Why isn't a MAPS aquarium on the COOP site viewed as a bailout to the land owners like the soccer stadium is? It seems pretty clear to me that any MAPS project that is planned for the COOP site will have massive land acquisition costs, including environmental cleanup, that many don't account for, dependent on whether they like the project. If the public is going to be expected to cleanup the COOP site, let's be honest about it and do it as a discrete project instead of through proxies with flashy renderings that will never be realized due to "unexpected" higher land costs.

the zoo planners with the coop developers had already taken this into account the land costs would not have been high ..

and the soccer stadium oppisiton has much more to do with the size and the cost than any thought of a "bail out"

the zoo planners with the coop developers had already taken this into account the land costs would not have been high ..

and the soccer stadium oppisiton has much more to do with the size and the cost than any thought of a "bail out"

Not to be flippant, but have they "taken this into account" the same way the owners and Sooner Investment took it into account and greatly underestimated the nature of the problem and associated costs?

I thought the COOP land had never changed hands. No one that knows what they are doing is going to close on that land without a development being imminent or some kind of guaranteed plan.

And I also dont know why the aquarium hasnt had more traction, seemed to have a good amount of interest.

I thought the COOP land had never changed hands. No one that knows what they are doing is going to close on that land without a development being imminent or some kind of guaranteed plan.

And I also dont know why the aquarium hasnt had more traction, seemed to have a good amount of interest.

That’s my understanding as well: the coop still own it and are using Sooner Investment as their development proxies. I think they likely discovered development there will be far more difficult due to the cost of environmental remediation and are looking for ways to leverage MAPS projects to assist with that cost.

I have already decided I will be voting NO on MAPS if they keep pushing soccer stadiums and fancy horse barns. If they put an aquarium like the one in Atlanta on the ballot I am all in. If they want to put a 100 mil. dollar aquarium on the ballot I say no. We need a first class regional draw in OKC.

Still say a resort type casino , hotel spa on that CO-OP site would bring tons of money and people downtown. It would prob take away a lot of business from the Norman and Shawnee casinos so the tribes prob. wouldn't go for it but it would bring in big tax revenue to OKC. No matter what people think of casinos they sure do pack the people in.

I have already decided I will be voting NO on MAPS if they keep pushing soccer stadiums and fancy horse barns. If they put an aquarium like the one in Atlanta on the ballot I am all in. If they want to put a 100 mil. dollar aquarium on the ballot I say no. We need a first class regional draw in OKC.

And when people find out there is a world class aquarium and a beautiful park next to the convention center, they will start organizing their conferences here, that's what San Antonio has been doing very well with their River Walk. How to make OKC richer? Bring over high paying jobs and make the visitors spend money, the rest will come. What else we can do with an aquarium? Fancy restaurants, bars and hotel, romantic wedding venues, a giant laboratory for kids. Aquarium is probably the most impactful MAPS project, it can make money 365 days a year.

Still say a resort type casino , hotel spa on that CO-OP site would bring tons of money and people downtown. It would prob take away a lot of business from the Norman and Shawnee casinos so the tribes prob. wouldn't go for it but it would bring in big tax revenue to OKC. No matter what people think of casinos they sure do pack the people in.

I am not sure there is a legal way the city can put a casino anywhere, but I could be wrong.

I am not sure there is a legal way the city can put a casino anywhere, but I could be wrong.

It would require an Act of Congress to designate what is currently non-tribal land into tribal-owned property. There’s a reason the casinos around OKC are in Norman and Shawnee.

An aquarium really hits all the points: local entertainment, tourist attractions, generates tax dollars. One of a few projects that could actually generate money for operations.

If someone wants to lead the charge on trying to get the citizens behind this project, PM me and I will support you and try to help out the best I can.

I think we should first seek help from a talented architect or urban planner who can help project the aquarium as a part of the thriving ecosystem, not just a stand alone building, that will help deliver the message better.

OKC made 100 acres on the site of American Indian Cultural Center Museum (AICCM) available as part of a deal for the Chickasaw Nation to develop and finish the museum.


Agreement takeaways

To complete the AICCM, leaders are looking at a $65 million price tag. Back in 2012, the city pledged $9 million to the project, which it plans to contribute to the next round of construction. Additionally, the state committed an additional $25 million in bonds when it passed the legislation initially granting the project to the city. Private contributions add the rest at $31 million.

The AICCM Foundation will operate the museum on behalf of the City, and the AICCM Land Development will develop the surrounding property. The Chickasaw Nation will contribute $14 million over the next seven years to support operational costs, including pre-opening costs. The Chickasaw Nation also committed its expertise and resources to help ensure budget targets are met.

Oklahoma Gazette: https://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/the-american-indian-cultural-center-gets-second-chance/Content?oid=2981073


Closing on the property will enable AICCM Land Development LLC to begin commercial development of more than 100 acres around the museum. Plans are to open the museum in 2021.

Oklahoman: Oklahoma City, Chickasaw Nation close land transaction for the American Indian Cultural Center and Museum: https://oklahoman.com/article/5583595/oklahoma-city-chickasaw-nation-close-land-transaction-for-the-american-indian-cultural-center-and-museum

It would require an Act of Congress to designate what is currently non-tribal land into tribal-owned property. There’s a reason the casinos around OKC are in Norman and Shawnee.

True, but Remington Park Racing & Casino is the exception; kinda grandfathered in.

Remington Park Racing & Casino, 1 Remington Place (58th & Martin Luther King Ave., north of the OKC Zoo) : http://www.globalgamingsol.com/


https://youtu.be/14_XzlyOKAM

View the impressive Youtube presentation of GGS Solutions in the video above.

Would be cool to have a mini Vegas strip, with every tribe getting their own casino/hotel. Could have a mini-museum included as well. Obviously not legally possible, but a fun fantasy.

It would require an Act of Congress to designate what is currently non-tribal land into tribal-owned property. There’s a reason the casinos around OKC are in Norman and Shawnee.

Think the legislature in OK would ever legalize gambling statewide? Think of the revenue they could generate.

Think the legislature in OK would ever legalize gambling statewide? Think of the revenue they could generate.

I hope not, there are plenty of tribal casinos as it is.

Can you imagine? A CBD shop on one corner and a casino on the other!

:-P

Would be cool to have a mini Vegas strip, with every tribe getting their own casino/hotel. Could have a mini-museum included as well. Obviously not legally possible, but a fun fantasy.

It will happen. Haven't you seen Logan??

I don't patronize casinos; if OKC were to open an area in our city (with state blessings) for a casino strip district, this place will boom. It would also boom with many other unanticipated concerns, like crime, drugs, homicides, bed bug epidemic, prostitution and diseases unknown to man.

If you worry about your husband or wife; this IMO is equivalent to exchanging a light stroke for a massive heart attack.

There's a host of concerns, you'd open Pandora's box if you legalized gambling in a major city of our size in the middle of the U.S.; not limited to the money and development. A panacea of problems our city wouldn't be prepared to handle.

Curuous as to what you base your strong negativity on? St. Louis and KC are located in the middle of the country without the sky falling in. There is a big casino just south of Norman and none of the dire consequences have visited our fair burg.

Curuous as to what you base your strong negativity on? St. Louis and KC are located in the middle of the country without the sky falling in. There is a big casino just south of Norman and none of the dire consequences have visited our fair burg.

Again, Jersey Boss, we're not talking about two-four casinos located in a major city scattered throughout. I mentioned a casino strip.

You would create a potential Las Vegas within the middle of the country. Winstar receives lots of support from the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex, it's not by any means located in a major city; yet it has grown into a huge complex--among the largest in the world. Winstar is a cluster of casinos within itself.

We have casinos in our Metro area as well as in the central city (Remington Park). They are scattered throughout.

If we provide a casino area strip where you have say 5-10 casinos with room to expand; you're going to attract who knows what. Especially situated on the I-40/I-35 corridor. You set aside a strip where casino hotels are established; you're going to grow towering hotels; patrons can walk from one casino to the next. Your development strip as with LV will grow.

OKC's geographic location with a strip would IMO be primed for more casino development.

OKC has given the Chickasaw Nation 100 acres as part of the agreement to develop the AICCM. You won't see this city approve a casino on that acreage.

Correct me if I'm wrong... IIRC, development of those 100 acres specifically included a 'no casino' agreement clause.

Hopefully, you will see a towering hospitality hotel or a large hospitality hotel complex operated by the Chickasaw Nation (south of the river) bigger than the 605 room Omni currently under construction.

OKC has given the Chickasaw Nation 100 acres as part of the agreement to develop the AICCM. You won't see this city approve a casino on that acreage.

Correct me if I'm wrong... IIRC, development of those 100 acres specifically included a 'no casino' agreement clause.

Hopefully, you will see a towering hospitality hotel or a large hospitality hotel complex operated by the Chickasaw Nation (south of the river) bigger than the 605 room Omni currently under construction.

the city has to no ability to approve or disapprove a casino

True, but Remington Park Racing & Casino is the exception; kinda grandfathered in.

Remington Park Racing & Casino, 1 Remington Place (58th & Martin Luther King Ave., north of the OKC Zoo) : http://www.globalgamingsol.com/


https://youtu.be/14_XzlyOKAM

View the impressive Youtube presentation of GGS Solutions in the video above.

keep in mind that Remington park is actually not a "Casino" it is a raceino ie it was made that way before it was owned by the tribe and it is not in federal trust status ..

that is also why it can only has slot machines and not table games ..

the city has to no ability to approve or disapprove a casino

So you're saying the Chickasaws could go thru with the development of the American Indian Cultural Center Museum (AICCM) and put a casino on the 100 acres the city gives them for completion of the Museum?

Biggest concern about development of the AICCM by the Chickasaws; they have their own cultural center museum just down the road in Sulphur, OK on 109 acres. OKC is giving them 100 acres near the AICCM to finish that project.

You're telling me that the City of Oklahoma have no legal means stop them from putting a casino on that land.

So you're saying the Chickasaws could go thru with the development of the American Indian Cultural Center Museum (AICCM) and put a casino on the 100 acres the city gives them for completion of the Museum?

no they can't but that has 0 to do with the city of OKC

no they can't but that has 0 to do with the city of OKC

Then who does it involve?

Then who does it involve?

The state...

If that's the case, could easily see the Chickasaw Nation putting a towering hotel and casino right (Similar to Tulsa's River Spirit Casino) next to a popular Smithsonian tourist attraction.


The state...

Okay! Thanks guys for the quick responses...

If that's the case, could easily see the Chickasaw Nation putting a towering hotel and casino right (Similar to Tulsa's River Spirit Casino) next to a popular Smithsonian tourist attraction.



Okay!

I don't know if all of Tulsa is federal trust lands or not. That is a benefit Tulsa might have.

As I understand it, here's the deal with casinos.

--The State of Oklahoma makes gambling illegal. Nobody can have a casino at all.
--The Federal government says "wait a minute, Indian tribes are kinda-sorta sovereign nations. They can do what they want on Indian land."
--So Indian casinos spring up, but it's gotta be on land that's held in federal trust, or some other such restriction.
--No land within the Oklahoma City area qualifies for that. The closest land that qualifies is where Riverwind is.
--The City of OKC can do nothing about it, because it's illegal to gamble in Oklahoma, period.
--The Indians get an exception because tribes and reservations and stuff, but it's gotta be on traditional Indian land.

The State of Oklahoma could change its laws, and then everybody could have a casino. But they haven't, so the only way to have a casino is if it's that federal trust land.

nm

You will need the next 21-24 years, 3 separate MAPS initiatives totaling $2.4 billion if you want to address all the concerns/problems of this city. Let's spend $400/$425/$450 million on neighborhoods on each of the next 3 MAPS projects with each totaling $800 million renewed at 6-8 year intervals.


Oklahoma City urban population: 2020: 650,000

MAPS 4, 5 & 6 initiatives (21-24 year plan., $2.4 billion, 8 year intervals):


$400 million on neighborhoods

Streets, Bridges, Planters, Streetlights, curves & sidewalks.
$200 million on capital improvement & related projects

New State Fair Arena, New Soccer-American Football Stadium
$150 million on previous MAPS capital improvement project expenses.

Civic Center Music Hall & Plaza, Chesapeake Energy Arena, Bricktown Ballpark, Scissortail Park, Bennett Events Center, Barns & State Fair Park venues.
$50 million in a contingency funds for factory-burden overhead.

Emergency roof repairs, infrastructure & high tech-cyber security upgrades



Oklahoma City urban population: 2028: 725,000

MAPS 5 (7 year, Renewal)


*$425 million on neighborhoods, $25 million growth increase

Streets, Bridges, Planters, Streetlights, curves & sidewalks...
*$175 million on capital improvement & related projects, $25 million decrease

New Soccer-American Football Stadium potential expansion, Various projects
$150 million on previous MAPS capital improvement project expenses.

Civic Center Music Hall & Plaza, Chesapeake Energy Arena, Bricktown Ballpark, Scissortail Park, Bennett Events Center, Barns & State Fair Park venues...
$50 million in a contingency funds for factory-burden overhead.

Emergency roof repairs, infrastructure & high tech-cyber security upgrades



Oklahoma City urban population: 2034: 805,000

MAPS 6 (6 year, Renewal)


*$450million on neighborhoods, $25 million growth increase

Streets, Bridges, Planters, Streetlights, curves & sidewalks...
*$150 million on capital improvement & related projects, $25 million decrease

Various projects
$150 million on previous MAPS capital improvement project expenses.

Civic Center Music Hall & Plaza, Chesapeake Energy Arena, Bricktown Ballpark, Scissortail Park, Bennett Events Center, Barns & State Fair Park venues...
$50 million in a contingency funds for factory-burden overhead.

Emergency roof repairs, infrastructure & high tech-cyber security upgrades

Note: MAPS 5, 6 are just suggested renewal plans; invest more money into neighborhoods & beautification. (*) changes...

As I understand it, here's the deal with casinos.

--The State of Oklahoma makes gambling illegal. Nobody can have a casino at all.
--The Federal government says "wait a minute, Indian tribes are kinda-sorta sovereign nations. They can do what they want on Indian land."
--So Indian casinos spring up, but it's gotta be on land that's held in federal trust, or some other such restriction.
--No land within the Oklahoma City area qualifies for that. The closest land that qualifies is where Riverwind is.
--The City of OKC can do nothing about it, because it's illegal to gamble in Oklahoma, period.
--The Indians get an exception because tribes and reservations and stuff, but it's gotta be on traditional Indian land.

The State of Oklahoma could change its laws, and then everybody could have a casino. But they haven't, so the only way to have a casino is if it's that federal trust land.

so the is all good info but let me give a litte bit more

the shawnee tribe (based in Miami Oklhaoma ) In 2000, Congress passed the Shawnee Status Act which reaffirmed the Tribe’s federal recognition status

that act also allowed them to aquired land to be put in federal trust status the catch was that their "historic" area is also the home of other existing tribes and they can't put any land into trust status without the concent of the cherokee nation or any other tribe

this actually allowed them to buy land anywhere in oklahoma and apply to put it into trust status .. (which they then tried to do just north of remington park)

lots in the city opposed this .. and so as a rider added to a transportation bill congress added a requirement that let the Governer of Oklahoma also have to sign off before that tribe (or any in the same situation) get land granted into trust status .

just a few years ago that same tribe got land in guymon for a casino approve and i believe it is under construction

The COOP site is perfect for a project of the size of the Kansas City Power & Light District.

Folks need to put a - between the o's to avoid confusion with the brewery and thier new location.

Mayor talks transit, MAPS 4 during live chat

http://digital.newsok.com/Olive/ODN/Oklahoman/get/DOK-2019-06-22/image.ashx?kind=block&href=DOK%2F2019%2F06%2F22&id=Pc0290500&ext=.jpg&ts=20190622132219
Crews continue work on the Omni Hotel and the new convention center as seen from the north lawn of Scissortail Park.

[CHRIS LANDSBERGER/THE OKLAHOMAN]

Mayor David Holt joined Steve Lackmeyer for OKC Live Chat on Friday. What follows is an abridged transcript of the conversation with readers. You can join Steve's Q&A's Fridays at 9:30 a.m. and submit your questions about the happenings in and around downtown Oklahoma City.

You have mentioned on social media that a bus rapid transit (BRT) network, not more streetcar, will possibly be included in MAPS 4. Doesn't BRT have higher fares than regular service? How will the regular bus network be improved for those who rely on transit and only make minimum wage? Would you consider reducing or eliminating fares for all transit services?

Holt: I'm not sure Embark has BRT fares figured out. I would defer to them. There is talk of BRT and better bus service in MAPS 4. Watch for the presentation in July for more detail as we're still hammering things out.

I looked at eliminating fares in MAPS 4, but the only way to do it through MAPS 4 is through an endowment, and it would have to be $100 million. I still think that's an interesting conversation to have in transit policy longterm. Fares are less than 10 percent of the transit budget.

The general opinion I'm hearing across the city is that most voters will not vote for MAPS 4 primarily due to large projects that only speak to a smaller subset of the city (State Fair enhancements, soccer stadium, etc.). Can we expect a large project that everyone can unite behind to better our city? Something where everyone feels like it is a boost to our city overall? A culmination of smaller projects that address homelessness, mental health, education, and beautification are great, but I fear they won't push the needle far enough to pass MAPS 4 overall.

Holt: Two myths in this question I'd like to address. The potential State Fair and multipurpose stadium projects are simply not going to be centerpieces of MAPS

4. They may or may not be included in some fashion, but when I play with the numbers, those two add up to less than 10 percent of a package. They have drawn some attention to this point because they have marketing budgets, but pay attention to the presentations this summer to see what MAPS 4 will really be about. Or just keep listening to me. I'm being very candid about all this in all my public comments.

The voters are absolutely laser-focused on the human and neighborhood needs of this city. I've seen thirdparty scientific polling data that demonstrates support for those issues in MAPS 4 as being off the charts. If we put together a package that addresses human and neighborhood needs, this community will absolutely embrace this MAPS. I am 100 percent confident of that.

Also, voter approval of MAPS in general is already off the charts even without defined projects. People know MAPS is great for our city. But we're not taking that for granted.

We're still being very thoughtful about the creation of this package so we can push that support even higher.

Growing concern for mental health stability; just want to say that there comes a time in all of our lives we could use some counseling. Many of us wait too long before we recognize that we need help or treatment. Hope Oklahoma City can craft a facility that will provide additional support for our community's future mental health needs.

Mental health treatment facility proposed


By Kayla Branch, Oklahoman Staff writer

A mental health treatment facility will be one of many proposals for MAPS 4, meeting the increased desire from residents to fund social service projects and help reform the struggling county jail.

Oklahoma County Commissioner Carrie Blumert is leading the effort to put together the proposal and said polls have shown residents ranked mental health as one of the top areas they’d like to see MAPS funding focus on.

Blumert said this type of facility has long been needed to help divert individuals from the county jail where funding is tight, conditions are far below ideal and many lowlevel offenders are held for long periods of time.

In January, an inmate who had waited months to be transferred to a mental health treatment facility took her own life in the jail.

“If you’re a person with addiction or mental illness, being in a jail environment is not the answer,” Blumert said. “We hope that if we help you get treatment and help you learn how to manage that and live in recovery, we won’t see those people back in the criminal justice system.”

The hope is for the facility to be the first place arrestees are taken so they can be assessed, and those who qualify can be diverted to a treatment program rather than being taken to the jail at all.

It’s estimated that at any given time 30% to 40% of the jail’s population could be diverted to a mental health or substance abuse treatment facility, according to numbers recently presented to the newly created Oklahoma County Jail Trust, which oversees the operation and management of the jail.

“Everyone is conscious of this reality — that the Oklahoma County jail is the county’s largest mental health hospital, except it’s not really a mental health hospital at all,” said Mayor David Holt, who helped facilitate the idea for this project.

Blumert is currently having conversations with various stakeholders such as the Department of Mental Health and the ACLU to decide which programs would be included in the facility. She said she would like to see the building placed next to a new county jail if and when that time comes, but those conversations are also still ongoing.

It’s unclear exactly how much this project would cost, but it’s estimated the building would cost in the tens of millions of dollars.

Details are still being put together for the proposal, and a concrete, final plan would not be completed unless the project was approved for MAPS.

Jail funding

Jail employees and elected officials believe funding constraints are part of the problem at the county jail for a variety of reasons.

Oklahoma County is the only county in the state — out of 77 — that does not have a sales tax specifically for its jail, which Sheriff P.D. Taylor says is a serious problem.

Taylor attributes a majority of operational issues, employee turnover and lack of quality services to underfunding.

But the likelihood of a new county sales tax is slim. Only Blumert would be willing to push for a new tax out of the three county commissioners, and conversations around MAPS 4, which is the city’s largest sales tax initiative, will likely table other tax talks for the time being.

And the overcrowding in the jail along with the high number of inmates with health needs increases the cost for services and detention officer patrols.

That’s where the mental health treatment facility comes in.

Commissioners Brian Maughan and Kevin Calvey have also said they are interested in and supportive of this project.

“It’s time to form a partnership involving Oklahoma City, Oklahoma County and the 19 suburban communities in our county to create a stateof-the-art facility to house and help those facing mental illness and addiction,” Maughan wrote in a February opinion article in The Oklahoman.

Calvey said the Oklahoma City Police Department is the largest driver of inmates booked into the jail, so it would make sense to have the city help find solutions.

“The county itself doesn’t have the budget to fund these kinds of things. … So I would hope that in pursuing this MAPS, there would be some things that directly or indirectly help with the jail,” Calvey said.

Blumert did warn that if the facility is approved to be included in MAPS, ongoing operational funding would be crucial for success.

“The big hiccup is that MAPS will only pay for the actual facility. So I have to, along with these other partners, build a model where we can seek other funding,” she said. “I’m trying to be very conscious of not throwing an idea together, building a building and then realizing we have no funding to maintain it.”

The proposal is scheduled to be presented at the Aug. 6 City Council meeting. The council will have the final say on what proposals are included in the MAPS 4 vote this December.

“This would be a positive step for the people of Oklahoma City, but it would also take one of the action items off of the jail’s list moving forward and assist in the overall jail solution that may ultimately involve a county tax vote of some nature,” Holt said.

“It would at least take this burden off of them and that is the intent — that we could address this limited part of all of the challenges that they face over there.”

Oklahoman, Monday, June 24, 2019

The city needs to tell the county government to stay the eff away. The county is incredibly poorly managed, and has had so many issues with corruption, that nobody trusts them. Here they are, sniffing around, looking to get their hooks in a pile of money.

The city needs to tell the county government to stay the eff away. The county is incredibly poorly managed, and has had so many issues with corruption, that nobody trusts them. Here they are, sniffing around, looking to get their hooks in a pile of money.

While I don't necessarily disagree with your point, mental health facilities such as the one proposed are still sorely needed for our community. If someone is having a mental breakdown, they shouldn't be thrown in county lockup. The question is how to pay for it's construction and operation.

The Oklahoma City-County Health department does a fairly decent job I think. And their facility on NW 63rd is very nice.

While I don't necessarily disagree with your point, mental health facilities such as the one proposed are still sorely needed for our community. If someone is having a mental breakdown, they shouldn't be thrown in county lockup. The question is how to pay for it's construction and operation.

Funding operations is the biggest question. Isn't that an ongoing issue with getting all of the senior aquatic centers up and going?

We are making decisions thru MAPS that will help our city grow (specifically quality of life). The more we grow, the more we increase our city's sales tax collections.

MAPS projects like the MAPS 4 proposed State Fair Coliseum & Soccer American football stadium will generate its own operating income thru agreements from lease-rental & food concession income. The stadium will generate more income as it secures events thru a firm like SMG management.

We can build a badly need mental health facility. As for operations, hire some full time grant writers (they will more than justify their own salaries), the city will qualify for a number of grant funding programs like SAMHSA (Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration) & U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) Grants to name a few.

Some MAPS Projects will generate income; none to my knowledge will be totally self-sustaining. The stadium & coliseum will have potential to generate out-of-state income (economic impact money) infused into our local economy .

the city has to no ability to approve or disapprove a casino

Exactly. Any prohibition would involve the state, not the city.

As I understand it, here's the deal with casinos.

--The State of Oklahoma makes gambling illegal. Nobody can have a casino at all.
--The Federal government says "wait a minute, Indian tribes are kinda-sorta sovereign nations. They can do what they want on Indian land."
--So Indian casinos spring up, but it's gotta be on land that's held in federal trust, or some other such restriction.
--No land within the Oklahoma City area qualifies for that. The closest land that qualifies is where Riverwind is.
--The City of OKC can do nothing about it, because it's illegal to gamble in Oklahoma, period.
--The Indians get an exception because tribes and reservations and stuff, but it's gotta be on traditional Indian land.

The State of Oklahoma could change its laws, and then everybody could have a casino. But they haven't, so the only way to have a casino is if it's that federal trust land.

ok so I just have no idea about this and I am curious. Could Oklahoma City somehow put land in to Federal Trust? Is that a thing?

Also, casinos downtown have a stench of desperation to me. It's the kind of thing that a city like Detroit does in a last ditch effort to get ANYONE to come downtown. I don't really think we need one, but I'm sure it would be popular / profitable.

ok so I just have no idea about this and I am curious. Could Oklahoma City somehow put land in to Federal Trust? Is that a thing?

Also, casinos downtown have a stench of desperation to me. It's the kind of thing that a city like Detroit does in a last ditch effort to get ANYONE to come downtown. I don't really think we need one, but I'm sure it would be popular / profitable.

read a few posts up

Ran across this and figured it has some significance due to local soccer stadium discussion as part of MAPS. This is quote a bit more aggressive though:

North Carolina FC, Kane Realty Propose $2 Billion Downtown Raleigh Development
By USLChampionship.com Staff, 06/25/19, 10:39AM EDT

STADIUM AND MIXED-USE DEVELOPMENT WOULD GENERATE $3.8 BILLION IN ECONOMIC ACTIVITY

RALEIGH, N.C. – John Kane and Steve Malik announced plans on Tuesday for a development that will transform the landscape of downtown Raleigh and become a hub for sports and entertainment in the community.

The project, which is being proposed by the North Carolina Football Club and Kane Realty Corporation, would address the demand for a large downtown sports and entertainment venue. It is expected to boost tourism, drawing additional visitors to Raleigh and Wake County, create jobs and revitalize an underused area of downtown Raleigh. The Downtown Raleigh Entertainment District, to be named Downtown South, will become an anchor for additional development and growth.

“This project holds tremendous promise for the City of Raleigh,” said Kane, CEO of Kane Realty Corporation. “It’s unlike anything I’ve worked on in my career. To be part of something that would enhance the lifestyle and overall appeal of our city while strengthening the local economy in such a meaningful way is powerful. I’m hopeful that the Raleigh City Council and Board of County Commissioners will enable this transformational project to become a reality.”

The proposed Downtown Raleigh Entertainment District sits on approximately 55 acres at downtown Raleigh’s southern edge at the intersection of South Saunders Street and Interstate 40. The development includes a multi-purpose, 20,000-seat open-air Downtown Sports & Entertainment Stadium surrounded by more than $1.9 billion in private development of street-level retail, office space, and housing. The stadium will become the home of the North Carolina Football Club, including its men's pro soccer team, North Carolina FC, and its women's pro soccer team, North Carolina Courage, and accommodate a variety of marquee events, including concerts, festivals, graduations, trade shows, and championship-level sporting events.

Read more with pics:

https://www.uslchampionship.com/news_article/show/1030926

Has anyone heard anything about a proposed new animal shelter as part of MAPS? I have a couple of friends very involved in animal rescue and they told me about this group interested in getting funding for this. They have a website I just visited: https://pawsformaps4.com/

I haven’t visited any local shelters, but I know they can be quite overcrowded and grim. This seems like a worthwhile use of some of the monies to me.

Has anyone heard anything about a proposed new animal shelter as part of MAPS? I have a couple of friends very involved in animal rescue and they told me about this group interested in getting funding for this. They have a website I just visited: https://pawsformaps4.com/

I haven’t visited any local shelters, but I know they can be quite overcrowded and grim. This seems like a worthwhile use of some of the monies to me.

I would give 100% of my support to a new animal shelter. Our current shelter is a sad and I don't envy the shelter workers who have to work there and provide care to animals in inadequate facilities.

Has anyone heard anything about a proposed new animal shelter as part of MAPS? I have a couple of friends very involved in animal rescue and they told me about this group interested in getting funding for this. They have a website I just visited: https://pawsformaps4.com/

I haven’t visited any local shelters, but I know they can be quite overcrowded and grim. This seems like a worthwhile use of some of the monies to me.

Now this is something we can agree on! Is the shelter still that awful place out on east 23rd?

I would support this. Maybe even move it closer to the core. South side of river somewhere?

I would support this. Maybe even move it closer to the core. South side of river somewhere?

if i remember correctly it would be just to the south of I40 just next to the north edge of the south part of the park

The facility near the lower park is for the humane society, which is a private operation:

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=44580&p=1063070#post1063070


The MAPS project would be to replace/improve the existing city animal shelter.

The two groups actually work together, but are separate.

The facility near the lower park is for the humane society, which is a private operation:

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=44580&p=1063070#post1063070


The MAPS project would be to replace/improve the existing city animal shelter.

The two groups actually work together, but are separate.

Yeah, I was kind of thinking about the Humane Society when I thought about relocating it somewhere in this area. I don't think we would want to put the Animal Shelter adjacent to the park though. The idea of having a centralize place to adopt a pet sounds nice though.

In many ways, the humane society is the happy face of animal control.

They take some, but not all, dogs and cats from the shelter, have a great foster program and then an excellent record of adoption.

They focus on the animals most likely to be adopted and try to get them quickly placed in good homes.

Ran across this and figured it has some significance due to local soccer stadium discussion as part of MAPS. This is quote a bit more aggressive though:

North Carolina FC, Kane Realty Propose $2 Billion Downtown Raleigh Development
By USLChampionship.com Staff, 06/25/19, 10:39AM EDT

STADIUM AND MIXED-USE DEVELOPMENT WOULD GENERATE $3.8 BILLION IN ECONOMIC ACTIVITY

RALEIGH, N.C. – John Kane and Steve Malik announced plans on Tuesday for a development that will transform the landscape of downtown Raleigh and become a hub for sports and entertainment in the community.

The project, which is being proposed by the North Carolina Football Club and Kane Realty Corporation, would address the demand for a large downtown sports and entertainment venue. It is expected to boost tourism, drawing additional visitors to Raleigh and Wake County, create jobs and revitalize an underused area of downtown Raleigh. The Downtown Raleigh Entertainment District, to be named Downtown South, will become an anchor for additional development and growth.

“This project holds tremendous promise for the City of Raleigh,” said Kane, CEO of Kane Realty Corporation. “It’s unlike anything I’ve worked on in my career. To be part of something that would enhance the lifestyle and overall appeal of our city while strengthening the local economy in such a meaningful way is powerful. I’m hopeful that the Raleigh City Council and Board of County Commissioners will enable this transformational project to become a reality.”

The proposed Downtown Raleigh Entertainment District sits on approximately 55 acres at downtown Raleigh’s southern edge at the intersection of South Saunders Street and Interstate 40. The development includes a multi-purpose, 20,000-seat open-air Downtown Sports & Entertainment Stadium surrounded by more than $1.9 billion in private development of street-level retail, office space, and housing. The stadium will become the home of the North Carolina Football Club, including its men's pro soccer team, North Carolina FC, and its women's pro soccer team, North Carolina Courage, and accommodate a variety of marquee events, including concerts, festivals, graduations, trade shows, and championship-level sporting events.

Read more with pics:

https://www.uslchampionship.com/news_article/show/1030926

Good post OKC Guy:

A reason why we need to get a soccer-American football stadium built before the potential cost of construction becomes an overwhelming issue. Raleigh is pushing for a 20K stadium that will be MLS ready.

Raleigh is very aggressive toward new businesses for corporate relocation & expansion; pieces that complement what they have in place like excellent higher learning institutions in North Carolina State & Duke along with some historical Black colleges.

Raleigh competes with intrastate rival Charlotte; together the state support NFL, NBA & NHL. N. C. is well rounded with quality of life support.

OKC has the MAPS 4 Stadium & Coliseum proposed with nice amenities.

My hope is we cover enough quality projects in MAPS 4 to get city-wide approval; continue to improve 'quality of life.' $1 billion or more in project initiatives may be up for approval in 2020.

Good post OKC Guy:

A reason why we need to get a soccer-American football stadium built before the potential cost of construction becomes an overwhelming issue. Raleigh is pushing for a 20K stadium that will be MLS ready.

Raleigh is very aggressive toward new businesses for corporate relocation & expansion; pieces that complement what they have in place like excellent higher learning institutions in North Carolina State & Duke along with some historical Black colleges.

Raleigh competes with intrastate rival Charlotte; together the state support NFL, NBA & NHL. N. C. is well rounded with quality of life support.

OKC has the MAPS 4 Stadium & Coliseum proposed with nice amenities.

My hope is we cover enough quality projects in MAPS 4 to get city-wide approval; continue to improve 'quality of life.' $1 billion or more in project initiatives may be up for approval in 2020.

The problem is, OKC has a hard time getting major private investments for things like that. And with the Omni basically owning downtown, a major hotel is out. Until OKC gets some major investment players, we will not be able to get developments like that downtown. So promising or basing MAPS votes on pie in the sky dreams and hopes is not a good way to go about it.

The problem is, OKC has a hard time getting major private investments for things like that. And with the Omni basically owning downtown, a major hotel is out. Until OKC gets some major investment players, we will not be able to get developments like that downtown. So promising or basing MAPS votes on pie in the sky dreams and hopes is not a good way to go about it.

Yes if they want to build a minor league soccer stadium and a bigger fancier horse barn let the people that will be profiting on these items pay 1/2 and charge a ticket tax for the rest. They shouldn't put the burden on the majority of OKC tax payers that will never use these places. Build them in Edmond- Moore or Norman and let those tax payers pay for them if they wish. They are going to end up killing maps if they keep this up.

Yes if they want to build a minor league soccer stadium and a bigger fancier horse barn let the people that will be profiting on these items pay 1/2 and charge a ticket tax for the rest. They shouldn't put the burden on the majority of OKC tax payers that will never use these places. Build them in Edmond- Moore or Norman and let those tax payers pay for them if they wish. They are going to end up killing maps if they keep this up.

Some comments:

I think MAPS is DOA as it is. Need to scale it down to 2-3 year approvals. Doing the massive 10 year MAPS worked when we had nothing but now we are more in the fine tuning vs major needs mode.

Not saying I an for stadium but your analogy is flawed. Streetcar is supposed to bring in more business so should the businesses along its route pay for it? Or convention goers pay for its building? Project are done for the community. I would say in a months time the soccer stadium would have more users than SC. Its also used for many other events like concerts and even graduations. Peake has returned the best value of all MAPS. Baseball stadium has been a great venue. Those owners did not pay so why now? Is it because of disliking that sport?

SC cost more than a soccer stadium would and the upkeep costs are tens times more as well. Most residents will never use it, tourists will.

Some comments:

I think MAPS is DOA as it is. Need to scale it down to 2-3 year approvals. Doing the massive 10 year MAPS worked when we had nothing but now we are more in the fine tuning vs major needs mode.

Not saying I an for stadium but your analogy is flawed. Streetcar is supposed to bring in more business so should the businesses along its route pay for it? Or convention goers pay for its building? Project are done for the community. I would say in a months time the soccer stadium would have more users than SC. Its also used for many other events like concerts and even graduations. Peake has returned the best value of all MAPS. Baseball stadium has been a great venue. Those owners did not pay so why now? Is it because of disliking that sport?

SC cost more than a soccer stadium would and the upkeep costs are tens times more as well. Most residents will never use it, tourists will.

I’m beginning to get the impression that you may not be a fan of the streetcar.

Oklahoma City is in a major transition period. We are competitive with other cities; MAPS has worked. Projects like the coliseum & stadium will generate enough income to pay for operating expenses as we've seen with Chesapeake Arena, Chickasaw Bricktown Ballpark and other MAPS projects open to the public including the Streetcar.


Crossroads Consulting, a nationally recognized expert in large public venue (LPV) consulting, found a new State Fair Park Coliseum would generate more than $230 million a year in direct spending and more than $400 million a year in total economic impact.

New projects at State Fair Park will increase our sales tax base with new money spent in our community which has a tremendous economic impact on growth--same is projected for our convention center complex under construction. Participate in the input process MAPS 4 has made available.

We are the 27th most populated city in the country; 5,000 more estimated residents than Las Vegas, they had 5,000 more residents than OKC in the 2010 census


27 Oklahoma City . . . 2019 - 649,021 2010 - 579,999 +11.90% Growth rate.
28 Las Vegas . . . . . . . 2019 - 644,644 2010 - 583,756 +10.43% Growth rate.

Our growth over the past 29 years (1990-2019) has been attributed to MAPS; it elevated OKC to a competitive level--now is not the time to put on the breaks.