I was at the Spoon concert at The Jones Assembly recently and was accosted on the way to my car by a homeless man who was very angry that I was not interested in stopping to talk to him about whatever he was wanting. He followed me to my car and urged me to roll down my window. When I started the car and began to back out he lost it and started screaming and cursing and waving his arms. He continued acting this way as he walked across the street and to the gas station. Screaming the entire time. I decided to drive through the McDonald's there on Sheridan and saw 4 homeless men come out and walk around the building. There were two people in an old car in the parking lot that were clearly homeless. Then 2 other guys walked up to the other 4 guys and they all seemed to know each other. These people were all dressed normal with backpacks and they all had smartphones. They are clearly well organized and they didn't appear to be the least bit worried about their situation. In fact, quite laid back. Except for the crazy guy earlier. They all headed south towards I40 together. I went home to the cool, safe confines of Nichols Hills. I won't be going back. There is a strange dynamic at play in that area. New construction and young money mixed with old transmission shops and vagrants. Somebody is gonna get hurt.

With the limited information from this story I thought of a few things that could be helpful... or not. I've been in that area quite a bit (especially considering I don't live in Oklahoma) as a pedestrian and cyclist and I've never encountered a problem. That's just my experience though. But I can say that with the new apartments opening and more "eyes on the street," it's bound to be a safer area for everyone (including the homeless). I don't know if you need to dismiss the entire area. Heck, it's only a few blocks from the police department if you ever need help.

Second, if I'm reading your story correctly, there seems to a difference between the homeless population and a different group of people you're describing. Is that correct? It's just important not to lump everyone into one group if their circumstances and affiliations are different.

Lastly, a decent percentage of homeless people aren't simply "crazy," but often suffer from psychological disorders like paranoid schizophrenia or some form of bipolar disorder. These disorders make it hard to function and can be the reason they become and stay homeless (related: our country is utterly failing at supporting people with disorders). I am not at all dismissing your concerns because these disorders can in some cases lead to erratic or violent behavior, but it's just important context. In many cases, the people you encounter like the person who came to your car may also be in far more danger and in need of help too.

Anyway, if you think this is serious, you might report your encounter to the Jones, OKCPD, and local homeless shelters to make sure they have this information.

One local homeless man is an acquaintance of mine from before his homelessness. He was a law student at OCU about 10 years ago. He graduated. I doubt he passed the Bar. From what I can tell, now suffers from schizophrenia. I wouldn't call him a close friend, but I know a lot about his situation, and I typically open up my pocketbook to him when I see him, which is several times a week.

I can't imagine the hell he has to go through with no viable treatment options in this state.

I'm just wondering what criteria made it clear they were homeless when they had 'normal' clothes, backpacks, smartphones, and a car. The "went home to the cool, safe confines of Nichols Hills" gives me a few possible ideas, but I don't want to assume.

I went home to the cool, safe confines of Nichols Hills.

My goodness, sir. Why did you ever leave your white oasis?

Large percentage of them have mental health problems. It's not uncommon to hear them talking, or even arguing, with themselves. I've always just shown them some courtesy and give them simple yes or no answers to their questions until they move on. It has always kept things from escalating.

Having worked down here 20+ years I can tell you it's much safer now than at any point in those 20+ years I've had an office down here.

5 years ago there were days I didn't feel safe walking to my car in the dark and now I feel comfortable walking the mile, and back, to the Chesapeake to catch a Thunder game.

^

Exactly.

I am down in that area all the time, usually after dark. Have never felt unsafe.

Keep in mind there will soon be hundreds of apartment dwellers down there and a bunch more restaurants and bars. The area is changing as rapidly as any in OKC.

A couple Sunday's ago, I left the comfy, safe confines of my Edmond home and attended the Church Under The Bridge, which takes place on Virginia Ave, underneath the OKC boulevard bridge, every Sunday, rain or shine. There is a huge need for folks down there. For many, it's the only good meal they've had all week. It's amazing the joy that I saw on the faces of people who for those couple hours, didn't have to worry about anything. I will definitely be going back again.

Curse the darkness or light a candle. There are many organizations that would welcome an enthusiastic person to help them meet their mission.

This is because the Jones (and most of western edge of Film Row) is basically intruding on the homeless outreach hub of Oklahoma City. The entire area is going to have to grow together and adapt. This will be a big challenge for not only the transients, but also the non-poverty classes to get comfortable with such dynamics.

Within yards of the Jones you have: the large City Rescue Mission facility, New Life Affiliates facility, Refuge OKC complex and just down the street is the Jesus House complex. Just to the south and west you have an industrial complex that is ripe for people squatting and camping in the area.

It wasn't that long ago that basically everything west of Hudson was filled with homeless, as there was little else there.

Redevelopment keeps squeezing them out of areas and that trend is only going to continue.

How effective has the Curbside Chronicle been? I have seen some of their success stories, but I was wondering if anybody on here has a bigger picture effect that you could share.

One local homeless man is an acquaintance of mine from before his homelessness. He was a law student at OCU about 10 years ago. He graduated. I doubt he passed the Bar. From what I can tell, now suffers from schizophrenia. I wouldn't call him a close friend, but I know a lot about his situation, and I typically open up my pocketbook to him when I see him, which is several times a week.

I can't imagine the hell he has to go through with no viable treatment options in this state.

I don't think there are viable options for treatment in any state for those who don't want treatment. The vast majority of homeless are not "down on their luck" but have drug and/or alcohol addictions and/or mental problems. Until there can be some sort of legal way for people, such as your friend, to be forced into treatment, there will never be a resolution to the homeless problem anywhere in the country. I can tell you that the problem is far worse in many places in the country, such as here in Denver, than it is in OKC.

I can't remember where it is (maybe Salt Lake City, maybe not) that the city just provided housing for the homeless and it's proven both cheaper and far more successful. Basically, they said, instead of waiting for you to get your life back together to find housing, we're going to provide you housing to help you get your life back together. Turns out that it led to far less problems in a lot of areas that resulted in both a better solution and saved money. At least that's how I remember reading it.

I don't think there are viable options for treatment in any state for those who don't want treatment. The vast majority of homeless are not "down on their luck" but have drug and/or alcohol addictions and/or mental problems. Until there can be some sort of legal way for people, such as your friend, to be forced into treatment, there will never be a resolution to the homeless problem anywhere in the country. I can tell you that the problem is far worse in many places in the country, such as here in Denver, than it is in OKC.

As a percentage, I'm not sure many places are better than OKC. We have a huge homeless / indigant problem.

Also, while their are resourses there isn't necessarily the long-term care (mental, adiction, life skills, job transition) and certainly not enough outreach whereby you have squads of people and vehicles out letting people know what is available, offering on-the-spot treatment for more serious problems, and transportant to where they can get help.

I ran a homeless outreach program in Los Angeles for 7 years. I know a fair amount about this issue.

Bless you for running the program so you, of all people know the root causes.

Recent articles about the problems in any of the west coast cities indicate the problems there are far worse than OKC. Maybe this is one of those things you have to go see one city, then go to another and see how apparent it is. I have recently been to San Diego, Portland and Seattle and the homeless are far more numerous than when I go to OKC.

Come to Denver and see the park downtown between the State Capitol and the City/County building. It is full of homeless and drug abusers on a daily basis. Do like my wife and walk the trails within the city and see homeless encampments along the creeks and rivers. Walk or bike along Cherry Creek near downtown and see them under every bridge and in the bushes alongside the creek. See the underwear, excrement, needles, bottles in all these places that are fouling the creeks and rivers. News items warn those trying to keep the garbage down to not do it because of the danger of getting stuck by a needle or catching something from the pee in bottles they pick up. Colorado's pot laws have generated a lot of revenue for the city/state but a side effect has been a large number of people coming to the city to get involved in the industry only to find out it is pretty much full. The city does its best to keep up but, like everywhere, it is a problem.

As far as those programs in OKC, no, I am not familiar with them. What I am familiar with is that Denver is very engaged in it's homeless problem and the more they do, the more homeless there are. Other cities bus them here. There are dozens of people out telling people what is available and giving treatment but due to the addictions and mental health problems, many simply don't use them and want nothing more than to be left alone. The city works hard to keep them off the main downtown streets but the problem is when they come out of the woodwork and do something unpredictable like attack tourists or accost someone on a trail.

I can't remember where it is (maybe Salt Lake City, maybe not) that the city just provided housing for the homeless and it's proven both cheaper and far more successful. Basically, they said, instead of waiting for you to get your life back together to find housing, we're going to provide you housing to help you get your life back together. Turns out that it led to far less problems in a lot of areas that resulted in both a better solution and saved money. At least that's how I remember reading it.

I don't think it was SLC because they are known to bus homeless to Denver. I do think there is/are a west coast city that has recently opened a large complex of housing to homeless. I would like to read any articles of results.

As far as those programs in OKC, no, I am not familiar with them. What I am familiar with is that Denver is very engaged in it's homeless problem and the more they do, the more homeless there are. Other cities bus them here.

Even if this is true then more homeless are being cared for, which is a good thing.

And often it takes building a relationship with people over a period of time before they are open to help.


Your arguments are very much in the vein of "It's a hopeless situation and the more we do the worse it gets" and that is absolutely, fundamentally not true and is a dangerous and uninformed attitude to perpetuate.

What I am familiar with is that Denver is very engaged in it's homeless problem and the more they do, the more homeless there are. Other cities bus them here.

Just to make sure I am understanding you correctly, you're saying that some cities have policies and funding to gather homeless people and bus them to Denver? Can you provide some info and sources on this so I can learn more? Which cities? Whose job is it to gather homeless people and take them to a different city? Obviously, this all seems pretty problematic.

This is the second report of a very aggressive/violent panhandler in that area and it sounds like the same guy. I hope you called the police, this guy needs to be dealt with. BTW, that will not stop me from visiting the area. Just be aware of your surroundings or maybe valet park next time.

We have a lot of good resources for homeless in the city, below are some examples:

http://homelessalliance.org/
www.cityrescue.org/
www.positivetomorrows.org/

Even if this is true then more homeless are being cared for, which is a good thing.

And often it takes building a relationship with people over a period of time before they are open to help.
Your arguments are very much in the vein of "It's a hopeless situation and the more we do the worse it gets" and that is absolutely, fundamentally not true and is a dangerous and uninformed attitude to perpetuate.





Pete, please take what I say as simply chatting. I'm not criticizing you at all and I admire your compassion, I really do. You've devoted years of your life to this so I understand your passion.

If the methods used by most organizations was working, there would be improvement in the homeless problem. Every day that passes shows it may work for a relative few individuals, but every day that passes the overall problem gets worse. Show me one place your methods are working and homeless numbers are decreasing. LA is the only major city that has shown a decrease in homelessness - likely because they have devoted, literally, well over a billion dollars to building homeless housing and voted hundreds of millions of tax money annually in years beyond. LA numbers decreased, but only after a major numbers spike the year before so the effectiveness, even of the billions devoted to the problem, are inconclusive.

I never said it was hopeless no matter what. Homelessness will be there no matter how many outreach programs you have until and unless you spend literally billions in each major city (like LA is doing), send an army of 10 thousand out to be with the people 1 on 1 until and unless there is some way to force those who are incapable of making rational decisions into treatment. You really think that a simple outreach program is going to convince all the drug addicted, alcohol addicted, schizophrenics who just want to be left alone to start living a normal lifestyle? If it worked, you would see homeless numbers dropping across the country and they simply aren't.

Too many homeless care only about another injection, hit, drink or pill because they are addicted or sick. I've not had your experience but I have an Uncle I grew up with who is now homeless somewhere there in OKC (been around him a lot in my life) and worked for years in Downtown Denver on the ground floor on a major corner and observed the homeless peed and pooped on our office window, had people come into our office trying to deposit rocks then start smashing things when we wouldn't give them cash change for their rocks, knifed each other in our office, come in screaming babble, trying to solicit customers through our window on a nearly daily basis. In Denver, there are a lot who are not addicted but are here for the marijuana business and to be able to use pot. There is success getting them off the streets because they are shown there are few new opportunities left in the pot business and are still of relatively sound mind, so they look for traditional work. The numbers of typical homeless, however, are still increasing.

My suggestion is an experiment allowed somewhere - instead of spending billions to just put homeless in apartments and hoping their addictions go away, spend less money but force people who are not capable of helping themselves into real treatment. Use some tough love and make it less acceptable to be on the streets. Give people a path but if they don't take it, force them into treatment. (yes, I know it is not allowed - still my suggestion to experiment).

Just to make sure I am understanding you correctly, you're saying that some cities have policies and funding to gather homeless people and bus them to Denver? Can you provide some info and sources on this so I can learn more? Which cities? Whose job is it to gather homeless people and take them to a different city? Obviously, this all seems pretty problematic.

Go to Google and enter "busing of homeless to Denver." It opened my eyes because I read the paper pretty regularly here but it seems Denver busses people out to other cities, too. You will see articles outlining busing to Denver, too. The practice seems pretty common.

The over-arching issue as to why there is a huge and growing homeless problem is directly due to the lack of funding of mental health programs in Oklahoma and nationally. Virtually every chronically homeless person has serious mental and/or addiction problems.

Not to get political because I am old enough that I actually voted for him twice, but this started with the slashing of these programs by Ronald Reagan. It's also the reason we incarerate at a way higher percentage than almost any other country and why Oklahoma does so more than almost any state.

In the meantime, you can't just say the homeless population is growing and therefore the existing problem isn't being well addressed by loads of people and agencies. There are tons of successes but the entire U.S. is in the terrible position of having to treat symptoms (which is very, very important) rather than the causes.

I was an executive of a manufacturing company in Eastern Los Angeles a couple of years ago and we hired homeless persons to work in our plant. They were part of a program in Long Beach whereby they were housed, fed and trained by the city to do wage earning work. As part of the program they were tested for drugs and received other counseling. They were bussed to our factory every morning and back at night. Most were very good workers. We knew they would be on time, stay all day, and be clean of drugs/alcohol. By actually working with them to be employable, most were able to end the cycle of being on the street and through steady employment could then move from the shelters into their own apartments/homes.

People love to hate and look down on the poorest in our society, but many, many of them require help and then can help themselves. Incarceration and hopelessness breeds more and more despair, mental illness, alcoholism, violence........ Rinse and repeat.

I've had some incidents yet am entirely sympathetic to them. I had a friend with severe schizophrenia go through a period of homelessness a few years back. Luckily he was able to work through the system, go to Red Rock, etc. I work in Film Row basically diagonally from the Jones Assembly. When I pulled into our work parking lot last week I had a woman come and slam on the window banging and then she walked away. Evidently did it to a few other cars too. Later she had set up a tent inside of our gated parking lot. To me it's just depressing, not scary.

Within yards of the Jones you have: the large City Rescue Mission facility, New Life Affiliates facility, Refuge OKC complex and just down the street is the Jesus House complex. Just to the south and west you have an industrial complex that is ripe for people squatting and camping in the area.

I'm pretty sure City Rescue is a dry facility. I don't know about the others. I wonder if this limits the outreach they can do?

With the limited information from this story I thought of a few things that could be helpful... or not. I've been in that area quite a bit (especially considering I don't live in Oklahoma) as a pedestrian and cyclist and I've never encountered a problem. That's just my experience though. But I can say that with the new apartments opening and more "eyes on the street," it's bound to be a safer area for everyone (including the homeless). I don't know if you need to dismiss the entire area. Heck, it's only a few blocks from the police department if you ever need help.

Second, if I'm reading your story correctly, there seems to a difference between the homeless population and a different group of people you're describing. Is that correct? It's just important not to lump everyone into one group if their circumstances and affiliations are different.

Lastly, a decent percentage of homeless people aren't simply "crazy," but often suffer from psychological disorders like paranoid schizophrenia or some form of bipolar disorder. These disorders make it hard to function and can be the reason they become and stay homeless (related: our country is utterly failing at supporting people with disorders). I am not at all dismissing your concerns because these disorders can in some cases lead to erratic or violent behavior, but it's just important context. In many cases, the people you encounter like the person who came to your car may also be in far more danger and in need of help too.

Anyway, if you think this is serious, you might report your encounter to the Jones, OKCPD, and local homeless shelters to make sure they have this information.

These were all clearly homeless people. I am not a psychologist. I don't use fancy terms to describe people that act crazy. This guy was crazy. I am not the least bit concerned for his situation or if he is in danger. It's not my problem. He didn't harm me or my property so there is no need to bother the police.

I'm just wondering what criteria made it clear they were homeless when they had 'normal' clothes, backpacks, smartphones, and a car. The "went home to the cool, safe confines of Nichols Hills" gives me a few possible ideas, but I don't want to assume.

The homeless in the car were only 2 of the people. The rest were on foot. The criteria that I used to make this remarkable determination was simple observation. I know it's hard to tell the difference sometimes between hipsters and the homeless but these people were absolutely homeless. This is an area with shelters and encampments close by. Go hang out there at 10pm tonight if you don't believe me. You make the call. Then go back to your home that I doubt is a shack itself before you judge my situation just because I am honest about it.

My goodness, sir. Why did you ever leave your white oasis?

I have many black friends. I listen to rap music. I watch BET. I subscribe to JET. I speak jive. I am in fact a black man. African American to you, thanks. Assume much?

Large percentage of them have mental health problems. It's not uncommon to hear them talking, or even arguing, with themselves. I've always just shown them some courtesy and give them simple yes or no answers to their questions until they move on. It has always kept things from escalating.

Having worked down here 20+ years I can tell you it's much safer now than at any point in those 20+ years I've had an office down here.

5 years ago there were days I didn't feel safe walking to my car in the dark and now I feel comfortable walking the mile, and back, to the Chesapeake to catch a Thunder game.

I didn't feel safe in the area I was talking about. Neither did the woman who had her tire slashed while sitting in her car in front of the Jones recently. Or the family whose car window was smashed with a large piece of cement and it injured their child a block or so away from that area last week.

Curse the darkness or light a candle. There are many organizations that would welcome an enthusiastic person to help them meet their mission.

I did light a candle by posting this on this forum.

This is because the Jones (and most of western edge of Film Row) is basically intruding on the homeless outreach hub of Oklahoma City. The entire area is going to have to grow together and adapt. This will be a big challenge for not only the transients, but also the non-poverty classes to get comfortable with such dynamics.

Within yards of the Jones you have: the large City Rescue Mission facility, New Life Affiliates facility, Refuge OKC complex and just down the street is the Jesus House complex. Just to the south and west you have an industrial complex that is ripe for people squatting and camping in the area.

Exactly. This was my point. It will be interesting to see what happens to all of these facilities in the near future when the hipsters realize this is an issue. I bet the city decides it's time to move the homeless somewhere less conspicuous. Money talks. They got the trains to stop blowing their horns downtown after all because they are too special to have to hear that.

This is the second report of a very aggressive/violent panhandler in that area and it sounds like the same guy. I hope you called the police, this guy needs to be dealt with. BTW, that will not stop me from visiting the area. Just be aware of your surroundings or maybe valet park next time.

This was not the same guy. I looked that incident up. That guy was white. This guy was not.

my wife often accuses me of looking like a homeless person on weekends because i don't bother with doing things like brushing my slightly balding hair and wear clothes i've had for 20+ years to do projects around the house - you sound slightly more judgmental than her. But i'll make sure and yell at the next Nichols HIlls yuppie i see to get on the next level

Exactly. This was my point. It will be interesting to see what happens to all of these facilities in the near future when the hipsters realize this is an issue. I bet the city decides it's time to move the homeless somewhere less conspicuous. Money talks. They got the trains to stop blowing their horns downtown after all because they are too special to have to hear that.

There are similar issues all over downtown.

I lived in SoSA for a year and very close to the county prison. That hasn't detered hipsters and the well-heeled alike from spending the most money per SF for homes; and rents are very high as well.


One person's scary and I'll-never-go-there-again experience is no big deal to many who see uncomfortable encounters as a trade-off for living/working so close to the best amenities in the state, and most figure out they aren't in any real danger at all. I've come across plenty of ranting people and if anything just feel sympathy for them.

For 7 years I worked in what was considered one of the 'worst' areas of Los Angeles (which is saying something) and it didn't bother me a bit. I minded my own business, treated everone I came across with respect and never had one issue.

Safety, after all, is in the eye of the beholder as the odds of any one person experiencing violent crime virtually anywhere is astronomically low.

If you simply don't like seeing such things, then anywhere in the urban core is not for you. Fair enough. Plenty of other people clamoring to go to these places and live in the area.

The over-arching issue as to why there is a huge and growing homeless problem is directly due to the lack of funding of mental health programs in Oklahoma and nationally. Virtually every chronically homeless person has serious mental and/or addiction problems.

Not to get political because I am old enough that I actually voted for him twice, but this started with the slashing of these programs by Ronald Reagan. It's also the reason we incarerate at a way higher percentage than almost any other country and why Oklahoma does so more than almost any state.

In the meantime, you can't just say the homeless population is growing and therefore the existing problem isn't being well addressed by loads of people and agencies. There are tons of successes but the entire U.S. is in the terrible position of having to treat symptoms (which is very, very important) rather than the causes.

Obviously there are many people that are on the streets because of mental issues but there are also a large proportion that have made the choice to live this way. It is literally a way of life for these people. They do not want "help". They want to live off the grid with little or no responsibility. Apart from the guy who freaked out on me the others I saw looked healthy, well clothed, and were using smartphones and eating at McDonald's. There is an entire culture within the homeless community that exists to live this way and it is growing due to disenfranchisement with the system as they see it. The proverbial "dropping out" of society. It's real and thanks to technology more organized than ever. Not that it really matters much in the greater scheme of things.

my wife often accuses me of looking like a homeless person on weekends because i don't bother with doing things like brushing my slightly balding hair and wear clothes i've had for 20+ years to do projects around the house - you sound slightly more judgmental than her. But i'll make sure and yell at the next Nichols HIlls yuppie i see to get on the next level

I am not judgmental. I know a homeless person when I see one.

^

I will merely say that many studies -- and my own personal experience -- show that almost all homeless have some sort of mental illness and/or addiction.

You seem to be leaping to all types of conclusions after seeing a few people with backpacks and cell phones. You are entitled to your opinions but you should also be expected to be challenged when you make statements like you have here.

Well. That escalated quickly, and one guy got plonked.

How's everyone else's evening?

There are similar issues all over downtown.

I lived in SoSA for a year and very close to the county prison. That hasn't detered hipsters and the well-heeled alike from spending the most money per SF for homes; and rents are very high as well.


One person's scary and I'll-never-go-there-again experience is no big deal to many who see uncomfortable encounters as a trade-off for living/working so close to the best amenities in the state, and most figure out they aren't in any real danger at all. I've come across plenty of ranting people and if anything just feel sympathy for them.

For 7 years I worked in what was considered one of the 'worst' areas of Los Angeles (which is saying something) and it didn't bother me a bit. I minded my own business, treated everone I came across with respect and never had one issue.

Safety, after all, is in the eye of the beholder as the odds of any one person experiencing violent crime virtually anywhere is astronomically low.

If you simply don't like seeing such things, then anywhere in the urban core is not for you. Fair enough. Plenty of other people clamoring to go to these places and live in the area.

Tell that to the woman who was also accosted outside the Jones recently. Check the News 4 website for that story. The homeless guy slashed her tire after she rushed to get in her car to get away from him. Or the family who had a homeless guy smash their car window injuring their child recently near this same area. Also on the news. I will go where I please but from now on I will be armed as I walk or have a gun ready in the car. I don't share your views of it didn't happen before so it never will. I mind my own business too but that has nothing to do with these things.

Exactly. This was my point. It will be interesting to see what happens to all of these facilities in the near future when the hipsters realize this is an issue. I bet the city decides it's time to move the homeless somewhere less conspicuous. Money talks. They got the trains to stop blowing their horns downtown after all because they are too special to have to hear that.

A homeless shelter in Nichols Hills would be cool.

Well. That escalated quickly, and one guy got plonked.

How's everyone else's evening?

I don't feel plonked. My points stand. My evening is fine as long as I stay away from the homeless on Sheridan.

Tell that to the woman who was also accosted outside the Jones recently. Check the News 4 website for that story. The homeless guy slashed her tire after she rushed to get in her car to get away from him. Or the family who had a homeless guy smash their car window injuring their child recently near this same area. Also on the news. I will go where I please but from now on I will be armed as I walk or have a gun ready in the car. I don't share your views of it didn't happen before so it never will. I mind my own business too but that has nothing to do with these things.

We are talking about acutal risk and real danger vs. what is perceived.

The incident you mentioned regarding the tire... News reports say she was in her car, the guy wanted her to roll the window down and she didn't, so he punctured her tire. She took his photo as he walked away and he was quickly arrested. I'm sure it scared her but doesn't sound like she was ever at any great personal risk and certainly was not harmed in any way.

And so next time a homeless man starts screaming at you, you'll do exactly what with your ready firearm?

A homeless shelter in Nichols Hills would be cool.

For the homeless it would be. Make it happen cap'n!

We are talking about acutal risk and real danger vs. what is perceived.

The incident you mentioned regarding the tire... News reports say she was in her car, the guy wanted her to roll the window down and she didn't, so he punctured her tire. She took his photo as he walked away and he was quickly arrested. I'm sure it scared her but doesn't sound like she was ever at any great personal risk and certainly was not harmed in any way.

And so next time a homeless man starts screaming at you, you'll do exactly what with your ready firearm?

I can't find anything about the guy ever being arrested. He certainly wasn't "quickly arrested". Where did you get that? She had posted this ordeal on her facebook page with his picture and he was still at large then. She said in the news piece that she was "terrified" when he pulled out the knife and came around to her drivers side window. You have a strange definition of what is and isn't "great personal risk" and "harm". Some people are emotionally scarred for life from such incidents. Show some empathy for the victim here instead of just trying to further your point that we have nothing to fear from the well meaning homeless amongst us. I get it. You are all about helping them and supporting the cause but don't be so ridiculous. And what about the other family I mentioned before? You didn't respond to that. Tell their kid in the hospital how the homeless guy meant no harm. As for my firearm, I will protect myself and my family to the extent that the law allows

Post the story about the kid. I couldn't find it.

Of course she was scared; I said as much. But what real personal risk do you have when you are inside a locked car and someone has a knife standing at the front of your car? And in the end all that happened was her tire was punctured. Sorry, that doesn't amount to much other than a scary, hyped news story.

Feeling scared and actually being at risk for real personal harm are completely different things.

We are talking about acutal risk and real danger vs. what is perceived.

The incident you mentioned regarding the tire... News reports say she was in her car, the guy wanted her to roll the window down and she didn't, so he punctured her tire. She took his photo as he walked away and he was quickly arrested. I'm sure it scared her but doesn't sound like she was ever at any great personal risk and certainly was not harmed in any way.

And so next time a homeless man starts screaming at you, you'll do exactly what with your ready firearm?

WTH? Some stranger (I don’t care if he’s homeless or not) wields a deadly weapon at my wife (even if she’s in her car) and then attempts to disable her car and thus keep her from fleeing - and to you that doesn’t constitute “great personal risk” and wasn’t “harmed IN ANY WAY.” WOW.... Simply, WOW.

He punctured her tire, said nothing and walked away.

You are editorializing with "weilds a knife at my wife" and "attempts to disable her car and thus keep her from fleeing". There is nothing that indicates any of this.

^

I will merely say that many studies -- and my own personal experience -- show that almost all homeless have some sort of mental illness and/or addiction.

You seem to be leaping to all types of conclusions after seeing a few people with backpacks and cell phones. You are entitled to your opinions but you should also be expected to be challenged when you make statements like you have here.

I have not leapt to any conclusions. I counted 11 people that were clearly homeless. You don't need to be an expert to recognize a homeless person. I guess you think you do. Whatever. My original point was that I found it interesting how they were dressed better than most homeless that are typically seen panhandling around town and that they were on smartphones and that many of them knew each other. I don't see why you find it necessary to try to diminish my experience. This area is an enclave for the homeless in OKC. This is a fact. My point in adding that Nichols Hills was safe was to accentuate this fact. I saw young girls walking to their cars parked in a field with no lighting in the dark as I left the show and I felt concerned for them as I would be about my own daughter. I simply wanted to point out that the area is clearly in transition more so than others due to it's proximity to the homeless population there and how that might shake out given my incident and the others that have taken place. I had hoped someone might offer some insight into what will happen, not be insulted for living in a nice part of town. There are small homes in Nichols Hills you know.

^

You said: " there are also a large proportion that have made the choice to live this way. It is literally a way of life for these people. They do not want "help". They want to live off the grid with little or no responsibility"


Not trying to diminish your experience at all, which is completely valid. That's been stated several times.

But if you are going to post things like the statement above you are going to be challenged.

Post the story about the kid. I couldn't find it.

Of course she was scared; I said as much. But what real personal risk do you have when you are inside a locked car and someone has a knife standing at the front of your car? And in the end all that happened was her tire was punctured. Sorry, that doesn't amount to much other than a scary, hyped news story.

Feeling scared and actually being at risk for real personal harm are completely different things.

I bet the woman this happened to who said she was "terrified" would disagree with your assessment. And if it was my daughter or wife it happened to that would piss me right off.

When the other story ran on local news they indicated that the perpetrator was thought by police to be a homeless person because she told them he had asked her for money and she didn't give him any. Here's the link to NewsOk's story: https://newsok.com/article/feed/2275274/oklahoma-city-man-hurls-rock-at-minivan-injures-baby

I am still confused as to why you started this thread. You have basically pointed out two recent incidents to start a narrative that "homeless people are bad" and subtly bragged about living in Nichols Hills, while at the same time ignoring other posters' efforts to add to the conversation that most homeless people are in their situation due to mental illness. Did you ask the "nicely dressed" homeless people about their situations, how they got where they are, or if they have the capacity to improve their situation on their own? Probably not. So you are making some pretty odd assumptions that they are there by choice.

Perhaps you should try and put yourself in the shoes of someone on the outskirts of society and attempt to render an empathetic view, instead of assuming they "are just bad people with no desire for help." Do you have loved ones with mental illnesses? If so, I would challenge you to think about how you would feel if they ended up on the streets.

There are people at my office who often talk about the "crazies" they encounter while walking downtown. How would that conversation sound if we were talking about someone with Alzheimer's? How about cancer? How is this any different?

It seems that the more violent crimes drop and the safer we become as a society, the more people are unable to cope with any kind of threatening situation and the perceived threat level of any situation escalates.

Even to the level where a homeless dude with a knife attacking a box of steel warrants talks about lethal defenses to a fight that the other guy already lost the moment he attacked a car with a knife.

Exactly. This was my point. It will be interesting to see what happens to all of these facilities in the near future when the hipsters realize this is an issue. I bet the city decides it's time to move the homeless somewhere less conspicuous. Money talks. They got the trains to stop blowing their horns downtown after all because they are too special to have to hear that.

Gold medal in mental gymnastics.

Gotta hand it to a guy who puts his real name (if it really is) out there along with his opinion, a real unicorn in the realm of Internet discussion boards.

As with everything else in society, the answer to the homeless problem lies in the gray, which is where nobody wants to go these days.

The angle about the disenfranchised millennials making up the homeless populace is interesting, but I'm guessing is really more an issue in Portland, Seattle, Denver, etc

Having spent quite a few days trying to be of service to the homeless here, and having considerable interaction, I heard many tragic stories. I didn’t see well dressed homeless, and only a very few wanted to stay on the street ... and they had been there so long they were long accustomed to the hardship. I would say at least a third were emotionally and/or mentally in pain. Probably another third or so had substance abuse issues. Many had traumatic interruptions in their lives that sent them spiraling into addiction, depression, hopelessness. Many suffered from pains like toothaches, arthritis, etc and couldn’t get medical help or didn’t know where to look. I had one lady who blew out a knee and couldn’t walk and people, including policemen, passed her by without helping her, and some making nasty remarks to her face. They came to us for a meal after sleeping in trash bags to try to stay dry in freezing rain. Some walked miles to get a meal. So, I’m sorry if I don’t believe this is their preferred life or that they are nuisances and dangerous.

There, but for the grace of God, go you, and you, and I.

Gold medal in mental gymnastics.

You didn't say why I was wrong.

I am still confused as to why you started this thread. You have basically pointed out two recent incidents to start a narrative that "homeless people are bad" and subtly bragged about living in Nichols Hills, while at the same time ignoring other posters' efforts to add to the conversation that most homeless people are in their situation due to mental illness. Did you ask the "nicely dressed" homeless people about their situations, how they got where they are, or if they have the capacity to improve their situation on their own? Probably not. So you are making some pretty odd assumptions that they are there by choice.

Perhaps you should try and put yourself in the shoes of someone on the outskirts of society and attempt to render an empathetic view, instead of assuming they "are just bad people with no desire for help." Do you have loved ones with mental illnesses? If so, I would challenge you to think about how you would feel if they ended up on the streets.

There are people at my office who often talk about the "crazies" they encounter while walking downtown. How would that conversation sound if we were talking about someone with Alzheimer's? How about cancer? How is this any different?

You need to read the entire thread. I have made myself clear and it's not about homeless people being bad. Though I'd love for you to explain to me how they are good on any level whatsoever. Go ahead. Please.
I never bragged. That is your interpretation. I was simply making a point that I am glad that I live in an area without said homeless people. Literally mocking myself and my lucky situation. I live in a modest home valued at less than $150,000. More Village than Nichols Hills but technically the latter.

I started the thread for the same reason anyone does. To get opinions. Like yours.

You should go talk to some homeless people and report back. I'm not going to.

Having spent quite a few days trying to be of service to the homeless here, and having considerable interaction, I heard many tragic stories. I didn’t see well dressed homeless, and only a very few wanted to stay on the street ... and they had been there so long they were long accustomed to the hardship. I would say at least a third were emotionally and/or mentally in pain. Probably another third or so had substance abuse issues. Many had traumatic interruptions in their lives that sent them spiraling into addiction, depression, hopelessness. Many suffered from pains like toothaches, arthritis, etc and couldn’t get medical help or didn’t know where to look. I had one lady who blew out a knee and couldn’t walk and people, including policemen, passed her by without helping her, and some making nasty remarks to her face. They came to us for a meal after sleeping in trash bags to try to stay dry in freezing rain. Some walked miles to get a meal. So, I’m sorry if I don’t believe this is their preferred life or that they are nuisances and dangerous.

There, but for the grace of God, go you, and you, and I.

It is absolutely a choice for many of the people. Sorry if that collides with your view. I love how people always go on about how they care and have worked with the homeless as if that qualifies them as experts in the matter and all other possibilities are nullified by this. Just stop. I made it clear that it is a portion, NOT ALL. You are oversimplifying. If God is so great why does he let this happen to these wonderful human beings? In reality, people don't actually care that much or there would be more action on the everyday citizens part to solve this. Fortnite is more fun. So is typing on an internet forum.