View Full Version : Copper Theft



bucktalk
07-25-2018, 08:09 AM
Saw the news report of the continued problem from copper theft along I-40 and the problems it presents with lighting. I wonder why there isn't a strict policy from those who buy copper to determine where those who are selling salvaged copper attained it? How do copper thieves sell stolen copper so easily?

Pete
07-25-2018, 08:16 AM
The state did adopt a new law about 4 years ago:


The new law requires scrap dealers to be licensed through the state, begin writing checks to people selling over $1,000 of copper and verify that seller's identity.

Those caught pretending to be someone else would now face felony charges.


The bigger question is how other states and cities deal with this problem. It is not unique to OKC and in 25 years in California I never saw so many streetlights out as here.

bucktalk
07-25-2018, 08:29 AM
It seems like we're in a time warp here where we don't /won't tackle this on-going issue. Other states have it under control but we cant? I don't get it. Seems like strongly applied pressure needs to be toward copper scrap dealers. There must be a major loop hole in the process somewhere along the way. Ridiculous.

Pete
07-25-2018, 08:32 AM
I don't know if other states have it under control or if they are just more diligent about fixing the problems when they happen.

At least here, these things are left for years and seemingly indefinitely until a light was recently shined on this problem.

TheTravellers
07-25-2018, 08:51 AM
I don't know if other states have it under control or if they are just more diligent about fixing the problems when they happen.

At least here, these things are left for years and seemingly indefinitely until a light was recently shined on this problem.

Ha, good one! Wondering if the streetlights are still being reported/fixed or if that's tapered off back to the way it was?

OKCbyTRANSFER
07-25-2018, 10:51 AM
The state did adopt a new law about 4 years ago:




The bigger question is how other states and cities deal with this problem. It is not unique to OKC and in 25 years in California I never saw so many streetlights out as here.
Totally agree, most places I've been it's never been like this. Surely there is a way to stop the copper bleed from the lights (redesign, higher access panel, etc)

bchris02
07-25-2018, 11:15 AM
Totally agree, most places I've been it's never been like this. Surely there is a way to stop the copper bleed from the lights (redesign, higher access panel, etc)

It wasn't this bad here a few years ago.

Urbanized
07-25-2018, 02:51 PM
I don't at all want to be heartless about this as I know he surely had a family and people who loved him - though to me stealing copper is no different than stealing stop signs or other anti-social behavior with a potentially homicidal bent - but I was morbidly curious as to whether copper theft would drop dramatically when the guy electrocuted himself a few weeks ago at Reno and Eastern. In other words I wondered how many people are doing it and if it might have been mostly one person. It has to be a very specialized and risky task. The voltage is no joke.

whorton
08-02-2018, 10:19 AM
I don't know if other states have it under control or if they are just more diligent about fixing the problems when they happen.

At least here, these things are left for years and seemingly indefinitely until a light was recently shined on this problem.

-There would have been a light shined, but someone stole the wiring. . .

I take it the lights on I-40 are still not functioning?

Pete
08-02-2018, 10:22 AM
I don't know about I-40 but I was driving downtown last night near the Myriad Gardens and almost hit someone who walked out into the street where it was so dark I had a very hard time seeing them.

I made it a point to look and this was actually a Project 180 area and there were several lights out and one flickering.

whorton
08-02-2018, 10:25 AM
Realistically, many cities have turned to using copper clad steel cable, which has significantly less value for the thief. I honestly do not know what policy the street department or the state highway department has regarding the wiring but replacement costs would seem to dictate policy.

For the life of me, I still can't imagine how someone managed to steal the wiring for I-40 without being noticed. You don't just pull up to a access point and pull out hundreds of feet of large gauge electrical cable, yet someone did.

Apparently, Tulsa has the same problem:

https://ktul.com/news/local/street-lights-are-out-but-youre-still-footing-the-bill-how-can-we-prevent-wire-thefts

rte66man
08-02-2018, 02:26 PM
A possible solution:

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2018/07/25/elecsys-light-guard-pulse-copper-theft-technology.html

rezman
08-03-2018, 11:17 AM
In addition to the news stations just showing pictures of dark roadways because of this practice, they should go head and show photos of what could happen to you if the cops don't get to you first.

14820

Hondo1
08-03-2018, 12:08 PM
This would be a good issue for Mayor Holt to take up and get behind in a strong way. As a former state senator, I would think he would have the knowledge on how to get things done with the department of transportation in those areas that are its responsibility. The dark areas along so many streets and thoroughfares has a certain third-world quality to it. The lights on the north side of Hefner Dam along Hefner Road are still out. Very dangerous.

bucktalk
08-04-2018, 07:40 AM
Great idea!
This would be a good issue for Mayor Holt to take up and get behind in a strong way. As a former state senator, I would think he would have the knowledge on how to get things done with the department of transportation in those areas that are its responsibility. The dark areas along so many streets and thoroughfares has a certain third-world quality to it. The lights on the north side of Hefner Dam along Hefner Road are still out. Very dangerous.

OKCbyTRANSFER
08-04-2018, 08:30 AM
Drove up Western from the south last night, through the Wheeler District (dark), over the river & I-40 (dark), Western to the detour (dark), east on 5th to Walker (dark), up Walker to Midtown (dark until Sheridan, some lights on through to Main, but quite a few we're out). Just not a very good impression if you're using one the two ways coming into the city. Glad I knew where I was going, just sad. Even in areas they work are supposed to be improved upon (P-180) many lights down town are still out.

bchris02
08-05-2018, 08:28 PM
I don't know if other states have it under control or if they are just more diligent about fixing the problems when they happen.

At least here, these things are left for years and seemingly indefinitely until a light was recently shined on this problem.

It's a relatively recent thing here for it to be this bad. Up until the past year or so, most of the lights were working other than the new area of I-40 near the skydance bridge, which hasn't worked since I moved back here in 2012.

Rover
08-05-2018, 09:27 PM
Copper theft is an international epidemic. And thieves are getting electrocuted all over the place. Some areas are shifting to aluminum wires.

Hondo1
08-06-2018, 11:46 AM
I have no idea how much damage copper theft causes to the light fixtures or how much stolen copper has to be replaced. I'm sure it's probably all significant but I wonder why does it take so long to get the service restored? Is there no copper available to replace what was stolen? You would think ODOT or whomever would fast track the repairs for safety sake at the very least.

whorton
08-08-2018, 01:23 PM
You would think ODOT or whomever would fast track the repairs for safety sake at the very least.

I suspect the issue is like that of potholes. If someone has reported it to the city, and they have failed to address the issue in a timely manner, the city incurs liability.

Just one good wreck on a dark section of I-40 through the center of town, would make for an expensive lawsuit. Especially when the issue is well known and has been reported on multiple media venues.

SOONER8693
08-08-2018, 01:55 PM
Realistically, many cities have turned to using copper clad steel cable, which has significantly less value for the thief. I honestly do not know what policy the street department or the state highway department has regarding the wiring but replacement costs would seem to dictate policy.

For the life of me, I still can't imagine how someone managed to steal the wiring for I-40 without being noticed. You don't just pull up to a access point and pull out hundreds of feet of large gauge electrical cable, yet someone did.

Apparently, Tulsa has the same problem:

https://ktul.com/news/local/street-lights-are-out-but-youre-still-footing-the-bill-how-can-we-prevent-wire-thefts
Had to go to Tulsa Monday night to pick up the wife at the airport. She couldn't get on a flight to OKC. Flight was due in about 11 p.m. So, left OKC about 9. Live in far sw OKC, so drove through OKC and Tulsa both up and back. I would estimate 75% of the lights on the interstate and freeways were out/dark. In many stretches and especially the huge interchanges it is very dangerous and hard to see very well at all. It is unimaginable that the state/ODOT can't remedy this situation and let's it go on and on like it is. A major black eye for OKC, Tulsa, and the state of OKla for people from out of state. And, like I said VERY DANGEROUS for everyone.

Rover
08-08-2018, 02:15 PM
Had to go to Tulsa Monday night to pick up the wife at the airport. She couldn't get on a flight to OKC. Flight was due in about 11 p.m. So, left OKC about 9. Live in far sw OKC, so drove through OKC and Tulsa both up and back. I would estimate 75% of the lights on the interstate and freeways were out/dark. In many stretches and especially the huge interchanges it is very dangerous and hard to see very well at all. It is unimaginable that the state/ODOT can't remedy this situation and let's it go on and on like it is. A major black eye for OKC, Tulsa, and the state of OKla for people from out of state. And, like I said VERY DANGEROUS for everyone.

Then I guess it is a black eye for highway and city administrators all over the country. You act like this is isolated to OK. It is not.

SOONER8693
08-08-2018, 02:28 PM
Then I guess it is a black eye for highway and city administrators all over the country. You act like this is isolated to OK. It is not.
So, I guess you think that makes it acceptable here too? If that be the case you are wrong.

Rover
08-08-2018, 03:22 PM
So, I guess you think that makes it acceptable here too? If that be the case you are wrong.

It isn't acceptable anywhere. But the reality is that it is causing problems all over, and not because people are ignoring the problem or acting irresponsibly in addressing the problem. It is a world wide problem lots of communities are dealing with and haven't yet found a good way of dealing with.

Pete
08-08-2018, 04:19 PM
Then I guess it is a black eye for highway and city administrators all over the country. You act like this is isolated to OK. It is not.

I don't remember this being any sort of issue in California.

When I moved back here I noticed the difference immediately, and commented on it.

OKCbyTRANSFER
08-08-2018, 08:06 PM
I've seen in other states where areas without lights had more reflectors, along the interstates, to guide you against hazards. Even the paint striping glowed better at night. Seemed to make the exits more visible

Rover
08-08-2018, 09:26 PM
I don't remember this being any sort of issue in California.

When I articles dating back moved back here I noticed the difference immediately, and commented on it.

You may not have noticed, but it’s been a problem in California for over a decade.

According to the NCIB, The five leading states for the thefts are Ohio, Texas, Georgia, California and Illinois.

There are articles dating back at least 10 years about hundreds of street lights out in LA due to wire theft. And all over California.

From the San Jose paper:
Copper wire worth $460,000 stolen from Fremont, CA street lights

“The The City of Freemont, CA has been hit hard over the past seven months. Copper theft is running rampant in California. “

Articles can be found from all over CA and the world.

Hondo1
08-09-2018, 12:08 PM
I don't doubt copper theft is an epidemic but the way our state and city responds to it is quite frankly alarming to say the least. You would think because it happens so frequently, the authorities would have a fast-track plan to get the lights up and running as soon as possible but the outages just linger month after month after month. Maybe a call to the mayor's office, OG&E or ODOT might get someone's attention. FWIW, I called the city's action line to report the outage of the lights along Hefner Road along the north side of the Lake Hefner dam. "Not the city's responsibility. Call OG&E." I called OG&E and amazingly the (very nice) lady in customer service had no idea the lights were out. I can't believe the outage was not known by OG&E but, what do you do? I went ahead and received a case number and was told to check back in 10 days if I don’t see the issue being addressed.

TheTravellers
08-09-2018, 01:07 PM
I don't doubt copper theft is an epidemic but the way our state and city responds to it is quite frankly alarming to say the least. You would think because it happens so frequently, the authorities would have a fast-track plan to get the lights up and running as soon as possible but the outages just linger month after month after month. Maybe a call to the mayor's office, OG&E or ODOT might get someone's attention. FWIW, I called the city's action line to report the outage of the lights along Hefner Road along the north side of the Lake Hefner dam. "Not the city's responsibility. Call OG&E." I called OG&E and amazingly the (very nice) lady in customer service had no idea the lights were out. I can't believe the outage was not known by OG&E but, what do you do? I went ahead and received a case number and was told to check back in 10 days if I don’t see the issue being addressed.

Why the hell can't OG&E and OKC get it together and actually do something about this? It's been talked about in Council meetings, by tons of people all over the internet, in real life, etc. Why is it being left up to individual citizens to report individual lights out in the massively sprawled out city? Does any agency actually give half a **** about it? If not, why not? What else can we do except just keep reporting lights that are out? I have much much better things to do with my life than to do OG&E's job for them, because honestly, there could be a dozen people working full-time (8 hours per day (or night)) for probably months, to report on all the lights out and then following up to make sure they're fixed.

I've personally talked to my city councilman (not him, but his admin/point person) and that was around the time that it first came up with the guy that started reporting/noting them out downtown, and he basically said "yeah, it's a problem, I'll pass the info on" and then Couch, in a council meeting, said "yeah, we can pass on the info to OG&E when we get reports", and that was it. Apparently OKC has walked even that back, and give even less of a **** than they did when first notified of this huge problem.

So, again, what can we make the city or OG&E do to make them do their jobs? Do we just give up and say "That's the way it's always been, always will be, deal with half-***ed infrastructure (as we do in so many cases - bike lanes, pavement striping/reflectors, sidewalks, crosswalk paint striping, ad nauseum)"? Or is there *any* chance, however small, of getting things right?

Pete
08-09-2018, 01:24 PM
I don't doubt copper theft is an epidemic but the way our state and city responds to it is quite frankly alarming to say the least.

This is my issue.

I understand copper theft happens everywhere but I can never remember driving a stretch of any road in California where I was struck by the darkness; no doubt because they generally fix these problems as they occur.

I used to run a great deal after dark and I can assure you that there were always plenty of street lights.

Also, I wasn't back here a month before I started remarking how hard it was to see on the roads here. I still can't believe that the exit to the OKC Boulevard as you head east on I-40 is 100% devoid of lights and has been for at least 2 years. It's incredibly dangerous and was shocked by it the first time I went that way at night. ODOT / the city is fully aware and has just said something about fixing it when the entire boulevard is complete. No matter that they will have been out by that time for 4 years or more.

bchris02
08-09-2018, 01:36 PM
Also, I wasn't back here a month before I started remarking how hard it was to see on the roads here. I still can't believe that the exit to the OKC Boulevard as you head east on I-40 is 100% devoid of lights and has been for at least 2 years. It's incredibly dangerous and was shocked by it the first time I went that way at night. ODOT / the city is fully aware and has just said something about fixing it when the entire boulevard is complete. No matter that they will have been out by that time for 4 years or more.

That area has been dark since I moved back here in 2012. I always figured they were waiting for the boulevard to be completed before fixing it.

Plutonic Panda
08-09-2018, 06:22 PM
Then I guess it is a black eye for highway and city administrators all over the country. You act like this is isolated to OK. It is not.
Another great post from Rover here to save the day with his “this happens in other states” response.

Plutonic Panda
08-09-2018, 06:23 PM
You may not have noticed, but it’s been a problem in California for over a decade.

According to the NCIB, The five leading states for the thefts are Ohio, Texas, Georgia, California and Illinois.

There are articles dating back at least 10 years about hundreds of street lights out in LA due to wire theft. And all over California.

From the San Jose paper:
Copper wire worth $460,000 stolen from Fremont, CA street lights

“The The City of Freemont, CA has been hit hard over the past seven months. Copper theft is running rampant in California. “

Articles can be found from all over CA and the world.I haven’t noticed it being an issue out here either, but it sure stands out in Oklahoma.

Rover
08-09-2018, 08:57 PM
I haven’t noticed it being an issue out here either, but it sure stands out in Oklahoma.

It’s been a problem in Cali for over a decade.

OKCbyTRANSFER
08-09-2018, 09:52 PM
I reported several lights out this week to the city, as they are on traffic light poles and made that clear so they knew it the city's responsibility to check it, response was OG&E issue, but then assigned to traffic ops.
I wish the state would fix the lights on the green overhead signs that have lights, I never see those lit up

TheTravellers
08-09-2018, 10:17 PM
I reported several lights out this week to the city, as they are on traffic light poles and made that clear so they knew it the city's responsibility to check it, response was OG&E issue, but then assigned to traffic ops.
I wish the state would fix the lights on the green overhead signs that have lights, I never see those lit up

I thought I had read that they're staying unlit because the reflectivity was good enough that they didn't need to spend the time/money maintenance-wise on them, and found this PDF that kind of supports that (for rural areas, definitely, but on-the-fence for urban):

shorturl.at/cnoxV

Plutonic Panda
08-09-2018, 11:58 PM
It’s been a problem in Cali for over a decade.
Whatever bro I live here and I don’t see as many lights out as I do in OKC. I ain’t tryna to talk about copper theft and whatever, I’m referring to the amount of lights out. All you ever seen to do is parade OK by your typical “other states have this problem too” crap. Seriously, Oklahoma is a great state that has a lot to offer, but trying to throw it in a league of states that have problems like Oklahoma does won’t help it. It doesn’t matter what benifits those states like Cali have, because I bet you Oklahoma doesn’t have them. Focus on making the state better, not getting pissed because others are pointing out issues.

OKCbyTRANSFER
08-10-2018, 12:43 AM
Ah, cool, good point. I agree in rural areas, in the City, like at interchange areas, lights on. Thanks Plu Pan

TheTravellers
08-10-2018, 11:08 AM
So does anybody know if OG&E or OKC or ODOT is legally required to keep the streetlights lit? Anybody have any idea where I could start looking for OG&E's corporate charter, or whatever the hell would mention something like this (what OG&E is required to do)? Same question for OKC/ODOT? Wondering if the OCC would be a place to start to try to get some kind of traction/legal action going on to force this issue?

Plutonic Panda
08-10-2018, 01:47 PM
Ah, cool, good point. I agree in rural areas, in the City, like at interchange areas, lights on. Thanks Plu PanI’ve noticed that in large California cities, they only light most freeways around interchanges. That’s it. I’m guessing it has to do with reducing light pollution or energy savings. But I drive around A LOT, and the lights they do have, almost always seem to be working even in construction zones with some exceptions.

PaddyShack
08-10-2018, 01:58 PM
My wife and I were up in Tulsa Wednesday night for the Tulsa Roughnecks vs Energy FC game and on the way back I noticed how much of their highway system is dark. I believe theirs to be even more dangerous because their interstate layout is like a pile of spaghetti and those darn left hand exits, haha.

Rover
08-10-2018, 03:06 PM
Whatever bro I live here and I don’t see as many lights out as I do in OKC. I ain’t tryna to talk about copper theft and whatever, I’m referring to the amount of lights out. All you ever seen to do is parade OK by your typical “other states have this problem too” crap. Seriously, Oklahoma is a great state that has a lot to offer, but trying to throw it in a league of states that have problems like Oklahoma does won’t help it. It doesn’t matter what benifits those states like Cali have, because I bet you Oklahoma doesn’t have them. Focus on making the state better, not getting pissed because others are pointing out issues.

I agree LA is mecca.

OK is going through now what others have already gone through. They will figure it out, just as some others have. Of course, they should do a better job, but in the context of the remarks being made, I was pointing out that this is a bigger problem and lots of people are working on answers (shock an surprise, even in the golden state). Should we insist on doing better here, of course.

Plutonic Panda
08-10-2018, 03:48 PM
I agree LA is mecca.

OK is going through now what others have already gone through. They will figure it out, just as some others have. Of course, they should do a better job, but in the context of the remarks being made, I was pointing out that this is a bigger problem and lots of people are working on answers (shock an surprise, even in the golden state). Should we insist on doing better here, of course.They don’t have to go through it though, that’s the thing. As I said I drive a lot for, mainly for recreational purposes, and do not see the as many lights out in most of the cities I frequent as OKC has. I don’t go to Tulsa much, so I wouldn’t know about them. I do know that other cities have found a solution and surely OKC could send someone to figure it out. I don’t know how that would work, but I’m sure it could be done.

I also think the biggest issue is accountability, not copper theft. You will always have thieves and low life’s around destroying and stealing things, but it’s part of the game. Busting them is only part of it. As said, tons of other cities don’t have this problem so there has to be something they are doing different. There are smart technologies that can be implemented into street lights that alert the city or power company if a light has gone out or they train city workers to report burnt out lights. The electrical systems can be built differently to make it harder for thieves to get to the copper. Whatever the solutions are, they are there. Why should have to find them out when others already have?

We’ll see how well OkDOTs “new and improved” lighting system they are building on the crosstown works as they claim it will have new technology that should prevent copper theft. Hopefully it works, but then there is the other issue of OGE and the city just telling people to report it via the OKC app or call the number which people shouldn’t have to do. It’s ridiculous and essentially places the blame on ordinary citizens not taking time out of their day to report something the city should already know about.

Rover
08-10-2018, 08:39 PM
LA is spending $65 million to fight the problem. Maybe we can do a Maps 5

bchris02
04-26-2019, 10:36 AM
Did copper thieves get the streetlights in the Paseo? Most of them have been out for the past couple of weeks.

bucktalk
08-05-2019, 10:58 AM
Drove from downtown, following the Hamilton performance, got on to I-40 and the darkness on most of connecting routes from downtown is unreal. I understand strides are in place to improve this ongoing problem but dang....it's ridiculous how dark our downtown highway system is. Dangerous and a little bit embarrassing.