View Full Version : Could Oklahoma support a second major league franchise?



Laramie
12-20-2019, 11:36 PM
https://moneyinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Tulsa-skyline-750x402.jpg
Demographics: Metropolitan Statistical Population 993,797, Urban 400,669

Fortune 500 companies (3) & 500-1,000 (20):

237. ONEOK
299. NGL Energy Partners
370. Williams Companies


Major cities within 150 mile radius:
Oklahoma City 101 miles MSA - Urban 649,021
Wichita 133 miles MSA 644,888 Urban 389,255
Fort Smith, AR-OK 101 miles MSA 282,318 Urban 86,209

https://tulsaoilers.com/wp-content/uploads/unnamed-8.jpg






Broke ground August 31, 2005
Opened August 30, 2008
Construction cost: $196 Million
Hockey: 17,096

Tulsa, BOK Center Arena Tour


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIM9400umgg

Laramie
12-21-2019, 12:08 AM
Just for the record:

Ice hockey seating capacity:


BOK Center Arena, Tulsa - 17,096
Chesapeake Energy Arena, Oklahoma City - 18,036/ after remodel 15,152

jdizzle
12-21-2019, 01:46 AM
One would most likely come to OKC before Tulsa, I think. Soccer would be the only sport to expand, though.

RodH
12-21-2019, 05:32 AM
Don't forget the Fayetteville and Joplin metro area are also within 150 miles.

Dob Hooligan
12-22-2019, 08:43 AM
I would argue that Oklahoma already has two major league franchises, and the Thunder is the second. OU football is major league by any measure.

Laramie
12-22-2019, 11:26 AM
I would argue that Oklahoma already has two major league franchises, and the Thunder is the second. OU football is major league by any measure.

Can't argue with that statement.

The time is long overdue to put this sibling rivalry to bed in the spirit of a united Oklahoma. Tulsa's growth has not seen the levels of moderate growth we have in our city. Oklahoma's two MSAs areas are the current bulk of the state's growth.

The corporate support may be marginal; however it would give Oklahomans who want to support the NHL as well as the NBA that option.

OKC in 1997 at 1.1 million was slightly larger than Tulsa's 1 million today when we went on our quest to bring a major league franchise to OKC. We hoped for the NHL; instead we landed the NBA. I know there are cities seeking an NHL franchise; OKC did prove to the NHL that when you passed on us, we saw a potential gain.

At 17,096, the BOK Center Arena could sell out an NHL franchise comparable to the support you see with The Peake in OKC. Being in the company of the NHL would be an extra feather (quality of life) in Tulsa's cap whether you called the team Tulsa or Oklahoma with an appropriate nick name.

Would OKC fans support the NHL in Tulsa, like Tulsans support the NBA in OKC; let's not forget:


Don't forget the Fayetteville and Joplin metro area are also within 150 miles. in addition to OKC, Wichita & Fort Smith.

floyd the barber
12-22-2019, 02:30 PM
I just do not see the NHL being successful in Oklahoma for a few reasons.

1. The NHL, as a league, is far below the NFL and NBA in national popularity. Bigger metropolitans have struggled supporting a hockey team.
2. The Tulsa Oilers are already a team and they have a small following. I cannot imagine much more support for an NHL team.
2. The Thunder's season coincides with the NHL season. I would imagine more people on average would spend their disposable income on Thunder games.

Just my opinion of course.

Laramie
12-22-2019, 04:50 PM
Tulsa pictorial:

https://gamboool.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/The-River-Spirit-is-the-biggetst-casino-in-Tulsa.jpg
River Spirit Casino Tulsa. River Spirit is not only like a real Las Vegas casino, itís larger than most Las Vegas Casinos.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YLhDBzgZlFI/THp_KKNfCHI/AAAAAAAAA4w/twsPr8Pr4os/s1600/Tulsa+Aquarium+064.JPG

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/39/b39674a2-9622-5973-9aba-e6486780acfe/576c24d3eb329.image.jpg?resize=1200,740

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/f2/cf286089-b12d-545f-89ed-ebc7f68ab592/55831cf2608ea.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C729



https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/08/12/arts/12Tulsa1/merlin_141878409_3fda74dc-d15e-4e1e-a3f2-4ab96a9f6b3f-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale

Dob Hooligan
12-23-2019, 05:48 AM
I haven’t paid much attention since Seattle got awarded the latest NHL franchise last year, but, there are a handful of cities clamoring to get in that are much farther along in their efforts than Tulsa IMO.

Houston

Toronto (a second franchise)

Quebec City

Louisville

The league will be at 32 with Seattle, so it appears relocation is more likely than expansion. There is strong political resistance to any more teams leaving Canada, which takes small markets Edmonton, Calgary and Winnipeg out of the pool.

SEMIweather
12-23-2019, 09:08 AM
Would love to see Quebec City get a team back.

Jersey Boss
12-23-2019, 10:28 AM
Go 'diques!

chuck5815
12-23-2019, 10:49 AM
I just don't see folks showing up in meaningful numbers to support pro soccer or hockey. Pro football or baseball, maybe, but neither league is expanding anytime soon. I'd rather see the chamber work on adding some BLC employers that have no connection to O&G.

Laramie
12-23-2019, 12:29 PM
Thunder aren't keen on OKC getting an ECHL minor league franchise let alone an NHL or MLS franchise in Tulsa unless the Thunder had an ownership interest would you see support.

Doubt if Toronto gets a 2nd NHL franchise unless it's in neighboring Hamilton.

Raleigh-Cary is the 2nd smallest U.S. NHL market behind Buffalo, had an MSA pop., of 804,139 when they relocated the NHL Hartford Whalers in 1997--won Stanley Cup in 2006.

The NHL is not on par with the NBA:

In all honesty, the more that I research this; the less optimistic about Tulsa's readiness--maybe 2030.

Which goes back to the question--was OKC a hockey town or a Blazer town?


NHL Attendance: http://www.espn.com/nhl/attendance
NBA Attendance: http://www.espn.com/nba/attendance
ECHL Attendance: http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph_season.php?lid=ECHL2004&sid=2019


An NBA franchise in OKC has heighten our city's popularity as well as our quality of life.

SEMIweather
12-23-2019, 02:06 PM
The Raleigh MSA is not huge, but if you add in the Durham MSA it gets fairly close to two million people. That whole area is booming as well and is probably on its way to becoming the next Austin.

amocore
12-23-2019, 02:45 PM
I think the Hockey train has left the station for OKC. We had a good CHL (now merged in the ECHL) team then a great performing AHL team, which is one of the best league; and it both case the team folded or left.

Maybe Tulsa can support one instead of their lilttle ECHL one.

After, the only think I can think of is soccer but the MLS product is not appealing right now.

Mr. Blue Sky
12-23-2019, 03:06 PM
I think a lot of people don’t realize how big the Triangle really is.
It is a major metropolitan area.

https://i.imgur.com/dxNfP5F.jpg

Laramie
12-23-2019, 08:58 PM
Not trying to derail this thread...

Raleigh is on track right behind Austin; its growth rate is nearly twice that of OKC:


41 Oklahoma City, OK MSA 1,396,445 +11.45%
42 Raleigh-Cary, NC MSA 1,362,540 +20.53%

NBA Oklahoma City 18,203 - 100.0 - 18,203 - Peake Cost: $89 million
NHL Raleigh 15,978 - 85.5 - PNC Cost: $158 million

Now if Raleigh had an NBA franchise you would see better attendance; comparable the Thunder's.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7294/9131565216_a9ce0e1e9f_b.jpg

Two capital cities with impressive skylines.
https://jjraiaphoto.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/raleigh-skyline-at-dusk-2-3-15.jpg

floyd the barber
12-23-2019, 09:25 PM
Now if Raleigh had an NBA franchise you would see better attendance; comparable to the Thunder's

I am not so sure.

Raleigh has the Tar-Heels and they are big time. I think the situation is comparable as to why the NFL wouldn't work in Oklahoma; the college market has respectable following.

Mr. Blue Sky
12-23-2019, 10:27 PM
I am not so sure.

Raleigh has the Tar-Heels and they are big time. I think the situation is comparable as to why the NFL wouldn't work in Oklahoma; the college market has respectable following.

You are exactly right. They are as crazy about college basketball as we are about college football. The Tar Heels and their cross town rival - Duke, just 20 minutes away. Both big-time collegiate programs. Both inside the triangle. Plus, NBA fans can get their fix two and a half hours away in Charlotte.

sorry for the derail. I’m not sure I was the first. But I kept it going. Sorry, Laramie.

Laramie
12-24-2019, 01:18 AM
Good perspective on the impact of collegiate basketball in the Triangle. Didn't think of it like the impact OU football has on the OKC area that collegiate basketball has on Raleigh--does make sense.

Oh well, there aren't any pure conversation threads--it's good to get off track occasionally--we all learn some things that we don't see because we all observe from different lenses.

Back to the NHL in Tulsa...

Been reading about numerous projects on the Tulsa Now forum; they're building many new projects in T-town; some are mentioned by Swake on OKCTalk Tulsa development thread.

Again, The Gathering Place, Oklahoma Aquarium, River Spirit Casino, Hard Rock Hotel & Casino are impressive attractions. The Tulsa Zoo is unveiling some new exhibits, Southern Hill Country Club, Gilcrease & Philbrook Museums & Riverwalk Crossing (Jenks).

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/88/e3/85/88e385e747ffa38d2837f5026e2cbcee.jpg
Golden Driller, at 76 ft., is 20 ft taller than Big Tex.

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/f0/6b/12/f06b12bb10124d29963fb3b55594ff13.jpg
Incredible Art Deco, Boston Avenue Methodist Church.

SEMIweather
12-24-2019, 04:20 AM
I think the Tulsa MSA's fairly stagnant growth at the moment makes the possibility of landing a major league team highly unlikely.

I am interested to see how the Roughnecks (now FC Tulsa) re-brand goes, I think there is definitely a chance that they pass the Energy and become the premier USL club in Oklahoma, especially if their new ownership group is intent on getting them out of OneOK, and building a new soccer-specific stadium in an interesting part of town.