Parking garage with commercial space proposed in booming west downtown (http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=404-Parking-garage-with-commercial-space-proposed-in-booming-west-downtown)

A large surface parking lot directly south of the Civic Center will become a 5-story parking structure with retail and office space on the ground floor, according to plans filed with the city.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/601c.jpg


The property at 601 W. Main is owned by the Oklahoma City Police Association, along with several surface lots in the immediate area.

The surface parking has long been seen as a formidable gap between the central business district and the suddenly flourishing Film Row and west downtown area.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/601a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/601b.jpg


The Jones Assembly just opened last week at Sheridan and Fred Jones to huge crowds and the prestigious 21c hotel group was the first to blaze the trail on Main Street all the way to Classen, an area that until recently had been run-down and largely abandoned.

Now, West Village is under full construction on all sides of the 21c and Jones and in about a year will bring 345 apartments, plus retail and restaurant space. Stonecloud Brewery just across Classen at 1st Street opened last week as well in the beautifully renovated Sunshine Laundry building.

This latest project will help bridge the core of downtown with this hot district and will also provide needed parking for another impressive restoration, the Main Street Arcade which sits directly west.

Four levels of parking will sit on top of the ground-floor retail and commercial space at street level.

The ADG design and the application by TBL Parking LLC will be considered by the Downtown Design Review Committee.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/601d.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/601e.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/601f.jpg

A worthy addition to our thriving Parking Garage District.

:rolleyes:

Actually, it looks okay. It's better than surface parking, and if it helps other places in the area develop, then I guess it's a good thing. Still, it's disheartening that the first of those empty surface lots to be developed just becomes more parking.

At least it doesn't look like a typical parking garage and will have office and retail space. I never realized how HUGE that parking area to the southwest of that lot is. So much development potential for that parking area. The fact of the matter is that we'll probably have to deal with a few more parking garages being built if we want to get rid of all the surface parking (which I want gone). But hopefully we can get developers in here who will build combination parking and office buildings. A few stories of parking topped by a number of stories of office or living space.

The 60s called, they want their Brutalist architecture back.

That's a seriously ugly building.

That looks like a pretty good addition to me. As said above,the huge surface lot really needs a mid-rise / parking garage to help fill in.

Sure, it's not the prettiest building - but it's a lot prettier than a parking lot.

This is a start at infill but the area shown in blue below represent a huge gap that is going to inhibit any real connection to the CBD and west downtown.

Most of it is owned by the police or city.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/601ab.jpg

At least it has commercial space at street level. That's great and should be a requirement for all parking garages downtown. Street level retail would go a long way towards making a lot of these big, boring structures more palatable.

This new project would be a lot like the Arts District Garage in that in would have commercial space facing both Main and Colcord.

The Arts garage was able to quickly fill what amounted to a considerable amount of space.

While it is frustrating seeing more garages (especially since I feel like these are bad investments with self-driving cars coming more quickly than most think), at least there is retail/office space all the way around the first floor. If some of the other garages like Santa Fe had that it would make such a huge difference.

Build it and they will come. Sound familiar ?

I think it will look pretty cool with the aluminum fins.

I am thankful that the design isn't just a concrete box.

I keep thinking of my brother-in-law's comment about OKC having more parking garages than skyscrapers. Sigh. It is better than surface parking, but cars seem like they're soon going to be outmoded in urban areas. I guess they can always turn them into housing some day, ala the Waffle Champion building.

Parking is like crack. You don't need it, but once you get a little, you can't live without it and you can never get enough!

I'm glad almost the entire ground level is what appears to be very usable retail space instead of it being token retail space.

I'm glad almost the entire ground level is what appears to be very usable retail space instead of it being token retail space.

Yeah that is very nice. Hopefully this garage will also spur development (hopefully parkingless bc of new garage) on all the surrounding surface lots. Was this garage built to give confidence to developers considering building in the area?

Parking is like crack. You don't need it, but once you get a little, you can't live without it and you can never get enough!strawman argument. Hopefully you weren't being serious.

strawman argument. Hopefully you weren't being serious.

I think what Ross is saying, is that the long rumored idea of an actual Parking Garage District (PGD for short) may finally start to take off. We may be able to finally get that valuable space, all the way from Hudson, west on Main to Classen, turned into invaluable Parking Garages. If we could just line Main St. with these garages, we would only have to wait a year or so before we start developing the PGD2 just south of the Boulevard, on the west frontage of the new park! I love our city's growth and potential for more Parking Garages!

I hope someone comes up with a logo.

I hope someone comes up with a logo.

T-shirts coming (hopefully anyway, it's been in my mind for a while now) soon ;)

Soon we will need to build a parking garage just to accommodate people who want to come & see the parking garage district.

Yeah that is very nice. Hopefully this garage will also spur development (hopefully parkingless bc of new garage) on all the surrounding surface lots. Was this garage built to give confidence to developers considering building in the area?

Steve has a story that directly suggests this. Per the story, Urban Renewal has plans for RFPs or something of that effect for the empty lots on Main. This garage is the supposed first "piece" to those lots being developed.

BEHOLD, THE PARAKING GARAGE DISTRICT! I am so excited!
14007

I think what Ross is saying, is that the long rumored idea of an actual Parking Garage District (PGD for short) may finally start to take off. We may be able to finally get that valuable space, all the way from Hudson, west on Main to Classen, turned into invaluable Parking Garages. If we could just line Main St. with these garages, we would only have to wait a year or so before we start developing the PGD2 just south of the Boulevard, on the west frontage of the new park! I love our city's growth and potential for more Parking Garages!
Doesn't matter it's a strawman argument. This parking garage district is just silly. OKC isnt special with this other than he fact it lacks the amount of garages it needs. Other cities already have these.

This is a good development and needed. OKC needs more rail but car based infrastructure will need continued investment as well.

Doesn't matter it's a strawman argument. This parking garage district is just silly. OKC isnt special with this other than he fact it lacks the amount of garages it needs. Other cities already have these.

This is a good development and needed. OKC needs more rail but car based infrastructure will need continued investment as well.

Do you think the PGD is a joke? This is big league.

Do you think the PGD is a joke? This is big league.
Game changer.

Game changer.

Now you're coming around. Steve has been hyping this up for years. My excitement knows NO bounds for the PGD

Now you're coming around. Steve has been hyping this up for years. My excitement knows NO bounds for the PGD
Based on your profile pic, it seems you have realized this is what will make KC and Dallas jealous. This is the stuff right here. The real McCoy. ;)

Soon we will need to build a parking garage just to accommodate people who want to come & see the parking garage district.

This just seriously cracked me up

The only thing that i don't like about this, is that not all sides will have the architectural facade. Im sure that after it will get built someone will be commissioned to do a mural on one of the sides, but i still feel like they should have designed all the sides. There is this beaut that is in Dallas! Would be amazing to see something similar if they are gonna build more (also there are no bare concrete sides)

14008

Please make a satirical twitter and start pumping up all the various PGD projects in our near future. We need this.

Once autonomous cars take off and these parking garages turn into pointless white elephants OKC will be in great position to create the world's first Parking Garage Museum. If that doesn't pay off the PGD will be an interesting project for archaeologists to excavate a thousand years from now.

If this garage is constructed as in the renderings...it resembles a very famous building....

http://www.usafa.af.mil/Portals/21/images/Leadership/CadetChapel/CadetChapel/Chapel_06.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/601c.jpg

At least that is what I thought of when I saw the renderings. I've always been awed by the chapel.

AFA. Chapel

After a considerable amount of opposition from surrounding property owners, the case was continued to the September DDRC meeting. Blair Humphreys and Richard McKown also spoke in opposition of this garage. The main complaints were its huge scale when compared to existing structures in the area and it's function with respect to the goals of this particular part of downtown. McKown argued that the garage would further encourage a drive to your office, work, then leave mentality instead of one that would encourage 18 hour use of the park as part of a living breathing residential/commercial urban district. In fact, he mentioned that he, along with property owners of the surrounding surface parking lots, have been talking/planning mixed use residential developments along main street and Colcord Dr. and that this garage would likely end their plans. Interesting stuff indeed. Despite the difference in opinions, both sides were civil and respectful.

After a considerable amount of opposition from surrounding property owners, the case was continued to the September DDRC meeting. Blair Humphreys and Richard McKown also spoke in opposition of this garage. The main complaints were its huge scale when compared to existing structures in the area and it's function with respect to the goals of this particular part of downtown. McKown argued that the garage would further encourage a drive to your office, work, then leave mentality instead of one that would encourage 18 hour use of the park as part of a living breathing residential/commercial urban district. In fact, he mentioned that he, along with property owners of the surrounding surface parking lots, have been talking/planning mixed use residential developments along main street and Colcord Dr. and that this garage would likely end their plans. Interesting stuff indeed. Despite the difference in opinions, both sides were civil and respectful.

Did they meet at Lee Elementary?

Below, you see this proposed garage in pink. The properties in yellow are owned by the Box family.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/601wmain081717.jpg


The Box's had an attorney speak on their behalf who in turn introduced Richard McKown and Blair Humphreys.

McKown said that he had been working with the Box's for a while with plans to develop the large property on the south side of Main Street. He made the point that property and all the lots on that side of the street are unusually deep and thus lend themselves to a mixed-use project which could have parking in the middle then wrapped with residential and commercial on all sides.

He seemed to imply that this parking garage was the wrong type of development for this important corridor which should bridge the CBD to the 21c and all the great things happening in west downtown.

McKown also said they were waiting for the right time to go forward with what would be a $25-$30 million mixed used, residential project on that Main Street lot. I imagine it would be similar to Level, but a smaller scale.

Blair Humphreys just spoke in general terms about good urban development design principles.

A number of people mentioned that this building height was out of proportion with the area, especially given it's small footprint.

Ultimately, as mentioned, the item was continued.

Just talks with property owners or is there some actual plans of a mixed use development? Not that I agree with this garage but Im a little leery of what McKown is saying. Plus, you cant look past the fact that this would compete with the Box's parking lot when it come to Civic Center events.

There is no hard plan for a development on that lot.

McKown said they've been talking about things in general terms for quite a while and have been waiting for the 'right time'.

Seems like they should do what a lot of other developments seem to do. File a building permit, put up a fence, and then do nothing for two years. That would strengthen their case. Of course, that means no parking revenue for Mr Box as well.

I honestly think they are being a little dramatic. This is a mid-block parking garage, which is much better than a corner-lot parking garage. Once the surrounding area fills in this really won't be all that noticeable.

I suspect that their primary concern is to minimize any obstruction of views and direct access to the Civic Center and Bicentennial Park. A 5 story building here would serve as both a physical and psychological barrier between Bicentennial Park and potential residential located on the south side of Main. If you limit the development of this lot to shorter buildings with smaller footprints, residents to the south could still maintain some direct line-of-sight to the park area, which would probably encourage more use of the park. That's my theory, for what it's worth.

This just made me realize something. The best use of this lot would probably be to extend Dewey further north to Colcord. Maybe that's the real reason for wanting to kill this development? Restoring this portion of the street grid would probably have a significant impact on future development in this area.

I honestly think they are being a little dramatic. This is a mid-block parking garage, which is much better than a corner-lot parking garage. Once the surrounding area fills in this really won't be all that noticeable.

That's like saying a gun shot wound to the arm is better than one to the heart. It's just a prime spot, being park front and main street facing in our civic center block. You'd think we could be a little more creative with some of our most visible and public space.

That's like saying a gun shot wound to the arm is better than one to the heart. It's just a prime spot, being park front and main street facing in our civic center block. You'd think we could be a little more creative with some of our most visible and public space.

Personally, I don't think of this as much of a park. And the 4 floor garage is not that tall as you can see in the renderings, it's less tall than the Civic Center itself.
The real reason for objection is competition, and some folks don't want it.

Personally, I don't think of this as much of a park. What is it then?

The real reason for objection is competition, and some folks don't want it. Even if this is true, hiding parking is still > a garage on this prime piece of land. Is a parking garage really highest and best use here?? I agree with the folks who oppose this despite their motives (though I'd argue McKown and Humphreys had good intentions when arguing there case).

What is it then?
Even if this is true, hiding parking is still > a garage on this prime piece of land. Is a parking garage really highest and best use here?? I agree with the folks who oppose this despite their motives (though I'd argue McKown and Humphreys had good intentions when arguing there case).

It's the entryway to the Civic Center. Nothing more to do there than just sit. The real park is a couple of blocks Southeast...lol

http://newsok.com/neighbors-opposed-to-six-story-garage-near-civic-center/article/5564616

Oh, the irony...

Attorneys David and Dennis Box continue to lead the campaign against this project. They own the property immediately to the east.

At the same time, David was sitting in the community meeting about the Classen Circle Braum's basically telling people his client is going to do what they want. And they make their living off helping private clients get their projects passed by the various City committees.


One more bit of conflict here: The City built that massive Main Street Parking Garage to the east and it in fact faces that very nice and recently renovated park in front of City Hall.

Pete, what are the rules for bicycling in the garage to 'hill train' on Sunday mornings?

People skate and bike in [most of] downtown garages every evening. I see it often. I think if you just go during any non-peak hours (post 6pm and no local evening events) you would be fine.

To counter-argue, the Box Building is the one that seems out of context to me. It's set back farther from the sidewalk than other nearby buildings, and is one of a few of one-story buildings in the immediate area.

To counter-argue, the Box Building is the one that seems out of context to me. It's set back farther from the sidewalk than other nearby buildings, and is one of a few of one-story buildings in the immediate area.

I agree, but I still think parking could be done more tastefully..

Don't know why two articles in the Oklahoman on this subject only present the arguments against this project, while the application itself included lots of context and research in support of the scale; and in fact this seems to fit the Dowtown Development Framework.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/601wmain091917a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/601wmain091917b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/601wmain091917c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/601wmain091917d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/601wmain091917e.jpg

They presented all that stuff and more at the meeting, but to me it seemed like they were grasping at straws when it came to incorporating design elements from the district. For example, they were comparing precast concrete to lime stone, compared the giant metal fins on the outside of the garage to the small metal details on city hall and the civic center, and said that the fins gave vertical delineation instead of horizontal lines when, to me, the bend in the fins creates more of a horizontal look. That being said, the garage does technically seem to conform to code... but that doesn't mean it's what's best for that spot. Yes, according to the books, it ads "density" by being another building in the area, but from the perspective of use, it actually decreases density by pushing things that people do farther away from each other. It technically conforms to scale in terms of number of floors and the building that was here before would have been the same size. But there is a huuge difference between the feel of a building this size that is for people, with windows, and one that is for cars and made of precast concrete. I understand that this garage would serve the police thus allowing other lots closer to 21c to be developed, but to me, considering that this property fronts both the civic center complex (aka the civic heart of the city) and main street, this is just a boneheded place to put a massive garage; wasted potential.

Makes me a little sad that David Box is Braum's attorney. Usually I'm in support of his clients (at least the two or three times I've seen him at DDRC) but I guess he's no different than most people who need to feed their mouths, he's just a (talented) dude for hire.

^

Pretty much all those same design arguments were made for the City's Main Street Garage. That it pulled from City Hall's art deco finishes, etc.

I don't think this is about the design elements but just about people not wanting a parking garage at this spot. But very hard to make that argument when the City did almost the exact same thing on a much larger scale just to the east.

http://newsok.com/neighbors-opposed-to-six-story-garage-near-civic-center/article/5564616

Oh, the irony...

Attorneys David and Dennis Box continue to lead the campaign against this project. They own the property immediately to the east.

At the same time, David was sitting in the community meeting about the Classen Circle Braum's basically telling people his client is going to do what they want. And they make their living off helping private clients get their projects passed by the various City committees.

Came here to post exactly this. I nearly LOL'ed after reading both of Steve's stories in this morning's paper and seeing the name Box in these contexts.

Speaking of Steve's articles (apologies if this one has already been posted): http://newsok.com/okc-central-parking-garage-plan-raises-some-hackles/article/5564619

Steve is arguing for the original idea of building a garage where the old municipal courts building currently stands; the City wants to turn it into a secured surface parking lot instead. Maybe I'm not seeing the bigger picture here, but I have to agree with Steve in this instance - that site would be ideal for this project instead of the current proposed location, and serve multiple uses that the proposed garage may have a more difficult time doing.

DDRC unanimously rejected this project.

Seems like it may be dead. The land owners can appeal but not likely such a strong ruling would be overturned.

Could also go to court and claim the decision was unfair, as all guidelines allow for this use and height.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-panel-rejects-plans-for-a-six-story-downtown-parking-garage/article/5565037

Wow... Pretty surprising result.

This decision raises several issues.

The committee is supposed to be objective and try to follow overarching guidelines.

But what clearly came into play here were the sentiments and opinions of lots of different people who spoke against it. In the broader context, why should that matter?

Conversely, these same people couldn't / wouldn't speak out about the ridiculous parking garages proposed by Hines / Devon and other projects backed by the powerful.

Isn't that why we have independent committees in the first place? Certainly, the public has some input but usually their comments are brushed off. But because many of those opposing here are powerful themselves, this development is viewed differently?

I'm not a big fan of this project but if the guidelines allow for it, then either change those guidelines to reflect the greater good or apply them fairly.

Shades of the Rand Elliot influence in Auto Alley.