View Full Version : OKC City Council Passes Anti-Tobacco/Vaping Ordinance



BBatesokc
02-19-2020, 03:45 AM
News 9 (2/18/2020) OKC City Council Passes Ordinance to Ban Vaping in Public Places (https://www.news9.com/story/41717815/okc-city-council-passes-ordinance-to-ban-vaping-in-public-places)

Headline from News9 is (unshockingly) a bit misleading. The ordinance doesn't just target "vaping", but encompasses all tobacco in public. Along with anything being vaped.

I personally am in favor of this. I hate the smell of cigarette and cigar smoke and find vaping equally off-putting.

BoulderSooner
02-19-2020, 06:45 AM
unless state law changed at some point (I don't think it has) i don't think this is inforceable ..

BBatesokc
02-19-2020, 06:51 AM
unless state law changed at some point (I don't think it has) i don't think this is inforceable ..

Didn't the legislature already address this and decided to allow cities to create their own regulations? Like 2012 or something?

BoulderSooner
02-19-2020, 07:21 AM
Didn't the legislature already address this and decided to allow cities to create their own regulations? Like 2012 or something?

i thought that failed ...

okc and norman were on record back then says they would ban smoking right away when they were allowed


so i am not sure what has changed

bombermwc
02-19-2020, 07:36 AM
I'm all for it. Keep it out of the public placed and keep it in their car/home. We shouldn't all have to suffer through that crap just because they want to. I shouldn't have to deal with second hand smoke or vaping because you want to light it up. Keep it in your own space or keep it out of mine.

BoulderSooner
02-19-2020, 07:53 AM
I'm all for it. Keep it out of the public placed and keep it in their car/home. We shouldn't all have to suffer through that crap just because they want to. I shouldn't have to deal with second hand smoke or vaping because you want to light it up. Keep it in your own space or keep it out of mine.

i very much agree with this .. and i think in bars it is very much a workers rights issue

Pete
02-19-2020, 07:58 AM
I simply can't believe in this day and age -- where tons of other states (and many countries) have already very successfully dealt with this -- that Oklahoma allows smoking in bars and 21+ places.

In fact, the state specifically won't allow cities to ban it on their own.

The lobbying agencies for bars and restaurants swear up and down it will hurt their business but that absolutely has not been the case elsewhere.

This issue has been settled a long time ago but like almost everything else here, we are 20 years behind the times. And that's due to our state legislature, of course.

mkjeeves
02-19-2020, 08:16 AM
I don't typically go to bars much but when I do now as an ex-smoker of many years, I call ahead and ask if they allow smoking. In my limited experience, it's much less frequent to get a full yes answer. The last one was 51st Street Speakeasy and the answer was they allow it in the gameroom upstairs. I went. Did not have any issue with air quality downstairs.

But the odd part, almost always it seems like they interpret the question as coming from a smoker who might not come to the place if they can't smoke, when the opposite is true. I'm not going to a smoking bar. Lungs can't handle it.

Pete
02-19-2020, 08:36 AM
Even in non-smoking places, if there is any outdoor space the smokers take it over.

Most states have banned smoking on patios for this very reason.



And I've said this before, but when California initiated its ban in the 90's, it completely changed behavior. After a short adjustment period, you just didn't see young people smoking any more. And that's because they couldn't get started hanging out in bars, so they never got addicted. Smoking rates went way down as a result.

The state spends millions on anti-smoking ads, mainly due to the enormous cost to the healthcare system. Yet, it allows people to smoke in bars and restaurants and in fact prohibits municipalities from instituting their own bans. It's insane. And of course, Oklahoma has one of the highest smoking rates in the country at over 20% (!!!) of adults.

HangryHippo
02-19-2020, 08:53 AM
When I was in California late last year, people were vaping EVERYWHERE. The s**t is ubiquitous now.

onthestrip
02-19-2020, 09:18 AM
Even in non-smoking places, if there is any outdoor space the smokers take it over.

Most states have banned smoking on patios for this very reason.



And I've said this before, but when California initiated its ban in the 90's, it completely changed behavior. After a short adjustment period, you just didn't see young people smoking any more. And that's because they couldn't get started hanging out in bars, so they never got addicted. Smoking rates went way down as a result.

The state spends millions on anti-smoking ads, mainly due to the enormous cost to the healthcare system. Yet, it allows people to smoke in bars and restaurants and in fact prohibits municipalities from instituting their own bans. It's insane. And of course, Oklahoma has one of the highest smoking rates in the country at over 20% (!!!) of adults.

I have always believed that us allowing smoking in bars and clubs aided our high smoking rates more than any other factor.

Just absurd that we are or were one of only two states (with Tennessee) that prohibited cities from any action on this. I get the "gubmint doesnt need to tell us what ter do" argument but at least let towns make their own decisions.

BoulderSooner
02-19-2020, 09:22 AM
this doesn't change the smoking in bars in any way

jerrywall
02-19-2020, 09:26 AM
Does this affect dedicated businesses like smoke shops/cigar lounges?

Pete
02-19-2020, 09:26 AM
Have you ever met an adult smoker who didn't want to quit? It's a horrible addiction, proven by the fact that so many people continue to smoke even though virtually all of them would like to stop.

The key is to not get started in the first place. And if you can't smoke in bars, that greatly reduces the number of younger people who make it a habit.


I remember when I first moved to L.A. in 1990. I worked with a lot of entertainment companies in Hollywood and at that time the smoking rate was very high on movie lots and certainly in all the Hollywood clubs and bars. Many celebrities smoked (like the entire cast of Friends save David Schwimmer).

When the state effectively banned all public smoking in 1995, the culture completely changed.

Vaping is just the latest loophole which is in the process of being closed.


Good grief, if entire countries can ban smoking where it had been a huge fixture in bars before (Ireland, England, France, Australia) why are we still allowing this in Oklahoma? It's absurd and at a very basic level, there is a massive related healthcare expense.


As a personal note, my mom got hooked as a teenager and spent her entire adult life trying to quit. She died a horrible death due to lung cancer when she was only 56.

GoGators
02-19-2020, 09:31 AM
Don't blame the state legislature. They have much more important things to worry about like displaying "in god we trust" in all state buildings.

David
02-19-2020, 09:32 AM
Vaping out in public has been a mild annoyance of mine for a while. Out in a crowd, and someone just freely starts vaping and then you have to start thinking about upwind/downwind so as not to have to share their air pollution.

Pete
02-19-2020, 09:34 AM
Lots of people sneak-vape inside bars and other indoor places.

jerrywall
02-19-2020, 09:37 AM
Sneak vaping bugs me a lot less (especially if they're using unscented fluids) than the folks sitting around intentionally puffing huge clouds of mango fruity whatever.

Of course, I also want to smack people who wear too much cologne/perfume.

Pete
02-19-2020, 09:38 AM
BTW, smoking cessation is close to being a $20 BILLION industry in the U.S. alone.

It simply defies belief that we still allow smoking in any public place.

BoulderSooner
02-19-2020, 09:40 AM
Does this affect dedicated businesses like smoke shops/cigar lounges?

it doesn't really affect anything it just added MJ to the city ordinces ..

emtefury
02-19-2020, 09:45 AM
Even in non-smoking places, if there is any outdoor space the smokers take it over.

Most states have banned smoking on patios for this very reason.



And I've said this before, but when California initiated its ban in the 90's, it completely changed behavior. After a short adjustment period, you just didn't see young people smoking any more. And that's because they couldn't get started hanging out in bars, so they never got addicted. Smoking rates went way down as a result.

The state spends millions on anti-smoking ads, mainly due to the enormous cost to the healthcare system. Yet, it allows people to smoke in bars and restaurants and in fact prohibits municipalities from instituting their own bans. It's insane. And of course, Oklahoma has one of the highest smoking rates in the country at over 20% (!!!) of adults.

Anecdotal on my part and contributes your don't see young people smoking anymore statement. When I joined the military in the early 2000s alot of military members smoked especially the younger crowd. The smoke pit was always crowded. In the present time, barely anyone smokes. Very few new military members (ages 18-23) smoke.

Pete
02-19-2020, 09:49 AM
^

The military used to issue free cigarettes to military members!

It's how my dad got hooked, although through a ton of effort he finally kicked the habit in his 30's.

As I said, it's a horrible addiction and I have sympathy for anyone who is trying to quit; it's obviously incredibly hard.

jerrywall
02-19-2020, 09:55 AM
As I said, it's a horrible addiction and I have sympathy for anyone who is trying to quit; it's obviously incredibly hard.

I'm sympathetic, but at the same time, we're increasing the availability of and exposure to strong beer and alcohol like crazy, and promoting its use even more. Alcohol is every bit as dangerous if not more, and can in fact kill someone trying to stop (not something that tobacco does). Billions are thrown down the tubes in the addition and recovery industry (somewhere north of $35 Billion a year last I saw).

So from a workers right issue, or a public nuisance, I'm there. But because it encourages smoking or addition? It seems hypocritical.

Pete
02-19-2020, 09:59 AM
^

You are absolutely right.

I also have great sympathy for those with a predisposition to alcoholism and addiction. That's a lifelong battle.

Jersey Boss
02-19-2020, 10:05 AM
it doesn't really affect anything it just added MJ to the city ordinces ..

Exactly. Many are not aware that wherever smoking is allowed in public, so is MMJ. (OAC 310:681-2-11(a).
In other words if smoking tobacco in a bar is legal so is the smoking of MMJ.

BoulderSooner
02-19-2020, 10:19 AM
Exactly. Many are not aware that wherever smoking is allowed in public, so is MMJ. (OAC 310:681-2-11(a).
In other words if smoking tobacco in a bar is legal so is the smoking of MMJ.

i don't believe this is correct MMJ is banned in public city wide ..

cities were/are allowed to regualte MMJ smoking in public

Jersey Boss
02-19-2020, 10:26 AM
i don't believe this is correct MMJ is banned in public city wide ..

cities were/are allowed to regualte MMJ smoking in public

310:681-2-11. Restrictions on Smokable Medical Marijuana and Medical Marijuana Products
(a) Allsmokable,vaporized,vapableande-cigarettemedicalmarijuana and medical marijuana products ingested, smoked, or consumed by a patient license holder is subject to the same restrictions for tobacco under section 1-1521 et. seq. of Title 63 of Oklahoma statutes, commonly referred to as the “Smoking in Public Places and Indoor Workplaces Act.”
(b) Allsmokable,vaporized,vapableande-cigarettemedicalmarijuana and medical marijuana products consumed or smoked by a patient medical marijuana license holder shall not be smoked nor consumed in the presence of a minor under the age of eighteen (18).

Unless the city has the authority to make changes to the Smoking in Public Places Act it does not have that authority.
Does the city have the legal grounds to enforce more stringent laws than the Smoking in Public Places Act?

Libbymin
02-19-2020, 01:15 PM
I simply can't believe in this day and age -- where tons of other states (and many countries) have already very successfully dealt with this -- that Oklahoma allows smoking in bars and 21+ places.

In fact, the state specifically won't allow cities to ban it on their own.

The lobbying agencies for bars and restaurants swear up and down it will hurt their business but that absolutely has not been the case elsewhere.

This issue has been settled a long time ago but like almost everything else here, we are 20 years behind the times. And that's due to our state legislature, of course.

In fact, I think it would actually help most bars in Oklahoma. There are bars in this city that I just don't have an interest in going to anymore simply because I hate coming out smelling like cigarettes and I know a LOT of people are the same way.

On an unrelated note, if you ever go to Japan, their streets are almost completely free of any kind of trash and they don't allow smoking on the streets except in very specifically marked areas, but the restaurants still allow it so it can be very smoky when you eat out. I loved a lot of things about Japan but that definitely was not one of them.

Pete
02-19-2020, 01:20 PM
^

In cities and countries where smoking has been completely banned, they've seen increased business in bars and restaurants.

There is, however, usually a short-term dip for those who had previously allowed smoking.

ctchandler
02-19-2020, 08:13 PM
^

The military used to issue free cigarettes to military members!

It's how my dad got hooked, although through a ton of effort he finally kicked the habit in his 30's.

As I said, it's a horrible addiction and I have sympathy for anyone who is trying to quit; it's obviously incredibly hard.

Pete,
When was your dad in the military? I joined the Navy in 1960 and there were no free cigarettes. One exception was c-rations. There were packs of cigarettes in them but the only folks that got them were in war zones (Viet Nam).
C. T.
p.s. Not taking sides on this, just my personal experience.

bombermwc
02-20-2020, 07:26 AM
I'm sympathetic, but at the same time, we're increasing the availability of and exposure to strong beer and alcohol like crazy, and promoting its use even more. Alcohol is every bit as dangerous if not more, and can in fact kill someone trying to stop (not something that tobacco does). Billions are thrown down the tubes in the addition and recovery industry (somewhere north of $35 Billion a year last I saw).

So from a workers right issue, or a public nuisance, I'm there. But because it encourages smoking or addition? It seems hypocritical.

The difference with alcohol is that if you're consuming it at the next table over, it doesn't impact me. With smoking, i can't go into a bar or be around you when you're smoking without dealing with the affects of second hand smoke (and to be frank, the stank you reek). I shouldn't have to be exposed to carcinogens because you have an addiction. Ever looked at those ceiling tiles in bars? That brown sticky tar crap is what's in your lungs and i dont want it in mine.

We get equipment back from employees that are smokers and we just have to throw it away because of the sticky and the smell. It's disgusting.

I'd love to be able to go to a bar and not come out smelling like butt. Casinos are just as bad. You can't walk in somewhere without being exposed. As someone else said, this is a worker's right too. We might spend an hour or two somewhere, but the staff works in bars/casinos/etc for hours every day.

You ask about a cigar bar....buy em there, smoke em at home.

jerrywall
02-20-2020, 07:58 AM
The difference with alcohol is that if you're consuming it at the next table over, it doesn't impact me. With smoking, i can't go into a bar or be around you when you're smoking without dealing with the affects of second hand smoke (and to be frank, the stank you reek). I shouldn't have to be exposed to carcinogens because you have an addiction. Ever looked at those ceiling tiles in bars? That brown sticky tar crap is what's in your lungs and i dont want it in mine.

We get equipment back from employees that are smokers and we just have to throw it away because of the sticky and the smell. It's disgusting.

I'd love to be able to go to a bar and not come out smelling like butt. Casinos are just as bad. You can't walk in somewhere without being exposed. As someone else said, this is a worker's right too. We might spend an hour or two somewhere, but the staff works in bars/casinos/etc for hours every day.

You ask about a cigar bar....buy em there, smoke em at home.

Not the issue I was discussing, since I mentioned the second hand smoke issue, so not sure what your point is.

As for the cigar bar or lounge... why the heck should it matter to anyone else? If I choose to hang out in the back room of the tobacco exchange on Memorial with a few friends and associates smoking cigars, we're all adults, and we all chose to be there. We all need our third spaces, and as a non drinker, this is one of my VERY FEW alternatives.

I'm sure things like this will convert into some sort of "private" club with a nominal membership fee, until someone bitches and sues those out of existence too.

Pete
02-20-2020, 08:14 AM
^

It's a workplace issue.

People have to work in those businesses and yes, it is a free country, but you could say the same thing about coal mines and other hazardous workplaces which are heavily regulated to safeguard the people who work there.

catch22
02-20-2020, 08:22 AM
Perhaps I am an outlier but I don't mind cigarette smoke at all, in fact in limited doses I actually enjoy the smell. I have never even touched a cigarette in my life much less ever even smoked one.

Thomas Vu
02-20-2020, 01:56 PM
In fact, I think it would actually help most bars in Oklahoma. There are bars in this city that I just don't have an interest in going to anymore simply because I hate coming out smelling like cigarettes and I know a LOT of people are the same way.

On an unrelated note, if you ever go to Japan, their streets are almost completely free of any kind of trash and they don't allow smoking on the streets except in very specifically marked areas, but the restaurants still allow it so it can be very smoky when you eat out. I loved a lot of things about Japan but that definitely was not one of them.

In japan you also have marlboro reps handing out free packs. Having said that, I still miss Japan.

jerrywall
02-20-2020, 03:42 PM
In japan you also have marlboro reps handing out free packs. Having said that, I still miss Japan.

It's been a while since I've seen it, but I used to see the same thing here... especially at bike nights and such.

Pete
02-20-2020, 03:45 PM
^

Getting and keeping people addicted to your product is huge business.

bombermwc
02-21-2020, 07:07 AM
^

It's a workplace issue.

People have to work in those businesses and yes, it is a free country, but you could say the same thing about coal mines and other hazardous workplaces which are heavily regulated to safeguard the people who work there.

Exactly. The staff shouldn't' have to put up with it just to work there. And don't start on "they don't have to work there" because that's extremely weak. Maybe that's true for a cigar bar in OKC, but if you're a bar or casino out in small town Oklahoma, that is probably one of the few available jobs. And the manager level at a casino is one of the very few better paying jobs in those areas. The trade-off is the disgusting sticky/smokeridden filth of the air they work in and it doesn't matter how good the air handling is, it's still crap. And ever notice how you have to walk through the gaming floor to get to ANYTHING at a casino? Yeah, that's on purpose and you can't avoid it.

Plutonic Panda
02-23-2020, 05:18 PM
I can see the reasoning behind prohibiting smoking on public grounds and city parks but not private businesses.

If a place allows smoking don’t work or go there. Why is that so hard? I am not a smoker myself but I don’t mind being around it.

bombermwc
02-24-2020, 06:57 AM
I can see the reasoning behind prohibiting smoking on public grounds and city parks but not private businesses.

If a place allows smoking don’t work or go there. Why is that so hard? I am not a smoker myself but I don’t mind being around it.

I guess you missed that last part about why "dont work there" isn't a good reason? Don't go there is easy to do as a consumer....in most cases. But if i want to go to a bar with my friends and have a drink, oh well i guess i have to get cancer that as part of it. What a price to pay for a beer. Same goes if i want to go have an evening with friends at a casino. Personally, i do choose not to do either partially BECAUSE of the smoke. It was also a contributing factor in me changing jobs as casinos were clients and I had zero desire to go there. I didn't want to be in the smoke or come out smelling like butt.

Sometimes, public health outweighs what the private business is able to do. We've already made that decision in the U.S. and that it's ok for the government to regulate those things. This is just continuing that regulation to a more common item. We can drink alcohol, and we regulate it and put laws around it for the greater public good (no drunk driving). Preventing second hand smoke is simply a continuation of that same concept to protect the non-partakers of having to directly deal with it as much as is reasonably possible.

Not im sure someone will come up with ridiculously specific case of where the comparison falls apart or doesn't cover X or something. But the intent is clearly spelled out there and those arguments typically fall of deaf ears when the legislators make their votes.

EBAH
02-24-2020, 09:22 AM
I'm a cigarette smoker and occaisional marijuana smoker and I HATE smoking inside of bars and restaurants and would love for it to be outlawed. It's 2020 folks, and we know exactly how awful it is now and it's just a stupid thing to force workers and other patrons to put up with it. Not to mention, I have no problem smoking outside and I love the added incentive for bars and restaurants to build more outdoor spaces.

Now, I think that the "Smoking medical marijuana is treated the same as smoking cigarettes in public" part of our states law. It's honestly one of the most progressive parts of Oklahoma's law. It isn't a shameful act, at least not any more than smoking cigarettes. It's also changed how bars can be experience by various friends of mine that are not drinkers but do smoke weed. It's a nice thing to be able to smoke pot at bars that allow smoking and feel fine about it. It's not even allowed that way in Colorado or California and it's a pretty unique positive for the nightlife community.