View Full Version : OKC's might have beens...



warreng88
12-26-2017, 01:54 PM
I saw an article in the Tulsa World about Tulsa might have beens and it got be thinking about OKC. What are you top 10-ish OKC might have beens? Mine are as follows, in no particular order:

1. Stage Center Towers
2. Bricktown Towers.
3. L2 (Lift apartments, round 2)
4. There was a development that I forget the name of, but it was infill in between Sheridan and Main in BT on the open parking lot.
5. OU Boathouse
6. Cotton Exchange Building in Bricktown
7. Randy Hogan (I think) development on the parking lot in front of the Chevy BT Event Center
8. There was a development sign on the SW/C of Lincoln and I-44 that was supposed to be a multi-use development. I think it was called "The Secret" or something like that...

Can't really think of any others off the top of my head right now...

By the way, the link to the TW story is below:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/photovideo/slideshows/tulsa-might-have-beens-projects-that-never-happened/collection_27a9271c-3c3c-5ae4-a296-0ed00b209def.html

Plutonic Panda
12-26-2017, 03:47 PM
Tuscana Village. There’s also that mixed use development where the dome building is on NW 36th ST.

If we’re going on something developers could have some but cheaped out which I’m sure there could be so many things, OKC has a special chance to do something cool with the Belle Isle Power Plant. They could have repurposed it and built a lifestyle center around the lake. But I know that isn’t the point of discussion.

To continue on that if all of these things happened and we still had our downtown historic building stock or the PEI Plan was fully built out as envisioned having the city wide monorail that was proposed built, OKC would be such an amazing place. It seems like the city has been unlucky.

That looks like it will change.

To add, OKC could have also gotten the FedEx Hub and American Airlines Maintenance Center. No matter. The fact that all this stuff was evens seriously proposed shows how much potential this city has. I’ve been here visiting and I swear the city changes so much even when I’m gone for 6 months. So much being built. It’s exciting.

Edit: just to expand the discussion a little bit, my suspicions on current proposed developments I think will have this label, I’m skeptical of Glimcher and Town Center(though that one may be waiting for the turnpike to be extended).

KayneMo
12-26-2017, 03:50 PM
The Pei Plan having never been executed.

HangryHippo
12-26-2017, 04:07 PM
The Pei Plan having never been executed.
This. Goodness. Makes me sad to think about it what could have been.

bradh
12-26-2017, 04:19 PM
It was before my time in OKC and Plu reminded me of it, but Belle Isle could have been so much better than it is.

HangryHippo
12-26-2017, 04:27 PM
It was before my time in OKC and Plu reminded me of it, but Belle Isle could have been so much better than it is.

Another great example.

bchris02
12-26-2017, 05:28 PM
Lower Bricktown is the first thing that comes to mind. Think about how Bricktown and downtown would have developed differently had Randy Hogan built what he originally proposed. Looking at what other cities were building around the same time, he had no excuse for half-arsing it the way he did. A perfect example of what it could have been without having to compare OKC to a much larger market or a different region of the country is Branson Landing.

Aside from that, I would say things that have already been mentioned like Stage Center Tower. For the suburbs, Tuscana and the Glimcher lifestyle development come to mind. It seems like every time a mixed-use lifestyle center gets proposed here, it's either by a shady developer that doesn't follow through or it gets NIMBYed.

Plutonic Panda
12-26-2017, 05:35 PM
It's been on OKCTalk that the Leadership Square Towers were supposed to be over 50 stories. I can't remember whether that was confirmed or not.

Oh, and there was supposed to be a 35 story or so tower on the NE area of the I-235/I-44 interchange.

I also believe OKC had a proposal to bring a water port involving massive construction and dredging of some river to connect it the Arkansas river. I can't remember where I read that but I'm sure I did somewhere. Most recently the Formula One racing almost happened here or was pitched by the Cornett but it didn't go anywhere.

We also had a poster here who drew this concept up as something that the Boulevard could have been: https://andrewkstewart.wordpress.com/2013/08/30/the-better-boulevard-part-i-market-circle/

Urbanized
12-26-2017, 06:13 PM
warreng88, the proposing developer for the lot east of the ballpark was Bob Funk Senior.

Regarding Bricktown Towers, I maintained pretty much from the beginning that it was never real in any way (got roasted on here for saying so, too). It’s unfortunate that it took everyone for such a ride.

rezman
12-26-2017, 07:21 PM
I have to echo that the Pei plan had never been implemented. Rather carefully selected bits and pieces selected for redevelopment over time instead of the scorched earth approach that was taken. Some 40-50 years later, I would love to see all the gems that could have been saved. Had the Pei plan completely come to fruition, by now it would be showing it’s age, crumbling, and ripe for redevelopment.

As for lower Bricktown, who’s to say that it can’t be redeveloped into something better?

catch22
12-26-2017, 07:27 PM
One that should not be overlooked is OKC's failed bid for the United Airlines maintenance base which was lost to Indianapolis. MAPS as we know it may never have happened if United accepted our bid, as they essentially told local leadership that local quality of life was a major factor in where they wanted to hire.

Had we won we may have mintenaed the same path of slow decay, and worse lose the facility after all after 9/11.

Urbanized
12-26-2017, 07:34 PM
Yep. Indy eventually lost the facility anyway...we dodged a bullet, and the hard look we had to take in the mirror after losing out ended up being a game-changer for us. Win-win.

bchris02
12-26-2017, 08:03 PM
One that should not be overlooked is OKC's failed bid for the United Airlines maintenance base which was lost to Indianapolis. MAPS as we know it may never have happened if United accepted our bid, as they essentially told local leadership that local quality of life was a major factor in where they wanted to hire.

Had we won we may have mintenaed the same path of slow decay, and worse lose the facility after all after 9/11.

That is an interesting question and topic of speculation. It's hard to imagine nothing like MAPS happening in OKC even if the city would have been successful at alluring the United Airlines maintenance base, unless the city would have possibly went the way of Detroit. It's hard to think of another city that had a more disastrous urban renewal or a more dilapidated downtown going into the early 1990s. That wasn't a good time for urban areas anywhere in the country but OKC was among the worst of the worst. However, even Detroit has an up and coming downtown in 2017. Most of their first and second ring might as well be a warzone but their downtown is solid. Given the fact today almost every city in the country is revitalizing their downtown it's hard to imagine OKC would have had nothing happening.

catch22
12-26-2017, 09:36 PM
That is an interesting question and topic of speculation. It's hard to imagine nothing like MAPS happening in OKC even if the city would have been successful at alluring the United Airlines maintenance base, unless the city would have possibly went the way of Detroit. It's hard to think of another city that had a more disastrous urban renewal or a more dilapidated downtown going into the early 1990s. That wasn't a good time for urban areas anywhere in the country but OKC was among the worst of the worst. However, even Detroit has an up and coming downtown in 2017. Most of their first and second ring might as well be a warzone but their downtown is solid. Given the fact today almost every city in the country is revitalizing their downtown it's hard to imagine OKC would have had nothing happening.

Yes. That is why I say MAPS as we know it. Absolutely we would see OKC follow the trend of other cities, but imagine how far behind we would be. We are still behind the times in some regards when it comes to downtown. But Bricktown and the Ballpark were the catalyst to where we are today. So a lot of credit is due to the leadership of generations past in taking action to make us a more dynamic city today.

mugofbeer
12-26-2017, 09:40 PM
Here's one we don't hear about much. TG&Y stores were big across the south and based in OKC. They were in the process of changing from a "5 and dime" type of store to a Super-center (like and older version of Wal Mart). When McRory (I think) bought them out and destroyed the chain, it allowed Wal Mart to become what it is today. If TG&Y had been well-managed and not sold out, they were already well on their way to being Wal Mart.

jompster
12-26-2017, 10:15 PM
I also believe OKC had a proposal to bring a water port involving massive construction and dredging of some river to connect it the Arkansas river. I can't remember where I read that but I'm sure I did somewhere.

Sounds like the Port of Catoosa.

Plutonic Panda
12-27-2017, 07:35 AM
Sounds like the Port of Catoosa.
Yes. They chose Tulsa. I’m guessing it was cheaper.!

mkjeeves
12-27-2017, 07:47 AM
Interesting article on Tulsa. On one of those projects, Portofino on the River, they razed a couple of buildings, put up a construction fence, had an art contest for people to make art related to the theme to decorate the fence, and had a grand art opening pre-construction party. I made a piece of art for the fence, delivered it, and went to the party. Art could be picked up a year later if anyone wanted it. I called to check after a year, expecting to go to Tulsa anyway and see a building structure mostly up. I was told the project had been cancelled after uncertainty following 911. Things happen.

Bellaboo
12-27-2017, 08:02 AM
Yes. They chose Tulsa. I’m guessing it was cheaper.!

There was speculation that the Deep Fork would be straightened and dredged for an OKC port. The speculation of a proposal was about as far as it got.

Plutonic Panda
12-27-2017, 08:13 AM
There was speculation that the Deep Fork would be straightened and dredged for an OKC port. The speculation of a proposal was about as far as it got.

Are you sure there was never a more serious proposal?

bchris02
12-27-2017, 10:12 AM
Yes. That is why I say MAPS as we know it. Absolutely we would see OKC follow the trend of other cities, but imagine how far behind we would be. We are still behind the times in some regards when it comes to downtown. But Bricktown and the Ballpark were the catalyst to where we are today. So a lot of credit is due to the leadership of generations past in taking action to make us a more dynamic city today.

I agree completely. I would say the two most important and impactful MAPS projects were the ballpark and the arena. It's hard to imagine OKC today without the Thunder, but if it wasn't for MAPS they wouldn't be here. The canal on the other hand; I question whether or not it was a good investment given the fact it is still so underdeveloped and underutilized and we are fast approaching the 20 year mark since it's opening. It should have been the focus of urban development and activity in Bricktown yet is and has always been an afterthought. I think without the canal, the city would have seen a more dense, compact Bricktown and Lower Bricktown would have never been a thing. Bricktown would have likely developed much more like downtown Fort Worth or Old Town Wichita. I am hoping that going forward, the streetcar will have a similar impact on moving the core forward that the ballpark and the arena did.

BG918
12-27-2017, 10:16 AM
There was speculation that the Deep Fork would be straightened and dredged for an OKC port. The speculation of a proposal was about as far as it got.

The Arkansas River navigation system was already extremely expensive and I have no doubt our state leaders would never support such a plan now. But that project was nothing compared to deepening and widening the Deep Fork to OKC since the Arkansas and Verdigris already run wider and deeper.

I do know they originally wanted to build the river port in Tulsa on the west side near the refineries but the Arkansas is about 150 ft higher in Tulsa than the Verdigris in Catoosa. The project was already way over budget and the cost of building new dams/locks and modifying the bridges through Tulsa was too high so the port went to Catoosa with the last Arkansas River port is in Muskogee.

traxx
12-27-2017, 11:16 AM
Disney Mid-America

rezman
12-27-2017, 11:22 AM
Another "might have been" that has crossed my mind on occasion is if the new I-40 had not been built on top of the existing east/west rail corridor that we had, and how that could have played into the new development between there and the river, and further south..

Plutonic Panda
12-27-2017, 01:49 PM
The Arkansas River navigation system was already extremely expensive and I have no doubt our state leaders would never support such a plan now. But that project was nothing compared to deepening and widening the Deep Fork to OKC since the Arkansas and Verdigris already run wider and deeper.

I do know they originally wanted to build the river port in Tulsa on the west side near the refineries but the Arkansas is about 150 ft higher in Tulsa than the Verdigris in Catoosa. The project was already way over budget and the cost of building new dams/locks and modifying the bridges through Tulsa was too high so the port went to Catoosa with the last Arkansas River port is in Muskogee.
Wasn’t Tulsa slated to get a nuclear power plant as well?

I really wished that would have happened.

Plutonic Panda
12-27-2017, 01:50 PM
Disney Mid-America
Was that ever for real? I know Dallas at once had a proposed shopping mall by Disney that was going to be like the Mall of America but it died for whatever reason.

baralheia
12-27-2017, 02:01 PM
For me, two of the biggest "might have been" projects were if the Market Circle proposal for the Boulevard had come to fruition, and (channeling Tom Elmore for a second here) if we hadn't relocated I-40 through the platforms and yard at Union Station - with a few rail alignment modifications to enable north-south traffic, that could have become quite the transportation hub for OKC, with much more available space to dedicate to various transit modes and enabling easier east-west passenger rail traffic, too. The Bricktown Towers project could have been quite significant for the city as well, had it not been a big farce.

baralheia
12-27-2017, 02:07 PM
Wasn’t Tulsa slated to get a nuclear power plant as well?

I really wished that would have happened.

Yeah, the Black Fox Nuclear Power Plant. Public Service Company of Oklahoma (PSO) proposed it in '73, and then after intense public backlash, the plan was abandoned 9 years later in 1982. Some work had already begun on the site, but not much aside from rudimentary roads, a rail spur, and dirt work for the basements of the reactor buildings.

rezman
12-27-2017, 04:25 PM
Was that not the proposed Black Fox Nuclear plant at Inola back in the 70’s ?
I remember travelling I-35 and seeing the signs that said “Stop the Black Fox Project”.

Jersey Boss
12-27-2017, 04:42 PM
Can the Eastern Flyer be mentioned?

BG918
12-27-2017, 05:10 PM
Yeah, the Black Fox Nuclear Power Plant. Public Service Company of Oklahoma (PSO) proposed it in '73, and then after intense public backlash, the plan was abandoned 9 years later in 1982. Some work had already begun on the site, but not much aside from rudimentary roads, a rail spur, and dirt work for the basements of the reactor buildings.

You can see the Black Fox site on Google Maps, along the Verdigris River near Inola

https://goo.gl/maps/VjHqB8cNGst

baralheia
12-27-2017, 05:14 PM
Can the Eastern Flyer be mentioned?

The Eastern Flyer is still a possibility... though a LOT would need to change... it'd have to be with a different passenger carrier and with a shakeup in leadership at the state and city level. The passenger carrier that was selected to run the line, Iowa Pacific Holdings, is reportedly on life support and barely able to pay their bills. Also, Mayor Bynum has come on the record and said he thinks rail is "outmoded" and, as a result, is stalling on necessary improvements in Tulsa to get passenger trains into downtown. In OKC, no work has begun on a study to determine the best way to rehabilitate the former interchange track that connects the BNSF rail viaduct to UP's Harter Yard, a critical link to be able to get to the Stillwater Central line to Tulsa. This is despite the City Council passing a resolution over 2 years ago that authorizes funding for it. To add insult to injury, state-level funding for such an endeavor is practically nonexistant, especially considering that ODOT is often seen as an enemy to passenger rail expansion in this state.

I badly want to see the Eastern Flyer begin service... but at this point, at least from what public info I can find, this effort appears close to death. :(

ctchandler
12-27-2017, 08:37 PM
Here's one we don't hear about much. TG&Y stores were big across the south and based in OKC. They were in the process of changing from a "5 and dime" type of store to a Super-center (like and older version of Wal Mart). When McRory (I think) bought them out and destroyed the chain, it allowed Wal Mart to become what it is today. If TG&Y had been well-managed and not sold out, they were already well on their way to being Wal Mart.

MOB,
I don't know your age, but I shopped at TG&Y often and they were not a discount store in any way. Unfortunately, Walmart would have destroyed them. McRory was the cause of their demise but it was inevitable.
C. T.

mugofbeer
12-27-2017, 09:59 PM
cthandler: beg to differ. I also shopped there at Shephard Mall and several other locations and where there were TG&Y Super Centers, they were most definitely moving towards what would become like the original Wal Mart model. Look up TG&Y stores and some of the info written on it. They definitely were in the discount space with their ill-fated Aim-for the-best. At the time the chain closed, it was far larger than Wal Mart.

One interesting point is that a certain Mr. Green was a store manager at Britton Rd and May who later went on to own Hobby Lobby.

Bunty
12-27-2017, 11:54 PM
Wasn’t Tulsa slated to get a nuclear power plant as well?

I really wished that would have happened.

Near Tulsa. Stopping it from happening was one of the biggest news stories in Oklahoma during 1979.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/years-later-carrie-dickerson-remembered-for-strategy-that-ended-black/article_6baeca67-75d8-5855-8067-252609642975.html

Bunty
12-28-2017, 12:00 AM
MOB,
I don't know your age, but I shopped at TG&Y often and they were not a discount store in any way. Unfortunately, Walmart would have destroyed them. McRory was the cause of their demise but it was inevitable.
C. T.

Wal-Mart destroyed about everybody, except for Target. Target and Wal-Mart's different routes for growth worked out good for both of them

ctchandler
12-28-2017, 09:18 PM
cthandler: beg to differ. I also shopped there at Shephard Mall and several other locations and where there were TG&Y Super Centers, they were most definitely moving towards what would become like the original Wal Mart model. Look up TG&Y stores and some of the info written on it. They definitely were in the discount space with their ill-fated Aim-for the-best. At the time the chain closed, it was far larger than Wal Mart.

One interesting point is that a certain Mr. Green was a store manager at Britton Rd and May who later went on to own Hobby Lobby.

MOB,
Just based on prices alone, they were not even close to Walmart or Gibsons. I shopped at the super center in Edmond, then we moved South and we shopped at the super center at 74th and Penn. What they had over the Gibsons and Walmart was mainly quality (in my opinion) but if you priced the stores using comparable items, Walmart beat them handily. I'm not being critical of them, I preferred shopping there. And by the way, I have a lot of respect for Mr. Green, but does he own any "discount" stores? I can answer that, no he doesn't. He had a great idea for a concept and took it to a new level. There was some competition but his stores were/are special. By the way, I wouldn't argue that they were planning to become a "discount" direction, I think it was just too little and too late.
C. T.

drinner-okc
12-28-2017, 10:38 PM
How far back you want to go? Braniff Airways (which later had the different colored airplanes) first flight was from Oklahoma City to Tulsa in like 1930. They grew, both in routes and by absorbing competition. In the later 30's or early 40's they had multiple international flights. They wanted a daily flight direct from Mexico City to Oklahoma City and asked the Oklahoma City Airport to have a customs agent available 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Oklahoma City said that was too expensive, Dallas Tx said they would provide that and the headquarters of Braniff moved to Dallas, Tx Remember for a long time Braniff was the largest employer in Dallas, and had an airline pilot training center that trained most of the jet pilots in the world. All lost for the annual salary of one (additional) customs agent. Why do I know this? my dad worked for Braniff in OKC & Miami FL for 20 years before his untimely death. Every time we flew to OKC thru Dallas, he'd say 'all this could've been in Oklahoma City & I'd never have left home'
Now to the 50's Does anyone remember car racing at Taft Stadium? There was a brick racetrack around the football field. from the early 40's they raced midgets, smaller versions of the cars raced at Indianapolis. many drivers from the central United States learned to drive open wheel cars at Taft Stadium. As the cars got larger & faster they were too fast for Taft. The City had built a dirt 1/2 mile track at the fairgrounds but the route thru OKC to the Indy 500 was over (Now I loved and MISS the Fairgrounds Speedway) There were efforts for a paved track, that never materialized.
In the 70's we had a brand new 1/4 mile NHRA drag strip the NIMBY people killed.
in the 90's the City chased off the Street Rod Nationals (an annual event) to Louisville Ky, 10,000 to 11,000 participants in town for a week. (with their families)

traxx
12-29-2017, 08:11 AM
Was that ever for real? I know Dallas at once had a proposed shopping mall by Disney that was going to be like the Mall of America but it died for whatever reason.

I think it was more rumor and speculation than anything. There was a thread about it somewhere on here years back. My post was kinda made in jest.

I always thought the Bricktown Towers thing was just a "This is the kinda thing that could go here" rather than an actual proposal. I never considered it anything that was definitely going to happen.

ctchandler
12-29-2017, 09:01 PM
How far back you want to go? Braniff Airways (which later had the different colored airplanes) first flight was from Oklahoma City to Tulsa in like 1930. They grew, both in routes and by absorbing competition. In the later 30's or early 40's they had multiple international flights. They wanted a daily flight direct from Mexico City to Oklahoma City and asked the Oklahoma City Airport to have a customs agent available 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Oklahoma City said that was too expensive, Dallas Tx said they would provide that and the headquarters of Braniff moved to Dallas, Tx Remember for a long time Braniff was the largest employer in Dallas, and had an airline pilot training center that trained most of the jet pilots in the world. All lost for the annual salary of one (additional) customs agent. Why do I know this? my dad worked for Braniff in OKC & Miami FL for 20 years before his untimely death. Every time we flew to OKC thru Dallas, he'd say 'all this could've been in Oklahoma City & I'd never have left home'
Now to the 50's Does anyone remember car racing at Taft Stadium? There was a brick racetrack around the football field. from the early 40's they raced midgets, smaller versions of the cars raced at Indianapolis. many drivers from the central United States learned to drive open wheel cars at Taft Stadium. As the cars got larger & faster they were too fast for Taft. The City had built a dirt 1/2 mile track at the fairgrounds but the route thru OKC to the Indy 500 was over (Now I loved and MISS the Fairgrounds Speedway) There were efforts for a paved track, that never materialized.
In the 70's we had a brand new 1/4 mile NHRA drag strip the NIMBY people killed.
in the 90's the City chased off the Street Rod Nationals (an annual event) to Louisville Ky, 10,000 to 11,000 participants in town for a week. (with their families)

I flew Braniff several times and even though I never saw them I was well aware of the racing at Taft stadium.
C. T.

bchris02
01-03-2018, 04:20 PM
The OG&E Towers thread made me think of something not talked about much anymore. That is the Milhaus proposal for the residential tower on the south portion of the Stage Center site. The proposal wasn't as sexy as what Clayco was proposing, but it was more realistic for a market the size of OKC. If the city would have voted in favor of the Milhaus proposal for the south side of the Stage Center site, it might have actually been built and there would actually be high-rise residential facing MBG.

Pete
01-03-2018, 04:31 PM
This was the Milhaus proposal:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/milhaus1.jpg

Plutonic Panda
01-09-2018, 06:52 PM
This is kind of veering away from the topic, but whatevs. This 1.7 billion dollar automobile plant was picked for Huntsville. What does Huntsville have that OKC doesn’t?

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180109/oem/180109768/toyota-mazda-to-build-%241.6-billion-plant-in-alabama-report-says

traxx
01-12-2018, 03:31 PM
This is kind of veering away from the topic, but whatevs. This 1.7 billion dollar automobile plant was picked for Huntsville. What does Huntsville have that OKC doesn’t?

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180109/oem/180109768/toyota-mazda-to-build-%241.6-billion-plant-in-alabama-report-says

I agree. I wish OK could get a car plant or two.

To answer your question, though, I think Toyota already has another plant there and infrastructure.

rezman
01-12-2018, 04:50 PM
I doubt we will ever attract another auto assembly plant, or any other similar industry after the screwings GM took after locating here on the promise of a 20 year property tax exemption, only to have it pulled out from under them, and then receiving a tax bill in the millions of dollars afterwards.

Laramie
01-15-2018, 03:23 PM
National Hockey League expansion franchise in 1997; NHL or NBA?

http://www.neosportsinsiders.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/OriginalLogo02.png http://content.sportslogos.net/news/2014/11/4841-350x475.gif

Nationwide Insurance Company of Columbus helped secure that final spot; Oklahoma City got left out in the cold despite OKC's arena plan which the NHL felt that OKC couldn't build an NHL ready arena on an $89 million budget. Ron Norick was contacted on Friday to get a press conference ready for the following Monday; then the news came that Columbus was awarded that franchise. OKC's NHL franchise were to be called the Oklahoma RedHawks.


The Columbus Bluejackets: Nationwide announced on May 31, 1997, that it would finance the $150-million arena. Subsequently, on June 25, 1997, the NHL announced that Columbus would receive a new franchise.[4] Afterwards a "Name the Team" contest was held with the help from Wendy's throughout central Ohio during the month of August 1997. Out of 14,000 submitted entries, the franchise with help from the NHL narrowed the 14,000 entries down to 10 names. Then with the information received from owner McConnell regarding Columbus' history, the League and the franchise narrowed the list of potential names down to two – Blue Jackets and Justice. The former, which referenced Ohio's contributions to the American Civil War, was eventually announced as the team name in November.--Wikipedia


https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r960-fc4e51cb82974777a356d4553ab72043.jpg
Oklahoma City's arena was originally built to attract an NHL franchise.


Mission accomplished
More flirtations with the NHL followed. Norick agrees those early rejections helped Oklahoma City in its eventual bid for the NBA...

...“Rejection makes you sharper and makes you focus in on what they're telling you,” Norick said. “If they're saying you're not big enough, or there needs to be a different circumstance, listen to them — they know what they're talking about. I appreciate the NHL knew what to recognize in our proposal that fell short and told us.”

It was a moment when Bennett had to face a city and explain it wasn't deemed ready for entrance into the major leagues. It's a tale that begins with a city dismissed as a “small, Southwestern town” making an unlikely play not for the NBA but a National Hockey League team.

Oklahoma City's NBA success story rooted in NHL failure: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-nba-success-story-rooted-in-nhl-failure/article/3683005

Could Oklahoma City have supported the NHL as well as it supports the NBA?

ESPN NHL & NBA attendance:


NHL attendance--Columbus: http://www.espn.com/nhl/attendance
NBA attendance--Oklahoma City: http://www.espn.com/nba/attendance

Laramie
01-15-2018, 04:43 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7WiT5hIAAAuc7t.jpg
Martin Luther King Jr.,
http://www.priceedwards.com/sites/default/files/for-sale/images/IMG_1900.jpg http://www.priceedwards.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/propertyThumb/for-sale/images/IMG_1810.jpg
Calvary Baptist Church, Oklahoma City


About 1,500 filled the church to hear the words of the widely recognized civil rights leader.

When he was told that Oklahoma City youth were planning to boycott downtown stores to desegregate restaurants, King commended the action, saying such efforts had been successful in Nashville.

This was not King's first visit to Oklahoma City, though. He had been to Calvary Baptist church before. In 1953, after finishing Crozier Theological Seminary in Pennsylvania, King preached at the church but was not retained as its pastor.

https://localtvkfor.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/img_7360.jpg?quality=85&strip=all&w=640
Martin Luther King Jr., Day, Oklahoma City

Martin Luther King Jr., ties to Oklahoma City:

Before the "dream," there was Oklahoma City: http://m.newsok.com/article/5443045


When King addressed the church, the members reacted with enthusiasm. The Oklahoma City church was used to launch civil rights protests throughout Oklahoma City by the late 1950s, using sit-ins to force restaurants and other businesses to end discrimination.

Oklahoma City was "ripe" for King's ideas, Owens said.

"But we didn't know his potential at that point, even though he showed signs then of being a dynamic speaker," Owens said.

Slain Civil Rights Leader Remembered in City Youngest Celebrants Recite King's Words: http://newsok.com/article/2527188

traxx
01-16-2018, 03:22 PM
I doubt we will ever attract another auto assembly plant, or any other similar industry after the screwings GM took after locating here on the promise of a 20 year property tax exemption, only to have it pulled out from under them, and then receiving a tax bill in the millions of dollars afterwards.

Yeah, I'm sure the wild mismanagement of GM had absolutely nothing to do with shutting down the OK plant as well as others. GM is only still in existence because of the taxpayers. Although, I don't really see any changes or lessons learned; I'm thinking GM will face extinction again within the next 20 years.

rezman
01-16-2018, 06:11 PM
The reasons for them shutting down are another story, but big industry hasn’t forgotten about what was done to GM by the state of Oklahoma.

Jersey Boss
01-16-2018, 06:48 PM
I thought it was an Oklahoma County issue, not State of Oklahoma issue. One would also think GM legal would have vetted the tax break before sighning off on the deal.

rezman
01-16-2018, 08:51 PM
Your right. I should have clarified. It was the City that promised the tax break, the Attorney General who ruled it illegal after the plant was located here, and the Oklahoma supreme court that upheld the decision. And then they were required to pay retro back 3 or 4 years to top it off. . So it’s not only a city, but also a state perception for Industries considering locating here.

RodH
01-16-2018, 10:58 PM
The state legislature could have found a way to make good on the promise if they had wanted to but they chose not to do it. I think that is why GM would not even listen to OK when OK tried to offer incentives to keep the OKC plant open. The OKC plant had reportedly been ranked as one of the most productive plants they had but that was not enough for GM to even consider keeping it open. I doubt that OK will get another auto plant any time soon. The corporate world has a long memory when they feel they have been mistreated.

Midtowner
01-17-2018, 09:55 AM
I doubt we will ever attract another auto assembly plant, or any other similar industry after the screwings GM took after locating here on the promise of a 20 year property tax exemption, only to have it pulled out from under them, and then receiving a tax bill in the millions of dollars afterwards.

The deal was illegal in the first place. The Oklahoma Industry Authority didn't have the authority to create special tax exemptions. GM got their bailout later when they convinced the good voters to purchase that land from GM and donate it to the federal government's tax exempt use.

OKC Schools is a pretty good might have been. It's currently a perfect illustration of the Peter Principle as applied to ridiculous bureaucracy in action. And a mere $2.1 million consulting firm is going to fix that. Turn it all around. Don't hold your breath.

Plutonic Panda
01-17-2018, 02:29 PM
Apple is reportedly building a second campus and multiple data centers. It would be nice if OKC could land a data center.

baralheia
01-17-2018, 02:44 PM
I honestly don't think the tax exemption affected GM's decision to close Oklahoma City Assembly that much... The tax exemption deal was found unconstitutional in 1983[1], but the plant continued to produce vehicles for 23 years after that decision. They announced the decision to shut down the OKC plant in 2005, along with 8 others nationwide[2], in an effort to ward off looming financial trouble when the auto market got soft in the few years leading up to the Great Recession. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if other automakers are leery of moving here because they remember what happened with the ad valorem tax exemption fiasco.

[1]: http://newsok.com/article/2025109
[2]: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/10138507/ns/business-autos/t/gm-slashing-jobs-closing-plants

BG918
02-06-2018, 03:49 PM
There was speculation that the Deep Fork would be straightened and dredged for an OKC port. The speculation of a proposal was about as far as it got.

As recently as 2013 there have been serious discussions about making the Red River navigable to Denison/Durant. The river is currently navigable for barge traffic to Shreveport/Bossier City, LA. The first project to make this a reality is a lock and dam at Fulton, Arkansas which would be over a billon dollars. I doubt this goes anywhere unless Texas has some deep pockets and DFW really wants a nearby river port.

https://www.ktbs.com/news/ark-la-tex-in-depth-navigating-the-red-river/article_5f4a9670-522a-5bf3-82fc-5975a97f9498.html

jccouger
02-07-2018, 07:00 PM
A skydance bridge being built as originally proposed as a suspension bridge.

What we have now is fine, but that proposal was a thing of beauty.

http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2008/09/core-to-shore-i-40-pedestrian-bridge.html

Plutonic Panda
02-08-2018, 07:45 AM
Would have been nice but the city cheaped out per usual.

Laramie
02-08-2018, 01:49 PM
Dallas & Boston have cables on some of their bridges (non pedestrian). If the cables help to stabilize the bridge for support; then we should revisit that decision.

Those cables IIRC would have added $2 million to this $6 million pedestrian bridge. You would only be able to view the cables during the day. Really don't see it as an issue--we saved $2 million.