Another one-sided article about how Oklahoma is a failed state

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/29/oklahoma-education-system-four-day-school-weeks-poor

Another one-sided article about how Oklahoma is a failed state

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/29/oklahoma-education-system-four-day-school-weeks-poor

Boggles my mind how so many people are in denial when reality is presented

Oklahoma isn't working. Can anyone fix this failing American state? (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/29/oklahoma-education-system-four-day-school-weeks-poor)

Poverty, police abuse, record prison rates and education cuts that mean a four-day school week. Why are public services failing Oklahomans?

Russell Cobb
Tuesday 29 August 2017 07.00 EDT

A teacher panhandles on a roadside to buy supplies for her third-grade classroom. Entire school districts resort to four-day school weeks. Nearly one in four children struggle with hunger.

A city overpass crumbles and swarms of earthquakes shake the region – the underground disposal of oil and gas industry wastes have caused the tremors. Wildfires burn out of control: cuts to state forestry services mean that out-of-state firefighting crews must be called in.

A paralyzed and mentally ill veteran is left on the floor of a county jail. Guards watch for days until the prisoner dies. A death row inmate violently convulses on the gurney as prison officials experiment with an untested cocktail for execution.

Added up, the facts evoke a social breakdown across the board. Not only does Oklahoma lead the country in cuts to education, it’s also number one in rates of female incarceration, places second in male incarceration, and also leads in school expulsion rates. One in twelve Oklahomans have a felony conviction.


Rosa Brooks of Georgetown University Law Center wrote in an essay that states begin to fail when the contract between citizens and public institutions breaks down. States “lose control over the means of violence, and cannot create peace or stability for their populations or control their territories. They cannot ensure economic growth or any reasonable distribution of social goods.”

It may be hard to believe, but entry-level employees with a high school diploma at the popular convenience store QuikTrip make more than teachers in Oklahoma.

For four years running, the state has led the nation in tax cuts to education, outpacing second-place Alabama by double digits. Years of tax cuts and budget shortfalls mean that Oklahoma has fallen to 49th in teacher pay. Spending per pupil has dropped by 26.9% since 2008.

Things have become so bad that the Cherokee nation, a tribe systematically cheated out of its land allotments in the creation of the modern state of Oklahoma, recently donated $5m to the state’s education fund.

Lisa Newman, a high school teacher from El Reno, for instance, recounts a history of cutbacks, increases in class sizes, and her stagnant salary. She takes in less than $1,000 a month after all her bills are paid.

Newman, who recently moved back into her parents’ house at age 39, contemplates a declining standard of living while she raises two boys and works about 50 hours a week.

Shelby Eagan, Mitchell elementary school’s 2016 teacher of the year, decided she’d had enough after a referendum to raise teacher pay through an increase in state sales tax was defeated in last November’s election.

“I would like to have kids some day,” she says. But that’s unlikely for now: her rent has gone up. She also buys her own supplies for her classroom.

Eagan is originally from Kansas City but she loves Oklahoma. She found her calling teaching in an urban elementary school. She teaches the children “how to tie their shoes, blow their nose, have superhero fights that don’t turn violent”, among other things. All of her students are on free or reduced-fee lunch programs.

After the referendum defeat of SQ 779, Eagan decided to look elsewhere for a better gig. Eagan found a job in the area that would increase her salary by $10,000 right off the bat.

Eagan’s decision to leave was mirrored in May by the 2016 Oklahoma teacher of the year, Shawn Sheehan, who wrote in an op-ed: “Teaching in Oklahoma is a dysfunctional relationship.”

At Oklahoma Policy Institute, a progressive thinktank, the policy analyst Carly Putnam says education is only one part of the state’s dysfunction. Putnam cites the example of a popular support program for developmental disabilities which gave families of limited means resources to take care of their loved ones. It takes roughly 10 years just to get on a waiting list to be considered for the support waiver to help a disabled person, meaning applications filed in 2006 are just now being considered. Many of the disabled patients have died by the time their files are being considered.

One student with a bipolar disorder was nearly arrested and expelled, Eagan says. “No one had the training to deal with his manic or depressive days. One day, another student kicked him in the head during a manic day.”

This triggered Eagan’s student, who punched the offending student. Administrators decided to expel theEagan’s student and charge him with assault. Eagan eventually talked them out of pressing criminal charges, but the experience left her withwas a visceral encounter with the school-to-prison pipeline.

•••

The case of Elliot Williams is a stark example of how Oklamhoma’s public institutions is failing its citizens. Williams, who had been honorably discharged from the army, had a diagnosed bipolar condition. After he experienced a few nights of insomnia at his parents’ house in Owasso, relatives brought him to a hotel.

Williams threw a soda can in the lobby and walked into a door. Hotel staff called police. An officer who arrived at the scene found Williams “rambling on about God and eating dirt”. The officer and the staff concluded that Williams was suffering from “some kind of mental breakdown”.

They escorted him out of the hotel and called his parents. At some point, while outside the hotel, Williams threatened to kill himself. A cop ordered him to stay seated on a curb. Williams got up and moved towards a police officer, who pepper-sprayed him.

Police arrested Williams, charging him with obstruction. The small town jail of Owasso wasn’t equipped to deal with a case like Williams’s. Instead of a suitable mental health facility, Williams wound up Tulsa County Jail.

It was Williams’s bad luck to be transferred to a jail that only weeks earlier, federal agents had faulted for “a prevailing attitude of indifference”.

The jail was run by Sheriff Stanley Glanz, who would become infamous as the man who assigned his friend, Robert Bates, an insurance agent with no police training, to a violent crimes task force.

Tulsa County jail was certainly no place for a man with a bipolar condition. And yet, with Williams in the midst a breakdown, he was tackled and body-slammed to the ground by an officer. Williams had difficulty walking. He was transferred to a holding cell, where he rammed his head against a wall.

Seeing Williams unable to move, the head nurse allegedly told him to “quit ****ing faking”. He defecated on himself and officers dragged him to a shower. He still didn’t move. To prove that it was an act, an officer put a small cup of water just outside Williams’s grasp. He never reached it.

For three days, jail officials – guards and medical staff – expressed “concern” about Williams but never called 911 or requested a hospital transfer. He was left in a medical cell, where a video camera recorded him lying there, unable to eat or drink. Five days after he was put in the Tulsa County jail, Williams had died of complications from a broken neck and serious dehydration.

Audits and inspections of the Tulsa County jail revealed decades of indifference to sexual abuse, overcrowding and overt racism. From one angle, the Tulsa County jail is par for the course of the American criminal justice system. But from another – and in the opinion of the jury that ultimately sided with Williams by awarding his estate $10.25m – Tulsa had seriously failed.

Shane Matson is a geologist whose family has been in the Oklahoma oil business for three generations. For Matson, the discovery of new reserves in Oklahoma is a good thing. The “dark outlook about the future of energy” is gone, he says. Cheap oil and gas are now abundant.

Matson fought Obama-era regulations in Osage County, where he was exploring for oil. But his industry’s political influence has now reached untoward extremes, he thinks. Chesapeake Energy, Devon Energy and Continental Resources have lobbied to lower the state’s gross production tax, citing competition from other states. They’ve gotten their way, with Oklahoma’s oil and gas production taxes now significantly below those of its rival Texas.

One of the state’s richest men and its most renowned philanthropist, George Kaiser, has been urging an increase in the gross production tax for years. And there’s reason to believe it’s not necessarily a partisan issue. Until recently, North Dakota had been able to expand its education system with a 6.5% gross production tax.

And despite the tax cuts, the Tulsa-based Newfield Exploration moved most of its staff to Houston.

Industry leaders, not surprisingly, see the issue through an entirely different lens.

Chad Warmington, the president of the Oklahoma Oil & Gas Association, says that about a quarter of the state’s tax revenue comes from oil and gas while the industry employs about 13% of the state’s workforce. Dependence on taxes from oil and gas “has left the state unprepared for inevitable price downturns of a cyclical industry”, Warmington says. The current downturn, then, “has led many to question the state’s management of the tax dollar”.

The Oklahoma Policy Institute calculates that the current regime of tax breaks and refunds costs around half a billion dollars in decreased revenue ever year. That figure, if correct, would cover the current $220 million budget gap in education but would still not be enough to make up for the state’s entire budget shortfall.

•••

Of course, many would not recognize their state in this description. One of the most respected bloggers in Tulsa, Michael Bates, said the whole idea of Oklahoma as a failing state was “hysterical and overwrought”.

After all, downtown Tulsa and Oklahoma City are thriving. The cities have been rated by Kiplinger among the “best cities in America to start a business”. Tulsa has rolling hills, parks and delicious barbecue: Tulsa People enumerates the city’s private schools. Affordable housing prices are the envy of the nation and suburban school districts boast gleaming new facilities. And yes, some conservatives think the four-day week is good for “traditional” families, allowing for more time with the kids. For affluent families, the extra day can be spent on college prep or sports. But for middle- and working- class parents, it means lost wages or added expenses for childcare.

And for poor families, like those of Eagan’s students, who rely on the free lunch program, it means hunger. Local food banks have to pick up the slack and deliver meals when the kids aren’t in school.

Nearly everyone I talked to for this story – regardless of political affiliation – was startled by the downward spiral of basic social services.

There is something deeply ingrained and unyielding in the state’s conservatism.

When I was in elementary school, I remember seeing my mother struggle with hundreds of thousands of dollars of unpaid medical bills after my dad died of heart disease. She was suddenly a single mother with an incomplete college education, no professional training, and a mountain of debt. We depended on the generosity of friends and family to get by.

I recently asked her why she never went on welfare or food stamps while she worked as a daycare teacher and raised me.

“Welfare is for poor people,” she said. “We weren’t them.”

If you rely on the progressive account, it’s easy to think Red America is dominated by a majority of angry racists lighting a match to liberal democracy. And people in the hipper areas of Tulsa seem to want the city to divorce the state.

But there are signals that some Oklahomans want a change of direction. David Blatt, the executive director of Oklahoma Policy Institute, and someone who’s happy to work with “reasonable” Republicans, points to three referenda widely expected to be voted down that actually won.

Oklahomans voted to reclassify certain drug possession crimes from felonies to misdemeanors, bucking the “law and order” line of the Trump campaign. They also voted to deny public funds to return a Ten Commandments monument to the state capitol, and against a bill to rewrite the state’s constitution that would have made it harder to regulate big agribusiness. All this in a state that gave Trump the third-widest margin of victory in America.

Meanwhile, facing another budget meltdown and a teacher exodus, the state raised cigarette taxes to cover the shortfall only to have the supreme court rule the law unconstitutional.

Oklahoma declared a revenue failure the second year in a row.

“Our situation is dire,” Oklahoma finance director Preston Doerflinger said. “To use a pretty harsh word, our revenues are difficult at best. Maybe they fall into the category of somewhat pathetic.”

Governor Mary Fallin had an answer: prayer. The governor issued an official proclamation making 13 October Oilfield Prayer Day. Christians were to gather in churches and hope for a little divine intervention targeting falling worldwide oil prices. Fallin quickly back-pedalled when it was pointed out that her proclamation only included Christians. “Prayer is good for everyone,” she reasoned.

Prayer Day came and went. The price of oil has barely budged since. Three weeks after Prayer Day, however, the earth shook. A 5.0 magnitude earthquake hit the town of Cushing, a place whose claim to fame is the “Oil Pipeline Crossroads of the World”.

Maybe God had something to say about Oklahoma after all.

Russell Cobb is an associate professor in modern languages and cultural studies at the University of Alberta. He is at work on a book provisionally titled You Dumb Okie: Race, Class, and Lies in Flyover Country

Whatever points this guy is trying to make, however valid at a micro or macro level, seem to me to be underpinned by an intense hatred for Oklahoma in general - note the title of the other book to his credit, and apparently he was raised here?

Yeah, we get it, you hate Oklahoma, and yeah, we get it, we've got problems. We know that. Any solutions?

Whatever points this guy is trying to make, however valid at a micro or macro level, seem to me to be underpinned by an intense hatred for Oklahoma in general - note the title of the other book to his credit, and apparently he was raised here?

Yeah, we get it, you hate Oklahoma, and yeah, we get it, we've got problems. We know that. Any solutions?
+1

Here's another one:


Oklahoma’s Impossible Education Equation Can’t be Helped by Charity (https://nonprofitquarterly.org/2017/08/29/oklahomas-impossible-education-equation-cant-helped-charity/)
By Erin Rubin ERIN RUBIN | 59 mins ago

If you’re looking for a situation that exemplifies the dangers of cutting too much public spending, look no further than Oklahoma’s public schools, where charities have stepped in to rescue teachers from near-poverty.

As might be expected, teachers have tired of struggling to survive and are fleeing to neighboring states like Texas, where they can get pay raises of $40,000 just by moving. The Sooner State’s colossal deficit makes it difficult to raise teacher salaries, which rank 49th in the nation and have decreased, in real terms, over the last decade. About 11 out of 100 teachers leave the school system each year in search of better pay.

According to the Washington Post, “the number of positions filled by emergency-certified teachers—who have no education training (or, in [Newcastle superintendent Tony] O’Brien’s words, ‘are upright and breathing’)—is now 35 times as high as it was in 2011” at over 1,400 positions. One superintendent taught third grade during the first week of school this year, joining other non-teaching staff assigned to supervise classrooms until teachers could be found.

Nonprofits are pitching in to help the situation. Charity drives for school supplies, subsidized loan programs, and other perks have been solicited to attract teachers to the state. Most significantly, the Kaiser Foundation has invested in making Tulsa more attractive to Teach for America (TFA) candidates and other young teachers. According to Forbes,

Kaiser’s foundation…put up $1 million a year to help bring 150 young teachers to Tulsa from the Teach for America program. To house them Kaiser’s foundation has invested [$2 million] more in turning Tulsa’s decrepit warehouse district into a hip neighborhood of subsidized loft apartments (and $12 million to beautify Tulsa’s stretch of the Arkansas River).
Will all this be enough to attract the teachers that Oklahoma’s students deserve? It seems quite unlikely and perhaps even counterproductive. NPQ has reported before on the issue of nonprofit wage ghettos and some of the same principles seem to apply here. Asking people to do more for less, assuming that their wish to serve will overcome their need to earn a reasonable income, is neglectful of both workers and constituents and contributes directly to inequity. Charities can slightly alleviate some of the most direct and immediate pain caused by lack of dedicated public resources, but as NPQ has pointed out before, these basic services should be paid for by taxes and managed by government in a way that confers job security and longevity.

But Oklahoma has a $900 million budget deficit, and according to Sean Murphy of the Associated Press, “Over the past three years, state funding for public schools has declined by more than $48 million, even as student enrollment increased by nearly 8,000.” Teacher salaries are entirely dependent upon state allocations.

The Oklahoma Policy Institute claimed that “The Tulsa World reported that polls show that 86 percent of Oklahomans support [State Superintendent of Schools Joy] Hofmeister’s plan for teacher pay raises,” but last fall, voters rejected a one percent tax increase that would have raised teacher salaries by $5,000. NPQ has commented before on Oklahoma’s “wildly idiosyncratic” tax code, which exempts the National Rifle Association from sales tax but not the American Civil Liberties Union. Oklahoma’s state officials denied a proposed tax hike as recently as last week, making it less likely the situation will resolve itself this school year.

Efforts like the one by the Kaiser Foundation to build an attractive city deserve applause for attempting a longer-term solution to the problem, but attracting TFA candidates is not enough. Oklahoma’s students are still waiting for their teachers.—Erin Rubin

I guess I didn't take it that he hates Oklahoma. Sure the title of his other kind of sounds that way, but honestly I think he's right on pretty much all of his points.

Just sucks to read.

Something has to be done.

We are mortgaging out future and the full effects of this -- even if corrected soon -- will be felt for a long time.

We need to take a very, very hard work at corporate welfare and economic development subsidies because clearly the trickle-down approach is a massive failure.

The problem is that all the people in power are for these things and the press just serves as PR for these schemes without researching or reporting the outcomes.

It's the direct byproduct of "big business is always right, not matter hat" mentality and blind cheerleading by the press. There is no watch dog, no analysis, no check and balance on these policies.

I really hate the way these articles (and others) vilify the state alternative certification program. I remember when the alternative certificate program was kicked in or at least enhanced several years ago; it was an effort to get more people with real-world working experience into the classrooms to supplant curricula and instructors who were likely unable to keep up with rapid changes in technology, or perhaps had zero actual working experience in the field. I remember, at the time, it was considered novel and inventive. Now, it's being made to sound as if we're dragging random drunks from the bus station, slapping them with a cert, and putting them in the classroom. I have a friend with a PhD and he took the alt route for, IIRC, two different state certs, and he's *more* than qualified to instruct despite not having the formal teaching sheepskin....

Guy has good points, but almost all of these things have been covered on this forum or elsewhere (NewsOK, Tulsa World, etc.) I'd say it's a good thing that this is in a large publication and that it'll wake some people up to the reality of the situation, but I don't think most average Oklahomans are exactly unaware.

Even the most staunch conservatives I know recognize the fact that the legislature and corporate entities have utterly failed the state. That's not even including the abomination that is the education situation.

While I agree there are problemsin this state, when someone makes the QuikTrip comparison I know they don't know what they are talking about. Entry level at QT in OK is part time at $10 an hour. Full time night clerk, the next level is $11 an hour. Neither shadows teacher pay. They promise overtime for the full time positions (and bonuses) but I know from a friend that you can't plan on either. Once you get to manager the money is better. But it's hard work. This isn't new nor rare anywhere though. Managers in restaurant and retail tend to make 40-70k a year, and as much as 100k in some instances. This is nation wide.

I do agree that we under value teachers in this country. But making this comparison as an Oklahoma problem irks me.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

While I agree there are problemsin this state, when someone makes the QuikTrip comparison I know they don't know what they are talking about. Entry level at QT in OK is part time at $10 an hour. Full time night clerk, the next level is $11 an hour. Neither shadows teacher pay. They promise overtime for the full time positions (and bonuses) but I know from a friend that you can't plan on either. Once you get to manager the money is better. But it's hard work. This isn't new nor rare anywhere though. Managers in restaurant and retail tend to make 40-70k a year, and as much as 100k in some instances. This is nation wide.

I do agree that we under value teachers in this country. But making this comparison as an Oklahoma problem irks me.

Starting teacher’s salary Oklahoma: $31,600
Starting rate for night assistant at QT: $42,400 - No degree required.

https://www.quiktrip.com/Jobs/Stores/Wages/Tulsa
http://sde.ok.gov/sde/sites/ok.gov.sde/files/documents/files/17-18%20State%20Minimum%20Salary%20Schedule_0.pdf

The 10 states where teachers get paid the most:
1. Alaska: $77,843
2. New York: $76,593
3. Connecticut: $75,867
4. California: $72,050
5. Massachusetts: $71,587
6. New Jersey: $70,700
7. Rhode Island: $67,533
8. Maryland: $65,257
9. Illinois: $65,153
10. Virginia: $63,493

The 10 states where teachers get paid the least:
1. Mississippi: $42,043
2. Oklahoma: $42,647
3. South Dakota: $43,200
4. North Carolina: $43,587
5. Arizona: $43,800
6. West Virginia: $45,477
7. Arkansas: $47,053
8. Idaho: $47,063
9. Kansas: $47,127
10. Louisiana: $48,587

http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/teacherbeat/2017/02/which_states_pay_teachers_the_.html

Arkansas pays teachers on average $5k more than we do! And they are still in the bottom 10. And it’s Arkansas!

We suck. This has to change or this state will start to die, quickly.

Not quite true. Earning *potential* they claim is 42k. Look right on thier site for Tulsa jobs you linked. They pay $11 an hour for night clerk. Even if you get all your overtime (they don't) you're looking at 27k a year. The bonus is a maybe thing. It's a fallacy.

Not quite true. Earning *potential* they claim is 42k. Look right on thier site for Tulsa jobs you linked. They pay $11 an hour for night clerk. Even if you get all your overtime (they don't) you're looking at 27k a year. The bonus is a maybe thing. It's a fallacy.

I know people that work there and they love it. And QT has long been rated as one of the best employers in the nation. If they lied about pay on the website, would that really be the case?

Anyway, this isn't really about QT, this is about our funding of schools and the state in general. The legislature and governor have failed us completely.

And what are we as Oklahoman's doing to change this: nothing. Come the next election, it will be status quo. There is an income tax increase by a tiny %, and it will probably be voted down. It is sad that we talk of change, yet, knowing how inept our leadership is, when given an opportunity to apply a band-aid while we gut the system, Oklahoman's turn their backs on educators across the state.

Norman, Oklahoma and Denton, Texas are very comparable cities. In Norman, a starting teacher makes $34,000 and in Denton a starting teacher makes $52,000. Add in that the facilities and resources are dramatically better and Oklahoma is starting to resemble a third world country... and it's by choice. I work in north Texas and I meet teachers who left Oklahoma all the time. The state is absolutely in a state of failure.

BG918 - How is Oklahoma *not* a failed state, given the massive education cuts (highest percentage of any state in the nation, I believe), failure to make a budget (and resorting to illegal tactics (OK Supreme Court saw through them) to try to come up with one), cutting all kinds of social services, infrastructure in poor condition, , massive prison population (in unsafe and out-of-date prisons), most percentage of African-American men in prison in the nation (I believe that was the stat I read), most percentage of women imprisoned, etc.?

I really hate the way these articles (and others) vilify the state alternative certification program. I remember when the alternative certificate program was kicked in or at least enhanced several years ago; it was an effort to get more people with real-world working experience into the classrooms to supplant curricula and instructors who were likely unable to keep up with rapid changes in technology, or perhaps had zero actual working experience in the field. I remember, at the time, it was considered novel and inventive. Now, it's being made to sound as if we're dragging random drunks from the bus station, slapping them with a cert, and putting them in the classroom. I have a friend with a PhD and he took the alt route for, IIRC, two different state certs, and he's *more* than qualified to instruct despite not having the formal teaching sheepskin....

First, the real problem is the ease of getting into the field, particularly in cases of emergency certification. College preparation programs do incredible work to help prepare teachers and, to my knowledge, all education professors have a minimum of three years of K-12 experience, and many faculty members have many more years than that. OU and UCO have really well respected education programs (I am sure there are others, but I can't speak to them). Alternative certification programs can work well for some individuals, but they must have stringent requirements and they should not be a primary way into the field.. thus the term "alternative." "Real world" experience is valuable but absolutely not enough to be a high quality educator for most people. Just knowing about something doesn't make you a good teacher (I'm sure your friend is a good teacher; I know great alternatively certified teachers too). However,Texas has far higher standards for classroom teachers too. If Oklahoma wants to make it easy for anyone to get into the classroom and pay crap then expect to get a profession that struggles.

Oklahoma is a national embarrassment because of all the things detailed in the article. And this is coming from someone who loves the state to my core. Relative to this board, if there isn't change quick then OKC will suffer greatly too.

Another one-sided article about how Oklahoma is a failed state

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/29/oklahoma-education-system-four-day-school-weeks-poor

Also an accurate article. Honest question, which facts or stories do you disagree with from the article? Oklahoma is currently failing in ways that I'm not sure I've seen before. Maybe I'm just more familiar with Oklahoma, but the length of institutional failures is mindnumbing.

Also an accurate article. Honest question, which facts or stories do you disagree with from the article? Oklahoma is currently failing in ways that I'm not sure I've seen before. Maybe I'm just more familiar with Oklahoma, but the length of institutional failures is mindnumbing.

I don't disagree with the facts presented in the article and understand Oklahoma state govt is a mess that will take years to fix. I just think it was overly one sided blaming Republicans. A interesting take would be to compare and contrast the policies of Oklahoma and Kansas with that of Texas, another Republican controlled state that isn't a failure, or compare Oklahoma as a failed red state to Illinois as a failed blue state and why they are different and/or similar.

Another one-sided article about how Oklahoma is a failed state

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/29/oklahoma-education-system-four-day-school-weeks-poor
Not totally one sided. From article:

"Of course, many would not recognize their state in this description. One of the most respected bloggers in Tulsa, Michael Bates, said the whole idea of Oklahoma as a failing state was “hysterical and overwrought”.

After all, downtown Tulsa and Oklahoma City are thriving. The cities have been rated by Kiplinger among the “best cities in America to start a business”. Tulsa has rolling hills, parks and delicious barbecue: Tulsa People enumerates the city’s private schools. Affordable housing prices are the envy of the nation and suburban school districts boast gleaming new facilities. And yes, some conservatives think the four-day week is good for “traditional” families, allowing for more time with the kids. For affluent families, the extra day can be spent on college prep or sports."

Yeah, Tulsa and especially OKC are doing well in spite of the rest of the state totally crumbling. Problem is, the rest of the state will start to bring the cities down with it. It's already holding them back as it is.

I laugh about this - this is a reach to try to drum up more negativity. So yes, the article is not all correct. I agree with some of it though



Wildfires burn out of control: cuts to state forestry services mean that out-of-state firefighting crews must be called in.

Boggles my mind how so many people are in denial when reality is presented

Maybe they're not in denial. Maybe smaller funded government is what the majority of Oklahomans actually want, because they feel there has been too much wasteful spending. Sooner Poll: http://soonerpoll.com/oklahomans-soundly-still-believe-government-is-wasting-taxpayer-monies/

Others would say it's not a spending problem, rather a funding problem from too many tax incentives. Whatever, it's a severe symptom of a poorly governed state. Instead, of making things more easier for oil companies than in any other state, the state should have figured out how to cut or eliminate the sales tax on food. It would help everybody, especially low income people not eligible for food stamps.

I know people that work there and they love it. And QT has long been rated as one of the best employers in the nation. If they lied about pay on the website, would that really be the case?

Anyway, this isn't really about QT, this is about our funding of schools and the state in general. The legislature and governor have failed us completely.

But they are more than likely working 60 hours a week to make the 42K.

Agree with total failure of government.

BG918 - How is Oklahoma *not* a failed state, given the massive education cuts (highest percentage of any state in the nation, I believe), failure to make a budget (and resorting to illegal tactics (OK Supreme Court saw through them) to try to come up with one), cutting all kinds of social services, infrastructure in poor condition, , massive prison population (in unsafe and out-of-date prisons), most percentage of African-American men in prison in the nation (I believe that was the stat I read), most percentage of women imprisoned, etc.?

Oklahoma is not all that bad of a state as long as you don't need state help from welfare, or are a state employee, such as a teacher. Poor people who aren't making it should move to a better state where people have a warmer heart for the needy, since so many conservative Oklahoma legislators don't support more welfare spending. Those legislators seem to feel resuming cutting income taxes will help the state more than anything else. To quote my state senator, Tom Dugger: "We need to ensure Oklahoma's economy has stabilized before additional revenue reductions are enacted." So, sooner or later, having more money in our pockets to spend after tax cuts may noticeably help the economy. Anyway, he won't face reelection until 2020.

Yeah, Tulsa and especially OKC are doing well in spite of the rest of the state totally crumbling. Problem is, the rest of the state will start to bring the cities down with it. It's already holding them back as it is.

Bills enacted from the state capitol that ban cities from governing themselves in certain ways don't help.

Whatever points this guy is trying to make, however valid at a micro or macro level, seem to me to be underpinned by an intense hatred for Oklahoma in general - note the title of the other book to his credit, and apparently he was raised here?

Yeah, we get it, you hate Oklahoma, and yeah, we get it, we've got problems. We know that. Any solutions?

Damn, most people who criticize Oklahoma DON'T HATE Oklahoma. What an asinine statement to obscure the truth. The State is poorly run, yes by Republicans!. If people in the State do not take responsibility for holding those elected to create policy that enhances or improves the lives of the citizenry. The State is falling further behind in so many areas. Give the damn democrates, or independent or whatever a shot at governing, but being red for red sake is just stupid. Cutting all these taxes HAS NOT created demand or overwhelming high paying jobs, only near record state budget deficits. Alot of the people who complain are native born, transplanted Oklahomans who care about their home State and are saddened that it has fallen so far.

When you get down to it, the problem in this state is that most lawmakers pander to the most extreme right-wing voters and the policies advocated by the far-right simply aren't working. 23rd and Lincoln is almost a competition in terms of who can out right-wing the others. People know it isn't working otherwise the legislature wouldn't be so unpopular. However, most voters in Oklahoma are evangelical Christians and they will always vote for the candidate that "out-Jesuses" the others and comes down hardest against abortion and LGBT rights. The feel that their religion demands they vote for these people who promote "Christian values" even if its against their own interests.

Oklahoma will struggle until that changes.

Damn, most people who criticize Oklahoma DON'T HATE Oklahoma. What an asinine statement to obscure the truth.

It's a good thing I didn't even come close to saying it, then. I was *specifically* referring to the *one* individual who wrote *that* hit piece on Oklahoma. His own perspective came through halfway through the article and were evidenced in the title of his other hit piece. And I'm making the point that a column so full of vitriol *obscures* the very points the author is trying to make.

I have lived in Oklahoma nearly all my life, and love it here. And I'll be the first to tell you we've got problems, and that our current slate of elected leaders has failed us. There's no question about it. But, for me, the tenor of that article was unmistakable. And I don't back off what I said in the slightest. He offered not one single solution. Not one.

I am 100% behind bringing our wellhead tax to the regional average. I am 100% behind looking into excessive or inappropriate incentives to corporations - and I say that as a Reagan-era supply sider!!! And this is where our legislature has abjectly failed. That's my $0.02 in this - I know we've got problems, but I'm willing to toss out ideas to remedy them, rather than refuse to strike a match and then curse the darkness.

Yeah, Tulsa and especially OKC are doing well in spite of the rest of the state totally crumbling. Problem is, the rest of the state will start to bring the cities down with it. It's already holding them back as it is.

Is there really any evidence that this is true? If anything, weakness and lack of opportunity in the rural areas will cause people to migrate to the cities. I would argue that we're already seeing this phenomenon in places like Yukon and Mustang, which have seen fairly explosive growth.

And I don't necessarily know if Oklahoma is unique in this regard. When you look around the country, most of the growth and power has been shifting towards metro areas for the last 20-30 years.

It is the job of the elected leaders to do just that, lead. They are elected and paid to make this a better state for the citizens that live here. It is not the job of reporters to lead. Reporters have no obligation to solve problems, but investigative reporters have a duty and obligation to report on failures and successes. It is the job of a reporter to expose how much money is wasted on defending lawsuits that are the result of screwball legislation, it is the job of the elected officials to not pass these crazy laws that are unconstitutional.

It is the job of the elected leaders to do just that, lead. They are elected and paid to make this a better state for the citizens that live here. It is not the job of reporters to lead. Reporters have no obligation to solve problems, but investigative reporters have a duty and obligation to report on failures and successes. It is the job of a reporter to expose how much money is wasted on defending lawsuits that are the result of screwball legislation, it is the job of the elected officials to not pass these crazy laws that are unconstitutional.

Especially a reporter for British newspaper.

I've been fantasizing about taking out a billboard near the airport so everyone entering town can see it. It would say "Relocate to Oklahoma, where your children have no guarantee of a quality education." or "Relocate to Oklahoma, where the teachers we have left are only the ones who lack the ability and/or initiative to leave." Or something similar.

Feel like that is what it will take to get the buy-in of the Chamber powers that be.

I know people that work there and they love it. And QT has long been rated as one of the best employers in the nation. If they lied about pay on the website, would that really be the case?

Anyway, this isn't really about QT, this is about our funding of schools and the state in general. The legislature and governor have failed us completely.


I wish teacher's unions weren't seen as Democrat organizations in the state. It creates an us vs them situation and hurts the children's welfare.

Red states are increasingly suspicious of education, especially higher education.

And it shows in how those states fund their educational systems. Of course, Oklahoma is just about the worst of the worst in that regard.

I'm with Dave, here. We have problems, but this pretty much tells you everything you need to know about the article and its author:


Russell Cobb...is at work on a book provisionally titled You Dumb Okie: Race, Class, and Lies in Flyover Country

Some context is nice. I haven't found what the book is about, but by his own accounts, he is a dumb Okie.

https://twitter.com/scissortail74?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Ese rp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

However, most voters in Oklahoma are evangelical Christians and they will always vote for the candidate that "out-Jesuses" the others and comes down hardest against abortion and LGBT rights. The feel that their religion demands they vote for these people who promote "Christian values" even if its against their own interests.

Oklahoma will struggle until that changes.

Bchris, maybe you can not be such a Christfobe? I don't see how it helps. It drives the people you need to improve the situation away. Grow up and get past your
prejudices if you want to help the situation

A true fact is that a significant portion of voters will vote for the anti-abortion candidate above all else.

A true fact is that a significant portion of voters will vote for the anti-abortion candidate above all else.

Would you vote for someone who you believed would murder children?

What the state needs is someone anti abortion (electable) and pro education. Driving a wedge into the dominant culture over abortion kills the chances of helping the students and teachers in our public schools. If you want change in Oklahoma you need the pro-life vote.

I think it's a safe wager the damage this state does to living children affects a much greater number than abortion ever would. It's more important that the child is born to people, who then turn around and refuse to find their healthcare, education, dietary needs, psychological and social wellbeing, and any other number of issues. As the policy level we are a state that wants to force women to carry each pregnancy to term, and then deny them any help once the child is on the other side of her labia.

We would save many more lives, and prevent more abortions, if we actually provided a functional safety net for people. Make it easier to adopt, including for gay adoptive parents, to provide homes for children whose parents can't provide for them. Make pregnant women feel like they have options and support. And that's where we fal short, and we keep on electing pro-birth anti-poor-children politicians to put us further in the hole.

Education is just one of those areas that indirectly affects our children. The cut to 4-day weeks affects more than just education, it increases hunger, it makes it harder for parents to work, it increases poverty. We need to care about Oklahomans once they are born as much as we care about them when unborn.

Bchris, maybe you can not be such a Christfobe? I don't see how it helps. It drives the people you need to improve the situation away. Grow up and get past your
prejudices if you want to help the situation

I'm sorry but it's the truth and there is nothing "Christophobic" about what I said. Most Oklahomans vote for the anti-abortion and anti-gay candidate above all else. It's their sincere conviction that their eternal salvation is at stake if they do not. It's a genius strategy for Republicans because its guaranteed re-election no matter what they do as their base is bound by their faith to vote for them. I do wish more people would realize that they are being taken advantage of and that if they really wanted to end abortion, hoping that Republicans stay in power long enough to stack the court system is a horrible way to go about doing it.


I think it's a safe wager the damage this state does to living children affects a much greater number than abortion ever would. It's more important that the child is born to people, who then turn around and refuse to find their healthcare, education, dietary needs, psychological and social wellbeing, and any other number of issues. As the policy level we are a state that wants to force women to carry each pregnancy to term, and then deny them any help once the child is on the other side of her labia.

I agree with this. Abortion isn't really a state issue anyways being that any attempt to ban it will be struck down as unconstitutional. State politicians focusing on it is simply a distraction. It's a way to score points in those "Values Voter Guides" passed out in Baptist churches around election season.

"Relocate to Oklahoma, where the teachers we have left are only the ones who lack the ability and/or initiative to leave."

Yeah, I'd leave that one out. I know some incredible educators who have stayed in the state with the means and opportunities to leave. Maybe don't push that group out.

There are plenty of teachers who would never betray their students the way the state betrayed the teachers. They are doing what they can, often spending their meager paycheck on these kids. They are here because they want to be here, not because they can't leave.

Edit: I try to phrase my post generally and try not to make it sound like I'm attacking specific people. So if I come across that way I apologize.

Would you vote for someone who you believed would murder children?

What the state needs is someone anti abortion (electable) and pro education. Driving a wedge into the dominant culture over abortion kills the chances of helping the students and teachers in our public schools. If you want change in Oklahoma you need the pro-life vote.

Without getting into abortion politics, we have those running -- Scott Inman for starters.

There are a few elite rich folks running this state and they are doing just fine. When they are running the show and they are doing just fine why change?

There are certainly things wrong in OK but this guy's essay is so overswtated he loses credibility. Yes, teacher pay is atrocious and blame lies with the legislature. The media in OK needs to undertake a coordinated effort to talk to each representative who voted against the recent attempt to raise pay, ask pointed questions and name names. The hillbillies who are voting down pay increases have simply got to be replaced. As far as many of the other points he raises, its no different than anywhere else. Indian tribes gave money in OK, corporations give money other places. Unfortunately, OK doesnt have a huge contingent of corporate offices or billionaires who give in this way. The schools in CO put out a list of suppplies they need and parents fill them. its normal and understood.

Do we hate Oklahoma when the sooner football team has a losing season and the head coach is criticized? Everyone wants our football teams in the top ten, so pointing out that the schools are in the bottom ten does not mean someone hates Oklahoma, we as a state, are letting ourselves down, and we could do a lot better.

Except he went from item to item, many of which are true in many states you might think are progressive and not just OK. I'm with some of the others on here. I'd be curious of his motives considering who and where he is. There seems to be just a little too much hating coming. However, if change can make things better there, then I am all for it.

I laugh about this - this is a reach to try to drum up more negativity. So yes, the article is not all correct. I agree with some of it though
Bingo. I've lived the last 40 years in Oklahoma. As long as I can remember it is this negativity "we are the worst in everything" crap by people here. We are always the worst in education, have the highest teen pregnancy rate, highest incarceration rate, worst drug problem, and each person's home town in the worst for drugs in the world, highest this, worst that, and on and on. Maybe I'm just simple, but, myself and most everyone I know like it here and aren't planning on leaving. It is home. There must be some good things here. But heaven forbid we promote those things.

And what are we as Oklahoman's doing to change this: nothing. Come the next election, it will be status quo. There is an income tax increase by a tiny %, and it will probably be voted down. It is sad that we talk of change, yet, knowing how inept our leadership is, when given an opportunity to apply a band-aid while we gut the system, Oklahoman's turn their backs on educators across the state.

Doing nothing? No wonder. The Oklahoma State Legislature and politics in general have such bad reputations, I bet a lot of good, decent people don't want anything to do with running for office in 2018. To me, having good candidates to choose from is just as important as voting.

Norman, Oklahoma and Denton, Texas are very comparable cities. In Norman, a starting teacher makes $34,000 and in Denton a starting teacher makes $52,000. Add in that the facilities and resources are dramatically better and Oklahoma is starting to resemble a third world country... and it's by choice. I work in north Texas and I meet teachers who left Oklahoma all the time. The state is absolutely in a state of failure.

But the cost of living index is higher in Denton, 93.5 vs 86.5 for Norman.

But the cost of living index is higher in Denton, 93.5 vs 86.5 for Norman.

If you take Denton's index rate as a percentage of Norman, and then divide $52k by that number (1.0809%) then $52k becomes $48k. So instead of being 53% higher in Texas, it's 41%.

That's ROUGH.

Would you vote for someone who you believed would murder children?

What the state needs is someone anti abortion (electable) and pro education. Driving a wedge into the dominant culture over abortion kills the chances of helping the students and teachers in our public schools. If you want change in Oklahoma you need the pro-life vote.

Absolutely not so in every district. Rep. Cory Williams is pro choice, opposed the Ten Commandments erected at the state capitol, and pro education, yet won his last two terms by nobody filing to oppose him for reelection. He had won his first two elections against Republican opposition.

I have no problem with voting for good pro-choice candidates, because I have no control over women who want to get abortions, whether it's legal or banned. I have no idea what pro life or pro choice candidates would do when tables are turned and they are actually faced with unwanted pregnancies. It's actually none of my business. Further more, what the government tries to ban, it loses control over it. Do you want abortion steered out of control by banning it?

But the cost of living index is higher in Denton, 93.5 vs 86.5 for Norman.

That doesn't cover the difference. You can live in Denton for the same price as Norman pretty easily.

I really am disappointed with Gov. Fallin's leadership. Looking forward to starting new in 2018.

I really am disappointed with Gov. Fallin's leadership. Looking forward to starting new in 2018.

Agree, but will Lt Gov Lamb will be much better? Assuming he wins over Cornett and Edmondson.

It's apparently a good place to live and work and raise a family while constantly coming on here and bitching and moaning about what a horrible, backwards, <gasp> conservative, unwalkable, redneck, parking garage mecca place it is to live, work and raise a family. Some day I hope everyone realizes OKC is light-years ahead of where it was 30 years ago.