i understand that "important" people visit this site on occasion. well this is for you. there are things in this city that need great improvement, even vast improvement. i hope people from this site will give you thought on what needs to be enhanced or overhauled in this great city. if it be what we could do to slow urban sprawl, build new parks, urban development or whatever. we voted you in and we would like to see some things accomplished, not that there have not been any improvements, but something needs to be done on what we are going to give you.
i will start with two issues that i have. i drive the part of meridian that is nearest the airport every day to go to work. i have noticed that it is horrible. sure the airport is what visitors first see, but then they are shuttled to meridian where all the hotels are located. could we beautify this area? its so ugly. we could also put a huge arching sign that goes over the street, right before you hit the hotels, that says " welcome to oklahoma city". and make it elegant. the street itself is in terrible need of repairs. you need to redo it; not repatch it. these visitors should think they are driving on a sheet of glass. it should be that smooth. just these simple improvements would give a great impression after they come from the airport.
ive talked about the condition of meridian lets talk about the rest of our roads. the roads are horrible in the city, for that matter the state, could we do something about that? you all drive these streets too. this isnt about the potholes for me. i really dont see that many. what drives me insane are the waves in these streets. do you know what i mean? for example nw 50th & portland and reno & classen. these intersections have "waves" when you drive across them you bobble around. i HATE the waves in the streets. ive never been to a city and had to ride the waves to get around like i do here. one more thing about the streets that drives me insane. when you build a road and part of it is an overpass or bridge could it be a smooth transition from the road to the bridge? example: the interstates. when you are driving on one of these and come to the overpass or bridge you pop like six inches up and when you are done you slam another six inches back onto the road. i hope i am explaining this well enough. just one smooth transition, it can be done go to texas. there are other things i could rant about but i will save this for everyone else. in the end i hope the important people take this to heart and do something.

Good point. The western side of Oklahoma City makes Amarillo or Wichita seem attractive. Ugly. And of course, the drive in from the airport is absolutely hideous.

Actually, I hear very uncensored, unadulterated commentary from visitors to OKC all the time. It's a function of the industry I work in. Here are sample comments:

Why can I only drink 3.2 beer? (heard this tonight at Bricktown Live, the poseur music venue).

Is there anywhere to shop in walking distance? (I've heard this literally dozens of times from tourists. Sorry, folks, the Laughing Fish ain't cutting it.)

Is there any public transportation? (Enough said.)

Where can we go where the "hip scene" is? (Sorry, Toby Keith's Roadhouse and Bass Pro don't fit the bill. Nor Spaghetti Warehouse. Nor Chelino's. Nor the ridiculous Skyy Bar or "Pure".

Face it. It's nice to see people walking around in Bricktown, but there are only a couple of places there you would recommend someone from another city to visit.

Today I was thinking about what Oklahoma City is. It's the largest concentration of people who "don't get it" that I've ever seen.

The odd thing is that there are people here who "get it" in spades, but they don't have the money, power or good ol' boy connections to make things happen, for the most part. The only exceptions to that include the Flaming Lips and whatever caused us to get that great Art Museum and Art Film Theatre (that is the coolest thing that has happened in this town in the last decade at least).

Cover bands still seem to dominate the landscape here. David Box is viewed as if he's OKC's version of Phil Graham (a real laugher).

And yet, there are serious artists here and people who have sophisticated tastes and interests, and open minds, but they are swimming against the tide here. The Istooks and "family values" (and I say that with great irony) crowd and Humphries and "law and order" crowd, and in-your-face fundamentalist religious cult seems to monopolize the conversation.

To get an idea, watch Kelly Ogle's "My Two Cents" any day of the week. This simpleminded pablum is de riguer in OKC. What's weird is that OKC residents seem to be proud of crap like this. It's a self-defeating mentality.

This Web site is one of the greatest things to happen here in my lifetime.

Don't get the wrong idea. I'm not negative. I'm very Pro-MAPS, Pro-MAPS for Kids, pro just about every thing that has happened here in the last ten years, and I'm proud of the city for doing what it has done, but there is so much more that needs to be done before this city rises above the level of "pretty good place to attend a horse show" it's not even funny.

I sometimes wonder if the city power brokers can get over their knee-jerk conservatism to allow a real city to develop. The reason we are where we are is because people who live here view this city as second rate and feel that "I like it just the way it is."

Nothing wrong with that, but I sense that people here visualize OKC as a serious world city someday.

It could happen.

But a bunch of back-slapping false positivism won't get us there. We need to demand that this city join the 21st Century and offer solutions for getting there.

Not a big fan of Mick, but he seems to get it more than Humphries did, God Bless.

Patrick, thank you for providing us this wonderful gift.

Deleted for the dreaded double post.

I agree, there seems to be a groupthink psychology in the city that tolerates mediocre work, poor community appearance and other OKC characteristics as "just the way it is". Why do stricter landscaping codes have to be limited to suburbs like Edmond? Nobody wants to offend anybody who is doing something in the city. This is exemplified by the fact that all the "Best of" lists published in the city are popularity contests and not based on expert opinion. Maybe it will take this "major league" status as a wake-up call to stop this "we'll take anything" mentality.

I've thought that Meridian and the Furniture District along Reno could get some enhancement money through a business improvement district (BID) or some kind of association where there is a common area maintenance fee. The association could also provide funds for common marketing. If Meridian truly is the "Hospitality District," then it deserves an effort to beautify it.

BTW, Carolyn Hill was the force that brought the Art Museum to downtown. She was a manager of art galleries in NYC and when she took over as executive director, was adamant about siting the museum at the former Centre theatre next to City Hall.

While I agree that a majority in the city "don't get it", a new generation that has grown with MAPS will expect more. This gives me hope. We'll just have to give small-town thinkers like Kelly Ogle time to die off or get out of the way. That seems to be a harsh sentiment, but that's what I've been told every time I propose a new idea.

Where can we go where the "hip scene" is? (Sorry, Toby Keith's Roadhouse and Bass Pro don't fit the bill. Nor Spaghetti Warehouse. Nor Chelino's. Nor the ridiculous Skyy Bar or "Pure".

Lots of places, have you tried the OKC Museum of Art, the downtown library, Untitled {Artspace}, Deep Deuce Grill, the Classen will be another one soon, Paseo, the Triangle District will be well under way as well as the river, the Purple Bar, LIT, IAO, events at TAP, Java Dave's, Cocktail's on the Skyline, a new NBA team, Midtown is thriving again, and there is plenty of other places with more on the way.

The thing is we aren't thankful enough and boast about what we do have, all we promote is "Bricktown" and not enough emphasis on other districts. We need to stop complaining and either open your own "hip" place or do everything you can to attract more. The problem has always been not enough people brag about what we do have therefore hip crowds never want to come here. If we get people here and get them to spend their money, then we will progress at a faster pace. Don't point out all our problems every city will always have their problems.


While I agree that a majority in the city "don't get it", a new generation that has grown with MAPS will expect more. This gives me hope. We'll just have to give small-town thinkers like Kelly Ogle time to die off or get out of the way. That seems to be a harsh sentiment, but that's what I've been told every time I propose a new idea.


Again, I disagree with this statement. Most people today now do get it. I'm assuming you probably don't get some changes that have taken place or that are being implemented. You say you are a community leader, I'm curious in what aspect and how involved in the community and changing it are you. This is not meant to be harsh in any way, just real. Most people who complain are rarely involved. I challenge each of you reading this post to read my guest column on tomorrows downtown guy. The internet, MAPS, MAPS for Kids and alot of other changes will definetely change the expectations and mentalities of the up and coming generation. The city is relying heavily on my generation and the Alliance of Emerging Professionals as well as a few other organizations to help shape this cities future. Again, CHANGES TAKE TIME and you must run the course of the race. In the past, a lot of Oklahomans gave up, quit, and headed for greener pastures in envy instead of making their own pasture green.

Let us not forget, a few years ago we almost didnt have any of these places. Change doesn't come over night. Especially when you talk about changing 1 million people's mentality and their culture. I think this city has come along way in the last 5-10 years and I'm only 25. I agree, the media in general, not just Kelly Ogle, is our biggest hindrance, they are not confident and brave enough to dig up the facts and show both sides enough. The media shapes our citizens mentality more than anything ! Win over the media in this town and progress will be made. In a few years, mark my words, OKC will be the next hip city like "Austin, Portland, and Seattle" were just a few years prior.

A Library and Java Daves? Hip?

Is that a joke?

Here's some answers for them


Why can I only drink 3.2 beer?

It's a product of prohibition, where 3.2 beer was designated as non-intoxicating (and still is). You can also explain to them that most domestic beers don't get much higher than 3.2 in the first place (especially your "light" beers) and then tell them to order an import, which is often served at full strength in bars (many do not make 3.2 beer). If they're from California then ask them why you can't buy grain alcohol there when you can here... Just kidding. :)


Is there anywhere to shop in walking distance?

Yes, but you have to drive to within walking distance. :)

This is actually a very bad problem, and isn't going to change soon.


Is there any public transportation?

Like many cities, yes, but you don't want to use it as it is not timely and inconvenient.


Where can we go where the "hip scene" is?

Metro helped, but I can ad some. VZDs and Galileo's for music and hanging out on the patio (Galileo, that is), Cafe Nova, Deep Fork, and Bin 73 for the shee-shee yuppie crowd (and Street Car can be added to that now). The Hi-Lo for speak easy dirt bar chic. And to really scrape the bottom of the hip dirt bar barrel, Red Rooster and Edna's.


Cover bands still seem to dominate the landscape here.

Not quite. Go to the Hi-Lo on Tuesday nights. VZDs on the weekend. Go see Little League Hero, 20 Minutes to Vegas, Basement Dynasty, 40 Minutes of Hell, Fellowship Students, and really at least a dozen or so good ones. The fact is that in just about every market, and even the big ones, cover bands make all the money and local bands have small insular followings. Really what happens is that a small group of people go to see a band all the time, they put out a great record, tour, come back and they're suddenly the **** and everyone has always liked them. This happenes in LA and NY, just as it does here.


David Box is viewed as if he's OKC's version of Phil Graham (a real laugher).

David Box is actually not viewed this way. He's simply the only guy out there doing it, sometimes. I think the market can use someone to fill in where Box and DCF miss. Are you in promotion?


And yet, there are serious artists here and people who have sophisticated tastes and interests, and open minds, but they are swimming against the tide here.

The turth is, these people are swimming against the tide almost everywhere. The truth is that the art scene is pretty healthy. There is a small pond factor to all of this, but there are very good art events (Girlie Show and Momentum), that draw 1000+. That's over 1000 people to check out the local art scene in Oklahoma and these events get bigger every year. That's pretty good. Those events are actually better than many events I've been to in major markets. Some great talent, too.


The only exceptions to that include the Flaming Lips

I love the Lips and Wayne is a great guy, but let's be honest, the Lips really aren't and haven't been a part of the local scene for quite some time. Wayne lives here and Steve Drozd I think is moving back, but it's not like he or they have really been on the ground shaping the scene. They're more like ambassadors to OKC and really just an inspriation for anyone who sits around and says, "this place sucks, when is it going to get better for me". They just did what they're good at (or really, bad at, and then got good) and Wayne stuck around. I don't fault them for that. They just kind of do their own thing and do it very well. They're actually a good example of a band who goes off and has success and then comes back to large numbers of fans. In their case, this is true for America really, not just Oklahoma.

But as far as working to change Oklahoma, I don't see the lips really trying to do. I'm not even sure if they want it to.


To get an idea, watch Kelly Ogle's "My Two Cents" any day of the week.

Screw that. The guy is an idiot. Instead, I say find these areas of interest and "hipness" of OKC that you do like and support them. That aspect will grow through support faster than just trying to eliminate the negative aspects.


The reason we are where we are is because people who live here view this city as second rate

I think you just gave them a handful of reasons to think that.

I know what you're saying and I feel your overall frustrations. but the reality is that it is changing. That spark has lit the fire. When you have the chance to be the ambassador for the city, show them the good things and there are many things. It's funny that you say how much visitors complain to you about OKC, yet I have friends and family come in from Houston, SF, Chicago, and Los Angeles, who leave with a much more positive impression of OKC than most of the locals have.

I guess what I am saying is that I have all the same complaints as you and will complain about those things right along with you, but most of those things do now have something that counters it. I think that supporting those things with more vigor will cause the city to change faster and in a more positive manner than just trying to eliminate the bad things that, frankly, are really a staple of Americana and exist everywhere. They just get overshadowed better in some of the bigger markets.

Metro and BDP,

Thank you both for the excellent commentaries.

Let it be known that I am well aware of all of the answers you provided. I'm a regular at the Paseo, I live downtown, I've patronized the Hi-Lo on Tuesday night.

I've been making the arguments you made for about 15 years now, so I'm well aware of all the talking points. You don't need to sell me. I live here and know about all of those underground, insider things.

Here's the rub: when people visit OKC they are directed to Bricktown. They are told this is a hip entertainment district. Then, if they're visiting any time other than a Thursday through Sunday, they discover it's not quite the mecca they've been promised.

A lot of people who visit here don't have cars; they stay at downtown hotels. They anticipate having all of these things right outside their doors.

There's nothing wrong with trumpeting our successes, and feeling some honest pride for how far the city has come, but it's much worse IMO, to ignore the problems. That's why I love this site. It's where we can discuss them and get them in the public sphere.

I thought Mick's comments in today's paper about wireless were very encouraging, BTW.

That's true, guru, but I think that rings true in so many places. If you stick to the tourist brochures, it usually is less than impressive.

I think what we need is a "beyond bricktown" campaign that highlights the character and attractions of the city outside of downtown. It should focus on Western, the historic neighborhoods, the Asian District, and then maybe throw in some other nuggets scattered about, like Blue 7, Electro, Cheever's, etc.

Maybe a website is in order.....

Here's the rub: when people visit OKC they are directed to Bricktown. They are told this is a hip entertainment district. Then, if they're visiting any time other than a Thursday through Sunday, they discover it's not quite the mecca they've been promised.

A lot of people who visit here don't have cars; they stay at downtown hotels. They anticipate having all of these things right outside their doors.

There's nothing wrong with trumpeting our successes, and feeling some honest pride for how far the city has come, but it's much worse IMO, to ignore the problems. That's why I love this site. It's where we can discuss them and get them in the public sphere.

I thought Mick's comments in today's paper about wireless were very encouraging, BTW.


I couldnt agree more, hence my original comment
The thing is we aren't thankful enough and boast about what we do have, all we promote is "Bricktown" and not enough emphasis on other districts.

The following is a message we need to send to city leaders, Mick Cornett, Dave Lopez, Roy Williams, Larry Nichols, Luke Corbett, Tom Ward, Aubrey McClendon, who are all by the way excellent progressionaries. We also need to remember ourselves to promote all districts to provide uniqueness and cohesiveness.


I think what we need is a "beyond bricktown" campaign that highlights the character and attractions of the city outside of downtown. It should focus on Western, the historic neighborhoods, the Asian District, and then maybe throw in some other nuggets scattered about, like Blue 7, Electro, Cheever's, etc.

Again, I disagree with this statement. Most people today now do get it. I'm assuming you probably don't get some changes that have taken place or that are being implemented. You say you are a community leader, I'm curious in what aspect and how involved in the community and changing it are you. This is not meant to be harsh in any way, just real. Most people who complain are rarely involved. I challenge each of you reading this post to read my guest column on tomorrows downtown guy. The internet, MAPS, MAPS for Kids and alot of other changes will definetely change the expectations and mentalities of the up and coming generation. The city is relying heavily on my generation and the Alliance of Emerging Professionals as well as a few other organizations to help shape this cities future. Again, CHANGES TAKE TIME and you must run the course of the race. In the past, a lot of Oklahomans gave up, quit, and headed for greener pastures in envy instead of making their own pasture green.

The recent downtown housing study found that 67% visit downtown once a month or less. This is probably a drastic improvement from years past, but it shows you where we're coming from. This tells me this is population that as a whole doesn't get it. When universal heroes are limited to football coaches, this tells me the population doesn't get it. When it's known that a third of the state's population hasn't travelled out of state, this tells me that most do not get it. When the most famous local writers still working are sports columnists, this tells me the population as a whole doesn't get it. When most of the city's restaurants are chains, this tells me the population doesn't get it.

I never said I was a community leader. I haven't been back in the state long enough to get something going. But I can say I was one of the people who led a Gold Dome rally back in 2001. I wrote an Oklahoman editorial pushing for support of the city's creative class, and participated in forum events with your AEP president Joshua Fahrenbruck. I agree that those who complain but don't do anything about it are useless. And I have done my share to promote local events on this board. I know what's going on, and it's terrific what's developed over the past few years -- an arts scene at the OCMOA, the river, the film community, the club scene, the music scene, the independent restaurant scene. There are things happening all the time by groups of people who work hard to put them on.

What I'm saying is, the appreciation of these things hasn't spread to the population as a whole. That report months ago that some locals didn't know Bricktown existed serves as an example. These events remain niche interests. For far too many people, the only writing with any wit they get is by Berry Tramel or John Rohde.

I know it will take time to make these events catch a wider audience. It just shows how far we have to go.

And as I've written here before, I think the city's business and civic leaders do get it. The possiblity of a citywide Wi-Fi network proves that. We in OKC are very lucky to have them. But for this progressive spirit to be meaningful, more people have to get it. At the very least, this means showing up to the events we are lucky to have.

To those who ask the question "why can I only drink 3.2 beer?"

Answer... tell the folks at Coors, Miller or Anheuser-Busch to get off their high-horse and end their strong beer embargo against Oklahoma. Or tell our state leaders and liquor distributors that franchising is not a big deal, and is done in 48 other states.

To those who ask the question "why can I only drink 3.2 beer?"

Answer... tell the folks at Coors, Miller or Anheuser-Busch to get off their high-horse and end their strong beer embargo against Oklahoma. Or tell our state leaders and liquor distributors that franchising is not a big deal, and is done in 48 other states.

It's state law that nothing more than 3.2 can be sold anywhere except liquor stores. I have mixed feelings about that law.

In reading this thread I started thinking about what is "hip" to different people. I feel certain that a lot of people think that Bass Pro is hip. That Toby Keith's is hip. That Harkins Theater is hip. So, is hip in the eye of the beholder. I certainly don't frequent BP, TK and HT, but I feel good about the places for those that do enjoy them. I also don't have a problem with the lack of brick in Lower Bricktown, as it is Lower Bricktown and not Bricktown. I see nothing wrong with the contrast, but then maybe I am just a red neck.

I think what we need is a "beyond bricktown" campaign that highlights the character and attractions of the city outside of downtown. It should focus on Western, the historic neighborhoods, the Asian District, and then maybe throw in some other nuggets scattered about, like Blue 7, Electro, Cheever's, etc.



Perhaps Todd can dedicate a new Thread / Forum on this board discussing 'Beyond Bricktown' ? It would be easy to direct city officials to this specific thread discussion. This way they can see first hand from residents what people are interested in and get ideas for improvement.

I too am appalled at the area surrounding the airport - I try to get right on the highway and far far away from that area. That definitely needs improvement.

But, I agree as well that it is up to those living here to point out the highlights of the city instead of accentuating all of the negatives. I have many first time visitors from out of state and they are all surprised at what OKC does offer. Keep in mind, some people are into family oriented activities and aren't as 'hip' as some would like so the Bricktown area is good for those sort of tourists.

It's state law that nothing more than 3.2 can be sold anywhere except liquor stores. I have mixed feelings about that law.


There is no law keeping Coors from selling 3.2 beer in a liquor store. Kansas is like that, 3.2 in grocery stores, stronger in liquor stores.

There are two laws that impact the beer sold in liquor stores.

The first one is a law against selling exclusive distributorship rights to goods sold in a liquor store. Coors et al make a great deal of money by selling the franchise rights that this law prohibits, so they don’t sell strong beer here, even though they legally could.

The second law is the one outlawing chilled goods from being sold in liquor stores; this is the law that upsets me more. It keeps all beer out of Oklahoma that is not pasteurized, which severely limits the range of smaller beers we get here.

Six-point beer is largely an Oklahoma urban myth, at least for mainstream beers. Bud Lite being 3.2 in Oklahoma is not really a big deal, the difference between a normally brewed Bud and a 3.2 Bud is only .03%. Bud here is 3.2 % alcohol by volume; normally brewed Bud is about 3.5 % by volume, that’s it. Standard American Pilsner, which all mainstream American beers are, is not a very high alcohol beer in any case, so the impact on the beer sold in grocery stores here is negligible.

To those who ask the question "why can I only drink 3.2 beer?"

Answer... tell the folks at Coors, Miller or Anheuser-Busch to get off their high-horse and end their strong beer embargo against Oklahoma. Or tell our state leaders and liquor distributors that franchising is not a big deal, and is done in 48 other states.


Is this honestly something you would tell an out of town visitor? That's typically who asks me this question. They just think it makes Oklahoma seem like a backwards craphole and they want to drink a nourishing, nutritious, delicious beer. 3.2 Bud Select ain't cuttin' it. They don't have the political power or time to lobby three major beer companies and crack the nut that has stumped generations of Oklahomans: how to bring our liquor laws into the current century.

Just pick them up at the airport with a cooler filled with imports- they won't have to ask ..:drunk:

Just what we need. OKC-----Come and visit the ever growing OKC, home of the 3.2 beer and hard liquor. We sell it so that you can drink and drive. No, leave the liquor industry out of this. we have enough problems already. :ohno:

Tell the people that are complaining about 3.2 to explore the studio space and go find a good dark ale. That is what I say.

Is this honestly something you would tell an out of town visitor? That's typically who asks me this question. They just think it makes Oklahoma seem like a backwards craphole and they want to drink a nourishing, nutritious, delicious beer. 3.2 Bud Select ain't cuttin' it. They don't have the political power or time to lobby three major beer companies and crack the nut that has stumped generations of Oklahomans: how to bring our liquor laws into the current century.

You'd be amazed at how many out-of-town visitors actually get angry at the big three breweries when you tell them their is no law banning them from selling their beer in a liquor store here. While many from out of state agree its arbitrary for Oklahoma to have such a law against franchising, those I spoke to felt that there is no need to short the consumer just because the company is more interested in selling exclusive distributorship rights.

But Coors and the other two did sell strong beer in Oklahoma, all the way until 1977.

Swake and I both know the actualities behind this entire predicament, so ask yourself... does Anheuser-Busch really care about the consumer?

Not being able to sell cold beverages in the liquor store is where we all need to fire the rocket. As for the liquor store owners who don't want to sell cold... well... tough. We want refrigerated quality, not spoiled warm staleness.

But soonerguru, seriously. The hard-core hip crowd doesn't liken themselves to Bud Select. Most take after the stouts, bocks and ales. All arguments aside, Salt Lake City is in the same situation as Oklahoma City and Tulsa, and even worse. Yet, they managed to attract the Olympics. The committee didn't base their decision on liquor laws, religious issues or religious zealots. It was terrain, and a bid the city put together. Yet, no one declared Salt Lake City backward.

I think we seriously need to stop the complaining and start taking action. Talking is wasting time. We know the problem. Let's fix it.

"There is no law keeping Coors from selling 3.2 beer in a liquor store. Kansas is like that, 3.2 in grocery stores, stronger in liquor stores."

True. However, the argument has been that supermarkets can not sell anything ABOVE 3.2. THAT is the law I was writing about, and that is what this discussion really is. Supermarkets sell 3.2, and I think liqour stores sell something like 6.0.

I do agree, although I do not drink alcoholic beverages, that supermarkets should be allowed to have a liqour isle.

back to topic please, start a beer thread

I think this whole idea of "hip" is a little absurd. Who the hell decides what's hip? How can you say we don't have anything hip in Oklahoma City? I don't think very many would call Bass Pro or Toby Keith's hip, but there are plenty of places that could be called hip. It's all about your definition. If you meet someone from Chicago or New York, obviously don't send them to Lower Bricktown. Send them to City Walk or Tapwerks or LIT or Cocktails on the Skyline or IAO depending on their specific tastes. Stop this pretending that we're all a bunch of hicks who hang out in Bass Pro all day and then top it off with a ho-down at Toby's.

And just because you don't agree with every aspect of Kelly Ogle's politics does not mean that he "doesn't get it" or doesn't want to see this city advance. There's nothing wrong with diversity and just because we have a few "religious zealots" doesn't mean that we can't be a functioning, progressive 21st century city. It's pretty clear that most of our "backwards" laws are not even remotely connected to religion or morality anymore. We're past that. And whoever said that all we have here is chain restaurants, well I just don't know where in the world you get that from.

We don't need this negative attitude. It only makes our city look worse to outsiders when we do nothing but rant about our own city and it's problems. We can encourage change and improvement without looking down on ourselves so much.

For the record, the last time I had a visitor from New York, I took her to TapWerks.

(Not many people can say that they've taken a Messianic Jew to an ale house.) :)

i think some of you took this as a thread about just complaining. instead of complaining you should be a doer, blah , blah, whatever. i was just trying to get a list of things that should be addressed so that the people that are in charge could have an easier time and wouldnt have to search around the site.

I think this whole idea of "hip" is a little absurd.
Exactly. But, maybe I just don't "get it" either. Then again, I've never been much of a trend-chaser anyway. :)

i think some of you took this as a thread about just complaining. instead of complaining you should be a doer, blah , blah, whatever. i was just trying to get a list of things that should be addressed so that the people that are in charge could have an easier time and wouldnt have to search around the site.

I didn't mean to insenuate that all you're doing is complaining. I agree with your opinion of our roads. I think it's a problem throughout Oklahoma and now they're saying our DAMS suck too. Excellent. Something needs to be done on a state level but that doesn't mean that the city can't make some improvement of it's own. My post I guess is more aimed at Soonerguru, who makes some pretty negative and even inflammatory statements (I know Kelly Ogle personally) and I'm not saying all he does is complain either, I just get tired of this conservative bashing.

I didn't mean to insenuate that all you're doing is complaining. I agree with your opinion of our roads. I think it's a problem throughout Oklahoma and now they're saying our DAMS suck too. Excellent. Something needs to be done on a state level but that doesn't mean that the city can't make some improvement of it's own. My post I guess is more aimed at Soonerguru, who makes some pretty negative and even inflammatory statements (I know Kelly Ogle personally) and I'm not saying all he does is complain either, I just get tired of this conservative bashing.

thanks for clearing that up.