Noticed today two different cars on opposite sides of I-44 by the airport. They were ordinary civilian SUV’s parked on the shoulder (emergency lane). I noticed they had a somewhat concealed camera on the roof pointing into the traffic lanes.

I’ve also seen unmarked Dodge Chargers driving around town with limo tint windows with 4 of these cameras. What are they doing and who are they?

My vote is the mobile cameras that are supposed to be getting the unlicensed/uninsured off the road.

The dark grey Ford Escape with the radar on the roof that was parked up at the construction for 2 days in a row on the north end of the hefner parkway may have either been averaging speed or counting traffic. Not sure which or for who.

The Chargers you have seen with the 4 cameras on the trunk lid I'm pretty sure is a repo company driving around scanning license plates. They also have a Hyundai rigged up the same way.

There was a grey Jeep Grand Cherokee parked near Santa Fe & 132nd backed into the Acme Brick west entrance, facing north. This jeep had dark tinted windows a single scanner mounted on the roof over the driver side, also aiming north. I drove passed it on the way to grab some lunch and it was still sitting there when I returned. I was eyeballing it pretty heavily and when I pulled into the parking lot and got out to snap a cell phone shot. It huriedly took off north bound on Santa Fe.

My thoughts were maybe they are private contractors scanning tags in the recent push to get uninsured motorists off the streets.

The Dodge Chargers I’ve seen with multiple scanners mounted outside were actual cop cars.

I saw one today going to the airport, it was on I44 north on the right shoulder and had on camera mounted looking at the back of cars.

I don't like the direction this is going. Invasion of privacy. I'm sure if they scan your tag they can find out anything they want about you in this high-tech computer world we live in. Maybe this is needed in todays world but I don't like it.

I don't like the direction this is going. Invasion of privacy. I'm sure if they scan your tag they can find out anything they want about you in this high-tech computer world we live in. Maybe this is needed in todays world but I don't like it.

At the risk of beating that very dead horse yet again...when was privacy ever expected on a public street, and why would it be?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YvAYIJSSZY

I don't like the direction this is going. Invasion of privacy. I'm sure if they scan your tag they can find out anything they want about you in this high-tech computer world we live in. Maybe this is needed in todays world but I don't like it.

If you think this is invasive, Oklahoma County has some SCARY toys at their disposal. The rulings are all over the place on this issue. Law enforcement can't use GPS trackers attached to your vehicle to track your car's movement. I'd think similar privacy concerns are at play here. It is more than a little concerning that there are no regulations as to how law enforcement can use this data, how long it can be retained, who it can be sold to, etc.

At the risk of beating that very dead horse yet again...when was privacy ever expected on a public street, and why would it be?

The problem is if they can scan your tag to see if your insured I assume they prob. have software that with a touch of a button they can get whatever info they want. I'm sure it's a good tool for law enforcement but it gives them much more power than they should have. This sounds like something the old Soviet Union would use on their citizens. Do we want that here?

If you think this is invasive, Oklahoma County has some SCARY toys at their disposal. The rulings are all over the place on this issue. Law enforcement can't use GPS trackers attached to your vehicle to track your car's movement. I'd think similar privacy concerns are at play here. It is more than a little concerning that there are no regulations as to how law enforcement can use this data, how long it can be retained, who it can be sold to, etc.

If Law enforcement has it now there will be others with the same capabilities soon to follow. In the wrong hands there's no telling what they could use it for. Pretty scary stuff.

The dark grey Ford Escape with the radar on the roof that was parked up at the construction for 2 days in a row on the north end of the hefner parkway may have either been averaging speed or counting traffic. Not sure which or for who.

Hefner Parkway is a state highway, so traffic counts are done by OkDOT. Their traffic counts are done with a series of pneumatic tubes, that look kinda like hoses, stretched across the lanes (think of the tubes in old-timey gas stations that ring the bell when you drive over it). OkDOT usually tapes these down, leaves them for a few days, and comes back for the data.

So whatever that car was doing, it wasn't counting traffic.

Like surveillance camera video feeds and cellphone location histories, the automatic license plate readers (ALPRs) are another forensic law enforcement tool to retrace a suspect’s movements. ALPRs are also placed in discrete, permanent locations, a less-costly option than the vehicle mounts.

An officer can already enter your plate and know everything. It seems to me that the only real difference is scanning can do the same thing in mass.

U.S. v. Jones--a unanimous decision--established that the 4th Amendment protects against warrantless searches in which law enforcement would place a GPS device on someone's vehicle to track their location. Law enforcement argued in that case that no one has a reasonable expectation of privacy on a public thoroughfare. The Supreme Court rejected that argument. If law enforcement was to post a sign near wherever these cameras are to inform the public that their license plates were being photographed, I don't think there's a constitutional issue. Otherwise, I think this practice has a lot of problems constitutionally.

I would think that tracking your vehicle with a device specifically attached to it for that purpose and scanning a tag every vehicle has one of and that’s displayed for public view are apples and oranges.

Hefner Parkway is a state highway, so traffic counts are done by OkDOT. Their traffic counts are done with a series of pneumatic tubes, that look kinda like hoses, stretched across the lanes (think of the tubes in old-timey gas stations that ring the bell when you drive over it). OkDOT usually tapes these down, leaves them for a few days, and comes back for the data.

So whatever that car was doing, it wasn't counting traffic.

I ‘ve seen ODOT parked along roadways doing manual traffic counts, but they were in marked ODOT vehicles. Not lowkey dark tinted civilian type vehicles.

Just throwing this out there: What would everyone think about the OHP automatically issuing speeding citations on an Oklahoma turnpike based upon your travel time between PikePass sensors?

Just throwing this out there: What would everyone think about the OHP automatically issuing speeding citations on an Oklahoma turnpike based upon your travel time between PikePass sensors?

Then its time to go back to tossing change and no pass

Just throwing this out there: What would everyone think about the OHP automatically issuing speeding citations on an Oklahoma turnpike based upon your travel time between PikePass sensors?I’m really surprised they don’t.

Then its time to go back to tossing change and no pass

That wouldn't work. Back in the old days, an attendant would present a time-stamped stub when entering the turnpike, and give it to another attendant at your exit. The OTA could do it, but I can't imagine that they ever would. However, the NJ Turnpike used to do something similar - toll plaza attendants would notice infractions and alert a trooper standing nearby who would wave over the motorist and cite him for equipment violations, expired tag, etc.

Just throwing this out there: What would everyone think about the OHP automatically issuing speeding citations on an Oklahoma turnpike based upon your travel time between PikePass sensors?

They used to do that back in the day. I remember on the Turner Turnpike, when you entered the gates that used to be by I-35, you would get a time stamped ticket, and at any of the attended gates between there and Tulsa, you could receive a speeding ticket if you arrived there too soon.

The problem with this is make one stop and you've gamed the system. Using Turner as an example, it's 86 miles. At a speed limit of 75MPH that's just over an hour. So if you're there in an hour, you sped, you get a ticket, right? So if you drive 90MPH you're in trouble, cause it's timed.

Anyone who gets a ticket deserves it, because all you need to do is stop once to go pee and you've padded the time. Other than the cops along the way might have something to say about it, you can do 90. The time in line waiting to pay might even be enough to pad it up. Of course, back in the days of "double nickel" maybe it made sense, but it's just not worth the time now. Even with the automation of Pikepass.

The speed limit of the turnpike needs to be raised. I was comfortably doing 85-90 this morning. Didn’t a bill pass that allowed the speed limit to be raised to 80? What happened to that?

The problem with this is make one stop and you've gamed the system. Using Turner as an example, it's 86 miles. At a speed limit of 75MPH that's just over an hour. So if you're there in an hour, you sped, you get a ticket, right? So if you drive 90MPH you're in trouble, cause it's timed.

Anyone who gets a ticket deserves it, because all you need to do is stop once to go pee and you've padded the time. Other than the cops along the way might have something to say about it, you can do 90. The time in line waiting to pay might even be enough to pad it up. Of course, back in the days of "double nickel" maybe it made sense, but it's just not worth the time now. Even with the automation of Pikepass.
But most people who drive 90 wouldn’t stop to beat the system. The point is getting from A to B as fast as possible.

The problem with this is make one stop and you've gamed the system. Using Turner as an example, it's 86 miles. At a speed limit of 75MPH that's just over an hour. So if you're there in an hour, you sped, you get a ticket, right? So if you drive 90MPH you're in trouble, cause it's timed.

Anyone who gets a ticket deserves it, because all you need to do is stop once to go pee and you've padded the time. Other than the cops along the way might have something to say about it, you can do 90. The time in line waiting to pay might even be enough to pad it up. Of course, back in the days of "double nickel" maybe it made sense, but it's just not worth the time now. Even with the automation of Pikepass.

They don’t do that any more. But they used to. And yes, you could pull over somewhere and pad your time. I’ve made numerous hot runs to Tulsa in under an hour. And that was beyond gate to gate. and would have deserved the ticket had I heen stopped. But I never had to pay a fine at the gates or through pike pass.

But most people who drive 90 wouldn’t stop to beat the system. The point is getting from A to B as fast as possible.

That was the "anyone who gets a ticket deserves it" part. I will always always always support a tax on the stupid.

U.S. v. Jones--a unanimous decision--established that the 4th Amendment protects against warrantless searches in which law enforcement would place a GPS device on someone's vehicle to track their location. Law enforcement argued in that case that no one has a reasonable expectation of privacy on a public thoroughfare. The Supreme Court rejected that argument. If law enforcement was to post a sign near wherever these cameras are to inform the public that their license plates were being photographed, I don't think there's a constitutional issue. Otherwise, I think this practice has a lot of problems constitutionally.

To put a spin on this. If it is a repo company, the 4th amendment does not apply because it is not a Government actor.

My understanding is that most turnpike authorities in the US—I can't speak for OTA specifically, though—have a policy of not sharing toll timestamps with law enforcement unless required to by the courts, because of fears that it would lower usage rates of the electronic tolling system (e.g. PikePass, EZPass) or the turnpike generally. (The latter is something that OTA would likely be concerned with, as most of their turnpikes can be easily bypassed by US or state routes that preceded the turnpikes.) In most states, fines collected on the turnpike are not paid to the turnpike authority, so a turnpike authority has little incentive to turn the information over without a court order.

During my dad’s 30+ year tenure on the OTA board, he would never allow speed enforcement using the toll system, either by a time-stamped stub or electronically through PikePass. He also rejected how the NJ Turnpike employees notified NJ Troopers of equipment violations.

The turnpike timing for speeding and surveillance from vehicles on the side of the road may not be illegal, but it's certainly questionable... Sort of like this:

Taylor Swift Used Facial-Recognition Tech On Unknowing Fans To Find Stalkers (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/taylor-swift-used-facial-technology-on-unknowing-fans-to-find-stalker_us_5c126ac9e4b002a46c14db45)

Fans of the pop star were unknowingly monitored by facial-recognition technology at Swift’s May performance at the stadium, according to a Rolling Stone report. The system, built into a kiosk showcasing rehearsal footage for Swift’s Reputation tour, was intended to weed out people who threaten the pop star.

Images taken at Swift’s performance, which boasted a guest appearance by Shawn Mendes, reportedly were sent to a “command post” in Nashville to be cross-referenced against a database that included hundreds of people who had stalked the singer in the past, according to Rolling Stone.

To put a spin on this. If it is a repo company, the 4th amendment does not apply because it is not a Government actor.

In Oklahoma, GPS tracking absent consent is stalking. Even before that was the case, I still wouldn't allow my private investigators to use GPS trackers as I thought there were very questionable issues when private parties used them.

That was the "anyone who gets a ticket deserves it" part. I will always always always support a tax on the stupid.

Hope you weren’t dumb enough to let someone borrow your car.

KOCO on the story.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=webhp&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwis_q6p5L7fAhViMH0KHTJ2DF0QzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.koco.com%2Farticle%2Foklahom as-license-plate-scanners-flag-2100-vehicles%2F25683832&psig=AOvVaw2f6bv2Z5PzbMwnjv-3MxiE&ust=1545957959484391

2100 scofflaws identified in first weeks of program. Long overdue.

My understanding is that most turnpike authorities in the US—I can't speak for OTA specifically, though—have a policy of not sharing toll timestamps with law enforcement unless required to by the courts, because of fears that it would lower usage rates of the electronic tolling system (e.g. PikePass, EZPass) or the turnpike generally. (The latter is something that OTA would likely be concerned with, as most of their turnpikes can be easily bypassed by US or state routes that preceded the turnpikes.) In most states, fines collected on the turnpike are not paid to the turnpike authority, so a turnpike authority has little incentive to turn the information over without a court order.

I don’t believe a court order is necessary in Oklahoma. Just experienced this at a bond hearing. Prosecutor used the defendant’s PikePass time stamps to show the court that the defendant was driving excessively prior to an accident. I checked. No warrant was needed to get the information.

Professionally I love the tag scanners. As a PI I have access to the massive databases containing those images. I can enter a tag number and basicallly give you what a GPS used to provide (just less detail, but still enough to track many people). Makes skip tracing easier. Also helps identify where an individual works.

However, as a citizen I don’t like them, in some states there is simply no avoiding the scanners - as they are part of insurance inforcement, warrant enforcement, repossession enforcement, etc. Thry scan public roads and private property (driveways, apt parking lots, store parking lots, etc.)

KOCO on the story.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=webhp&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwis_q6p5L7fAhViMH0KHTJ2DF0QzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.koco.com%2Farticle%2Foklahom as-license-plate-scanners-flag-2100-vehicles%2F25683832&psig=AOvVaw2f6bv2Z5PzbMwnjv-3MxiE&ust=1545957959484391

2100 scofflaws identified in first weeks of program. Long overdue.

Thanks for the link. $174 fine is not much. It is about a month or two of a car insurance payment for the offenders. I don’t see it stopping them. Not much to lose.

Thanks for the link. $174 fine is not much. It is about a month or two of a car insurance payment for the offenders. I don’t see it stopping them. Not much to lose.

Depending on how long they have been uninsured, their rates will be higher as a result.

I believe you can't just pay the fine... You also have to demonstrate proof of insurance. And having it reinstated after a lapse is an additional penalty.

Thanks for the link. $174 fine is not much. It is about a month or two of a car insurance payment for the offenders. I don’t see it stopping them. Not much to lose.

$174 fine first time, AND you have to provide proof that you have insurance now, AND you sign an agreement to follow the law for the next two years. Second time? I would imagine it would be higher, especially if it is within that two year period. They have a lot to lose, if Oklahoma actually DOES anything this time.

I have several issues here. First, this should be overseen by the court system...not the DA's office. Second, this is a private company that is collecting the data and retaining the data on behalf of the state. They, as well as the DA's office split the money and the private company is the one that actually sends out the citation and collects the money. Law enforcement for profit is never a good thing. Further, the owner of the car is being held liable. So, your adult kid takes your extra car that you aren't driving so don't have it insured out while you are out of town.... you get the ticket. You sell a car a cancel the insurance but the buyer doesn't transfer the title or insure it....you get the ticket.

"Gatso USA, a Beverly, Massachusetts-based company that specializes in red-light-running and speeding detection systems, will initially get $80, or 43 percent, of each fine. Its cut will decrease to $74 after two years and $68 after five years, according to a contract approved by the state after months of legal review and negotiation. The company could expect to bring in $1.6 million a month, or $19 million a year, if the 20,000 citations are issued monthly. Gatso is a subsidiary of a Dutch company."

"It will be overseen by the District Attorneys Council rather than law enforcement, and the state’s 27 district attorneys’ offices are expected to receive millions of dollars in citation revenue a year, although no estimates were provided. District attorneys have complained that their revenue sources are diminishing because of state budget cuts and the drop in bounced-check fines."

"Citations will come from the company, not district attorneys. If vehicle owners don’t pay the citations, the information gets forwarded to district attorneys for potential prosecution... Vehicle owners who receive inaccurate citations can avoid payment by showing that they were insured at the time they were scanned."

http://oklahomawatch.org/2017/11/16/district-attorneys-approve-license-plate-scanner-contract-bringing-uninsured-drivers-closer-to-automatic-tickets/

So, your adult kid takes your extra car that you aren't driving so don't have it insured out while you are out of town

Just on this note, if your car is drive able and is registered, it must still carry liability insurance.

As for the for profit angle... I don't like it with speeding and with red light running, as those are scenarios that are hard to fight, and there's a built in incentive for a for-profit company to be a little aggressive on the ticketing. However, whether or not a car has insurance is pretty black and white. If you've sold a car legally you have paperwork to show when you've sold it, and it is pretty easy to fight. I had a car I sold not get registered by the new owners and rack up tons of parking tickets. When I was contacted, I provided documentation, and that was that.

If you own a running, driveable vehicle, but it is not being driven on public roadways, you can black tag the vehicle to keep it registered, and you do not have to carry liability insurance on it.

This big brother, profit driven system could have been avoided entirely with a couple of changes in the way cars are registered. The changes would also solve problems like Jerry had with the parking tickets.
1. Tags stay with owner, instead of the car.
2. Tag is issued upon proof of insurance.
3. State gives party that cancelled insurance to surrender tag within 10 days.
4. Driving with a invalid tag results in vehicle impoundment.

If you own a running, driveable vehicle, but it is not being driven on public roadways, you can black tag the vehicle to keep it registered, and you do not have to carry liability insurance on it.

Someone isn't gonna black tag their vehicle while on vacation which is I didnt bring it up. And by driveable I consider street driveable, which doesn't include a black tag. There's also the storage scenario, but again, not very likely (but potentially more for an extremely long vacation or a deployment).

This big brother, profit driven system could have been avoided entirely with a couple of changes in the way cars are registered. The changes would also solve problems like Jerry had with the parking tickets.
1. Tags stay with owner, instead of the car.
2. Tag is issued upon proof of insurance.
3. State gives party that cancelled insurance to surrender tag within 10 days.
4. Driving with a invalid tag results in vehicle impoundment.

You still run into the problem with #4, which is what this system is attempting to solve. Identifying those vehicles on the road driving without insurance (or with invalid tags).

Poster #37-Fine of 174 not much. My system of impoundment, towing, storage fee, plus 174. Cost of going w/o insurance is greater than premium. That increases compliance rate.
Completely eliminates buying a used car and never buying insurance. Once you incur cost of insurance you have the mindset to stay insured v high cost of letting it lapse.

Someone isn't gonna black tag their vehicle while on vacation which is I didnt bring it up. And by driveable I consider street driveable, which doesn't include a black tag. There's also the storage scenario, but again, not very likely (but potentially more for an extremely long vacation or a deployment).

Sorry, was going off the statement “if your car is drive able and is registered, it must still carry liability insurance.. Which in itself is not entirely true. But as you calrify, if it is to be driven on public streets, yes absolutely liability insurance is mandatory.

There are a lot of folks who do black tag vehicles. I’ve done it many times my self. But I never drove them on the streets while doing so.

Poster #37-Fine of 174 not much. My system of impoundment, towing, storage fee, plus 174. Cost of going w/o insurance is greater than premium. That increases compliance rate.
Completely eliminates buying a used car and never buying insurance. Once you incur cost of insurance you have the mindset to stay insured v high cost of letting it lapse.

Only if you eliminated the monthly option. The common practice now is for folks to sign up for insurance to get registered, and then dropping it after one month (or just not making any payments). I'd be fine with a penalty increase or impounding a car, but this doesnt help with identifying folks driving illegally in the first place. Regardless of the penalty something has to be in place to identify these lawbreakers.

You are correct in your belief that the monthly option contributes to the problem. The TW wrote an editorial on this practice and I would also agree with it and the concerns expressed by Jeep in outsourcing le to the highest bidder. The state needs to properly fund state services instead of outsourcing to private bidders.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/editorials/tulsa-world-editorial-insurance-bounty-hunters-are-looking-for-uninsured/article_4e6eaf6c-f837-5fd9-abb3-7b22cd2afab3.html

So this seems very strange to me. A private company is essentially blackmailing you to pay them a fine or else they turn it over to the DA’s office. You are guilty until you prove yourself innocent to the private company. If you don’t pay them, they forward your information to the state. Seems very invasive to me and a bastardization of our laws. Very lazy police work by our justice system.

So this seems very strange to me. A private company is essentially blackmailing you to pay them a fine or else they turn it over to the DA’s office. You are guilty until you prove yourself innocent to the private company. If you don’t pay them, they forward your information to the state. Seems very invasive to me and a bastardization of our laws. Very lazy police work by our justice system.

Don't like where this is heading. Next thing you know they will be sending out speeding tickets for going 5 mph over and if you don't pay you go to jail and they get more money.

So before we start getting too ridiculous here, there's no blackmail going on. It's against the law in Oklahoma to drive without insurance. Oklahoma finally enforcing this law (assuming they even are, there's a big difference between identifying the people doing it and actually doing something about it) falls under no definition of blackmail anywhere.

So before we start getting too ridiculous here, there's no blackmail going on. It's against the law in Oklahoma to drive without insurance. Oklahoma finally enforcing this law (assuming they even are, there's a big difference between identifying the people doing it and actually doing something about it) falls under no definition of blackmail anywhere.

How do the people scanning the car tags know who is driving the car? How do they know who to send the ticket to?

How do the people scanning the car tags know who is driving the car? How do they know who to send the ticket to?

It goes to the car owner.

So before we start getting too ridiculous here, there's no blackmail going on. It's against the law in Oklahoma to drive without insurance. Oklahoma finally enforcing this law (assuming they even are, there's a big difference between identifying the people doing it and actually doing something about it) falls under no definition of blackmail anywhere.

Exactly. I can see someone being philosophically opposed to private/public collaborations like this (although it's naive of them, since this happens all the time) but there's nothing nefarious going on here, and I can't even see a way this could be abused by the companies. Either you're following the law or you're not. There's no judgement call being made by the company.

So this seems very strange to me. A private company is essentially blackmailing you to pay them a fine or else they turn it over to the DA’s office. You are guilty until you prove yourself innocent to the private company. If you don’t pay them, they forward your information to the state. Seems very invasive to me and a bastardization of our laws. Very lazy police work by our justice system.

That's not what the article says at all.


Officials say the cameras scan all license plates, then the tags are compared to a database that lists vehicles with liability insurance. The images of any vehicles not on the list are then forwarded to the state Uninsured Vehicle Enforcement Diversion office for further review.

It goes to the car owner.
Then you have to go to court to fight it. Just more BS IMO. I'm all for getting the uninsured off the roads but don't like this tag scanning scam. Uninsured motorists are just the start. They will see that they can make tons of money in other areas and they wont be able to control themselves. This private co. gains to make a lot of money right along with law enforcement. Hopefully they will have some strict rules that will restrict them to uninsured motorist only.

It goes to the car owner.

Yes, I know that. But how do they know who committed the violation?

Yes, I know that. But how do they know who committed the violation?

The car owner. It's illegal to own a car without insurance on it in Oklahoma, unless it's black tagged or in storage.

Then you have to go to court to fight it. Just more BS IMO.

What's to fight. Either the car you own is insured or it isn't. Doesn't matter who's driving it. The one exception is if you sold a car and they never tag it. But that's resolved pretty easily, without going to court.