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Laramie
12-18-2018, 01:20 PM
ECHL: https://www.echl.com/#tab_standings-groups-leaders-conference-eastern=north&tab_standings-groups-leaders-conference-western=conference&tab_standings-groups-leaders=eastern&tab_statistics-players-leaders=forwards

Tulsa Oilers are impressive; 7th among 27 teams in the league.

https://tulsaoilers.com/wp-content/uploads/Tulsa-Oilers-at-BOK-Center-768x512.jpg

ECHL Attendance: http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph_season.php?lid=ECHL2004&sid=2019

Mel
12-18-2018, 01:57 PM
I miss the Turnpike Rivalry.

OKCRT
12-18-2018, 01:59 PM
Need to see if Adirondack would move to OKC? They would have a built in fan base here.

jedicurt
12-18-2018, 02:13 PM
Need to see if Adirondack would move to OKC? They would have a built in fan base here.

the issue is where would they play? the city doesn't want hockey in the Peake and there is no long term plans to keep the Cox, and not real sure about future of Norrick... this is why we don't currently have an ECHL team, because we almost had one a few years ago, and these factors are what lead to it not ever coming to fruition.

Of Sound Mind
12-18-2018, 03:49 PM
Really miss hockey in OKC

OKCRT
12-18-2018, 04:15 PM
the issue is where would they play? the city doesn't want hockey in the Peake and there is no long term plans to keep the Cox, and not real sure about future of Norrick... this is why we don't currently have an ECHL team, because we almost had one a few years ago, and these factors are what lead to it not ever coming to fruition.

Maybe Edmond has grown up enough to build a small arena? Maybe an Edmond MAPS could get it done. Seems like the City of Edmond could benefit from something like this.

Jersey Boss
12-18-2018, 05:10 PM
the issue is where would they play? the city doesn't want hockey in the Peake and there is no long term plans to keep the Cox, and not real sure about future of Norrick... this is why we don't currently have an ECHL team, because we almost had one a few years ago, and these factors are what lead to it not ever coming to fruition.
Do you know why OKC does not want hockey to be played at the Cheasapeake Arena? Have there been public pronouncements on this? Was it a Cornett thing?

Bill Robertson
12-18-2018, 05:27 PM
Do you know why OKC does not want hockey to be played at the Cheasapeake Arena? Have there been public pronouncements on this? Was it a Cornett thing?I’ve seen what it takes to build and tear down a basketball court over ice. It’s very laborious. My guess is that most of the time the the Thunder court stays put between games unless there’s a concert or ?. The city might just not be interested in the extra labor for a minor league hockey team. I wish they would. If we got the Blazers back we would have season tickets in a heartbeat.

Laramie
12-19-2018, 06:51 PM
We built the Peake to be a multipurpose arena. It was primary built for NHL specification/standards as well as indoor rodeo. Condensation build up from an ice plant below the court is the main concern the NBA has for co-shared basketball & ice hockey.

A new arena will cost us well above $600 million, take 3 years to construct--Peake will be 25 years old come 2027--maybe a new arena could be constructed for 2030 opening.

OKC did renovate to NBA specs in 2009 & 2010: https://www.chesapeakearena.com/about-the-arena/improvements

The Peake will need new seats, a few upgrades come 2025--23 years old. Oklahoma City needs to plan for the return of ice hockey for 2020-25.

Thunder are our major league anchor tenant (first choice on dates etc.,). The Los Angeles Staples Center is occupied & shared by Kings (NHL), Sparks (WNBA), Lakers & Clippers (NBA). Someone explain to me why OKC can figure out a way to accommodate NBA basketball & ECHL minor league ice hockey?

kwhey
12-20-2018, 01:31 PM
Sure wish we could have been Dallas' ECHL team. But, we know that reason.

Jersey Boss
12-20-2018, 01:53 PM
We built the Peake to be a multipurpose arena. It was primary built for NHL specification/standards as well as indoor rodeo. Condensation build up from an ice plant below the court is the main concern the NBA has for co-shared basketball & ice hockey.

A new arena will cost us well above $600 million, take 3 years to construct--Peake will be 25 years old come 2027--maybe a new arena could be constructed for 2030 opening.

OKC did renovate to NBA specs in 2009 & 2010: https://www.chesapeakearena.com/about-the-arena/improvements

The Peake will need new seats, a few upgrades come 2025--23 years old. Oklahoma City needs to plan for the return of ice hockey for 2020-25.

Thunder are our major league anchor tenant (first choice on dates etc.,). The Los Angeles Staples Center is occupied & shared by Kings (NHL), Sparks (WNBA), Lakers & Clippers (NBA). Someone explain to me why OKC can figure out a way to accommodate NBA basketball & ECHL minor league ice hockey?

MSG 50 years old and still playing hockey and basketball at the same arena. There are other major league cities like Dallas Boston, and Philly that also can accomplish it. Ridiculous OKC can't accomadate and make some extra leasing money as well as provide hockey fans a chance to watch their sport in person.

dcsooner
12-20-2018, 02:10 PM
Really miss hockey in OKC

Why? Oklahoma has never been a hockey hotbed. I do not believe the NHL would survive in OKC ala Phoenix, Carolina

Jake
12-20-2018, 02:40 PM
The NHL is barely surviving in Phoenix and Carolina. OKC could probably be at least the 28th or 29th team in attendance too.

dcsooner
12-20-2018, 02:47 PM
The NHL is barely surviving in Phoenix and Carolina. OKC could probably be at least the 28th or 29th team in attendance too.

Phoenix is 4x OKC pop, Raleigh-Durham about 2M. But not population issue alone , hockey cold weather sport suited for primarily cold weather cities and cities in or adjacent to Canada are most successful

Jersey Boss
12-20-2018, 03:10 PM
Dallas 12th in attendance, NY Islanders 31st.
But the question is why not ECHL in the Cheasapeake Arena? OKC doesn't need the money or exposure?

Laramie
12-20-2018, 03:37 PM
ECHL could survive in OKC with much better odds than the American Hockey League Barons.

You can't put a team in the Cox Convention Center with those tarped off seats. The AHL never stayed in OKC long enough to establish a rivalry. The Cox just doesn't match up to Tulsa's BOK Center or Wichita's Intrust Bank Arena.

You would have a better chance of survival with the ECHL in The Peake, here's why:

Thunder have been sold out since 2010; 357 active consecutive NBA sellout--third behind Dallas & Miami.
NBA Attendance: http://www.espn.com/nba/attendance

ECHL has two of OKC's most hated established rival cities in Tulsa & Wichita--these cities will bring bus loads of fans for a game in Oklahoma City in a venue as prestigious as the Chesapeake Energy Arena; also there are more things to do in OKC that makes us more of a 'Big League City.' Imagine the impact the streetcar would have on these visitors. Tulsa Oilers use to bring no less that 4 chartered buses to OKC not to mention the cars that traveled via the Turner Turnpike.

IMO, OKC is ready for the ECHL.

Jake
12-20-2018, 03:54 PM
OKC could easily support an ECHL team. It's just a matter if the powers that be want to put forth the effort/money for one. Looks like they don't.

Laramie
12-20-2018, 04:02 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEHNsKp36RY

Jersey Boss
12-20-2018, 04:42 PM
OKC could easily support an ECHL team. It's just a matter if the powers that be want to put forth the effort/money for one. Looks like they don't.

Are the powers to be the Thunder ownership group or is it the public servants of OKC?

jedicurt
12-21-2018, 11:02 AM
Are the powers to be the Thunder ownership group or is it the public servants of OKC?

a combo of both... i know someone who sat in on meetings to discuss putting the Dallas Stars ECHL team in OKC, and they were just basically told that they couldn't use Chesapeake arena, if they wanted to have any advertising or location for merch sales, and that there was zero room to negotiate on that. that no space would be given for a hockey store, and that just setting up tables would be the only option, and zero branding or advertising in the arena... the question was even asked about if they won the league could they put in a championship banner, and were told it would have to be taken down when games were not taking place... that if the needed these types of things, then Chesapeake arena was not an option... and since there is no long term plan for another facility in the city to house hockey... they left.

Mel
12-21-2018, 11:35 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEHNsKp36RY

Good times.

Laramie
12-21-2018, 01:05 PM
a combo of both... i know someone who sat in on meetings to discuss putting the Dallas Stars ECHL team in OKC, and they were just basically told that they couldn't use Chesapeake arena, if they wanted to have any advertising or location for merch sales, and that there was zero room to negotiate on that. that no space would be given for a hockey store, and that just setting up tables would be the only option, and zero branding or advertising in the arena... the question was even asked about if they won the league could they put in a championship banner, and were told it would have to be taken down when games were not taking place... that if the needed these types of things, then Chesapeake arena was not an option... and since there is no long term plan for another facility in the city to house hockey... they left.

Don't doubt your source here. My question: Who owns Chesapeake Energy Arena--City of Oklahoma City or Professional Basketball Club LLC (PBC)?

If the Thunder are planning to hog The Peake, I'm all in favor of building a new multipurpose arena at Fair Park or Stockyards City. Let's invest in some of these areas that truly qualify & benefit for TIF funds.

jedicurt
12-21-2018, 01:09 PM
Don't doubt your source here. My question: Who owns Chesapeake Energy Arena--City of Oklahoma City or Professional Basketball Club LLC (PBC)?

well the city... but the city doesn't want to upset their anchor tenant, especially when they are currently the only game in town. it's still very much the good ole boys club of helping people out they have known for years. so PBC gets to make the calls of what they are willing to concede and not.

Jersey Boss
12-21-2018, 05:52 PM
well the city... but the city doesn't want to upset their anchor tenant, especially when they are currently the only game in town. it's still very much the good ole boys club of helping people out they have known for years. so PBC gets to make the calls of what they are willing to concede and not.

IMO, another reason why publicly funded arenas for billionaires is bad policy. Certainly better lease terms so more concerts and hockey could utilize this public arena.

Rover
12-22-2018, 07:45 PM
a combo of both... i know someone who sat in on meetings to discuss putting the Dallas Stars ECHL team in OKC, and they were just basically told that they couldn't use Chesapeake arena, if they wanted to have any advertising or location for merch sales, and that there was zero room to negotiate on that. that no space would be given for a hockey store, and that just setting up tables would be the only option, and zero branding or advertising in the arena... the question was even asked about if they won the league could they put in a championship banner, and were told it would have to be taken down when games were not taking place... that if the needed these types of things, then Chesapeake arena was not an option... and since there is no long term plan for another facility in the city to house hockey... they left.
So, are you saying a minor league team should start diminishing a NBA team? That makes no sense at all. False equivalency.

jedicurt
12-24-2018, 10:35 AM
So, are you saying a minor league team should start diminishing a NBA team? That makes no sense at all. False equivalency.

how would any of those items diminished an NBA team? having a dedicated spot for merch sales? doesn't have to be the same or even and big of location as thunder have. having some branding in the arena? many arena's that have multiple tenants do this and it doesn't diminish anything for the anchor Tenant (have you been to the Spurs arena? they share with the San Antonio Rampage of the AHL, and the branding around the arena is about 6-1 infavor of the spurs, but the Rampage do have some branding in the arena, and no one has probably ever said that it is diminishing to the Spurts... and lastly, what is wrong with having multiple banner locations? this is done in many arenas throughout the country...

no one said or even suggested the thunder had to take down all of it's branding of the arena, or had to take down their banners.... it's a matter of sharing some of the branding within the arena, and having all the banners displayed during events. and there is plenty of places that a small hockey specific merch store could have been put.

not wanting to use an arena an extra 35 times a year is what makes no sense at all...

Laramie
12-24-2018, 11:25 AM
You could integrate the merchandise; sell both Thunder & ECHL (say Blazers) merchandise. The shops could use the same employees.

You don't have this problem with the food concessions inside the arena, IIRC.

jedicurt
12-24-2018, 12:39 PM
You could integrate the merchandise; sell both Thunder & ECHL (say Blazers) merchandise. The shops could use the same employees.

You don't have this problem with the food concessions inside the arena, IIRC.

agreed

OKCRT
12-24-2018, 03:32 PM
They would prob. put the basketball court down over the ice with a barrier in between. Slick spots could occur from moisture below. Pretty sure I remember this happening in other arenas before. One slick spot taking out Adams would be a deal breaker.

kwhey
01-09-2019, 03:07 PM
They would prob. put the basketball court down over the ice with a barrier in between. Slick spots could occur from moisture below. Pretty sure I remember this happening in other arenas before. One slick spot taking out Adams would be a deal breaker.

Yet, they have few to no problems in other arena across the country. Hell, LA went basketball-hockey-basketball-hockey in a span of 4 days. It's all about the Thunder wanting to hog the arena themselves.

Dob Hooligan
01-09-2019, 05:17 PM
I'm sure they do and I think they should. The Thunder have done more to change the international perception of Oklahoma City than any other effort. The NBA makes OKC a Big League City, pure and simple. An ECHL Team puts us with Scranton/Wilkes-Barre as a place that will sell 4,000 seats at $10 per. Great entertainment, but let's find them a different place to play.

dcsooner
01-09-2019, 05:32 PM
Nm

mugofbeer
01-09-2019, 05:39 PM
All the more reason to consider what is wanted in an arena at the fairgrounds. There should be an alternative arena for sports events tha t might interfere with the Thunder

OKC Guy
01-09-2019, 08:02 PM
On February 9, 2010, the American Hockey League Board of Governors approved of the relocation of the Oilers' inactive AHL franchise to Oklahoma City, after a five-year dormancy.[1]

After the team's inaugural season in 2010–11, the Barons finished in the bottom five in the league for average attendance, including worst in the league in 2012–13.[8] On December 18, 2014, the Oilers and Barons announced that the Barons would cease operations after the current season citing continued financial losses stemming from poor attendance.[9]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_Barons


Imo Hockey is not long term stable. Thunder don’t want any fans to bleed off either. Thunder have been blessed with competitive teams but in future once Russ is done they liklely take a hit. If hockey were here in down Thunder years it could bleed some fans.

Why risk it when hockey is the most unstable sport around. Teams are always on the move too.

Blazers used to draw big crowds but that was our big game in town then. The 2010 itteration competed with Thunder and ended up with poor fan showings and moved on. Its too unstable to invest any tax dollars in, much rather be thinking ahead to preserve Thunder. We need a future Thunder “Peake” plan while the team is still doing good. If we need to replace in 2030-35 timelone its not too early to think ahead.

Ironic how the original cost bid oversight (or undersight lol) meant it was built for $85m! The mods/upgrades cost more!

Streetcar cost more than original Peake did (Ford Center then).

Let Tulsa have hockey.

BLJR
01-09-2019, 08:11 PM
All the more reason to consider what is wanted in an arena at the fairgrounds. There should be an alternative arena for sports events tha t might interfere with the Thunder

Yes!!! The Baron's weren't successful because the Blazers supporters still had a bad taste in their mouths from a successful Blazers vanishing overnight, the Barons really weren't promoted as good, and tickets went up about $5 across the board.

ECHL in OKC would survive with the proper management. Like him or not, Lund was a genius with the Blazers, and knew how to keep interest and promote them. Let's build that arena at the state fair to handle a hockey team. Blazers played several games in the existing arena there and it worked.

BLJR
01-09-2019, 08:12 PM
And thanks to those that dug up the videos above. Good memories of the Tulsa and Wichita rivalries.

PaddyShack
01-10-2019, 08:03 AM
I don't think the Thunder take a hit when Russ leaves. That is part of the game, players get older and younger ones take over. They will find a star when Russ starts showing age. People are too crazy about the Thunder to leave it. Look at the waiting list for season tickets! Also, there are many people that currently don't follow the Thunder simply because they don't care for basketball. Hockey is just another entertainment option that definitely could drum up a decent following in the city. It just has to have smart leadership.

OKC Guy
01-10-2019, 08:26 AM
I don't think the Thunder take a hit when Russ leaves. That is part of the game, players get older and younger ones take over. They will find a star when Russ starts showing age. People are too crazy about the Thunder to leave it. Look at the waiting list for season tickets! Also, there are many people that currently don't follow the Thunder simply because they don't care for basketball. Hockey is just another entertainment option that definitely could drum up a decent following in the city. It just has to have smart leadership.

When Thunder go a few years in tank mode fans will not buy as many tickets. It happens.

Hockey has failed here over the decades. Fans donít support it fanatically enough over years to sell enough seats to sustain.

I would rather continue to focus on the one pro sport we have and not muddy waters with hickey.

I would be in support of soccer venue that can be used for other events. And fairgrounds is perfect location too. Close enough to downtown. Central to metro. Easy access with major Interstates. Could also hold HS playoffs/finals here. Host club soccer tourneys.

Hockey has been tried and failed here why chase it again? I had fun going to Blazer games but the hockey ship has sailed imo

jedicurt
01-10-2019, 09:09 AM
I'm sure they do and I think they should. The Thunder have done more to change the international perception of Oklahoma City than any other effort. The NBA makes OKC a Big League City, pure and simple. An ECHL Team puts us with Scranton/Wilkes-Barre as a place that will sell 4,000 seats at $10 per. Great entertainment, but let's find them a different place to play.

because use of a facility and extra 35 times a year is always a bad idea. this is why cities don't re-coup money on the stadiums they build... one event at an arena does not bring down the level of the other events. or are you saying San Antonio isn't a Big League City because the Spurs share and arena with the AHL Rampage?

this literally makes no sense... You are saying "Hey, i would rather have a stadium sit empty and unused most of the week, rather than let it say that entertainment in our city is sub-par"... but wouldn't having no event bring down that opinion even more than it being used for literally anything?

jedicurt
01-10-2019, 09:14 AM
On February 9, 2010, the American Hockey League Board of Governors approved of the relocation of the Oilers' inactive AHL franchise to Oklahoma City, after a five-year dormancy.[1]

After the team's inaugural season in 2010–11, the Barons finished in the bottom five in the league for average attendance, including worst in the league in 2012–13.[8] On December 18, 2014, the Oilers and Barons announced that the Barons would cease operations after the current season citing continued financial losses stemming from poor attendance.[9]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_Barons


Imo Hockey is not long term stable. Thunder don’t want any fans to bleed off either. Thunder have been blessed with competitive teams but in future once Russ is done they liklely take a hit. If hockey were here in down Thunder years it could bleed some fans.

Why risk it when hockey is the most unstable sport around. Teams are always on the move too.

Blazers used to draw big crowds but that was our big game in town then. The 2010 itteration competed with Thunder and ended up with poor fan showings and moved on. Its too unstable to invest any tax dollars in, much rather be thinking ahead to preserve Thunder. We need a future Thunder “Peake” plan while the team is still doing good. If we need to replace in 2030-35 timelone its not too early to think ahead.

Ironic how the original cost bid oversight (or undersight lol) meant it was built for $85m! The mods/upgrades cost more!

Streetcar cost more than original Peake did (Ford Center then).

Let Tulsa have hockey.

the blazers drew big crowds because it was free entertainment... hell i remember walking up to the box office to try and purchase tickets, and they wouldn't let me, cause they had free ones to give away

and what is the risk... i still don't understand how having hockey in the same arena affects the thunder in absolutely any way... does having WWE wrestling events affect the thunder? do concerts? Monster Truck? why do we let any events take place during the NBA season then????

i'm literally at a loss for how this affects the thunder in anyways, except maybe make the court temperature slightly cooler ( a survey a few years ago showed that basketball courts over ice had an average temp of 63 degrees, rather than 72... but that was actual temp of the court itself

jedicurt
01-10-2019, 09:18 AM
Yes!!! The Baron's weren't successful because the Blazers supporters still had a bad taste in their mouths from a successful Blazers vanishing overnight, the Barons really weren't promoted as good, and tickets went up about $5 across the board.

ECHL in OKC would survive with the proper management. Like him or not, Lund was a genius with the Blazers, and knew how to keep interest and promote them. Let's build that arena at the state fair to handle a hockey team. Blazers played several games in the existing arena there and it worked.

as an avid blazers fan, and a barons season ticket holder for every season, i can say yes the bad taste was a large part of the problem... and the ticket price increase for most blazers fans went up way more than $5... a vast majority of those amazing blazers crowds never ever paid for tickets... i went to some 50 blazers games their last few years, and literally tired to buy tickets, and was just handed free tickets at the box office.

yes the Barons were horribly managed, and never really stood a chance... but that was the fault of many things... Prodigal and the City not carrying about making any improvements to an aging Cox Center Arena until the ceiling collapsed. (note, knowing the city's long term plan to demo the site, makes sense to not make renovations). So the Barons were never going to be successful.

jedicurt
01-10-2019, 09:21 AM
When Thunder go a few years in tank mode fans will not buy as many tickets. It happens.

Hockey has failed here over the decades. Fans don’t support it fanatically enough over years to sell enough seats to sustain.

I would rather continue to focus on the one pro sport we have and not muddy waters with hickey.

I would be in support of soccer venue that can be used for other events. And fairgrounds is perfect location too. Close enough to downtown. Central to metro. Easy access with major Interstates. Could also hold HS playoffs/finals here. Host club soccer tourneys.

Hockey has been tried and failed here why chase it again? I had fun going to Blazer games but the hockey ship has sailed imo

break even point of ECHL over AHL is much lower... this is due to the contracts being much much less. so enough seats to sustain is also drastically reduced as well. if people knew about hockey and it wasn't in a building that most people don't know still holds events as they just use it to walk through when its cold... then it could easily in the Peake draw enough to keep it just above break even, and even bring in additional revenue to the city for 35 nights a year, rather than just have the arena sit empty

Jeepnokc
01-10-2019, 09:26 AM
Hockey has been tried and failed here why chase it again? I had fun going to Blazer games but the hockey ship has sailed imo

Hockey continues to grow as a sport in Oklahoma City, OKC has very active youth hockey, college hockey and adult hockey leagues as well as UCO and OU having teams. Will it grow enough to the point we could support another team...time will tell.

My son is on a travel team and we play at various hockey venues across the the KS/MO/AR/TX area. IMO what seems to work is a facility of approximately 6000-8000 seats instead of trying to fill something like the Cox Center (see http://silversteineyecentersarena.com/about/welcome/ ) The Barons averaged 3500-4000 per game while the Blazers averaged 8000-10000 per game. They had different theories on ticket sales where blazers gave away more free tickets.

One problem imo is OKC's facilities are too big or are too small (Blazers Ice Center/Artic Ice) The arena at the state fair (8500 seats) could work though but the focus there seems to be equine focused. OKC still has the Junior Blazers playing in the United Hockey Union (UHU) junior Western States Hockey League. Not sure of average attendance but they set a record in 2014 of 7100 people when they played at the Cox Center. They were at Blazers Ice Center but are moving to Artic this year.

OKC Guy
01-10-2019, 09:36 AM
Hockey continues to grow as a sport in Oklahoma City, OKC has very active youth hockey, college hockey and adult hockey leagues as well as UCO and OU having teams. Will it grow enough to the point we could support another team...time will tell.

My son is on a travel team and we play at various hockey venues across the the KS/MO/AR/TX area. IMO what seems to work is a facility of approximately 6000-8000 seats instead of trying to fill something like the Cox Center (see http://silversteineyecentersarena.com/about/welcome/ ) The Barons averaged 3500-4000 per game while the Blazers averaged 8000-10000 per game. They had different theories on ticket sales where blazers gave away more free tickets.

One problem imo is OKC's facilities are too big or are too small (Blazers Ice Center/Artic Ice) The arena at the state fair (8500 seats) could work though but the focus there seems to be equine focused. OKC still has the Junior Blazers playing in the United Hockey Union (UHU) junior Western States Hockey League. Not sure of average attendance but they set a record in 2014 of 7100 people when they played at the Cox Center. They were at Blazers Ice Center but are moving to Artic this year.

Blazers never competed with Thunder and the then “new” team did. Fan attendance went down when Thunder came.

More kids play soccer than hockey. My opinion is to chase soccer/multi use stadium before we chase hockey. Chasing both at once is a losing propostion in my opinion. Soccer is further along and growing faster.

jedicurt
01-10-2019, 09:44 AM
Blazers never competed with Thunder and the then “new” team did. Fan attendance went down when Thunder came.

More kids play soccer than hockey. My opinion is to chase soccer/multi use stadium before we chase hockey. Chasing both at once is a losing propostion in my opinion. Soccer is further along and growing faster.

okay. if that is where you are coming from, i can not disagree with that position. soccer probably would be more widely accepted... but like was mentioned in the post above yours, Youth and college hockey are big in OKC... just not widely talked about.

Roger S
01-10-2019, 10:34 AM
Hockey continues to grow as a sport in Oklahoma City, OKC has very active youth hockey, college hockey and adult hockey leagues as well as UCO and OU having teams. Will it grow enough to the point we could support another team...time will tell.
.

UCO and OU are consistently in the Top 25 in their leagues and UCO is a two time National Champion with a solid fan base and the new coach for OU has done a lot to help get more people in the seats for those games.

Dob Hooligan
01-10-2019, 12:01 PM
First - I'm 100% in favor of an ECHL team playing in the new arena at State Fair Park.

My recollection is that 25-30 years ago, when OKC was dead city, civic leadership decided to support downtown entertainment by renting the myriad to the CBA team OKC Cavalry for $1000 per game. Ray Miron and Brad Lund came in with the CHL concept and asked for the same deal for the Blazers. Which they got. This began the minor league sports war that the Blazers won in part because they had deeper pockets. When the Ford Center got built (as part of MAPS) the Blazers had the leverage to maintain a low cost rental agreement because they were the only game in town. This allowed them to sell tickets for $10 and less. Even thousands free to each game the last few years. The concessions for over 10,000 people helped make it profitable.

But, I think that is the only model that made hockey profitable in OKC and the arrival of the Thunder made it unfair to operate the arena in that fashion. I think the approach of The Thunder is that they pay a lot of money, they make a lot of money for the city, and they want other tenants to abide by the same rules.

jedicurt
01-10-2019, 12:04 PM
First - I'm 100% in favor of an ECHL team playing in the new arena at State Fair Park.

My recollection is that 25-30 years ago, when OKC was dead city, civic leadership decided to support downtown entertainment by renting the myriad to the CBA team OKC Cavalry for $1000 per game. Ray Miron and Brad Lund came in with the CHL concept and asked for the same deal for the Blazers. Which they got. This began the minor league sports war that the Blazers won in part because they had deeper pockets. When the Ford Center got built (as part of MAPS) the Blazers had the leverage to maintain a low cost rental agreement because they were the only game in town. This allowed them to sell tickets for $10 and less. Even thousands free to each game the last few years. The concessions for over 10,000 people helped make it profitable.

But, I think that is the only model that made hockey profitable in OKC and the arrival of the Thunder made it unfair to operate the arena in that fashion. I think the approach of The Thunder is that they pay a lot of money, they make a lot of money for the city, and they want other tenants to abide by the same rules.

based upon the previous discussions with a group trying to bring ECHL to OKC... they don't want other tenants to abide by the same rules... they just don't want other tenants...

Jeepnokc
01-10-2019, 04:40 PM
My opinion is to chase soccer/multi use stadium before we chase hockey. Chasing both at once is a losing propostion in my opinion. Soccer is further along and growing faster.

I agree that more people play soccer than hockey but that doesn't seem to translate to people attending games. Over the last two seasons....OKC Energy (soccer) averaged 4000-4200 attendance per game. Slightly more than the Barons and significantly less than the Blazers. Having hockey in a facility that easily is used for other options seems smarter than soccer stadium that doesn't translate to other uses as easily.

My only point though really is that Hockey is not dead in OKC and can still thrive if right model is set up. I do not think that ship has sailed.

OKC Guy
01-10-2019, 06:32 PM
I agree that more people play soccer than hockey but that doesn't seem to translate to people attending games. Over the last two seasons....OKC Energy (soccer) averaged 4000-4200 attendance per game. Slightly more than the Barons and significantly less than the Blazers. Having hockey in a facility that easily is used for other options seems smarter than soccer stadium that doesn't translate to other uses as easily.

My only point though really is that Hockey is not dead in OKC and can still thrive if right model is set up. I do not think that ship has sailed.

The challenge with comparisons is soccer is playing in an old dirt track and current HS stadium that won’t even allow team to sponsor tournements. Its in a residential area where parking and ingress/egress is difficult at best. No sidewalks in local residential areas where folks park. Compare to hocky had a much better setup and ample parkikg plus the whole of Bricktown for pre/post entertainment.

I have nothing against hockey I just think soccer is already here and has an established core fanbase which would grow if they had a better place to play. The numbers you listed are for a worst case scenario and hockey numbers were for a much much better setup.

I don’t think taxpayers would support chasing both concepts so at some point one of the two has to win out to get collaboration and concensus moving forward. If they basically “fight” each other for a vote then neither will win.

My point is I think we as a city will have to choose one or the other before the city can plan and present to citizenry for a possible vote. Hockey is not here now so its behind the curve and all one can do is use older numbers and make assumptions. But hockey has been tried here several times too, so its failure rate is more documented than soccer.

Laramie
03-24-2019, 06:00 PM
When you look at the model for the ECHL in Tulsa (no major league sports), it's not that different from OKC.


Facilities

Tulsa: Population (Urban 401,800, MSA 990,706)
BOK Center, opened 2008, capacity 17,096 ice hockey, construction cost 2008 $196 million
ONEOK Field, opened 2010, capacity 7,833, construction cost 2010 $39.2 million/$45 million in 2018 dollars
Stadiums:

University of Tulsa Chapman Stadium, Capacity 30,000
Hunter-Dwelley Stadium, Jenks, Capacity 10,000
Union Tuttle Stadium, Tulsa, Capacity 11,000

Oklahoma City: Population (Urban 643,648, MSA 1,383,737)
Chesapeake Energy Arena, opened 2002, capacity 15,152 ice hockey, construction cost 2002 $89.2 million 2010 upgrades $90 million.
Total construction $179.2 million & $8,865,000 from 2017 GOBonds for repairs & upgrades.
Chickasaw Bricktown Ballpark, capacity 10,000 construction cost 1998 $34 million/$52.3 million in 2018 dollars
Stadiums:

Taft Stadium (OKCPS), Capacity, 7,500
University of Oklahoma Gaylord Family Oklahoma Memorial Stadium, Capacity 86,112
University of Central Oklahoma Wantland Stadium: Capacity 10,000

Sports franchises minor & major:

Tulsa: USL AAA soccer, TL AA baseball, ECHL AA hockey,
Oklahoma City: NBA basketball, NBA G-League basketball, USL AAA soccer, PCL AAA baseball...

Oklahoma City is very capable of supporting ECHL AA hockey. We have 1 million to support one major league sport with 390,000 more residents to support minor league hockey, baseball & soccer.
Although ice hockey failed on the AAA level AHL Barons, it probably had more to do with the timing of the franchise's re-entry into our market and ownership. ECHL will have established rivalries in Tulsa & Wichita.

We should be ready following 2020 where our estimated populations will be: Urban 650,000 & MSA will be 1,400,000.

Laramie
03-24-2019, 08:06 PM
Oklahoma City Blazers vs. Tulsa Oilers

Highlights from the Oklahoma City Blazers vs. Tulsa Oilers hockey game at the Ford Center in Oklahoma City on January 10, 2003.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEHNsKp36RY
16,873 Watch Blazers defeat Oilers at the Ford Center


However, Tulsa's Jan. 10 game at Oklahoma City drew a CHL-record 16,873.

Oilers attendance increasing : https://www.tulsaworld.com/archives/oilers-attendance-increasing/article_3e18b094-8dfc-5a60-8eb6-42f758ee0504.html

Largest crowd to watch a hockey game in the Central Hockey League and in Oklahoma City was 16,929 at the Ford Center; Blazers lost to the Tulsa Oilers 6-2.

Tulsa tops Blazers: https://newsok.com/article/1889220/tulsa-tops-blazers

Dob Hooligan
03-24-2019, 08:48 PM
If you want hockey in OKC then get behind the new Fairgrounds Arena. City Leaders won’t let hockey play at Chesapeake Arena or Cox Center, but, they will back Fairgrounds Arena 100%. This is a total guess, but I’m sure I’m right.

Laramie
03-24-2019, 09:06 PM
If you want hockey in OKC then get behind the new Fairgrounds Arena. City Leaders won’t let hockey play at Chesapeake Arena or Cox Center, but, they will back Fairgrounds Arena 100%. This is a total guess, but I’m sure I’m right.

Agree 100% about the new State Fair Arena.

Lots of unanswered questions: Didn't know the Thunder kept hockey out of the Cox Center???

That's why IMO an Oklahoma City ECHL franchise could survive in a new 5,500 seat arena at the State Fair Park. Hope they decide to increase the maximum seating in the 8,000 to10,000 range.

Maybe they could make special consideration for an ECHL Oklahoma City vs Tulsa & Wichita rivalries and allow games at the Cox Center which has a seating capacity of 13,846.

Where will the Oklahoma City Blue play once the Cox Convention Center is demolished? Probably, the new State Fair Arena or Abe Lemons Arena on the campus of OCU.

Dob Hooligan
03-24-2019, 10:33 PM
I’m not claiming the Thunder wants hockey out of Cox.....but city leaders don’t want to be tied to an old and inefficient icing system that might break down in a very expensive manner at any time. Or that’s their story and they’re sticking to it.
I’m guessing they will be excited to host hockey and the Blue at Fairgrounds Arena while they are selling MAPS.

jedicurt
03-25-2019, 09:11 AM
I’m not claiming the Thunder wants hockey out of Cox.....

well i think it is more that the Thunder don't want to share and arena with hockey... and there are no long term plans for Cox... it probably will be destroyed in the next 5 years... so who would want to bring a team here if there is no mid term plan for a place to play.

borchard
04-09-2019, 09:34 AM
I would love to see the Blazers come back. The Fairgrounds would be fine with me, but I do hope the new arena they are talking about has more than 5,500 seats

Roger S
04-09-2019, 10:17 AM
Technically they are still here... just not at the ECHL level.

http://www.okcityhockey.com/

Jersey Boss
04-09-2019, 11:04 AM
I wonder as to what the arena requirements are for ECHL membership?

Jersey Boss
04-09-2019, 11:06 AM
Technically they are still here... just not at the ECHL level.

http://www.okcityhockey.com/
Not a professional level either. How does the play compare to college club level ?