's interesting to think about. It wasn't that long ago that the Pac-12 and OU/Texas gave each other a long look.

And there are lots of valid arguments to be made in favor of such a change.

I'm not sure I would want this change, but it does make a certain amount of sense.

It makes sense for OU. Doesn’t make a lot of sense for Texas or the SEC.

Unless there is a potential tv contract out there that is so incredibly massive it convinces everyone to go with it. But I don’t see a Texas market that the SEC already has and an Oklahoma market that is pretty tiny bringing in some incredible new tv contract. I very well could be wrong.

TV markets don't matter nearly as much due to the continuous trend towards streaming services.

The Big 12 commissioner said exactly that just last week.

The more recent realignments have been driven by ESPN, and the influence of that network is fading fast.

How sad is it that the link to The Oklahoman article is actually an Austin Statesman article?

How sad is it that the link to The Oklahoman article is actually an Austin Statesman article?

More from the Houston Chronicle, and funny that they credit them.

BTW, these are the academic ratings from US News; the SEC would be a step up from the Big 12:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/academics2021.jpg

TV markets don't matter nearly as much due to the continuous trend towards streaming services.

The Big 12 commissioner said exactly that just last week.

The more recent realignments have been driven by ESPN, and the influence of that network is fading fast.

The tv contract is the only reason why this would get done. If tv contracts matter less going forward there is even less reason for Texas or the SEC to do this. No reason to cut more slices out of a shrinking pie.

The tv contract is the only reason why this would get done. If tv contracts matter less going forward there is even less reason for Texas or the SEC to do this. No reason to cut more slices out of a shrinking pie.

There are tons of good reasons that I've already listed.

It may need to wait a couple more years due to contracts, though.

That's the way it usually works: an announcement is made and then it takes a couple of years to unwind everything.

A friend of mine made a good point...

While Boren was president, he was adamant about taking OSU with us no matter where we went. Probably due to his deep political ties in the state. Lots of talk that that was the reason OU didn't go to the Pac-12 a few years back.

But President Harroz is a very different guy and thinks differently about a lot of issues. I'm sure he is also very concerned about securing the best possible financial long-term deal for the university, especially due to the huge loss of revenue in the last couple of years, and with the prospect of things never completely returning to where they were.

^

A&M has a significantly better program than Texas does now, and the Horns won't schedule them.

This would force them into that game.

Texas A&M has won nothing since joining the SEC. They are essentially the same program that left the Big 12. They had their best season in 20 years last year, but no one really saw them as a serious threat to win their own division, much less something nationally. I don’t think a move to the SEC does anything for OU or Texas long term.

^

A&M finished just outside the playoffs last year and have a great new coach.

That's miles better than they've done in a long time.

They finished #5 and OU #6 even though we won our conference and they didn't even win their division.

Right, but it’s just a blip. A&M was good in the 90s for a bit too. I don’t think we can credit the SEC for A&M having one decent season in their 9th year in the conference.

I just tend to think programs stand more on their own. There’s a lot of SEC schools who have stunk at football for a long time. Changing conferences doesn’t change things much. Missouri is the same story. They were national title contenders before leaving for the SEC. Now, what is Missouri? Basically the same program they’ve been, if not more hopeless.

Jimbo Fisher is a great coach and you shouldn't discount that.

He's done an amazing job in a very short time.

Yes, I agree that he’s a good coach. I think A&M could have attracted him if they’d stayed in the Big 12 though. They’ve always had resources, but they’ve never been a consistently elite program… and they’re still in a tier below Alabama and LSU as programs in their division. A&M can haa as be success, but I just don’t think their position has changed because of their conference affiliation.

A&M was like OSU is to OU: under a big shadow.

Time will tell, but it looks like it was a very smart move for them and they are doing great in recruiting.

A friend of mine made a good point...

While Boren was president, he was adamant about taking OSU with us no matter where we went. Probably due to his deep political ties in the state. Lots of talk that that was the reason OU didn't go to the Pac-12 a few years back.

But President Harroz is a very different guy and thinks differently about a lot of issues. I'm sure he is also very concerned about securing the best possible financial long-term deal for the university, especially due to the huge loss of revenue in the last couple of years, and with the prospect of things never completely returning to where they were.

OSU is not the reason OU didn’t go to the PAC. The PAC was already set to take OU OSU Texas and Texas Tech. Texas decided not to go so everyone stayed. It wasn’t Borens OU or the PACs decision on whether OU went. It was Texas decision. It certainly had nothing to do with staying in the Big 12 because of OSU. OSU had already got the invite to join the PAC.

OSU is not the reason OU didn’t go to the PAC. The PAC was already set to take OU OSU Texas and Texas Tech. Texas decided not to go so everyone stayed. It wasn’t Borens OU or the PACs decision on whether OU went. It was Texas decision. It certainly had nothing to do with staying in the Big 12 because of OSU. OSU had already got the invite to join the PAC.

The PAC refused to accept the Longhorn Network and UT wouldn't go without it.

The PAC refused to accept the Longhorn Network and UT wouldn't go without it.

Yes, the Big 12 offered Texas their own network if they stayed. OU OSU and Tech weren’t involved in any decision. They were all just going to do whatever Texas told them to do. If OU and Texas do go into the SEC it won’t be Harroz decision either. That decision will also come from Austin. If OU wants to go and Texas turns it down then OU isn’t going.

Why not do four 4 team divisions:

A: Mizzou, OU, UT, A&M
B: Arkansas, LSU, Miss St., Ole Miss
C: Auburn, Bama, KY, Vandy
D: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee
(I think that's the right groupings to keep most important SEC rivalries, but Tennessee/KY/Vandy/SC might need to shuffle a bit)

You play all three in your division + one home and one away in each of the other 3 divisions.

Reportedly, there was an old agreement between South Carolina, Florida, Georgia and Kentucky to keep out other schools from their states, which vetoed Louisville, Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech or Clemson joining the SEC. No idea if that still holds, but, Missouri and A&M have already come out against Texas, and they only need two more votes to kill that school's invite.

If this is being seriously considered, I trust that Joe Castiglione and Lincoln Riley have already discussed at length and have very good reasons.

Football playoffs are likely to expand to 8-12 teams, which means you don't have to win your conference to advance. If 12, you could easily see multiple SEC teams included.

Also, the move to that conference has been a godsend for Texas A&M. They were near oblivion for a long time and last year finished just one spot out of the 4-team playoff even with that rugged conference schedule.


I suspect Lincoln and Joe know we need to face better conference competition in order to win more national championships.

And they also know it's very hard to recruit players to the Big 12 out of all those football-rich SEC states.

I suspect, like the fans, they are a bit tired of winning the conference every year, usually making the playoffs, then going no farther.


The Big 8/12 has undergone so many changes over the last few decades there isn't much tradition to maintain.

And since we play Texas in Dallas every year, the home schedule has been very boring and that matters if you want people to show up for future games, as they can all sit home and watch for free and have a much better vantage point.


Might be time to get ourselves into a better position for the long haul.

This perfectly sums up my feelings as well. If OU and UT have the option, it’s a no brainer. I hope we can get a yearly home and home with OSU to maintain the rivalry but even in the absence of that, I’m all for this move or a move to the Big 10 for that matter if it became an option. I’m for anything that preserves the red river shootout and gets us out of the Big 12. Absolutely sick of all the 11 AM kickoffs and terrible home schedule (outside of Bedlam), I was planning to drop my season tickets after this year due to both.

Florida has vetoed Florida State or Miami joining the SEC for decades. I would assume A&M has the same power and if so, this is a nothing story.

aTm just got to the SEC. No way they wield the level of influence that Florida does.

Reportedly, there was an old agreement between South Carolina, Florida, Georgia and Kentucky to keep out other schools from their states, which vetoed Louisville, Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech or Clemson joining the SEC. No idea if that still holds, but, Missouri and A&M have already come out against Texas, and they only need two more votes to kill that school's invite.

That’s what has been said by unnamed sources or insinuated without explicitly stating it by known sources publicly. No way of knowing if that’s just posturing for their fan bases or if they’ll actually vote that way. At any rate, we likely will not ever know who voted for or against. It will either be announced that an invitation will be extended or it won’t…so what ADs or any one else insinuates publicly isn’t indicative of much. If the SEC sees the end result of realignment being 4 conferences of 16 teams, they all agree to this without a second thought. Under that premise it would be insane not to from a financial standpoint. No conference is adding two better teams than OU and UT. With OU and UT, the SEC will always unquestionably be the most powerful conference in college football and it won’t even be close most years.

That’s what has been said by unnamed sources or insinuated without explicitly stating it by known sources publicly. No way of knowing if that’s just posturing for their fan bases or if they’ll actually vote that way. At any rate, we likely will not ever know who voted for or against. It will either be announced that an invitation will be extended or it won’t…so what ADs or any one else insinuates publicly isn’t indicative of much. If the SEC sees the end result of realignment being 4 conferences of 16 teams, they all agree to this without a second thought. Under that premise it would be insane not to from a financial standpoint. No conference is adding two better teams than OU and UT. With OU and UT, the SEC will always unquestionably be the most powerful conference in college football and it won’t even be close most years.

I disagree a bit. I think the point may well be to kill the NCAA entirely and go independent. There may well be other conferences waiting to see what happens.

The SEC also has to ask, if not TX and OU, then who? Especially if we automatically count out the teams mentioned by Swake. There are only so many quality programs left that might possibly realign. And if there's a race to 16 (you know this story has got the other conferences scrambling for parity), they're going to have to think of the big picture. Speaking of parity, if this shake-up falls through, maybe all the teams that the SEC won't let in can join the Big 12 and make it more competitive.

I disagree a bit. I think the point may well be to kill the NCAA entirely and go independent. There may well be other conferences waiting to see what happens.

Good point. Very well could be the case.

Killing the NCAA also brings in basketball money which has long been owned by the NCAA as part of the tournament. That's billions of dollars.

This perfectly sums up my feelings as well. If OU and UT have the option, it’s a no brainer. I hope we can get a yearly home and home with OSU to maintain the rivalry but even in the absence of that, I’m all for this move or a move to the Big 10 for that matter if it became an option. I’m for anything that preserves the red river shootout and gets us out of the Big 12. Absolutely sick of all the 11 AM kickoffs and terrible home schedule (outside of Bedlam), I was planning to drop my season tickets after this year due to both.

+1

Yes, the Big 12 offered Texas their own network if they stayed. OU OSU and Tech weren’t involved in any decision. They were all just going to do whatever Texas told them to do. If OU and Texas do go into the SEC it won’t be Harroz decision either. That decision will also come from Austin. If OU wants to go and Texas turns it down then OU isn’t going.

You keep stating things as fact that simply aren't. You have no idea what is going on behind the scenes.

OU has one of the best athletic departments in the entire country and probably better than anyone in the SEC. The SEC took Missouri and A&M, it's absurd they wouldn't love to have OU.

A&M does not want Texas in the SEC at all. There is a group of teams with an agreement to not vote in teams from a state where an SEC team already resides. The SEC already has the Texas market and the Oklahoma market won’t move any needles when it comes to tv contracts. The University of Texas doesn’t want to join the SEC as they think it would water down their academic brand. The Longhorns would have to give up their own network and complete control of their current conference. Doesn’t make a lot of sense for Texas or the SEC. If the rumor was the Big 10 it would be more believable IMO.maybe if the rumor was OU only. Texas to the SEC is not happening.

almost this entire post is incorrect

The current voting setup is that 11 of the 14 SEC teams have to approve a new school.

One team does not have veto power and it's hard to imagine who would vote against OU or Texas, two of the best athletic programs in the country.

Even if A&M is against one or both, why on earth would the other schools turn down the massive dollars that would flow into their profit-sharing conference?

OSU is not the reason OU didn’t go to the PAC. The PAC was already set to take OU OSU Texas and Texas Tech. Texas decided not to go so everyone stayed. It wasn’t Borens OU or the PACs decision on whether OU went. It was Texas decision. It certainly had nothing to do with staying in the Big 12 because of OSU. OSU had already got the invite to join the PAC.

this is correct .... .OU was in lock step with texas ... OU was not going to the Pac12 if Texas was also not going .. (it would not have been a good long term choice with out texas included )

this is correct .... .OU was in lock step with texas ... OU was not going to the Pac12 if Texas was also not going .. (it would not have been a good long term choice with out texas included )

But it's also true that under Boren, OU wouldn't have gone to the Pac-12 without OSU.

It seems that has likely changed under Harroz.

But it's also true that under Boren, OU wouldn't have gone to the Pac-12 without OSU.

It seems that has likely changed under Harroz.

absolutely correct ..

The current voting setup is that 11 of the 14 SEC teams have to approve a new school.

One team does not have veto power and it's hard to imagine who would vote against OU or Texas, two of the best athletic programs in the country.

Even if A&M is against one or both, why on earth would the other schools turn down the massive dollars that would flow into their profit-sharing conference?

Pete, you and PhiApha are on the same page--any conference would welcome OU & UT; they wouldn't have to think twice about it.

And for both OU and Texas, this would almost certainly mean the end to all those horrible 11AM kickoffs.

The SEC has much more power in positioning for TV times and some of the schools are in the Eastern time zone.

11AM kicks are horrible for the school, town, team, fans, TV and recruiting. And I know Lincoln Riley and Joe Castiglione are both completely sick of them.

Berry Tramel wrote this:


ESPN and Fox indicated no interest in early negotiations for an extension of their Big 12 television contracts. That was a flashing yellow on the road to contentment, especially since the Big 12 in 2019 signed up with ESPN for streaming in lieu of a conference network. When the Big 12 gets around to a new contract for the 2025 season, it will have been last in line among the new deals, potentially meaning the prime television windows will be taken. You know what that means. More 11 a.m. kickoffs.

This is going to have a big ripple effect on collegiate sports, now that it looks like OU and UT are looking elsewhere. It looks like big shakeups all around. This is going to get interesting.

Need another reason to see why this makes sense for OU? Look at this year's home football schedule. It is pathetic. The best game is Iowa State. Now want to see something even worse? Look at next year's home schedule. Those schedules won't sell tickets.

Also, our baseball program is going to get straight up embarrassed in the SEC.

Need another reason to see why this makes sense for OU? Look at this year's home football schedule. It is pathetic. The best game is Iowa State. Now want to see something even worse? Look at next year's home schedule. Those schedules won't sell tickets.

Joe Castiglione knows this better than anyone. Since the Texas game is in Dallas every year, our home schedule is incredibly lame.

Even before the pandemic it was increasingly hard to fill seats. All the games are televised and almost everyone has huge TV's, so why go fry/freeze in the stands? And we are far from done with Covid-19.

I've always had season tickets but will likely let them lapse because it's easy to find tickets for any game if I want to go.

This is going to have a big ripple effect on collegiate sports, now that it looks like OU and UT are looking elsewhere. It looks like big shakeups all around. This is going to get interesting.
I wonder what the over/ under is here? I can’t say I’d complain when it comes to football. Other sports however. I wonder if there are negotiations to stay in the big 12 taking place

Need another reason to see why this makes sense for OU? Look at this year's home football schedule. It is pathetic. The best game is Iowa State. Now want to see something even worse? Look at next year's home schedule. Those schedules won't sell tickets.

Also, our baseball program is going to get straight up embarrassed in the SEC.
Good. If we want to be one of the big boys, let’s get off our ass and do what it takes to compete and win.

^

With baseball it would likely mean the extensive renovations for Mitchell Field would finally be funded and completed.

The biggest issue in the SEC would be the lack of wrestling but OU could still stay in the Big 12 for that, or just schedule as they always have.