Yes, I know that. But how do they know who committed the violation?

Legally, you are responsible for your car. You are, as a car owner in the State of Oklahoma, required to insure that car. If you do not, it doesn't matter who was driving, you are the one who failed to carry insurance. Therefore, there is no question who committed the violation.

Now before we throw the red herring of "a person who is not me borrowed the car, stole it, whatever" out there, I invite you to again review the law regarding who is responsible for insuring the car in the State of Oklahoma. Any beef you have with this other person who is not you is between you and that person, the beef Oklahoma has is with you.

That's not what the article says at all.

"Citations will come from the company, not district attorneys. If vehicle owners don’t pay the citations, the information gets forwarded to district attorneys for potential prosecution... Vehicle owners who receive inaccurate citations can avoid payment by showing that they were insured at the time they were scanned."

http://oklahomawatch.org/2017/11/16/...matic-tickets/

What's to fight. Either the car you own is insured or it isn't. Doesn't matter who's driving it. The one exception is if you sold a car and they never tag it. But that's resolved pretty easily, without going to court.

If they were to issue you a ticket and you actually have insurance you will have to go through the motions and fight it and prove to them you have insurance. I can promise you they will mistakenly issue citations on vehicles that have insurance. Hopefully they will set something up to where you don't have to go to court and prove it. It will happen.

If it’s like any other “got a ticket for no insurance, but I had insurance” scenario that always existed in the state it will be something like this:

Take your proof of insurance and citation to the court clerk, and they will cancel out the ticket.

If it’s like any other “got a ticket for no insurance, but I had insurance” scenario that always existed in the state it will be something like this:

Take your proof of insurance and citation to the court clerk, and they will cancel out the ticket.

If it’s like any other “got a ticket for no insurance, but I had insurance” scenario that always existed in the state it will be something like this:

Take your proof of insurance and citation to the court clerk, and they will cancel out the ticket.

That actually happened to me years ago in Yukon. I had insurance but didn't have the new verification card in the vehicle. I went to court figuring they would throw it out and the judge cut it in half saying the law is to carry valid card in your vehicle at all times.

Well naturally the company doing this wants more uninsured drivers on the road not less so makes you wonder what legislation they’ll lobby for to make that happen.

Stop trying to make this what it isn’t because part of the process involves a private company. Law enforcement agencies outsource to private companies all the time. Checks & balances exist throughout the process, including - as I recall - two sworn officers who check every violation before a citation is issued to the owner.

Stop trying to make this what it isn’t because part of the process involves a private company. Law enforcement agencies outsource to private companies all the time. Checks & balances exist throughout the process, including - as I recall - two sworn officers who check every violation before a citation is issued to the owner.

^^^ If you're talking about the current process, it's apparently not working very well yet, those two officers need to step up their game. Only two identified in the story, but who knows how many more haven't been reported.

https://kfor.com/2019/01/02/new-license-plate-scanning-program-incorrectly-fining-some-drivers/

One off those 2 examples was the system working as it should. The biggest change needed is that Oklahoma should allow owners to remove tags when they sell a car.

One off those 2 examples was the system working as it should. The biggest change needed is that Oklahoma should allow owners to remove tags when they sell a car.

Then the vehicle would have NO tag until re-registered, and that opens a new array of problems for the police.

BTW, if you sell a car to a third party, ALWAYS use a notarized bill of sale. If the vehicle is involved in an accident, crime or a violation such as this, you have proof that it was sold, when and to whom.

Then the vehicle would have NO tag until re-registered, and that opens a new array of problems for the police.

BTW, if you sell a car to a third party, ALWAYS use a notarized bill of sale. If the vehicle is involved in an accident, crime or a violation such as this, you have proof that it was sold, when and to whom.

Better still is to transfer title to the new owner at your handy dandy tag agent at the time of sale. I sold a car some time ago without doing that, and while I had no later problem, realizing the potential problem to which I was leaving myself exposed scares the crap out of me now.

There is a "next best" thing (sorta) you can do - there's a DMV form you can fill out and file attesting to the sale of a vehicle. I don't remember the form number or name, but it was precisely for issues relating to sale transfers wherein the new owner was slow to register the vehicle.

I wonder how it works in states that allow or in some cases require you to remove the tags when selling a vehicle.

In NJ commercial dealers are authorized to do the initial registration and issue the plates. Got to have that proof of insurance to get the car.
If a private sale, you can drive the car from the sellers place to your place w/o a plate. That is the only authorized plateless journey.Very small window there as the title has a date on it. You have 3 days to get to a local DMV office to get plates if you don't have any from a previous car you sold at the same time. If you have previous plates you must reregister those plates with the new purchase.

Better still is to transfer title to the new owner at your handy dandy tag agent at the time of sale. I sold a car some time ago without doing that, and while I had no later problem, realizing the potential problem to which I was leaving myself exposed scares the crap out of me now.

There is a "next best" thing (sorta) you can do - there's a DMV form you can fill out and file attesting to the sale of a vehicle. I don't remember the form number or name, but it was precisely for issues relating to sale transfers wherein the new owner was slow to register the vehicle.

You may also be able to use your bank. I once sold a pickup to a guy, and we both went to the tag agent together. The tag agent refused to notorized the title because she didn’t like the shade of blue that was in the background in my driver license photo. .......
Not kidding!.

So we drove over to his bank, and we completed the deal there and they notorized it.

15106
Single-camera vehicle recording northbound vehicles at NW 63rd & Western. He apparently attracted the attention of someone at Bank7 who is speaking with the driver.

15106
Single-camera vehicle recording northbound vehicles at NW 63rd & Western. He apparently attracted the attention of someone at Bank7 who is speaking with the driver.

Invasion of privacy. Whoever is in that vehicle could prob. have your credit rating on his screen in a matter of seconds.

I saw this vehicle there this morning right before 10A. I noticed there was nobody in the car, however an open laptop. How about a local news station check them out . . . . KFOR??

What a great idea to tip the media to look into. They may be perfectly innocent but they may not be.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but your hopes of KFOR doing a great expose and busting this thing wide open aren't going to happen. They've already covered it at least half a dozen times. Some of the articles have already been posted in this very thread.

But if you still think it's a great idea, their number is 405-424-4444. News hotline is 405-478-NEWS.

Yesterday driving on one of the local interstates seen a cop car getting behind cars then moving to next lane and getting behind others and so on. Looked like he was scanning plates. I watched for a couple miles and he was from one lane to another pretty much non stop.

Anyone that has unpaid parking/traffic tickets better get them paid. I would assume they can tell if you have a warrant out for arrest as they scan your tag.

I'm in the auto body business, and about 20% of out customers were hit by uninsured drivers. That's a big number and it hasn't changed much in over 20 years. I don't like the idea of a police state, and this stuff feels like it. But, I'm willing to go along with this.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but your hopes of KFOR doing a great expose and busting this thing wide open aren't going to happen. They've already covered it at least half a dozen times. Some of the articles have already been posted in this very thread.

But if you still think it's a great idea, their number is 405-424-4444. News hotline is 405-478-NEWS.

Man, being so snide is not necessary. Thanks.

I’m just afraid the targeting of uninsured motorists is just a way to get the public to agree to the idea of these independent tag scanners. My fear is the next step - or, really just an expanding of what they are currently doing - utilizing tag scanners to track vehicle movements. Like I’ve mentioned before, these images are already made available in other states for uses beyond insurance, speed and moving violation enforcement. The private sector can pay to access these images.

Man, being so snide is not necessary. Thanks.

Not being even remotely snide. If you think it would be a great tip, there's the number(s) to call. However, like I said, they've already covered the story multiple times.

This program gets a giant thumbs down from me.

Three choices when dealing with those who don’t have insurance: 1) Do nothing; 2) Impound the car; or 3) Mail a ticket. Of those three, the third is the most reasonable for both the uninsured car owner, and those he might hit.

How do the people scanning the car tags know who is driving the car? How do they know who to send the ticket to?

Unless they were maintaining that vehicle for use only off of the public roadway, then not carrying insurance is still against the law.

Don't recall it being mentioned..... Do these scanners read tribal and out of state tags too?

Saw one of the unmarked tag reader vehicles today. Parked on the I-44 ramp where it merges with the Lake Hefner Parkway heading south. The vehicle was an SUV parked on the shoulder. Traffic is reduced to a single lane there and thousands of vehicles line up and go by hourly.

Here's two pics....

1511015109

Don't recall it being mentioned..... Do these scanners read tribal and out of state tags too?

One of the early articles on it said no. Which might explain the explosion of tribal tags lately.

One of the early articles on it said no. Which might explain the explosion of tribal tags lately.

Which is absolute bull****.

So how do we get a tribal tag? Can we join a tribe?

Hopefully someone will come out with a scrambler to send a bad signal to these scammers.

What if the bad guys get these scanners? They can track where you live and use gps to see when someone is not home and no telling what. I think potentially the bad outweighs the good with these things.

So how do we get a tribal tag? Can we join a tribe?

Hopefully someone will come out with a scrambler to send a bad signal to these scammers.

What if the bad guys get these scanners? They can track where you live and use gps to see when someone is not home and no telling what. I think potentially the bad outweighs the good with these things.

The "bad guys" don't need scanners. They just need to pay a PI to run the tag number and access the databases of the scanners that have been out there already for several years now.

Man, being so snide is not necessary. Thanks.

It's just his way. l'm sure his mother loves him, though. :)

One of the early articles on it said no. Which might explain the explosion of tribal tags lately.

Makes you wonder about vanity and specialty plates.

So how do we get a tribal tag? Can we join a tribe?

Hopefully someone will come out with a scrambler to send a bad signal to these scammers.

What if the bad guys get these scanners? They can track where you live and use gps to see when someone is not home and no telling what. I think potentially the bad outweighs the good with these things.

Facepalm.

Or they could set in the street and watch you drive away from your house.

I need to invest in foil futures.

Facepalm.

Or they could set in the street and watch you drive away from your house.

I need to invest in foil futures.

Actually OKCRT has a point.

There are many real world uses for this data that doesn't sit well with me and shouldn't sit well with the public.

From my personal experience;
1.) I personally know of at least two sex trafficking victims that were tracked down by their pimps who paid a PI to run their tag and was able to find the city and state they were residing in. In one case, there was so much data he could track down where she worked (because her car was continuously scanned in the parking lot) and the apartment complex she was living in.

2.) Abusive husbands have used this data to locate an ex that is hiding from them.

3.) I've read numerous police reports where police go to these databases looking for people (often people not yet charged or even convicted of a crime) and they don't need a warrant to get this data. Additionally, it has been shown many times, police will also access this type of data for their personal use. Police already often run tags of women they find attractive to get all their info.

Other Real World Uses:

1.) Police now can totally circumvent the warrant process and simply have a private company do the tracking for them.

2.) Some companies compile the data geographically. Meaning, law enforcement or private citizens can request all the tag numbers that have been recorded at a specific location. Then reverse search those numbers for the identities of the registered drivers. The location could be specific businesses, politicians offices/residences, specific neighborhoods, whatever.

3.) I see nothing preventing law enforcement from requesting that one of these private companies target specific locations (streets, businesses, residences) so LE can access that data later and without a warrant or just cause.

4.) Anyone can now simply go on "fishing expeditions" to try and find or even just imply dirt on anyone - a rival, a politician, a co-worker, a spouse, you name it.

5.) Insurance companies could access this data in the future when determining your rates. Same could even go with health insurance (oops, your car was seen pretty regularly at bars, you're a higher risk for car and health insurance. *It's already been shown some of those companies currently check your social media.)

There is nothing "tinfoil" about where this is heading and already is.

Why go through the tag scanning companies, when you carry a cellphone with you 24/7?

Facepalm.

Or they could set in the street and watch you drive away from your house.

I need to invest in foil futures.

Seriously naive. Yes they can sit down the street and watch you drive away and track you with gps while their buddies are cleaning you out. Hope it never happens to you or a loved one.

Still trying to figure out where the GPS comes in to license plates.

I'm waiting to hear about government chip implants next.

This reads like an Art Bell special.

I know people routinely invest in hundreds or thousands of dollars in hardware, surveillance, and building an Oceans 11 level team/squad to pull off smash and grabs at houses. It's why I keep my Picasso at a museum.

At least some of the concerns/examples Brian provided makes sense., although some of them predate this type of technology. And it seems like a lot of these issues stem from lack of access control on who or what can get information.

Why go through the tag scanning companies, when you carry a cellphone with you 24/7?

Use a cell phone that tracks your movements and more, have an account on Iinkedin which shows where you work, own a home and there are suddenly tax records and mortgage records freely and easily available online, register to vote and we can even find out where your precinct is, and when you last voted, tag yourself on facebook from Hawaii and let everyone know your house is empty and you're out of town, apply for credit and share your employment information, have a bank account, and a million other ways you can be tracked, monitored, or whatever, and no one things twice about it. But have scanners which check your license plate to see if you have insurance, and suddenly you're in the middle of a heist movie.

I know that my home is more likely to be broken into as an attack of opportunity than anything else. It's not naivete to be rational about your concerns though. Same reason I don't carry a lead umbrella to protect me from meteors and falling turtles. Possibly doesn't equate probable.

Use a cell phone that tracks your movements and more, have an account on Iinkedin which shows where you work, own a home and there are suddenly tax records and mortgage records freely and easily available online, register to vote and we can even find out where your precinct is, and when you last voted, tag yourself on facebook from Hawaii and let everyone know your house is empty and you're out of town, apply for credit and share your employment information, have a bank account, and a million other ways you can be tracked, monitored, or whatever, and no one things twice about it. But have scanners which check your license plate to see if you have insurance, and suddenly you're in the middle of a heist movie.

I know that my home is more likely to be broken into as an attack of opportunity than anything else. It's not naivete to be rational about your concerns though. Same reason I don't carry a lead umbrella to protect me from meteors and falling turtles. Possibly doesn't equate probable.

The problem with the "technology can be used for evil" discussion is twofold. First of all, of course, it's been done to death. Secondly, can doesn't mean will. 'Can' an abusive husband abuse this system, find his ex/estranged and do something bad? Yup. Can he do it without this system? Yup. Are there laws in place to handle this abuse? Yup. All boils down to are we willing to finally enforce the laws we have. But there's absolutely nothing new here.

... And it seems like a lot of these issues stem from lack of access control on who or what can get information.

Since the information is gathered by private companies on public streets, then there is very little you can do at the moment to control access to the information. The companies who have this data police themselves. However, when the bar is set at simply letting any PI, bondsman, repo-man etc. access the data - then in reality, there are no limitations.

I think some of you are content to give away every right you have unless or until it directly impacts you.

The problem with the "technology can be used for evil" discussion is twofold. First of all, of course, it's been done to death. Secondly, can doesn't mean will. 'Can' an abusive husband abuse this system, find his ex/estranged and do something bad? Yup. Can he do it without this system? Yup. Are there laws in place to handle this abuse? Yup. All boils down to are we willing to finally enforce the laws we have. But there's absolutely nothing new here.


Exactly what law would you enforce in the situation of an abusive husband or pimp? If it's legal to get the information (which it is) then your solution seems to be to simply react after they've then used that information to commit a criminal act - like assault or murder. I'd think the better solution would be to create laws now that forbid how this technology or databases can be accessed and used going forward. I'm perfectly willing to give up my right as a PI to access this data if the broader good is being served. Exactly why I didn't care when they took away a PI's (and even a spouse's) ability to place a GPS on a vehicle.

Exactly what law would you enforce in the situation of an abusive husband or pimp? If it's legal to get the information (which it is) then your solution seems to be to simply react after they've then used that information to commit a criminal act - like assault or murder. I'd think the better solution would be to create laws now that forbid how this technology or databases can be accessed and used going forward. I'm perfectly willing to give up my right as a PI to access this data if the broader good is being served. Exactly why I didn't care when they took away a PI's (and even a spouse's) ability to place a GPS on a vehicle.

I'm rather certain you are aware of how protective orders work, so I see little need to go into detail. Unfortunately, as you are also aware, reactive is simply how the law works. The violator of a protective order (regardless of how he/she obtains any information used to commit the violation) will not be punished until after the violation occurs. Doesn't matter if they access a database or follow the person around, either physically or online.

I honestly can't tell which pony you're following. The information shouldn't be collected, or access to the information should be limited? Because I think almost anyone would agree with the latter, With obvious laws to prevent the abuse you mentioned above. Laws that are actually enforced.

It’s just surveillance man

https://youtu.be/g4gqGLAXQBA

Keep letting them get away with stuff like this the next thing you know they will have a camera inside your house watching and listening. They keep chipping away at your privacy / freedom and if there's no push back they will keep going. Soon it will be a fully fledged police state. Yes that's extreme but that is the direction things are going.

Keep letting them get away with stuff like this the next thing you know they will have a camera inside your house watching and listening. They keep chipping away at your privacy / freedom and if there's no push back they will keep going. Soon it will be a fully fledged police state. Yes that's extreme but that is the direction things are going.

Why, that's crazy talk! You might as well say that people would even WELCOME it, in fact...PAY for it!

https://portal.facebook.com/

(All kidding aside, you really have to be stupid to give Facebook of all companies this power.)

Same should be said about all the wireless security and surveillance systems that are connected to your home or business networks and smart phones, where you can be hacked into and be watched. The latest wave of “smart” appliances as well. Who the heck needs a refrigerator or oven that connects to the internet?. Our cars too... being connected is the hot thing. And being tracked is nothing new. Since The mid 90’s, anyone who has owned a GM vehicle equipped with Onstar has had their movements stored in a database since they drove off the lot. Rental car companies have tracked their customer movements for years as well. That’s probably a slim sample, but it’s a safe bet your movements have already been recoreded long before the tag readers came on board.

You don’t even need Alexa & Co, your phone is already listening.

You don’t even need Alexa & Co, your phone is already listening.

It's why I throw out a verbal "God Bless the NSA" every now and then, so my phone can pick it up. :D

At a friend's house when they step out of the room: "Alexa, what is the best way to dissolve a freshly-dismembered body?"

It's why I throw out a verbal "God Bless the NSA" every now and then, so my phone can pick it up. :D

that reminds me of one of my favorite cold war jokes...

while taking an electronics technician certification exam in the city, a man is put up in a hotel room with three other workers. as it's getting late the three workers are getting drunk and loud and telling political jokes. needing sleep, the man asks them keep it down but they ignore him.

so the man hatches a plan... he goes downstairs to the front desk and orders a cup of tea to be delivered 30 minutes later. he then goes back upstairs and waits several minutes and then speaks into the ashtray, "comrade colonel, please send up a cup of tea." the three others laugh, but moments later they're white as a ghost as soon as the tea arrives. without saying a word, they each go to sleep.

the next morning, the man awakens to an empty room. as he's checking out, he asks the front desk, "what happened to the three workers that i was sharing the room with?" the person at the front desk replies, "oh, they were all arrested in the middle of the night for dissent." puzzled, the man asks, "why wasn't i taken, too?" the other answers, "comrade colonel likes your sense of humor."

Saw one of these parked on 235n just at bend north of 50th. But drivers slowed down like a wreck (lookieloos) and backed traffic up to 36th. Should not be there at rush hour.

Same should be said about all the wireless security and surveillance systems that are connected to your home or business networks and smart phones, where you can be hacked into and be watched. The latest wave of “smart” appliances as well. Who the heck needs a refrigerator or oven that connects to the internet?. Our cars too... being connected is the hot thing. And being tracked is nothing new. Since The mid 90’s, anyone who has owned a GM vehicle equipped with Onstar has had their movements stored in a database since they drove off the lot. Rental car companies have tracked their customer movements for years as well. That’s probably a slim sample, but it’s a safe bet your movements have already been recoreded long before the tag readers came on board.

And I defy you to be able to pick up the phone and within 10 minutes get the results on a 3rd party of the alleged 'tracking' you talk about above.

With tag readers you literally can place a phone call and get all that info on someone else within seconds. Big difference between that and some hypothetical, "well, someone COULD potentially hack your this or that." Heck, lets just stop requiring search warrants all together then - I mean, the info is out there anyway, right?

With tag readers you literally can place a phone call and get all that info on someone else within seconds.

If you have the access to make that phone call, is a tag reader required, or just knowing the tag number at all (so seeing it yourself)?

I'll just leave this here then.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/01/t-mobile-sprint-and-att-still-selling-your-location-data-report-says/

If you have the access to make that phone call, is a tag reader required, or just knowing the tag number at all (so seeing it yourself)?

The process is simply; Log into the database, enter a tag number and the state it was issued by. Within seconds a list of every instance that tag has been visually recorded is shown to you. The list contains the image recorded (for visual verification), the date, time and even shows the location on a map. in areas where these scanners are common, a single tag inquiry can produce thousands of sightings and literally map a person's movements.

Well, now that the horses have left, this would be as good a time as any to ponder closing the barn door.

https://kfor.com/2019/02/28/bill-aims-to-regulate-use-of-data-from-license-plate-readers/