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PhiAlpha
06-20-2018, 01:14 PM
Yikes. In one of Jim Galogly's private speeches he mentioned that Boren did a great job of raising funds to build up the campus but that he didn't come up with the revenue streams to operate and maintain all the campus additions and that one of his primary directives would be to build up funding for that purpose. Based on that, I knew there were definitely some funding issues, but I had no idea it was this bad. The board of regents' selection of a business person who transformed a large bankrupt company into a successful one over someone from academia or another field is starting to make a lot more sense. What a mess.

https://newsok.com/article/5598666/university-of-oklahoma-facing-1-billion-debt-inadequate-operating-cash

Midtowner
06-20-2018, 01:19 PM
We've gone through a decade of austerity where higher education is concerned. We have an electorate which questions the need for us to fund higher education whatsoever. Higher education needs to sell its value to the public--particularly the non-college-educated public. I would imagine the financial outlook of other universities is similar or worse. I've seen a lot of construction on campuses over the last decade. It sure seems problematic to be adding those new facility costs amid funding cuts.

jedicurt
06-20-2018, 01:21 PM
I can speak on the faculty raises... I worked there from 2005 to 2012 and never received a single raise. I hope he can turn it around and put the money where it needs to be, rather than just deciding to keep raising tuition, like what has been done

PhiAlpha
06-20-2018, 01:31 PM
I can speak on the faculty raises... I worked there from 2005 to 2012 and never received a single raise. I hope he can turn it around and put the money where it needs to be, rather than just deciding to keep raising tuition, like what has been done

He said in the article that he plans to figure out funding sources that don't put the additional cost on the students, so hopefully that happens.

SoonerDave
06-20-2018, 01:57 PM
I have to believe a review of salaries of professors in excess of $250,000 annually might want to be reviewed. I was absolutely stunned when I saw the list of profs *in one college alone* within OU drawing that kind of money.

Pete
06-20-2018, 02:09 PM
This may help to explain why they chose him -- a businessman, not an academic or politician -- to be the new head of the university.

PhiAlpha
06-20-2018, 02:13 PM
I have to believe a review of salaries of professors in excess of $250,000 annually might want to be reviewed. I was absolutely stunned when I saw the list of profs *in one college alone* within OU drawing that kind of money.

I can think of at least a few long tenured professors that I had during my time at OU who, based on effort, absolutely did not deserve the six figure salary they were undoubtably making. Achieving tenure unfortunately seems to make some professors way too complacent over time.

CloudDeckMedia
06-20-2018, 02:14 PM
Galogly has a history of large financial support to the university, and of managing successful turnarounds. He’s the perfect guy to ask others to financially support his plans to turn around OU.

PhiAlpha
06-20-2018, 02:14 PM
This may help to explain why they chose him -- a businessman, not an academic or politician -- to be the new head of the university.

No doubt.

ultimatesooner
06-20-2018, 02:59 PM
this is because the jackass Borens had access to the checkbook, maybe if Molly didn't have to make every single construction project infinitely more expensive this wouldn't have happened

TheTravellers
06-20-2018, 03:09 PM
Kind of appropriate to post this here, apologies if not. Quite an interesting, if depressing, read, read it a while back, was saving it for posting somewhere...

https://junctrebellion.wordpress.com/how-the-american-university-was-killed/

Ward
06-20-2018, 03:40 PM
Aarrgh. Wrong line. Sorry. Disregard.

onthestrip
06-20-2018, 06:21 PM
I have to believe a review of salaries of professors in excess of $250,000 annually might want to be reviewed. I was absolutely stunned when I saw the list of profs *in one college alone* within OU drawing that kind of money.

And what do you want to bet many of these profs don’t do much, or any, professing. Most of it is done by TA’s and graduate students it seems.

mugofbeer
06-20-2018, 06:38 PM
It will be a tightrope walk to review salaries while being able to attract quality professors. You can't have a great educational institution without decent pay. Often, certain quality professors may be there for research or graduate -level coursework rather than teaching undergraduates.

dankrutka
06-20-2018, 10:53 PM
Plenty of overworked and underpaid professors at OU too. I know many faculty in education — not the biggest money maker — and they are certainly underpaid. Just pointing it out as a contrast to any overpaid profs.

u50254082
06-20-2018, 10:58 PM
This is just one case. Higher ed in general is bloated and anyone who follows campus SJW culture knows that rather dumb/gullible young people are going into massive debt for degrees that are worth nothing in the real world. For christ sake you can't even have opposing or controversial viewpoints on certain ivy league campuses now. Defund it all, let it crash, and then let it attract the people who want to go there for the educational experience and not just a 4-8 year pause from having to get a real life with real problems.

Mr. Blue Sky
06-20-2018, 11:41 PM
This is just one case. Higher ed in general is bloated and anyone who follows campus SJW culture knows that rather dumb/gullible young people are going into massive debt for degrees that are worth nothing in the real world. For christ sake you can't even have opposing or controversial viewpoints on certain ivy league campuses now. Defund it all, let it crash, and then let it attract the people who want to go there for the educational experience and not just a 4-8 year pause from having to get a real life with real problems.

OK. That's full of broad strokes and assumptions. I'm certainly no SJW, but I know that controversial political activity on campus has been going on since the term campus was coined at Princeton in the 18th century. I don't want to be argumentative, but why in this thread, skwillz? It seems right in line with what we are becoming as people.

I think Galogly is the right person at just the right time. I hope he can turn this rather sobering news around.

rtz
06-21-2018, 04:30 AM
Do we need it? How many colleges are needed? Is the purpose of OU to make money or just break even? If a billion is nothing, maybe 2 billion is nothing either? Maybe 36 million a year is sustainable? Close it down for a year or ten and compare and contrast how things are to how things were. Oh that's right; what about the football team!?

The education system needs a total overhaul. It really doesn't take 12 years to learn how to read, write, and do basic math. It needs to be like how it is in other countries. At some point; one chooses to either learn a trade; or go on for further study and academia.

https://www.bankstreet.edu/school-children/admissions/progressive-education/volume-i/the-fall-and-rise-of-the-8th-grade-school/

OKCretro
06-21-2018, 07:25 AM
Boren's response,

https://newsok.com/article/5598772/university-of-oklahoma-president-david-boren-says-ou-debt-is-large-but-comparable-to-similar-public-universities

Urbanized
06-21-2018, 07:31 AM
Well this is a bit of an unexpected row. Interesting.

dankrutka
06-21-2018, 07:33 AM
This is just one case. Higher ed in general is bloated and anyone who follows campus SJW culture knows that rather dumb/gullible young people are going into massive debt for degrees that are worth nothing in the real world. For christ sake you can't even have opposing or controversial viewpoints on certain ivy league campuses now. Defund it all, let it crash, and then let it attract the people who want to go there for the educational experience and not just a 4-8 year pause from having to get a real life with real problems.

First, college debt is largely a function of faltering public support and legislation. Second, you can’t get tons of jobs — and wouldn’t be prepared going for them — without many degrees. Sure, not every program is perfect, but I work my butt off preparing teachers and spend tons of time researching the effectiveness. Third, The idea that you can’t have opposing views on college campuses is more political narrative than reality. The assumption that college campuses are simply bastions of one political ideology is just untrue.

The American university system is one of the institutions that has set us apart around the world historically. Abandoning them is a massive mistake.

Pete
06-21-2018, 07:35 AM
^

Completely agree, Dan.

Also wanted to point out that almost all the great start-ups and very well paid high-tech jobs are grouped around great American universities, and that is not a coincidence.

And also not a coincidence that American business completely rules the globe.

dankrutka
06-21-2018, 07:48 AM
The education system needs a total overhaul. It really doesn't take 12 years to learn how to read, write, and do basic math. It needs to be like how it is in other countries. At some point; one chooses to either learn a trade; or go on for further study and academia.

https://www.bankstreet.edu/school-children/admissions/progressive-education/volume-i/the-fall-and-rise-of-the-8th-grade-school/

You’re describing — at best — preparing workers and citizens for the economy of a century ago. At worst, you seem to think universities prepare students for unskilled labor or simple jobs that can be learned quickly. No, I don’t agree that we need fast food universities with diplomas available for drive thru pickup.

jedicurt
06-21-2018, 07:49 AM
Boren's response,

https://newsok.com/article/5598772/university-of-oklahoma-president-david-boren-says-ou-debt-is-large-but-comparable-to-similar-public-universities

maybe it's just me... but he throws out the 6% as being a low number... but to me, having debt payments be 6% of your total operating budget seems high to me.

BLJR
06-21-2018, 07:55 AM
Not good timing with the head football coach raise and the new softball stadium announced this week.......

Pete
06-21-2018, 07:57 AM
Not good timing with the head football coach raise and the new softball stadium announced this week.......

Remember, the athletic department actually makes money for OU.

BoulderSooner
06-21-2018, 08:06 AM
Not good timing with the head football coach raise and the new softball stadium announced this week.......

OU athletic dept is not only fully self sufficient. It also gives money back to the university every year

In addition t paying for the full cost of tuition for the instate and out of state athletes OU gives 5 plus mil back to the general fund every year.

OU is one of very few schools that operate this way. And the only one in this state.

Osu for instance gets almost 5 mil from the university genera budget. Ie the tax payers of Oklahoma for their sports.

David
06-21-2018, 09:20 AM
maybe it's just me... but he throws out the 6% as being a low number... but to me, having debt payments be 6% of your total operating budget seems high to me.

I had the opposite reaction, 6% seems tiny to me.

Urbanized
06-21-2018, 09:30 AM
^^^^^^^^
Agreed. That’s why this seemed like a curious kerfuffle to me. Maybe it’s just because they come from different worlds (public service/academia vs publicly traded corporations), but bonding for capital projects is standard in the public sector. Yet Gallogly’s comments read like their house is on fire. I’d have expected these two to be on the same page at least until after the transition.

Rover
06-21-2018, 09:31 AM
Getting the capital projects for growth and maintenance funded with bonds at a time of historically low interest rates was very wise. In a couple of years that option likely won’t be there. It’s like locking in your home mortgage with 3.5% rates instead of waiting til they are 7. That debt /interest load would be debilitating if done before or after it was.

dankrutka
06-21-2018, 09:37 AM
Also, while K-12 funding cuts have been highlighted, cuts to higher ed have been just as deep and unprecedented. Any financial problems are largely at the feet of tax payers. Of course, you can see why, as their are posters in this thread that seem to neither see any value in education nor the tremendous role they play in the local civic and economic lives of their states and communities.

Jersey Boss
06-21-2018, 01:08 PM
I have to believe a review of salaries of professors in excess of $250,000 annually might want to be reviewed. I was absolutely stunned when I saw the list of profs *in one college alone* within OU drawing that kind of money.

Where did you see this list and what specific college were you refering to?

Jersey Boss
06-21-2018, 01:11 PM
^^^^^^^^
Agreed. That’s why this seemed like a curious kerfuffle to me. Maybe it’s just because they come from different worlds (public service/academia vs publicly traded corporations), but bonding for capital projects is standard in the public sector. Yet Gallogly’s comments read like their house is on fire. I’d have expected these two to be on the same page at least until after the transition.
Agreed. Seems odd that the "new guy" is slapping D Bo before his desk chair is cool. Unseemly to say the least.

PhiAlpha
06-21-2018, 02:30 PM
Agreed. Seems odd that the "new guy" is slapping D Bo before his desk chair is cool. Unseemly to say the least.

I think he’s just identifying a problem and lining it out as something that needs to be fixed. Of course Boren is going to minimize it...it all happened under his watch. At any rate, operating at a $36 million dollar per year deficit isn’t a good thing.

Pete
06-21-2018, 04:11 PM
Remember that Boren was specifically excluded from participating in the search for the new president.

Maybe the regents felt this was an area that needed to be addressed.

Urbanized
06-21-2018, 04:14 PM
^^^^^^^^
I had that thought too and it is entirely possible. I just thought it was odd for them to put each other on front street so publicly before the transition.

Jersey Boss
06-21-2018, 06:07 PM
Do any of the posters know whether or not an ongoing debt of 6% would be part of the oversight of the regents?

mugofbeer
06-21-2018, 08:54 PM
Do any of the posters know whether or not an ongoing debt of 6% would be part of the oversight of the regents?

6% is the average interest rate and $1 billion is the indebtedness if I read all this cortectly. Thats $6 million of interest annually. I assume the other $30 million is debt reduction. I would have to think the OU Regents indirectly oversee all of this while the University has financial people (or hire out under contract) who do the macro cash management. The Regents should be fully aware of the situation and get at-least quarterly updates.

Midtowner
06-21-2018, 08:55 PM
Remember, the athletic department actually makes money for OU.

It amazes me every time I see someone who doesn't know this. These facts are constantly offered in the media.. or you could Google them...

mugofbeer
06-21-2018, 09:17 PM
Does anyone know if the school gets all the students it wants or is there room for more?

Pete
06-22-2018, 05:46 AM
6% is the average interest rate and $1 billion is the indebtedness if I read all this cortectly. Thats $6 million of interest annually. I assume the other $30 million is debt reduction. I would have to think the OU Regents indirectly oversee all of this while the University has financial people (or hire out under contract) who do the macro cash management. The Regents should be fully aware of the situation and get at-least quarterly updates.

From that article:


"Total debt is almost $1 billion at our Norman campus,” said Jim Gallogly, who becomes OU's 14th president July 1. Debt service costs are almost $70 million a year, he said.

With the $70 million in annual debt service, it caused the unversity's net income to be a negative $36 million last year.


Also, 6% on $1 billion is $60 million not $6 million.

ditm4567
06-22-2018, 08:44 AM
As a recent graduate of OU there are a few things that I would love to address that President Designate Gallogly pointed out. First, I do not know how many of you all that are on this thread have actually been inside the buildings on the Norman campus recently, but many are extremely outdated. Yes, the outsides of most are beautiful (because that's all that OU has paid to be kept up for appearance purposes) but the insides of most haven't been touched since they were built. Many of the classrooms do not have functioning A/C, and the blinds are either nonexistent or are broken and barely hanging from the walls. Many classrooms do not even have an HDMI port that can connect laptops to projectors. Second, the sad fact that the building named after him might not have enough funding to be finished is a horrible look for the university and how Boren left it. Third, kudos to Gallogly for not simply just increasing tuition and putting the burden on the students shoulders (I saw in-state tuition increase 19.1% over the last four years). Many students are already taking out federal loans to pay tuition (36% of incoming freshman). And fourth, I would love to know what the University was thinking in continuing to build student living. The newest dorms, Cross Neighborhood, are just 26% leased for the upcoming year.

Just throwing out some thoughts from a recent graduate.

Thomas Vu
06-22-2018, 09:01 AM
It's been a little over 5 years since I've attended OU. To hear that the physical science building and dale are more likely more run down than when I left is sad to hear.

ultimatesooner
06-22-2018, 09:14 AM
Boren's response,

https://newsok.com/article/5598772/university-of-oklahoma-president-david-boren-says-ou-debt-is-large-but-comparable-to-similar-public-universities

he's part of the swamp

ultimatesooner
06-22-2018, 09:33 AM
Also, while K-12 funding cuts have been highlighted, cuts to higher ed have been just as deep and unprecedented. Any financial problems are largely at the feet of tax payers. Of course, you can see why, as their are posters in this thread that seem to neither see any value in education nor the tremendous role they play in the local civic and economic lives of their states and communities.

Education is valuable but OU already gets plenty of tax $$, the problem is Boren and his wife spending as much as they possibly can on every construction project/marketing campaign so they have a bunch of pretty pictures to show off what "they did"

he should have ran the place on a balanced budget like the rest of us in the the real world have to live on

FighttheGoodFight
06-22-2018, 09:33 AM
It's been a little over 5 years since I've attended OU. To hear that the physical science building and dale are more likely more run down than when I left is sad to hear.

It has to do a lot with ADA code. When they update they have to meet the new code requirements. Redoing Dale Hall will lose half the seats if they do. Thats why they wait.

Rover
06-22-2018, 12:19 PM
Education is valuable but OU already gets plenty of tax $$, the problem is Boren and his wife spending as much as they possibly can on every construction project/marketing campaign so they have a bunch of pretty pictures to show off what "they did"

Absurd comment from a Boren hater.

PhiAlpha
06-22-2018, 01:21 PM
Absurd comment from a Boren hater.

Yeah I would definitely be considered a Boren hater but his take is extreme for sure. I would've liked for the Borens to do a better job of managing the finances for all the projects and their ongoing maintenance and operation, but it's really tough to knock the job that did transforming the campus. There are definitely gaps and buildings that still need work but overall the Borens did a hell of a job building up the campus. Now it's Galogly's job to continue that and seek out new revenue streams to pay down the debt.

PhiAlpha
06-22-2018, 01:26 PM
It amazes me every time I see someone who doesn't know this. These facts are constantly offered in the media.. or you could Google them...

Yes this is really annoying. At any rate, I would say that OU gets a pretty great return on investment for every dollar they pay a successful head football coach. The athletic program is immensely more profitable when the football team is competing for national championships, completing 10 wins seasons, and getting tons of national exposure. It provides funding for the rest of the sports and the university. Additionally, a strong athletic program that is constantly in the national spotlight is a great recruiting tool not only for athletes but non-athletes as well.

aDark
06-22-2018, 01:37 PM
Yeah I would definitely be considered a Boren hater...

An SAE who hates Boren? No way! /s :wink:

mugofbeer
06-22-2018, 08:46 PM
From that article:



With the $70 million in annual debt service, it caused the unversity's net income to be a negative $36 million last year.


Also, 6% on $1 billion is $60 million not $6 million.

See what an OU edukation gets you? LOL.
Thanks for the korrection. Using a smartphone tires my eyes.

mugofbeer
06-22-2018, 08:48 PM
Yes this is really annoying. At any rate, I would say that OU gets a pretty great return on investment for every dollar they pay a successful head football coach. The athletic program is immensely more profitable when the football team is competing for national championships, completing 10 wins seasons, and getting tons of national exposure. It provides funding for the rest of the sports and the university. Additionally, a strong athletic program that is constantly in the national spotlight is a great recruiting tool not only for athletes but non-athletes as well.

I would imagine a few of those athlete alums become donors down the line

bluedogok
06-22-2018, 09:31 PM
As a recent graduate of OU there are a few things that I would love to address that President Designate Gallogly pointed out. First, I do not know how many of you all that are on this thread have actually been inside the buildings on the Norman campus recently, but many are extremely outdated. Yes, the outsides of most are beautiful (because that's all that OU has paid to be kept up for appearance purposes) but the insides of most haven't been touched since they were built. Many of the classrooms do not have functioning A/C, and the blinds are either nonexistent or are broken and barely hanging from the walls. Many classrooms do not even have an HDMI port that can connect laptops to projectors. Second, the sad fact that the building named after him might not have enough funding to be finished is a horrible look for the university and how Boren left it. Third, kudos to Gallogly for not simply just increasing tuition and putting the burden on the students shoulders (I saw in-state tuition increase 19.1% over the last four years). Many students are already taking out federal loans to pay tuition (36% of incoming freshman). And fourth, I would love to know what the University was thinking in continuing to build student living. The newest dorms, Cross Neighborhood, are just 26% leased for the upcoming year.

Just throwing out some thoughts from a recent graduate.
It was pretty much the same when I was there 35 years ago. The architecture school was in the north end of the stadiums but we had classes all over the campus. My freshman year my Basic Design/Graphics lab was in the basement of the Old Science Hall. Snow would blow in from the bad windows and we had a bunch of snow that year. We couldn't leave any drawing on the board as the snow coming in would ruin it.

BoulderSooner
06-22-2018, 10:04 PM
Education is valuable but OU already gets plenty of tax $$, the problem is Boren and his wife spending as much as they possibly can on every construction project/marketing campaign so they have a bunch of pretty pictures to show off what "they did"

he should have ran the place on a balanced budget like the rest of us in the the real world have to live on

Higher education has been cut about every year in Oklahoma

The debt payments are not why OU is in debt. The budget is over a billion a year so yea debt payment are around 6%. Which is in line

mugofbeer
06-22-2018, 10:22 PM
Education is valuable but OU already gets plenty of tax $$, the problem is Boren and his wife spending as much as they possibly can on every construction project/marketing campaign so they have a bunch of pretty pictures to show off what "they did"

he should have ran the place on a balanced budget like the rest of us in the the real world have to live on

You don't have a mortgage?

You get a motgage based on a level of income. If your tax revenues have been consistently reduced by small-minded legislators and donations have suffered due to the slowdown in that sector, sometimes cash pinches are unforseen. Boren oversaw the building of quality, architecturally proper buildings in an acedemic environment - not the most expensive building he could. A successful university isn't made of trailer homes but facilities where you can attract quality professors as well as students. My son felt comfortable there because of those structures and I am proud of him to be a 4th generation Sooner. I'm sorry if you can't see the value of a quality education, but unless you want a robot to replace your child someday at work (or you are a raving genious), a higher level quality education is a must.

chuck5815
06-23-2018, 06:29 AM
To be fair, the robots will obviate plenty of folks with bachelors degrees or better. We’re already seeing the effects of technology on the legal profession, for example. Research that historically required 10+ associates can now be accomplished by one or two because of services like Lexis, Westlaw, and IBM’s Watson. This is one of the chief reasons why attending law school has become such a terrible idea for most people.

PhiAlpha
06-23-2018, 08:35 PM
An SAE who hates Boren? No way! /s :wink:

Shocking, I know :p

Lazio85
06-25-2018, 12:16 PM
As a recent graduate of OU there are a few things that I would love to address that President Designate Gallogly pointed out. First, I do not know how many of you all that are on this thread have actually been inside the buildings on the Norman campus recently, but many are extremely outdated. Yes, the outsides of most are beautiful (because that's all that OU has paid to be kept up for appearance purposes) but the insides of most haven't been touched since they were built. Many of the classrooms do not have functioning A/C, and the blinds are either nonexistent or are broken and barely hanging from the walls. Many classrooms do not even have an HDMI port that can connect laptops to projectors. Second, the sad fact that the building named after him might not have enough funding to be finished is a horrible look for the university and how Boren left it. Third, kudos to Gallogly for not simply just increasing tuition and putting the burden on the students shoulders (I saw in-state tuition increase 19.1% over the last four years). Many students are already taking out federal loans to pay tuition (36% of incoming freshman). And fourth, I would love to know what the University was thinking in continuing to build student living. The newest dorms, Cross Neighborhood, are just 26% leased for the upcoming year.

Just throwing out some thoughts from a recent graduate.

Looking up In-State Tuition & Fee rates from school year 2010 - 2011 to 2018 -2019 I did some back of the hand calculations to adjust previous years rates with inflation numbers from the BLS (found here https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CUUR0000SA0L1E?output_view=pct_12mths). I averaged the time from August to June of the following year.

Unadjusted for Inflation
2010-11 $6,784
2011-12 $7,125
2012-13 $7,341
2013-14 $7,341
2014-15 $7,695
2015-16 $8,065
2016-17 $8,631
2017-18 $9,063
2018-19 $9,063

Overall percent increase in Tuition year over year 29.71% with an average of 3.71%.

Adjusted for Inflation (May 2018 dollars)
2010-11 $7,818
2011-12 $7,913
2012-13 $8,016
2013-14 $7,897
2014-15 $8,139
2015-16 $8,514
2016-17 $9,016
2017-18 $9,287
2018-19 $9,287

Overall percent increase in Tuition year over year 17.61% with an average of 2.20%.

Jersey Boss
06-25-2018, 05:21 PM
Nm

ditm4567
07-02-2018, 12:45 PM
https://newsok.com/article/5600051/ou-president-cuts-one-third-executives-on-first-day

President Gallogly really hit the ground running...